smur, I think that he's not being entirely truthful with you about being over your A, but that is not by design or maliciousness. He's just very, very hurt, and is putting up a guard.

I would bet that he is not looking for revenge or to hurt you, but to validate himself.

I bet deep down he is really battling self esteem issues. He probably feels like you are in the catbird's seat, because you got to step out of the M and still come back. If you find your H not worthy again, you can trade up, so to speak. In essence, you can get on with your life.

Perhaps, he needs to know he would be able to continue to live, if you left him. Would he be able to find another woman, or would he be alone and unwanted the rest of his life? If you don't find him sexy, manly, and worthwhile, is there any woman out there who would?

Or, did you have intimacy problems before the A? Did you reject him or turn him down for sex? How has your intimate connection been since the A?

Perhaps he is afraid that he's not man enough for you. He may be obsessed with comparing himself to the OM, or that you are. I know for me, this was a big problem in my own head. It really skewed how I saw our recovery, and it tainted my efforts. Some of us are simply less secure in our own feelings of manhood.

If this is something your H has on his mind, he may not feel comfortable sharing that with you. Even I knew how childish and stupid my fears were, but I couldn't shake them, nor could I openly share them with my WW. Mostly because I felt that if I did, I would be giving her absolute reason to toss me aside for a "real man".

Perhaps the best thing is not harp or nag him into seeing things "the right way". That would be even more humiliating. Perhaps the best thing is to reassure him that sex with one you don't love doesn't compare to making love in a marriage, that your H is better than the OM, and that you totally enjoy being with him. Show him that he is all you need, and you will be all he needs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong> eric..

it doesn't matter what his motivation is..

it is irrelevent..
and is an issue or line that should not be power-struggled or given in to...

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree. The motivation does not matter. There is no excuse, ever, for someone to step outside the marriage.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: MichaelinDallas ]</small>

Its&#12288;a shame about the time zone&#12288;difference and I couldn`t reply sooner.&#12288;
Weaver - thanks very much for your comments - I am living in Japan - do you know is it possible to get marriage coaching from MB or Penny by email or chat?? I think there is nothing like that, especially in English, here.

Uphill - I think he is not intentionally deceiving me when he says that he is over this ONS - I think he really believes it. I`m not sure whether I believe it, though. I have been doing all of those things you suggested for the past 4 months, since Dday. I am now starting to wonder whether that was even the best thing to do, because although he feels much better, I have the impression that he kind of takes it for granted that I will continue to fulfil his ENs and love him no matter what.

I think its true that he might have had thoughts of a ONS or something like that for a long time, but never acted on them, and now that I have done it, he sees it as a kind of opportunity (in a strange way). I have told him that it would hurt me and damage our relationship, just at this time when we are trying to repair it. Even if I got over it, eventually, it would be a struggle - and of course he would of course be hurt by that too.

We had a very long talk today again about boundaries and ENs. He is annoyed with me because he feels that I am placing restrictions on him and what he sees as his friendships with others that he needs right now to feel better. I understand that he needs friends for himself now, especially because we are living OS and don`t know many people. The problem is that, while he is also talking about wanting unspecified but `no strings attached` sex with someone else, any female friend that he wants to go out and spend time with somehow seems like a threat to me.

I am worried that this situation could end with me asking him to choose between me and our R and this `open relationship` lifestyle. Even if he chose me, he could resent being forced into the choice, rather than making it himself, as well as resenting my ONS - with whatever consequences for our M that that might have.

<small>[ October 09, 2004, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: smur ]</small>

Yes, when I checked out the "saveyourmarriagecentral" website I think I saw where you could email Penny.

Check it out anyway.

www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com/

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by smur:
I am worried that this situation could end with me asking him to choose between me and our R and this `open relationship` lifestyle. Even if he chose me, he could resent being forced into the choice, rather than making it himself, as well as resenting my ONS - with whatever consequences for our M that that might have. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Enforcing boundaries has nothing to do with forcing the other person to chose his/her behavior. You can let him know that he is free to do anything he likes, including having sex with other women, but he can't expect you to endorse it and not be affected by it. You may even forgive him for doing it but that your love for him may eventually end and then you may no longer want to be married to him. This is not an ultimatum but a statement of fact.

Hello all,

H just returned from 5 days of holiday with a woman who he has known for a couple of months and who I've never met. He told me before leaving that it was just friendship, but he has also told me in the past that he was attracted to her. This on top of our previous discussions in which he talked about wanting an open relationship have left me with serious doubts about whether it was/is just friendship.

I haven't yet discussed anything with him yet, but I am very hurt by his behaviour. I am planning to tell him this. What's more, as TMCM said, my feelings for him have changed. Whereas previously, as a FWS I was very motivated to try whatever it took to repair our R, and have spent the last 4-5 months actively doing all of the things BHs on here have suggested, now I am just tired. I am starting to think about separation. I am trying to be clear about what it would take to make me think he is really committed to our R - I think he it would be that he takes my boundaries seriously, that he goes to MC with me and actively participates. I am not really in any kind of classic Plan A/B type situation, but I suppose I can take elements of those. Any ideas?

This may sound like it is coming out of left field..but I have not replied to this thread up 'til now as a way of not giving voice to my gut instinct on this one..and now that you have given more info..my feeling is the same. So what the heck..I may be wrong..won't be the first time.

I strongly suspect that your H has always had the desire to experiment..fool around..phrase the concept to your liking..but the integrity and historical exclusivity of your marriage held him in check [cough, mostly anyway didn't keep him from dipping his toes in did it?]but now...after the initial grief and anger..he sees an oportunity to switch gears and would like to take it. He thinks that now..since it was you and not he that changed the dynamic of the relationship..you should be willing to comply.

So, you opened up a big can of worms by having a ONS.

I think you should absolutely tell you H that you will leave if he makes this choice..it is not a threat if you mean it..it is fair warning.

Noodle

<small>[ October 27, 2004, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

Thanks Noodle,

No, its not exactly coming out of left field - I think its at least partly true.

He might have a lot of reasons for wanting to have an "open" relationship, like a general feeling that its hard for him to trust a partner in an exclusive relationship, due to his own issues, childhood, etc, and therefore he is generally much more secure if he has several women to fall back on. Now this feeling is probably stronger than ever with him because of my ONS.

Be that as it may, I have no interest in a relationship like that. I'm 31 and I want to have a family in the next 10 years of my life, and I don't think its right or fair to have children in a relationship that is very unstable, which is more than likely how it would be if he was intending to have Rs with other women. I think I have given him every reason to be able to trust me again, and I am willing to carry on doing that for as long as it takes.

Noodle- I think I do have to make it clearer to him that I can't tolerate OW, but I still don't think I can say that I will leave him if he has an A. But I can say that I might lose all my love for him. Its started to happen already, even if the woman he was staying with was just a friend.