restarting

I've got to commend you on a job well done when you and your talked about Billy Joel getting married to a younger woman. It is so easy to LB a foggy spouse especially when it sounds like the 'pot calling the kettle black'. I also commend you on your decision to quit drinking for awhile for alcohol only weakens and ultimately destroys a person [I should know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, 10 years sober].

Have you and your H filled out the The ENQ(Emotional Needs Questionaire) and the The LBQ(Love Busters Questionaire)? It is a great way to discover his [and yours] most EN [emotional needs] and it just might even help to defog him a bit.

Please make it a personal project to start schedule time alone with your H. Dr Harley states that couples should invest at least 15 hours a week of time together away from others. I know its hard but nothing worth having is ever easy.

restart...I admire your convictions and committments. I really do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Regarding the alcohol thing (and I don't want to harp on that, so I'll leave it here--unless you have specific questions), but you have an unfortuante advantage: Seeing an addiction from both sides.

Keep up the great work you are doing!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by restarting:
<strong> Hi, Gimble.

That's advice I hadn't wanted to hear...

....... Gimble, you seem inordinantly concerned about WH's possibility of drug use himself. When it's so far away from his whole past - I mean the guy rarely ever has even gotten drunk - why would he do that? .........

restarting </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A simple answer. Because it is there. The same reason he is in an inappropriate relationship with this girl. Why would you think that he would have an affair and not do drugs? The affair is not like him, is it? Maybe his motivation in trying out the drugs is so that he can better 'understand' what she is going through. The most obvious answer is "because he is already being stupid, why would he stop at the affair only..."

Again, I am not trying to be mean. Please see to your finances ASAP.

Good job on turning down the drink.

All the best,
Gimble

Many thanks to TMCM, LINY and Gimble.

I can do the no drinking thing, just don't WANT TO. (edit: read this a little later, forgot to add that I am not drinking.) Filling time on Plan A just goes to show me how much I've truly neglected and gotten out of the habit of being a good spouse and partner and into the habit of being a piece of furniture in the room. Not very enriching for myself and self growth either, for that matter.

I have broached the subject of the ENQ and LBQ, (last Sat night) and finally did not get completely rebuffed. Inching my way in through the fog, I guess. He may not entirely trust me either you know?

What if I tell her these things and she doesn't come through? What if she uses it against me? What if she tries to hammer me into doing things I don't want to do?

I've spent the majority of our marriage as a formidable debater and logical, firm coercer. He has a point. Being a giver - in the purest sense - has not been my strongest suit. I've been a do-er, a decision-maker, a tyrant at times. and have definitely always looked for the return on whatever I gave, from a mere thanks to the absolute tangible.

I truly look forward to the day when we are partners, working together on a happy healthy marriage.

Well, that's putting the cart before the horse. We have plenty to work on yet before we get to that.

restarting

<small>[ October 05, 2004, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: restarting ]</small>

Thanks for being there, all.

This site has been a life-saver for me. Awash in intense emotions and emotional swings and utter panic - these are things that have been foreign to me for some time. Finally went to Dr for Pacsil and Xanax.

WH appears to be coming out of the fog... , bc his words and some actions and emotions are so sincere. He is calling me from work quite regularly. He is saying 'love you' and words of endearment, alot. He is hugging and touching me regularly. He is referencing our future together and sharing the details of his day. He opened up a 'saving your marriage' book and started to read. Last night, he did the ENQ and we talked about them (surprised we have such similar ENs and expectations and assessments). He is expressing appreciation for my honesty and level-headedness through this thing.

Here's the thing, though: He told me the A is over, and I truly believe he is in the frame of mind where he is recognizing that much of what he was going through w/ OW was an idealized , but unrealistic fantasy ("I can change her, I can make difference in her life, I can make things better", etc and the euphioria that comes the vision of being the rescuer). He speaks of our personal strength and future and M with more passion and anticipation.

BUT, he has not let go of that last option yet for her to contact him if she's in trouble.

I can only hope, when the time comes - and I'm sure it will - that he will opt for his own choice of trusting me to help as I promised. That he will not to risk everything to sustain her desperate choices to keep her in her lifestyle and in her illusions of his role in it that fanatasy.

Hope and fear. Is this what it all comes down to?

I am so fearful because he justified/rationalized it for sooooo long - this keeping of his secret life from me and everyone else in his life - making high-risk decisions that effect so many more people than just them - this vision/fantasy/dramatic life -- I am fearful the habit is in place and the draw is intense.

I fear it, because I've come to terms with the possibilty that he might choose to continue to indulge. And if he did, that I can live with his decision to leave. My resolve saddens me, because I'd rather we recover and rebuild.

