WU,

You stated and asked </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... but to sum it up, my past repentance has been false, my current repentance is more true than before, but I still see blaming, I take full responsibility for my choices and actions, but there is that little nagging voice that says "If your H would have done what you asked of him, this A wouldn't have happened, he's to blame".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2scared answered this, but I will repeat the A was ALL YOUR FAULT. The sooner you face that the better. Here is why it is better. Once you do that, THEN you can sit down with your H and talk about the marriage and NOT the A. While they overlapped and the A damaged the marriage terribly they are in fact two separate relationships and two separate entities.

So you need to take the heat for the A. It will help you, and your H. But, the next topic is the marriage and HERE you both need to take credit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> for your marriage.

Finally, if you take full responsibility for the A there will be fewer "gray" areas and less bickering about who did what.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My H has said to me he knows he is part to blame and is sorry. Where do I draw the line, quit blaming and move on?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Blaming will do you know good. It is that simple. What you two need to decide is to LEARN from this and that requires candid discussions about how each of you felt, what hurt each of you, what were and are LB's to each of you, and your vision for a future marriage. Notice, nowhere in my list was blame mentioned. It makes no difference, you two need to get to the facts and start addressing them. This is very simple really, but it is NOT easy. It takes time, practice, and a lot of patience. Your H has been hurt by your deceit and lies. You found another man because you wanted to. The both of you need to step back a second and really think about this.

Do you want to ascribe blame or do you want to be happy? It is sort of an either or situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There is something in my heart I can't describe when I think of letting him of the hook or I guess it's really just forgiving him, I cringe at the thought. Why? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Letting him off the hook???? How does having your W lie to you, cheat on you, and then tell you your are not loved equate to getting off the hook.

I realize you are still in the fog, and I realize you will or are going through withdrawal, but eventually you will see the damage you have done, and then I think the term "off the hook" will look as silly to you as it does to me. Give this time and you will see your H has and is in plenty of pain. Don't worry about that, if nothing else you accomplished that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I re-read one of your posts to me, you stated that meeting H's needs seems like a chore, more work than enjoyment in the beginning. But still, can't quite identify what I'm feeling..any thoughts? Anyone.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think what you are feeling is confusion. You know the right thing to do, you know what you have enjoyed, yet you know that doing the right thing is NOT going to be enjoyable for awhile. It is hard to generate any enthusiasm isn't it WU?

I will offer you my lecture <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> on love. What you are being asked to do is LOVE your H as you vowed to do. It is not the same as "feeling in love". You never vowed to "feel in love" with your H, you vowed to love him as in the verb to love. In many people this gets confused, and coming out of an affair it is surely confusing, so perhaps that is part of this as well.

Hang in there as NC moves along and you come out of withdrawal and the fog, thing will be clearer. You are doing well. And you are asking good questions. Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

2scared,

I think I'm finally understanding about my choice to have the A, but both equally responsible for the condition of the marriage. It seems so simple to read what you wrote, but very hard to think about it clearly.

I am working on my heart and attitude, asking God to change my heart of stone to a heart of love, and also to remove what I thought was love for the OM and replace it with a love for God, then my H. I can't do this without God, I've made a pretty good mess of things on my own.

I do own the books Surviving an Affair, His Needs, Her Needs and Torn Assunder. I have read them all atleast twice, but I think I am in a better place to now to re-read them.

As for OM, he knows something is going on. I don't talk about the future with him, our conversations are forced, he is getting more scared and demanding and I am backing further away. I asked God to put a wedge between us and He is. I know my heart and thoughts towards OM are changing. I guess I'm coming out of the fog, but I struggle with wanting to talk to him, yet dreading it. I miss the dream or fantasy, but he is no longer meeting my needs. I know I am going through withdrawal, but not real sure what I am missing now. Does that make sense? After a few months of just phone conversation, things start getting clearer on what reality really is.

Have I talked to him about how I feel, No. I don't say much of anything. He goes on and on about loving and adoring me and missing me, and what I want to say is leave me alone..I know I will be able to say it soon, but I'm also concerned about he being able to contact me at work, begging me to come to him. So, when my job ends in 3 weeks, he will have no way to contact me. I"m having a very hard time with the double life, it weighs heavily on me.

