Jets:

I hope your WW is doing something to address this. I think that she has to take an active role in addressing this, along with you.

My story was very similar, but we did not have a happy ending. I tried like h*ll to change, to address the pre-A issues, but she did not. We went without any sort of intimacy for a year and a half. I tried to address it, then I tried backing off - to give WW space. I tried to be patient. I went on ADs for a while, which reduced my libido. I tried to bring it up.

Eventually, I gave up. I couldn't take a celibate marriage, and I left. Now, I'm headed for DV.

Your WW has to know this is a two way street. You must attempt to meet her, but she is obliged to meet you, too.

If your frustration mounts, I understand. Many here have taken me to task, rightfully so, but I could not continue. Some might be stronger than me. You might well be. But, if your WW doesn't understand your POV in this, you can't carry the burden entirely.

Thanks all for the reponses.
I Have taken a good share of the blame for my actions and the way i treated her. I also feel d/t our lack of time with each other and over involvement in everything else in our lives ex. church orchestra,kids activities, work,cont. ed. meeting. This led to us having somewhat of a disconnect and making the affair a option for her. She wasn't happy, she admits now that she should have made this more clear to me and been more agressive in trying to fix it. But she states she tried and i really didn't listen. She probably right about this. I was at that time to prideful or stubborn or ignorant to admit or see that our marriage had some problems.
I have change and continuing to change my ways and try to be a better husband to her and not go into my old habits and ways with her. I told her I don't want to be that person again. She says she glad and she see me trying. She also a little bitter and resentful now for the way i treated her back then though.
I believe and this based on her feedback that she wants to have SF and that intimacy back with me again, but it is going to take her some time but she is not able to give me a time frame, 3mo.,6mo. a year. She wants to find that connectivity with me again and she doesn't want to get into the old rut to do it just to do it ( probably to shut me up). I have told her as well as counselor that i want our intimacy to mean more than just the mechanics and i know i was wrong in the way i treated that with her and took advantage of her. WW states she see's intimacy happening, wants it to happen ,but cannot give me a time frame.
We have agreed for now to cool it with the relationship talk, constance reassurance for me,and to not be so depressed one day and up the next i am on wellbutin, i think it has helped a little but will admit there are somedays better than other. She sees all this these things and it reflects off of her and if anything it is pushing her a way. Counselor made a point yesterday , Asked me what kind of people do you like to be around, I said happy, upbeat easy going people. He said well if u wheren't around those people what would i do, I stated probably get away from them. I guess he was trying to say that my moods and issues are starting to bring her down. Don't push her away with this.
So concentrating on being upbeat and positive and no LB's. Hopefully WW will find that comfort level with me again and we can again have the intimacy but better than it was.
Jets
jets

Jets,

Keep in mind that many women do not appreciate their H attention, appreciation, or admiration if it is ONLY to get them in the sack. I guess it would be something akin to a friend coming over to visit you ONLY when he/she needed money [you'd feel pretty used wouldn't you?]. You might want to consider start giving your W some gentle, sweet, long lasting kisses that don't lead to sex. If you do this, don't be surprised if one day she becomes the agressor and tears your clothes apart like Mrs TMCM does to her man, moi. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I believe and this based on her feedback that she wants to have SF and that intimacy back with me again, but it is going to take her some time but she is not able to give me a time frame, 3mo.,6mo. a year. She wants to find that connectivity with me again and she doesn't want to get into the old rut to do it just to do it ( probably to shut me up). I have told her as well as counselor that i want our intimacy to mean more than just the mechanics and i know i was wrong in the way i treated that with her and took advantage of her. WW states she see's intimacy happening, wants it to happen ,but cannot give me a time frame.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jets, this is where we are at. Although I haven't completely shut down. Guess I'm a tad bit more horny than your W. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm extremely sexual, but my H has not made me feel safe, sex has not been a good part of our M. He took from me in his time of need, and I have resented him for this.

I'm trying desperately to forgive him, (yes, I as the FWW, trying to forgive him) I want great intimacy with my H, I want him to feel desired.

I in turn need to feel it is a safe spot for me. I no longer will stand for being pressured, or have it taken from me. I want it to be consensual and beautiful, not always beautiful, maybe a little rough and kinky thrown in.

I'm learning to trust his new behavior, as he is learning to trust in me. My lack of interest makes him so insecure. I try very hard to give him what he wants, but I do stand firm on not being harassed and pressured no longer.

We are trying to find a balance, and it sounds your W is also. I recommend the book Men are from Mars, Woman are from Venus in the Bedroom. It has a chapter on giving yourself to your S as a gift. This would be a good one for you and your W to read. You too Krusht.

KY

Jets,
This is my first post. I have lurked here for a year. I am the BS.

