I am so hopeful, yet so torn up.

WH insists that he wants to stay in M, and is making an effort to be 'normal' and loving.

The other night, I told him no contact - I won't share. He tried to leave, angry. I followed him out, angry, but firm. "You leave now, it's permanant."

He came back in, we were tearful, and apologetic. The following day, he was 'open and honest' with me. I steeled myself, and got what I expected.


"I want to stay married to you, I love you and can't imagine life without you, but I can't cut her off - her life depends on it."

I said now was not the time for me to say anything. But I'm sure he remembered the previous evening when I'd told him I'd be making a mental note of how long I'd be giving him to get her out of his life.

The sticker here is that she was homeless when they met 2 years ago, he began by listening to her and helping out, because she told him she hated street life and addiction. He says it was only within the last 6 months that it became an A. I have shared with him that if he had seen it coming and the potential for it a year ago, it had already begun, even if without the PA part that started in March.

I struggle, because I appreciate his compassion for another human being. I struggle, because I know it is useless, but he persists that he will make a difference in her life. I struggle, because I know she'll bleed him for every ounce of compassion, caring, money, our marriage and his self respect until it's gone and she moves on to the next, if there'll be one to take her.

You see, because despite all the help and understanding and support (both emotional and financial), she still uses. She uses, and cries and apologizes and promises and uses again and again. I think he has a warped self image - both a good one and a bad one - wrapped up in the whole fantasy.

While I can feel that he's warming up to my plan Aing - and it has been so hard without total honesty from him, believe me, I made some very reasonable requests at the onset: That he pay back the family household account all the money with a start being a check I borrowed money on credit to make good for him,that he get tested for STDs and HIV and to read about surviving an affair within 1 1/2 weeks of that night. I also mentioned that I'd bought him a new phone, that works, and that under then circumstances, I thought it was pretty reasonable of me to expect him to call me regularly and to answer when I called. He promised, crying, that these were reasonable requests. Today is that day and I do get pretty regular phone calls now. The other things have not been done.

He told me one of the reasons he sought time with her was that I had made him feel worthless and unneeded. that I had made him feel insignificant because I made all the money and I paid everything. With her, he felt he was making a difference in her life. I agreed with him that I'd left this hole unfilled in his life, having taken for granted that he was true and consistant with me. He told me that he loves me and will cut off the physical relationship, but that he wants her to able to call him if she needs him. I told him that I will not share my life and my husband's heart and support her. I told him I understood his compassion, and if that is really the only thing left, then to include me in any contact and I will help her, too. Later, when I asked how he was doing, he said she won't do it.

I was crushed. Her decisions are the ones he abides by.

He has never been this type of man before, never. He has always been consistent, reliable, loving, honorable and cherishing.

It is so hard to Plan A in this.

How long do I wait? Do I say anything? Is there a way through this minefield? Is this the Fog everyone talks about, or am I really just a fool leaving myself wide-open for abuse?

<small>[ October 01, 2004, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: restarting ]</small>

Gosh -

Your husband needs to have no contact and that is that. OW needs a counselor, not a lover and enabler.

Insist on no contact, or consider Plan B.

Have you considered Plan B? I know it is early but I have seen a couple of examples where it was needed. However, that is totally up to you and your ability to survive in this environment.

Be very careful with giving ultimatims unless you are for sure ready to back them up. Have you done any MC or IC? I would recommend going through this website and getting counseling with the Harley's. If you are serious about using the MB way then why not learn from the best?

You said you have read SAA have you also read His Needs Her Needs? There are several books available here that you should check out. But get HNHN first. While you wait for you books to arrive you can read all the basic concepts on this website.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How long do I wait? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is totally up to you and how much of this you can take. You don't want to run you Love Bank dry but you also don't want to give up easy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I say anything? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell him how his Actions make you feel without LBing. He needs to know that what he is doing is disrespectful, disgusting, and hurtful to both of you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there a way through this minefield? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep. Right down the middle. As you read more and more posts a path for various situations will make itself evident. Just post here and read a lot. Knowledge is Power. The impact of the things that are to come can be lessened by your knowledge and anticipation of their occurances.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this the Fog everyone talks about, or am I really just a fool leaving myself wide-open for abuse? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. Your WH is very fogged from the looks of it. Pay attention to his actions and a lot less to what he says. And be careful WS have a tendency to spray venom now and then. If you are prepared you will not LB. Only knowledge and self-respect will stop the abuse.