JL,

Glad to hear from you, even if it's with a 2x4 in hand <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !

It's hard to seperate the affair from the marriage and all the other troubles of life. It all seems to run together, but I do see what you are saying. Yes, I know, the A was totally my fault.

I see your point on "Letting him off the hook". I guess what I really meant was forgiving my self for what I've done, forgiving both of us for what we've done to the marriage and opening my heart up to him.

You are correct in stating I feel confused. Love is a decision to do what is good, right and proper for that person you love. If I look at the A from that angle, I don't love the OM. I don't love my H, I don't love my kids, I don't love myself. Pretty hard to swallow. I know in my head what is right, I just let my flesh overrule what is right.

I so much appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice. You, they, have been right where I am and can speak blunt and to the point, real life stuff. I need that.

Please continue with your thoughts. I read what you say to Myrta and it makes sense..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Waking Up:
<strong> Sadfww-
Hope you are feeling better soon!
I was just wanting to talk. I see you are a former WW. Lots of questions, don' know which to ask first. Is you story posted somewhere, it may answer some of them?
Thanks </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ask away!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Here's my story- cut and pasted from my first post. I added the link too as I think some of my replies to questions asked on that post give some more background.
The really bad part first:

I am a FWW. I had 2 A's over 8 years ago. Each lasted 1 year. There are reasons, but no excuses.
D-day occurred 3 years after the end of the 2nd A when I could not handle the guilt and couldn't bear to continue to lie
to my DH through omission. At that time I was 38 weeks pregnant with our second child. (Our first child was born
a year and 1/2 after the 2nd A ended, and I had lapsed into clinical depression and severe anxiety.- now controlled through medication and therapy.)
We had NC with either person by the time D-day arrived, which I think (hope) made it easier for my DH. He was angry, upset and obviously bitterly hurt and confused.
However, he said he was not interested in D and that as the A's had happened years before and we had built our lives since then, that he could move on
with me. I was so incredibly grateful that he didn't kick me out as I richly deserved. I love him- and never for one moment had contemplated a D while
in the midst of either A. (Why did I do what I did? As I said- reasons such as immaturity, a very young marriage, lack of experience with other men (we had
started dating when I was 16 etc etc etc…obviously no excuses, but perhaps the info might help you understand me a little better.)

It is now 5+ years post D-day…and I still feel like I haven't gotten my DH back. We have had another child now.. He is a fabulous father to our 3 children and a good husband. But - he is emotionally distant from me. I can understand this. I really can. But, I don't want to live like this forever. I have asked (BEGGED) that he seek IC - or MC with me- or both. (I feel that my own IC was so beneficial to me.) He absolutely REFUSES. I have asked him to read the basic concepts and articles on this site and to work with me to build the marriage I know we could have. He REFUSES- says over-analyzing makes things worse and not better.

We have always both been strong-willed, opinionated and passionate people. I miss him. I miss being close to him, and I miss having any sense of peace about our relationship. I feel like he is just waiting to explode. Another piece of info that may- or may not- help in answering me. I am the major income producer for our family while my DH stays home with our children.

What can I do to repair and rebuild my marriage? Please help.

Thanks.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=031726

Hi Sad,

Thanks for sharing your story with me.

My story differs from yours in the fact that my H wants the marriage to work and my heart has been resistant, however I am working on it.

How are things with you now? The date on the post I read from you was August.

JL is insightful isn't he!

One main question I had was when my H wants sex and I don't want it right then or at all, he says that by me saying no or pushing him away makes him think I am still having sex with OM. I am not, OM is not even in the area. But the question is, am I to be a doormat?? Just do it to appease him when my heart isn't in it? The wall definately goes up when I do it because we have fought about it and I'm tired of fighting.

I welcome the men's replies also! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks

2scared and JL,

Had a strange dream last night.

I live in a small town in Oregon. I travel usually once a month to a bigger town to buy groceries as I can by twice as much for the same money spent where I live..anyways, in my dream I was planning another trip and the OM's wife offered to go with me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I remember looking at her and she said it was so we could ask questions, basically clear the air. I was surprised, but said ok, ask away. In the dream, I don't recall any questions ask, nor any dialog,but I remember thinking she is a pleasant woman, not the woman she used to be. Now wonder OM doesn't want to be mean to her.