I keep thinking that if I believe enough,if I give him the environment of love and peace enough - he will make the best decision. I worry, b/c he says if he includes me, she 'might go backwards'. (I still wonder, too, if his concern is what she will tell me about the A) I gently told him, each time she used again, she had already gone backwards. His help makes her go backwards.

I belive accepting it is hard for him, b/c accepting that reality - rather than the fantasy - will mean he didn't really make a difference and he'll have to actually accept that he'd wasted his time, money, jeapordized our M, his energy and emotions - not to mention, VERY importantly, his own self-esteem. He is re-evaluating his true values.

I keep hoping (and most of me believes) what he values most is what is what is right in the big picture. I fervantly hope that rather than taking the easy way - allowing her to once again find a quick patch to her ongoing lifestyle - I hope he will persevere and do what is truly right. Let her to find her way to really wanting and doing what SHE needs to do to LIVE and quit doing these things that can only lead to a miserable death, taking so many with her.

Am I putting myself through too much by making such an effort to understand his position?

Am I handicapping him and us by too much understanding? Or am I helping us along to a better, more stable and stronger M?

Is this just my own 'fog' of betrayal - or hope and belier for the future?

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: restarting ]</small>

Restarting,

I see that you have gotten some excellent advice from all the posters. I do have one point that is in your original post.

He told me one of the reasons he sought time with her was that I had made him feel worthless and unneeded. that I had made him feel insignificant because I made all the money and I paid everything.

Do not fall for this trap nor give it credence by ignoring the statement from your WH. This is a classic manipulation, blaming the spouse for doing what has to be done for the family. Our MB posts are littered with comments like these and apparently it is easy to accept this irrational BS from your irrational WS. You are paying the bills and working because one of your greatest strengths is ACCEPTING the roles that your family dictates to you. DO NOT ACCEPT HIS INTERPRETATION OF THIS STRENGTH AS A PROBLEM OF YOUR M. It is his abdication of HIS role that is the problem. It is his weakness not your strength that is THE problem

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Cymanca ]</small>

Cym,

Thanks for the breath of reality. My sister (and several of the posts here) keep reminding me that although my own shortcomings may have contributed, my actions or inactions DID NOT MAKE THE DISCISION. He did.

Inside, I struggle with doubts all the time: what did he tell her, how many more lies will I eventually uncover, is this a play to keep things nice until a BS LB and then - boom! all over again, is he going to actually MC ever, is he just going to try go go back to 'normal'(pre DD), is he trying to 'accidently' run into her -despite that it's 'over', and on and on.

But I also relish the changes: he's becoming more open with me - even yesterday, listening to a morning radio show, they gave an 800 number to call in for coment, he dialed one number off and got 'horny housewifes who want to talk' - he called me immediately to tell me (he knows I have and will continue to check his phone records). My heart swelled. He volunteered!

I love this place and am developing an addiction. You folks give me such peace!

Point of information for all: .25m Xanax for the panic/paralysis moments. I am almost effective at work again and not biting my tongue off preventing LBs all the time....

restarting

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Update...

We had many clear-headed evenings, or so I thougtht.

Last Saturday, he looks over at me in the car as we go to meet a freind and says,"I just wanted to tell you - I found out OW has initiated the process to get into an 18mo rehab program."

1st, I thanked him for being honest and telling me about the additional contact. Then I asked how he found out. She called Friday. I got very hurt and angry, bc just that night, I had asked if there was anything else to tell me and he'd said not. It's over.

Big fight - he walked home.

When we got home, I told him that even though no sex, staying C w/ her is still taking from me and it hurts. I love you, but don't know how long I can do this. We were pretty calm, but i slept on the couch.

In am, he left for work, but I panicked and thought he was going to meet her, so left to go see about 45min after he left. On road, he called and said he was at work and would I like to come? I lied and said I was on way to get car cleaning supplies, but I'd re-route.

Once there, he found that his tools had been stolen. when we drove over to contractors house to tell him, he noticed how quiet I was.

Finally, I told him that I had also found a bill for Walgreen's with items including douche - which i don't use. I asked him when I would ever be able to trust any of his words again?

I keep getting assurances, and he keeps telling me he wants to stay married, but I gave him several opportunites to tell me, come clean with me, but here it is.

I told him that every time he or I drive past places I know he's kept her, or where she hangs out, it is terribly painful. It hurts so much i want to through everything away and just move.

more than once, i've considered just leaving and moving in w my brother or sister.

very quiet drive home. I asked him to think that day about a full committment to how he will handle it and committ to my security is our M.

But when I asked in the evening, he said it was over, what more do I want? he got angry when I told him that no sex does not mean no R, that each time he allows her into his life, she is in mine.

very angry. told me he'd leave bc I'm amking him leave. I said you leave, I leave.

you can't, he said. you have the house, Alex, job..