If he is dragging his feet on the STD testing then go get yourself tested. Don't make a big deal about it. But you need to know and be safe. There is no telling where OP has been or is going if you know what I mean.

The last thing I will suggest to you is a plan to work on yourself. None of us are perfect and we can all find something to improve on. Plus it helps to occupy you mind and will only make you more attractive. I have learned to cook, started exercising, and read all the time. Does alot more good than LBing, obsessing, or wallowing in self pitty. All of those things are very easy for the BS to fall into. A lot of self examination is necessary here.

Make sure to post here often and let us know how it is going. Take care of yourself and remember that we are here for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

C.

<small>[ October 01, 2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Thank you so much much, schm.

I am indeed determined to take care of my own growth and well-being, but feel a real need to take care of him, too. The path he's chosen, I think, is to have both of us: the reasonable and comfortable path and the fantasy of changing someone's life and the excitement of the secret life. I really have no problem imagining what he is going through.

He seems to feel some relief over coming somewhat clean with being honest about it (and I do mean somewhat) and about committing (and I do mean he appears so sincere!) to me. he seems to have a ton of emotions washing around (who doesn't????) but still holds back so much!

What's weird is, most of my family always holds an expectaion that I'll go nuts if they disclose a shame, or embarrassment to me, but I never do. You'd think, after a while, they see the pattern. I have behaved pretty darned reasonable throughout - maybe that's the mistake?

I did get tested - immediately - it was a very humbling and humiliating experience. I went ot a public health center. Put right in there with characters in the same line of work as the OW. I've avoided saying that, for the most part, except the first two nights after DD.

I am not without sin, however, and that is what keeps me from being TOO melodramatic (although I am pretty sucessful at being somewhat melodramatic, he'd say.) That, and a strong tendency to want to take care of him and the accident he's wandering into. (first child syndrome)

I see it so clearly. But doesn't everyone looking from the outside in?

I have a son who is taking advantage of my 100th chance attitude, too. That boy who is now a man makes all his choices based on what is most gratifying at the moment - never looking at the long view - but that's another thread entirely (you see now why I know I've got some self-impovement work to do - I think I've benignly neglected at least two men in my life!(I have strong tendancy toward the very masculine habit of 'fixing everything in advance or in repair mode- it is annoying to my intimates) Being a doormat is so far from my personality type. Maybe I'm not servng either one of them well. I told my H that maybe our S needed a taste of reality. H agrees but doesn't see the parallels.

It's interesting and sad to listen as he advises our S and fails to follow his own advise. Both of them justify as they go. Both indulge in whatever seems to be the dominant 'feeling' at the time. But hey, their mine, right?

I don't know if I'll have the patience for either one. I do love my H and S, bu question whether my own behavior is creating monsters.

Maybe a Plan B is in order for both. I know I can do it. I'd prefer not to.

Thanks again. Thank you for being there for me - you give me hope for my future....

belever:
I know you're right. But HE doesn't. I read a post in here from a mother who recognized that no amount of LOVE will fix an addict - they must only want it for themselves.

Can't tell him though. He's convinced he's drawn to problem people (me, his mother). I problem drink (cover the pain, escape), his mother was an alcoholic. He wants to believe I am an alcoholic and that his lover was in the same boat.

I'm not, but will be if I don't substitute some other habit to release and escape. I know that. Knowing that is a handicap. I'm so honest with myself, it prevents me from sucessfully fighting off these attacks.

I'm not ready to Plan B yet - guilt. Maybe the person who thinks she can control everything if she really applies herself - I dont' know.