When I woke up I pondered the dream, it made me uncomfortable, but also sad. I felt God was working on her too and as I was thinking that, I got a picture of actually talking to her and asking her to forgive me!! This has never happened before, I've never seen her as anything but cruel. I'm not just going off of what OM said about her, but what I knew of her years before OM and I were together. Anyway, in contemplating this, the scripture came to mind that basically says: If you have ought against your brother, go and ask his forgiveness. I realize it's her choice to forgive or not, but her forgiveness doesn't release me, it's my heart toward her that releases me. Needless to say, this blew me away. I silently said to the Lord, maybe one day, not today. The timing is not right.

Any thoughts?

WU,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's hard to seperate the affair from the marriage and all the other troubles of life. It all seems to run together, but I do see what you are saying. Yes, I know, the A was totally my fault.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it is hard because they are intertwined via the lies, the emotions, and the mixed loyalties. I would suggest that you stop for a moment and reflect on just the A. In the long run how has it made you feel? You see it would NOT have been an A if you were not married, but you are. So how does it make you feel? Next, reflect on the decision to have this A, it was your decision, how did you make it? I would bet you don’t recall it as clearly as such an earth shaking decision should be recalled. Recall the process, the thinking, the feelings, and I would bet your H had NO say in any of it, and was not really part of your thinking. Hence it is yours. Accept it, carve it out, and face it, end it, and work on your marriage.

Now think about your marriage. Do you remember when you decided to get married by saying YES? Do you remember how you felt as you planned the wedding? Do you recall the birth of your children? There were many firsts in your life because of the marriage and there are more to come. The marriage needs to be rebuilt, but that process can lead to some amazing changes and insights.

It will be easier, if you will acknowledge what is obvious, it was your decision to make and you made it. Your H may have had or still does have a lot of questions about the A, the OM, and your feelings. But, those informational questions boil down to him trying to understand where HE stands with you. Where you commitment is and what can he trust. It is about him healing from the deep wounds you have given him.

Then you two need to talk about the marriage, what was missing, what needs to be changed, how each of you will help the other person with the goal of BOTH of you being happy. The OM did some things that your H needs to know about, so that he can learn how to please you. You did things for the OM you probably did not do for your H, use what you have learned. But, mostly address the issues of the MARRIAGE when rebuilding the marriage.

If you can when you talk to your H, try to turn the discussion so that it is either about the A or it is about your marriage. Once he gets the idea that while connected they are separate, he will find it easier to organize the confusion in his mind and focus on the marriage or the consequences of the affair in a clearer mind. It will help both of you to forgive each other, and more importantly yourself.

Please think about this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see your point on "Letting him off the hook". I guess what I really meant was forgiving my self for what I've done, forgiving both of us for what we've done to the marriage and opening my heart up to him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah! Forgiveness. It is the gift you give yourself. There have been long and very useful discussions on this site over the years on this topic and it is very very complicated. But, most agree that forgiveness is a gift and it helps the giver a lot.

As you learn to forgive your H, you will actually be removing the need to react to past hurts, and that will ease your mind and clear your thinking. He will have to do the same. WU, I know you are not ready yet, but it is coming but prepare yourself to lead your H and your marriage back to health. He has opened the door and invited you to lead him, by his willingness to stay in the marriage. Step through it and lead, I truly believe you will be rewarded.

I want to quote to you my all time favorite quote </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In order to master a subject first you must organize, and then you must simplify. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this quote is particularly germane to your situation, hence my discussion of separating the A from the marriage issues. They are connected but to the extent you can separate some of them, it is easier to handle them, sort of the divide and conquer thing.

WU, you asked </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One main question I had was when my H wants sex and I don't want it right then or at all, he says that by me saying no or pushing him away makes him think I am still having sex with OM. I am not, OM is not even in the area. But the question is, am I to be a doormat?? Just do it to appease him when my heart isn't in it? The wall definately goes up when I do it because we have fought about it and I'm tired of fighting. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is probably thinking exactly what he is telling you. But, I have a suggestion for you to consider. SF is an emotional need which typically shows up more strongly in men than women. But that is why Harley lists it as a need, an emotional need. It is not a need such as air or food. There is a physical need as well, but the reality is it is an emotional one. I would strongly recommend that you start to look at SF as just that, something your H needs emotionally.