I think that the root of your wife's problem is the "anger" that she is carrying around. This is at the root of many problems people have. Even though my relation ship with my WW is now better than ever I have been somewhat down/depressed for the past year. I seemed to have ALOT of anger. I womdered where this was coming from. Prior to my WW's affair I was pretty happy-go-lucky.

It became obvious that the root of this anger was my wife's affair AND the way she treated me for the first 10 years of our relationship. She suffers from depression and she would fly off the handle on a daily basis. We never had 2 consecutive days without a blowup. She has been on anti-depressents for 4 years now and she is a changed woman.

I am reading a book by Brian Tracy at the moment. In it he talks about the anger that we all carry within us; anger toward our parents for the way we were raised, anger for wrongs done to us by others in our lifetime, anger with ourselves. This anger stays buried within us and manifests itself in many negative ways, basically handicapping ourselves. We have to release this anger in order to get past it. The way to do this is to FORGIVE the person.

I think your wife still harbours much anger towards you for how she was treated prior to her affair. In order for her to get past it she HAS to forgive YOU for EVERYTHING! If and when she can do this, I think your problem will be solved.

One of the best ways for her to do this is to write a letter to you. In it she should list everything she can think of that she angry about towards you. She then writes that she forgives you for EVERYTHING. She seals it, puts a stamp on it and drops it in the mailbox. Suddenly a huge weight is lifted from her shoulders, the anger is gone! This WORKS.

The letter is not necessary if she can do it mentally ... forgive you and move forward.

If she reallky wants to get past this and make some real progress in your relationship, she has to do this. I know, for I have tried this and it makes a world of differnce.

Good luck.
------------------------
Dated: 3 years
Married: 11 years
2 sons, 5 and 7
BH 44
WW 40
DD 9/21/03
WW EA/PA June02 - Dec02
Marriage better than ever!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Keep in mind that many women do not appreciate their H attention, appreciation, or admiration if it is ONLY to get them in the sack. I guess it would be something akin to a friend coming over to visit you ONLY when he/she needed money [you'd feel pretty used wouldn't you?]. You might want to consider start giving your W some gentle, sweet, long lasting kisses that don't lead to sex. If you do this, don't be surprised if one day she becomes the agressor and tears your clothes apart like Mrs TMCM does to her man, moi.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You big stud TMCM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am reading a book by Brian Tracy at the moment. In it he talks about the anger that we all carry within us; anger toward our parents for the way we were raised, anger for wrongs done to us by others in our lifetime, anger with ourselves. This anger stays buried within us and manifests itself in many negative ways, basically handicapping ourselves. We have to release this anger in order to get past it. The way to do this is to FORGIVE the person.

I think your wife still harbours much anger towards you for how she was treated prior to her affair. In order for her to get past it she HAS to forgive YOU for EVERYTHING! If and when she can do this, I think your problem will be solved.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">UpNDown, great first post. This is exactly why I asked Jets if he had acknowledged his part in the pre-a state of their M.

I was holding this anger in form our Pre-A state. For 9 years my H treated me very bad, I had never addressed any of his behavior before DDay, I was carrying it all with me.

I have been so angry with him since, I have wrote the letter, it really helped, but what has finally allowed me to forgive him, is a very sincere apology from him. Which I needed very much. I needed to know, he felt bad, and that he knew he did me wrong. Finally after 9 years of the same behavior he was sorry, never before had he been.

BTW, this all took place last night, and I feel great this morning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> No anger, just love.

Coffeeman,Kyellow,
Thanks for the replies.
Coffeeman i am not trying to give her that impression that i am sucking up to her to get her into the sack, at least i hope it is not commng across that way to her. I do genuinely like doing and showing her the small things in affection. I like cuddling, small kisses, and hugs. It amazes me as well as her that i like and long for these things now. She always states that u never used to be this way. She likes it but not quite used to it.
Kyellow, i think you have been pretty accurate with your assessment. WW has a lot of similarity with what u are saying. Hopefully she will find that comfort zone with me again and not feel like she is being pressure to do it. I admit and appologized to her that i did pressure her particularly over last year and then would whine or give her silent treatment to manipulate her into giving in. This was wrong and i know that wish i would have been bright enough to see it then. She not much into reading, I was lucky to get her to read a few chapters of SAA. I am not going to pressure her to read this would be a LB in the fact that it would be me direspecting her in the sense that i would be making her do something that she doesn't want to because i feel it would make her better. So i don't push it.
I guess time,patient, and continuseous work to show her i am a better husband is what it is going to have to take. Am i off with this assessment?
jets

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess time,patient, and continuseous work to show her i am a better husband is what it is going to have to take. Am i off with this assessment?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right on. My H did a beautiful plan A. I needed time to heal. I needed to see this new him has longevity. I needed to see sincerity and depth to his new actions and emotions.