But I sure do think about it! (LOL)

restarting- I am kinda mixed up here. Are you drinking all of the time?

(I apologize for the lenghty post - a little self-involved is the understatement of the year)

Do I drink all the time? No, but would like to, without the repercussions physically and emotionally and only the relief from the tumultuous emotions. My best friend warned me last night that it's too easy to use - take care of myself and heal myself for either ending that comes. I know she's right.

No, don't drink all the time, but I have all the hallmarks of someone who could. I keep thinking, each day, that I could take that little piece of armament (you drink and then....) away from H and Son by just foregoing that bottle of wine. Then, I cave in to the indulgeance, because it really does releive the hurt for a while.

H told me this am that he'd always suspected I'd lied to him about my A. He'd told his best friend back then only and just worked through it. I reminded him that he'd always suspected me from the moment we married, and that's not fair, and that I never fell in love with the OM. I got an unconfessed eye-roll from that. To him, my extramarital sex is just the same as his emotional/physical 2 year A. He is probably right, in his own heart, from what I read. I don't think he feels the same shame and disgust with himself that I did and still do, though. H3ll, I don't have to think about it, I know he doesn't. He feels shame and disgust with himself for the image and reality of himself as of a betraying H, but not for what he believes he's done for her and not for what he feels for her.

Last night, I tried to give him my passwords to all my stuff - email, internet, phone, etc. He got very very agitated and told me its not necessary - those things are private, and he doesn't need them. I looked at him with compassion and puzzlement and asked, "since when?" When he tried to justify his respect for my privacy - I reminded him that as a couple, we should have none - we never used to. And added, again, gently, we never used to need to hide anything. I also told him it's part of the healing.

This morning, he tell's me he's hurt and believes that I spoke to my brother and sister about his and my As because I'm ready to give up.(yesterday, my sis, and last night, my bro) What shocked him, though, is that both asked if I love him and when I said yes, both said I need to stay and fix. They're both better in touch with their hearts than me.

Both said not to tolerate the OW staying in his life, though. Figure out a way to MAKE him cut it off. YOU must be the most important person in his life, regardless of her situation. You see, they both know him, and this whole thing is so far removed from what he has ever been, it's just not easy to believe.

I'm hurt that they found my own unfaithfulness easier to believe.

He offered that me telling them meant I intend to end our M. I calmly, but lovingly, told him that I intend to stick it out. If he leaves, it'll be because of the choices he made, not me.
He said that when he suspected me of an A, back when it happened; he just went through it - it hurt, but it took 3-4 months, but he did it and it was over, inferring that's what we need to do now. He'd talked to his best freind, and friend asked if he had solid proof. I said, gently, but it wasn't over really, was it? If you'd confronted me, and if we'd have worked on ourselves then, maybe we wouldn't be where we are now? At first, he denied that, rather ticked, dismissively. (Perhaps he's still subconciously, emotionally defending his A) Then he kinda let a little light in, kind of relaxed his body. I said we've got things to fix - things to work on so it doesn't happen to either one us ever again, and maybe if we'd fixed it then, this would've never happened. I saw his defenses (again, not quite ready to let go of his actions and A)rise to that and I backed off. Clearly, he's still defensive of his involvement w OW, but it looks like some clarity is beginning to glimmer in his eyes.

Its strange: apparently, sharing my brother's recommedation of keeping with the marriage gave H some strength. I guess he's feared everyone would tell me to leave. He'd also feared everyone would think a whole let less of him. They're very surprised - shocked, as I mentioned before, but appear to forgive an A transgression and not change their high opinion of him since he's choosing to stay in the M.

He asked why it is that even though he says he's staying in our M, and is still here, why I have to keep bringing things up. Fair enough, I said, but don't you see that your actions don't go with your words? Why do you bring a bottle of wine home, he asks. I've got to fear what you're gonna do and say, he says. I bring it home, because today is the day - the day you'd said you'd have those things done by. The promises you made. Anger, impatience and pacing about the house from him. Calm from me. I call you all the time! he says. Yes, you have, and I appreciate that. Honey, I can only go by your actions, don't you see? Words don't mean as much as they did, cause their same words you've been using throughout this. I don't have words that I know any more.