If you can do this, then the next part is soooo easy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> If you would prefer to set the time table for sex, then you initiate. As your H gains confidence that he can be rejected because you are tired or not wanting to, but that you will come to him later and meet his needs and perhaps yours, he will NOT view it as connected to OM. I don’t think there is anything that hurts as much as being rejected by someone you love for sex. I may be wrong, but rejection hurts UNLESS it is with cause. You are tired or you don’t feel like it are causes IF there are times you do feel like it and you are not tired and then YOU initiate.

Do you see that you can control this very easily and also begin to change the images in your H’s head. Proactive action, as in Loving someone, allows a better balance, a healthier interaction, and the development of love between people. You hold a lot of power in your marriage, and you have not used it correctly. You withdrew rather than engage. Had you actively engaged your H in the matter of SF, you would be able to have more control AND not hurt his feelings.

Does this make sense? I do hope something I have said will help.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just Learning:

WU, you asked </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One main question I had was when my H wants sex and I don't want it right then or at all, he says that by me saying no or pushing him away makes him think I am still having sex with OM. I am not, OM is not even in the area. But the question is, am I to be a doormat?? Just do it to appease him when my heart isn't in it? The wall definately goes up when I do it because we have fought about it and I'm tired of fighting. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is probably thinking exactly what he is telling you. But, I have a suggestion for you to consider. SF is an emotional need which typically shows up more strongly in men than women. But that is why Harley lists it as a need, an emotional need. It is not a need such as air or food. There is a physical need as well, but the reality is it is an emotional one. I would strongly recommend that you start to look at SF as just that, something your H needs emotionally.

If you can do this, then the next part is soooo easy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> If you would prefer to set the time table for sex, then you initiate. As your H gains confidence that he can be rejected because you are tired or not wanting to, but that you will come to him later and meet his needs and perhaps yours, he will NOT view it as connected to OM. I don’t think there is anything that hurts as much as being rejected by someone you love for sex. I may be wrong, but rejection hurts UNLESS it is with cause. You are tired or you don’t feel like it are causes IF there are times you do feel like it and you are not tired and then YOU initiate.


Does this make sense? I do hope something I have said will help.


JL [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was just coming to answer this question but see JL beat me to it! In fact JL and another poster opened my eyes to this very point- sex as an emotional need. I never thought of it this way before even though it is listed as an EN here on this site- duh! And I can see that from a BS point of view that a refusal to fulfill this EN is particular is extremely hurtful- since their thoughts are that we had no trouble meeting someone else's need in that regard. I know there has been debate back and forth as to whether you should have sex if you don't want to. From my perspective, changing MY view of my husbands needs - to see that it is an emotional rather then a purely physical- makes it much easier to be receptive- and interested - even at those times I'm not necessarily in the mood. Does this make any sense at all? I'm rambling.

JL,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I would suggest that you stop for a moment and reflect on just the A. In the long run how has it made you feel? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ashamed, dirty, I acted like the world instead of a Christian.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
reflect on the decision to have this A, it was your decision, how did you make it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was a deliberate decision after thinking, dwelling and entertaining thoughts of OM and our friendship, I wanted him. I remember the day I decided I would have him. I gave up on my H, but stayed for the kids. I made a deliberate choice, one I now regret. I stood before God and said I didn't care what He said, I wanted what I wanted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Your H may have had or still does have a lot of questions about the A, the OM, and your feelings. But, those informational questions boil down to him trying to understand where HE stands with you. Where you commitment is and what can he trust. It is about him healing from the deep wounds you have given him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I couldn't figure out why he asked what he asked and that he asked the same things over and over. I didn't think that he was trying to understand where he stood with me. That gives me a different perspective to consider when he is asking and I am extremely uncomfortable answering.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
But, most agree that forgiveness is a gift and it helps the giver a lot.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To me, the easiest way to describe forgiveness is: Giving up my right to hurt you because you hurt me. (quote from Dr. Dobson)
So, we both need to walk in forgiveness.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
WU, I know you are not ready yet, but it is coming but prepare yourself to lead your H and your marriage back to health. He has opened the door and invited you to lead him, by his willingness to stay in the marriage. Step through it and lead, I truly believe you will be rewarded.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That statement gives me hope, inspite of the fact I helped damage it.