Jets you can do this. Like us, your heads are in the right place, you know what you want, you are both striving for the same goal, just allow your hearts to catch up. (ncw's words)

{{{jets}}}

My H is also in need for so much affection. He craves it like I crave chocolate. It is new for us, but we are adapting.

Hey all,
Will suggest this to WW but i don't know if she will be receptive, again don't want to end up in a 4 hour talk session about our relationship,but will let her know that it has been suggested and that it might make her feel better.
When she mails this letter out she mails it to me and i am to read it and make no comments...correct?
jets

Albany,

My FWH is also on Lexapro. However, it has definetely not dampened his sex drive. We are enjoying SF more than ever before. As that was one of our problems before the A. My belief is it was one of the main reasons he was drawn into the A.

But I did want you to know he does have one side effect like yours does - it does sometimes take a long time. And that was not an issue before he started taking the Lexapro.

ng

She doesn't even have to show you. I didn't even show my ST the first letter, yup there was two, I forgot somethings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It is what my therapist called a theraputic letter. Just write it, I think it would help for her to give it to you though, then you will understand better why she is feeling so down.

Best of luck Jets.

KY

Kyellow,
ST???
Just wanted to make sure i have this straight. She should write this letter and basically talk about what has made her angry about me pre-A and to end it by stating that she has forgiven me.
Nothing else should be added as far as where she wants our relationship to go or any of that?
Once written she can either show me or not but to try and forgive me after writing it?
Thanks,
Jets

ST, is my H, Shivering Timbers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I did not say, somebody else did to add at the bottom I forgive you.

If it were that easy, we wouldn't be having this discussion, she would just say she forgives you and you two would be in the bedroom, or the laundry, the pool table, whatever your pleasure.

We get angry because we feel somebody has done us wrong. She is unable to forgive you, because you haven't atequately expressed sorrow and remorse for your behavior. (I'm going with this because that is where I was)

She needs to get it all out, she needs to address it all. You need to apologize for it all, one thing at a time, if that is what it takes.

She needs to know you know you hurt her and did her wrong. She needs to know you are sorry for your behavior. She needs to know it won't be happening again. She will learn this with your actions and time.

KY

Thanks Kyellow,
I will give this suggestion to her, don't know if she will be receptive but it can't hurt to try. Hopefully if anything it will make her feel a little better with this issue.
Thanks for listening.
jets

My pleasure Sir. I will be lurking to see your updates. Plan A and patience. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KY

Don't underestimate kyellow4's advice for I have seen firsthand the power of apologizing to others for wrongs [or perceived wrongs] that I committed against them. The change in how they treated me afterwards was and still is amazing.

Quote:
________________________________________________
Will suggest this to WW but i don't know if she will be receptive, again don't want to end up in a 4 hour talk session about our relationship,but will let her know that it has been suggested and that it might make her feel better.
When she mails this letter out she mails it to me and i am to read it and make no comments...correct?
__________________________________________________

Hi Jets,

You getting it and reading it is irrelevent in this excercise. Simply the act of writing it out and mailing it is all that is required. It is symbolic of letting the anger GO!

If this feels silly to her she can try doing it mentally. She can get into a relaxed state and imagine all the wrongs and hurts that caused the anger. She can put each instance in an imaginary balloon, give her forgiveness then release the balloons in her mind and imagine them drifting away into the ether. They are gone, get it?
I've used this one too and it is helpful.

If your wife is sincere that her goal is a return to SF, that this is something she really wants then there is no harm in trying this excersise.

As others have said, I agree it is also important that you apologise for your part in your matters that led to this.

Cheers,

UpnDown
------------------------
Dated: 3 years
Married: 11 years
2 sons, 5 and 7
BH 44
WW 40
DD 9/21/03
WW EA/PA June02 - Dec02
Marriage better than ever!

Upanddown thanks for the response
Will try this again will stress that i don't think she has anything to lose. I believe she is committed to getting SF back. She is just tired of talking circles about it and all other things that have happen to us.
Our talk session unfortunately have been ending up to be 3-4 hours session and our poor kids sitting out in the next room watching TV by themselves. They know something up and pretty much come into our room to find out what up.
This has been going on pretty consistantly since DD. We are both tired of talking about it and going in circles. we just want to move on and not feel like we are going to have to have a chat session few times a week. I think this is why counselor has asked us to stop relationship talks and save it for him during counseling. Concentrate on fun things.
So with that in mind i will briefly mention my thoughts and suggestion that u all have given me and that will be it. She can do it or not, her choosing. I am not stressing out over it.
Jets