He was angry, he punched walls - may have broken his hand, it seems in the morning light. He kept saying he was here and with me because he chose it - both last night and this morning, he said it.

Before he left for work today, I asked him to lay on our bed with me and just full-body hug me. He did, but shortly after the hug began, he lifted up away from me and said, with suspicion, because in many years I've not been emotional and affectionate I'm sure, 'why are you acting like this - this isn't you.' I looked up at him and said, 'sure it is - this is the me you married, this is the me I used to be.' He hugged me passionately for several minutes and soon began lovemaking. Bless his heart, too - he voluntarily grabs a condom at the moment needed. (it's a big deal, because he'd gotten quite upset a week before, when I'd mentioned we need to use them.)

My brother, sister and best friend told me to follow my heart. I told them my heart is not easy to trust in this. I am following my heart though. I've not been in touch with it for some time.

I'm so frightened, but know this is the course God chose to help us heal. We've been broken for some time.

Thanks for your advise and your patience.

restarting.

I don't know what others have told you, but I wanted to point out a few very obvious issues. Sorry if I 'rehash'.

The very first thing you need to do is safeguard your finances. An addict will spend you broke. If your spouse has access to your checking account, and that account is in both of your names, close it immediately. If your husband doesn't work, then it is time he started. He can open his own account then. Bad checks on an account with two signatories will get BOTH in trouble.

Next. You have to change yourself, NOW. You can not change your husband. You can change you. If you are not addicted to alcohol, then STOP DRINKING NOW. If you just like to have a drink here and there, then when your relationship is fixed months from now, you can have a few.

If you are addicted to alcohol, then GET HELP NOW. You are unlikely to be able to effectively help your marriage if you have an addiction.

After you have accomplished the two items above, you can then feel confident to address the issues in your marriage. It seems to me that the basic problem with your husband and son is that you facilitate their behavior. I suspect that guilt plays a strong part in this. You have to deal with the guilt in YOU, now , in order to be an effective force in your marital issues.

You are not the first person to wake up and realize your own shortcomings as your life falls apart around you.

Your family needs YOU. If you are a believer, then get on your knees and ask God for forgiveness and help. If you are not a believer, then you still need to consider this. Whatever it takes, get yourself cleaned up NOW. Stop wandering about feeling sorry for yourself. Your family needs a hero NOW. You are elected.

So, what are your plans, now?

Gimble

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Hi, Gimble.
Thanks for the thoghtful post.

Let me begin with a promised confession: My calm attitude that I related in previous posts was actally my own take on the situation. I'd already had a bottle of wine, no food. I said calm, because I wasn't yelling or being mean. H says I was mean and egging him on.

I used someone else's quote from around here and said, 'you're right. I'd rather be married than right on this one"

Well, last night confirmed what I'd feared - WH still helping out OW. After a pleasant day together, bonding, looking at Harleys for the future, walking throgh the mall, eating a late lunch together and coming home for a late afternoon nap, he woke and said he'd like to take a bath to clear his head. I'd been reading SAA, and left it on the tub for him to find. He took a quick bath and never touched the book, but suddenly decided to trot out to the green for a few practice shots. I followed and apologized for 'pressing' about the book and explained that i thought he might be ready, but seriously - in your own time. His reply was that he just wants to get on with our lives and not keeping talking about it.

Because he'd used the golf course as a place to make calls to OW before, once he was out there, I looked in his work van. Right on top of some work invoices, I found a bill for the room he paid for, again. I walk out to the green and asked him to come in and said we need to talk.

When he got inside, I said,'is there something you need to tell me?' 'no, no, I'm fine, I'm just groggy from the nap' 'are you sure?' 'no, really, I'm fine, I just don't want to talk about it' 'Honey, I know in my heart you're still in contact with her' When he began to deny again, I said, follow me.