I have read and re-read your last 3 paragraphs on SF and I am blown away. I have to read it again and again. It seems so simple! I felt as though I had no control and had to have sex because he demanded it, like he was marking his territory again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> The key word in those paragraphs is INITIATE. One big complaint of H is I never initiated and it was true. I see it would be easier if I could control the when and where, I could somewhat prepare myself until it happened naturally again..Does that make sense?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Does this make sense? I do hope something I have said will help.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JL, you are a godsend!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I imagine you are busy with your career, but I also see you taking the time to share what you can with others on here.

Sadfww-
Yes, what you said did make sense, especially after what JL said.
I am trying to make baby steps instead of trying to change everything at once.
For instance, H wants me emotionally involved with sex, not just physically. I need to ponder what you and JL have said and make another small effort for growth instead of a large one and having it all fall down. Does that make sense?

WU,

Here is something for you to consider. It will sound strange at first, but it applies to alot of things but particularly to SF. When I come to a stop sign particularly a 4 way stop sign, I always signal the other guy through if we arrive at close to the same time. My oldest son once asked why I did this. I told him I was NOT trying to be polite although it has that affect, I was just anxious to get going and the best way to do that, was to take control of the situation and direct traffic. That way we did not have people just looking at one another or worse meeting in the middle which really slows down progress. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

What I am suggesting is that you direct the traffic and things will flow smoother. I would encourage you to go even further, and tell your H what you want and how you want it done in bed. Now that you realize that SF is an emotional need, you need to understand something else about many men. It goes deeper than that, what we really need is to see our W's satisfied. If there is no feedback then often sex turns into "getting the job done", but if there is, if there is something the H can do to allow the W to enjoy it more, most men will do it. Why? Well, we are not as dumb as most women think. We know if you enjoy it, then it is likely to happen more often and WE enjoy THAT.

When you step back and think about your affair you can see these exact dynamics occuring. OM KNOWS you want him, you told him what you wanted just by cheating on your H. And you freely admitted what you wanted, so the SF was off to a great start, and the guess what you and OM became more and more tightly bound. THe only fly in the ointment was that you were committing adultery.

Now with your H that fly in the oinment is removed. So with time, you coming out of the fog, your H coming to realize he is safe with you, and you knowing the "secret" of sex <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , there is a very real possibility that things could be much better with your H than ever before.

WU, this stuff is simple, it is just not easy. I hope that you are learning the difference.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
You said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
What I am suggesting is that you direct the traffic and things will flow smoother.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Awesome, I am seeing it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He needs to feel safe with me...another statement to ponder.

How did you get so wise?

WU,

Well I have been here a long time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And I have been in existence for a reasonably long time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just another thought if you don't want him "pressuring" you about sex. And this will also build up trust as well. Let's say that right now it really bothers you when he expresses the need to have sex with you. But, you are not opposed to it at the right time. You could ask him if he would trust you abit with the SF portion of the marriage.

Ask him for 2-3 weeks where you control when and how you all have sex. And then you do just that, but you must remember he does need to have his emotional needs met ALL of the time, and SF is part of that. The point is if he trusts you enough to do this, and you do indeed meet this need when you feel like it or when you KNOW he needs it, you will change your attitude about sex. It will become something you think about, consider, and look forward to. I think it will change many of the dynamics of your marriage.

Just something to think about, but if you ask for this control, the with it comes responsibility to look after him and yes even protect him.

Even if you don't like the idea, it illustrates some important things about marriages. What is preceived to be control is usually just fear that something will NOT happen. But, if youhave been give some control of a portion of the marriage,then with it comes the obligation to really factor your spouse into your decisions.

In the military this is stated as "authority must be accompanied with responsibility."

I believe as you think about this you can see the possibilities and even the fun of a marriage. It is really quite simple and yet complicated, but if it is done with goodwill on the part of both spouses, it can be an amazing experience. It is something you will see if you read here long enough. The victories are sweet, and the sweetest ones are the ones we accomplish over ourselves.

Just some other things to think about.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
I put some of your suggestions to work this weekend. When H started getting friskey, I said I wasn't in the mood at the moment, but if it was ok with him, could he wait till later when I could relax, take a bubble bath, etc. H was very
agreable and the atmosphere in the home was much nicer. It also gave me time to mentally prepare. So, thanks for the advice.

2scared,
Where did you go?

WU,

I sure hope you like bubble baths. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I have a feeling he will be running you a bubble bath all of the time now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> That poor guy won't know what hit him, but I do think he is going to learn to like bubbles. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good for you.

JL

Waking up...

I'm still here. Just listening and letting others talk. I was just thinking about all the bubbles... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You're growing. You have to feel good about how things are going. You are clearing your head of the fog. How does it feel? Is the view taking on a new perspective? If you're like the rest of us, you will begin to be amazed at how your perspective changes. You will be heard saying, "I feel like I just woke up from a bad dream...what was I thinking?"

Tell me HOW your view of life is changing.

Your in my prayers.

2scared

JL,
Now, the question of the day at home from H is: "Are you gonna take a bubble bath tonight?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I would have to say that is a nicer way of expressing his wants instead of groping..

2scared,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Tell me HOW your view of life is changing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is slowly changing. For one, I'm trying to do one thing at a time, baby steps. I get very overwhelmed if I look at the big picture as far as my marriage is concerned. OTOH when I think of finally being home and just seeking God and getting to know Him and myself again, it is very exciting....There is just one very heavy weight I still carry, telling OM I am done. I know in my head and finally in my heart we are over, I just can't bring myself to say it. Calls are fewer inbetween and I find excuses to get off the phone sooner. OM talks alot of being together and I avoid the conversation. What is wrong with me?? I have ended this thing 3 times before, why is it so hard now when I really want it over? Time will force the issue, it will be very obvious when I do not move Nov 1st. I just don't understand my cowardicness....
I do feel like I am waking up though, I am relieved that I'm not leaving and won't be responsible for tearing my kid's life apart. When I think about the future with my kids, I get a picture of security for them, that's what I want. I want to show them stability and love. I want to erase all the bad thoughts and feelings they had over the things I have done..
I guess the one thing I have learned in all this is the change starts with me, I have no one to blame for anything.
Keep writing, you and JL are a tremendous help to me.
JL and 2scared,
How are your lives going? What state to you live in?
Thanks for your prayers and thoughts.

Waking Up....finally <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

AW,

You are learning how to take control of your sex life with your H. You need to now take control of your life and that means telling your OM that it is over. Not exactly the same as telling your H you need a bubble bath, but actually it is the same process.

Do you see where everyone is directing you? It is to be accountable for your decisions true enough, but to also take control of your life. I think this A has an element of your life being out of control and not knowing how to get it back. Well, it is really simple, you tell OM exactly what you need to tell him. It will not be easy, but it is really simple.

As you get used to this, you will realize you have a lot of power and it is your job to use it, and use it well. Unused power is a waste and that is what you have done in this affair. You have let your life drift, it is time to take control of it.

It will work. Your job is your life, your children's lives, and your H's. Your OM has the same responsibilities, but notice that they really don't overlap. This has gone on a long time and you have tried 3 times before, but I do think you are starting to see that you are not a victim and you can walk away from this. Further, you know you should and need to walk away from it. OM will survive and in fact it is possible that his marriage may even rekindle. It is not for you to say.

So deal with YOUR life, and keep those bubbles coming. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Waking up-

First, I’m in Missouri, just south of St. Louis (Go Cardinals!)

The fear you feel in natural. You cared for the OM and now you feel an obligation to let him down easy. You want to walk away friends. Ideally (in fantasy land)… you would both go on a cruise and say your goodbyes as you both wish the best for each other in your walk toward a future of peace and happiness. YEAH, right.…. Well, that’s not how it really happens. You have to suck it up and realize there is no easy way out of this. You’re not going to be able to make this a nice and neat package. Your mindset has to be that the OM is a disease that is killing your marriage.

If there was an intruder coming into your house who wanted to KILL your children how would you react? Would you want the intruder to “feel good” about leaving? Heck NO! You would risk your life to drive him away before anymore harm could happen. Waking up, the OM is a thief trying to kill your marriage. I know you care about him but you will have to change your mindset. He is cancer to your marriage and children.