I led him out to the van and gave him the bill. 'OK, I did, but she really needed help - I only paid for one day - I'll explain' I shook my head, and pointed out she'd been there all week. He asked that we go in and talk and said he'd explain.

He explained that she had used again and her mother had kicked her out of the house where her daughter lives and that she had been staying there on her own, but just needed help that one night, so she called him and he helped, saying she paid for the other days, and he only paid for the one. I thanked him for opening up and confessing and we talked for some time.

This time, we had a very rational discussion about all of our sins. I told him the reason I wanted him to read SAA is because the whole course of this thing is so textbook - for both of us. He told me much more than he had in the past, and seems to be very very close to having a clear picture.

We both confirmed, emotionally, we want to stay married.

I showed him these posts and he thought it was unfair that I don't speak more about my own PA. And that I should be more frank about how much I drink. That being a 'problem drinker' is the same as an alcoholic.

We spoke very openly about the useless of his efforts to get OW clean, about that side of life. I pointed out that I really don't like being the one who points these things out, because he has alot of emotions and ego and rationale tied up in justifying what he's done and it is human nature to 'shoot the messnger'. He told me her own mother had told him her was risking too much to help her (OW).(he had tried to get them together to help OW. Mother is a clean coke addict - 12 step, I think)

I told him very calmly and rationally that we cannot heal until they have no contact. I pointed out the risks he is taking with our very lives - what if she left something in his van and he was searched or arrested? What if the police assumed she or one of her freinds was soliciting and hauled him in? What if one of the dealer she has called from our company cell phone gets busted and the police trace his calls? I pointed out that he is no the only at risk, but all the lives he touches.

Have you thought about our son or daughter getting the news from an officer or a newpaper about your arrest or even your death?

I asked him, pointedly, why he would risk all this. His reply is that he knows it's next to impossible, but if he could just get her in treatment, he could put her behind him. There really is no longer an affair. I gently, sadly, pointed out that as long as he is emotionally wrapped up in her wellfare, there is indeed an affair and we can't be us as long as it's there.

I offered, that if it is truly just that she needs someone to call for help, that it be me. That if she'd ever been sincere in telling him that she wanted out of that life, she'd have said,'please, just take me to treatment' and would not have taken his charity to set her up in an efficiency hotel and take his money for food and beg him to pay her dealers each time she slipped while she never made the effort to work.

I asked him to take me to see her Sunday morning, introduce me and cut off all contact between she and him. He got very quiet. I asked him to 'say it. You've done very well up to this point, and I think I've done very well listening...' He agreed and then took a deep brath and said that she refuses to see me. That he won't do it, because he's afraid of what she'd do - that she'd have a major set back.

I took my own deep breath. I tried one more time: look, if she was really serious with all the statements to you that she hates the life and wants to get clean, why should she, when you are hurting her? Your help is hurting her. She really has no reason to get clean. Tell her she is not to contact you until she is clean and then only through me. If you really want her to get clean, and you really believe she will do it for you, that is the only way it will work.

Please, I begged, for your own sake, look at all the websites from former addicts - none will ever say that they succeeded by doing it for someone else.

I'm so sad, but must go on for my own sake, for his sake and my son and daughter.

Oh, and Gimble, you are right. I must not drink anymore. It certainly keeps me from working on the healing.

What is next step?

<small>[ October 06, 2004, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: restarting ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I offered, that if it is truly just that she needs someone to call for help, that it be me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was going to suggest such a thing. This child does not need help though just someone to manipulate. That is what she is doing to your WH.

Sounds like your WH came out of the fog a little long enough to listen to some of what you said. But notice how he will agree to the things you are saying in theory but when it gets down to taking action he is making up excuses. Example he is not willing to let you do what you have suggested in the quote above. It is NOT OW's choice who she accepts help from. It IS WH's choice if he continues to disrespect and displace his M This is the fog talking here. His A is nothing less than an Addiction and it must be treated as such. Dr. Harley says that when two people cannot seem to make it work even with the principals in place addiction is almost always the cause. I would not encourage WH to read the posts here either save that for your H and recovery.