FL and others will tell you the same thing as me. I tried to “let her down easy” when I ended my A. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID! That mistake might be what will cost me my marriage. I wanted to ease out without hurting this OP who I cared for. It just about killed me too. I was stressed for months just trying to walk away being nice. DON’T do it.

You will need to pick a date…tell him that you’ve made your decision and there will be no talking you out of it. It is over. You’re sorry, but it’s OVER! Then write a NC letter and send it. Others here will tell you not to even talk to him…to just send the letter, but he will call anyway. You need to tell him It’s OVER. You have to practice it, work yourself up to it and DO IT.

So… when (I want a date) are you going to do this?

You’re strong enough. You can do it.

God bless…

2scared

2scared,

It makes me nauseated to think of a date. I know if I put it off, the date will be 10/29/04. If I wait till then, he can't call me anymore. I want it over now though..I know I've got to suck it up and get it over with..

How did you try to end it with OW nicely, what did you do/say?

Thanks
WU

JL,
This is what you said to Myrta on another thread I had started:
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What I dont like or want, is the constant reminder and talks from his part about the affair,about the OM. The affair ended over five months ago. I made my choice on DD. I have not changed my mind, and will not do it in the future. He does not have to be talking about the OM,or affair,like it is still an ongoing thing, or like it finished yesterday . It has been over 5 months!!!
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Here is one of the parts that saddens me greatly. You see your response is really very normal. The WS always wants to move on, "I made my decision, why continue to talk about it?" It is very normal. But, Myrta it is not that simple. Do you remember when we discussed perspective? Here is where your perspective "hearing him or seeing him" is failing you.

He is talking about this because he is still a long way from healed. You are embarrassed, remorseful, sorry, etc. for what you have done. But, you also know the WHOLE story, what you were thinking, what you wanted, what you got, etc. Further, you still have a husband that you trust, who has not chosen another over you.

He does not have that luxury. He needs you to listen to the questions, and understand there is more to them than words. He needs to heal, and he needs to put a story line together that he can accept in his heart. You are the ONLY source of information for this story. So he asks and reasks, and if you were in his situation you would be doing the same thing.

Myrta, what I sense in your response is a lack of empathy. I know you feel remorse and guilty. I know you are sorry for what you did. What I don't know is that you understand what he is dealing with. So far your focus has been or seems to be primarily inward. For your marriage to fully recover it needs to be outward. I know you think it was before, but I have a few things to point out to you that suggest it was not and it is not now.


quote:
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His complain must of all, is that he wants me to talk, about the affair all the time, and also he wants me to talk, like it does not affect me. I hate talking about it. I hate that the OM is between us. I want to move on, I want to have other subjects to talk about. Thats all he wants to talk about.
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I think he realizes you would much rather ignore all of this and surely move on and be done with it. What you need to see is that this talking, this questioning is a pretty standard way for most BS's to heal. They have to come to a point of having peace that they at least know and understand most of what has turned their world upside down. That is what he is seeking. He is not seeking to punish you, or torture you. He is seeking peace. If you talked with him about this on a daily basis, do you know what would happen? He would get tired of it. He will realize he knows all he needs to know. He will see the story NOT changing and the answers staying the same, and he will gain trust.

Myrta he has to wear this problem out, before he can let it go. You KNOW everything there is to know about this, he knows little, and he feels he is standing on sand. Read his posts as I do, and see the fear, see the lack of confidence, see the uncertainty. It is in every single post of his. He talks about the OM, because he (not necessarily you) is comparing himself to the OM. He has to wear this idea out, and then he will let it go.

When you resist or are defensive, it is like banging on the cage of a wild animal, it just stirs him up. You claim you want this to go away and move on, then stop banging on his cage and he will settle down. Don't you see this? You are the one with the power her Myrta. I realize you don't like that thought, yet as we will see you do enjoy the fact that you run things in your family. I have no problem with this, just don't deny the obvious.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is one of the best things I have read on this site. It finally explains why all the questions and where H is coming from.
Our counselors recommended I didn't tell all the nitty, gritty intimate details, they said it would drive H crazy and would be a constant thought in his mind, but H says he wants details to see if there was anything OM and I did not do to see if there is anything sacred left between H and I. This makes me very sad..