And please pay attention to yourself. I would suggest that you do some self examination into your own addictions as well and get some help if you need it.

God Bless you and Take Care

C.

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Schm:

Thanks again.

I thought I was permature about showing him this site - not quite ready for it.

I have an appt w a MC tomorrow night. I am not drinking anymore - it fogs me, too. I'd rather remember everything anyway.

Reason is finally making headway for him re the addict and the uselessness of 'helping' - every site visited says to let go and let God. They say that helping is hurting, bc it just delays the desire of the addict to want and seek help.

I asked him this morning for a plan for NC. Still no answer.

We genuinely agreed last night that we are strong enough to rebuild our M. Haven't yet gotten past 'doing it his way.'

I do love him so much. I don't know how long I can go on like this, though. Maybe emotional withdrawal for a while, if I can manage it...

thanks, again,

restarting

Please keep giving us an honest report on your drinking. That is the first thing you need to work on. Because the drinking temporarily kills the pain, you will not do the growing and changing that you need to do.

Your WH sounds like the typical co-dependent, thinking that he has any power to help OW. As long as he "helps" her, she will not get clean.

What kind of work does your WH do? Does he enjoy it? I ask because IF he is unfulfilled in his career, then you may want to consider suggesting to him to consider a change of career that would suit his nature of helping others.

Ah...the Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome...Know it well. Being an addict? Know that too well, also.

Welcome, restarting. You're off on the right foot, here. By being here, and the wonderful responses to youur situation. I agree with, shmaley, though. The Harley's or any MC/IC is something that sounds like you need. You have a lot of issues and its very obvious you want to work through them. Excellent for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Keep posting and you'll get some invaluable insights--and just the fact you have someonwhere to turn to with people who have BTDT.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They say that helping is hurting, bc it just delays the desire of the addict to want and seek help.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ABSOLUTELY! Enabling. Because of how *you* described it, I would say--NEVER EVER AGAIN PICK UP ANOTHER DRINK IN YOUR LIFE!

Please discuss this with your C.

You also sound like you trust Him. Keep trusting Him. He will show you strength in yourself you could never have imagined!

Best wishes and God bless, restart.

Believer,

I promise to do that.

Update: spoke w H, who is working, told him I was meeting a gf for lunch, he said he'd talked to two of his friends and thought they'd play golf this afternoon.

I A'd him with, "that sound nice and you'd certainly enjoy that, but I was looking forward to spend tiime with you this afternoon."

He invited me to play too!

I offered that maybe he'd wanted time to talk with his freinds, and I'd understand if that was so, but would really look forward to spending more time with him.

He said he would, too and I am really welcome, although talking to his friends would be nice too. (they know story)

Then he said he has really enjoyed spending time with me when its not too stressful, but he is really glad with what we did last night - really starting to clear the air.

I thanked him with a pleasant sigh and said,'like I said last night, I recognize I have enough of my own character traits to overcome, not the least of which is controlling myself and others and I hope you have noticed."

"oh, I have, retarting! you've become so diplomatic. it's really nice."

'Its been hard, H, but I know my part in this and am really determined to become a better person. And I feel really good about our conversation last night, too. I think it went much better than ever.'

'yes, it did. you did a great job of being reasonable. you amaze me.'

LINY- thanks, too for your welcome and your thoughts. Was your devil alcohol?

This is indeed a warm and refreshing site.

It is has truly given me insight and hope...

sincerely,

restarting

restart...you really have a lot going on--I mean, you really sound like you have a game plan and implementing it very well! Great for you!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Was your devil alcohol?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No. My devil was, is, and forever will be gambling. (Scratch-offs, to be exact. Very compulsive/impulsive.)

That's how I know--you can NEVER pick up another drink; I can NEVER buy even one scratch off. So goes the cycle.

God bless!

TMCM,

He's in AC business. Likes ownership, but its a hot, tough job.

Liked your Garage....

retarting

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by restarting:
<strong>

.......I'm so sad, but must go on for my own sake, for his sake and my son and daughter.

Oh, and Gimble, you are right. I must not drink anymore. It certainly keeps me from working on the healing.

What is next step? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, restarting.

The plan is to not let guilt rule your life so that you can regain the respect of your family. Every time you are tempted to drink again, you must realize, and remind yourself, that drinking undermines any respect or potential respect that your family has for you. That in turn limits your effectiveness at resolving your situation.

Step two. Realize and face head on the likely fact that your husband is using too. No matter how nice a guy he is, it is likely that he is in her pants and her stash too. This is one of those cases that you can't just "hope you are wrong". Again, protect your finances. GET LEGAL HELP to do so. Do it first thing Monday morning.

Let me be perfectly blunt here. You are not only dealing with the lies and betrayals of an affair, you have the potential for another, larger load of garbage piled on top of an already stinky situation. YOU CAN NOT TRUST AN AFAIR PARTICIPANT. In the case of drug use, HIDE YOUR WALLET TOO!! This is not an unfair judgment, this is simply the facts of life.

At this point in time, the reasons for your husbands yearnings to 'help' this person are unimportant. You simply must build an area of protection for you and kids before you address any other behavior. Once you have a position of strength to work from, then you can externalize.

In my first message to you, I ended by asking "What is your plan, now?".

Please outline your plan in the next message to the forum. You need to write it out. Keep it simple. You need to be able to remember it when you find your self in a hard situation.

I am not trying to be hard on you. You have to understand that addiction is trying to get its tentacles into your family's life. You have to stop that first before you can proceed.

Gimble

Hi, Gimble.

That's advice I hadn't wanted to hear...

I am positive he hasn't tried. I am certain the attraction is like slowing down to look at a wreck. That, and 'white-knight'.

This morning, he called to let me know that Billy Joel has just remarried - a woman more than half his age. He expressed- oddly enough - what could make a person choose someone who's life is so diffeent from their own?

I had to really bite my tongue. But instead said, 'who knows what makes people do what they do? He's looking at the things he want to look at, and never even allowing the things that he doesn't want to see. He just knows it it's good right now.'

Would you ever do that? he asked.

M: Well, I know I wouldnt' right now, I'm married.(smile in my voice)

H: I mean, if you were single, could you marry a 23 yer old?

M: Probably not. But I might date.

H: Why? what would you talk about? What's the use if you can't talk with them?

M: Well, I think a lot of people just look at what is fullfilling at the time, but you're right, if you don't share values, what's the long-term benefit?

H: But half his age. I'm sure most people think about it, but most guys in their 50's aren't millianares.

M: They don't have to be. Think about it from both sides; she's looking for someone stable, established, inauthority because she's 23 and has found out life and bills can be pretty tough. He's flattered that someone who's not his age, his peer is intersted and attracted to him. It's a bigger challenge, a bigger conquest than someone in his league. He's just looking at what immediate need she fills for him and ignores the rest.

H: But those things don't work.

M: He's not looking at that. But you know why it never works?

(I can't remember exactly what he said at this point, and it'd be unfair to try to quote, but it was basically that the foundation was never there.)

It was really hard to not point out the parallels.But I was pleased he broached the subject - seems to indicate some fog clearing...

Gimble, you seem inordinantly concerned about WH's possibility of drug use himself. When it's so far away from his whole past - I mean the guy rarely ever has even gotten drunk - why would he do that?

Thanks again. I will think today on an outline of my Plan A and Plan B and post - good advice.

restarting

LINY:

thanks for sharing. Even if I'm not at the stage of accepting no alcohol is forever, I am resolved that it's out for now.

too dangerous. I tlk too much and LB potential is so strong.

H offered a beer to me last night. I told him I'd just rather not drink during the week. I don't need him focusing on my 'recovery' or resoluation.

Hey - bad dreams. Normal?

restarting.