I can, I will.

very angry. he went to leave in work van, i went t back out of garage. he blocked me.

fine. i'll leave later.

he threatened to cut wrists with steak knife. I told him he'd be no use to anyone if he did that. think of Gwen, alex. kept going.

I smirked and said he'd be useless to OW - she'd certainly 'go backward' if he went through with it.

Kids came in right after I gave him Plan B:

Dear M,

I do love you - so much it makes my heart break.

It's come to a point, however, that despite how much I love you - I can no longer bear the pain of C in our life.

Please respect my wishes to have absolutely no contact until you are ready to come to terms to rebuild our marriage.

In the meantime, please only relay your messages through Gwen or Alex.

I love you, but cannot live this way.

M

I told kids about it.

They hammered him about - reasoning with him, etc. But both agreed and insist she should not be more imprtant than me, us and M. She has her own life and own decesions, etc.

I'm tired.

What do I do if he refuses both options? continued C and won't leave?

I know he loves me and is determined to stay in M, but is also determined to 'be there for her'. he says as soon as she's in rehab, his job is over. I asked what he'll do when she can C him - and she will. no answer.

please advise.....

restarting

So sorry to be such a pest - but certainly need some (a lot of) guidance....

Have I jumped the gun by delivering an angry Plan B?

When he's making other considerations and testimonials of love and permanance and a future together, yet he still in contact, am I plan a-ing?

I see myself potentially at a crossroads: plan A, and knowing without question that he is keeping in contact with OW or Plan B, risking that it may indeed be all over.

He, too, is at a crossroads : OW and her addiction or me and his marriage.

I can't bear the pain of him making decisions putting her well-being in front of mine any more, though. The constant fear.

I want to feel safe again!

restarting

Have I jumped the gun by delivering an angry Plan B?
Plan B letter shoul not be angry in any way.
When did you do Plan B?
Did you post the Plan B letter here before you gave it to him?

Chris, no. I LBd all over the place.....

After a whole day of sadness that he is still not honest with me, is still allowing her to contact him for 'help' and he contacting her to see how she is....

I just can't stand the pain of it!

I told him I love him, that I want to rebuild, that every day is a reminder of her - it's a goping, raw wound that his lack of honesty is salt ground in.

He says they are not intimate and he is getting to where he doesn't even 'like her' anymore, but feels an obligation to 'help out' until she's in rehab.

I told him he has his own choices to make, but if he thinks that just because there is no sex, that there is no affair, then he is wrong. Tha each time he thinks about her, or puts her in front of me, he has forsaken me. I asked him to give me a solid plan, to make me feel safe again.

When I asked for it, he gave promises, but still held out on cutting her off from him.

I lost it.

I hand wrote, basically:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear M,

I do love you - so much it makes my heart break.

It's come to a point, however, that despite how much I love you - I can no longer bear the pain of C in our life.

Please respect my wishes to have absolutely no contact until you are ready to come to terms to rebuild our marriage.

In the meantime, please only relay your messages through Gwen or Alex.

I love you, but cannot live this way.

M

I guess I should really get back into plan A again, huh?

But how do I handle the OW thing in plan A?

The "letter" you gave him was okay. It could have been longer and more detailed but it said what it should say.

I think you could use Plan A a bit longer.

Has he tried to contact you at all?

As far as the ow, take a deep breath. You don't have to like it nor do you have to pretend you are okay with it.
But, you MUST absolutely not lovebust.

Read the links below.

hi, Chris,

he refused to leave.

He's sad and very mad.

He went and got screened for stds and hiv today and is mad as a wet hen caught in an electric fence.

I can do better, but how do I handle the continued contact in plan A-ing? Isn't that crossing the line?

It really hurts....

WOW, Chris, you've been here a long time!

Thanks so much for responding.

Xanax only helps just so much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The posts "In Search of Encouragement" really helped a lot, too.

I want so badly to fix it all and have us all get better and not do the wrong things. The patience that logic dictates occassionally gets overruled by my aching heart.

I love this place.

help help help help help

Asked H for gurarantee of NC last night and made it plain that I must have it or cannot continue living with him.

Been just shutting off, emotionally, when I can. Otherwise, I'm a real wreck.

He went to do it today. But says he may just leave me anyway....

I guess I just have to learn to live with it, no matter what happens.

I can't live with him with her in our lives. I can't bear to see him destroy himself and our family.

He is distraught and describes it like someone dying who is important to you.

It hurts me to see him in such pain. It hurts me that it is painful for him.

Help me - what do I do to help him and help me????

restarting,

I basically just did the same thing you did. D-day was 2 weeks ago. Initially WH said he would break things off with OW and work on M. But the other night he said he didn't know if he wanted to do NC and wasn't sure if our M would ever work. I told him he could continue living here, whether or not he's proactively working on the M, as long as there is NC. I told him we can take it day by day...each day that he has NC, he can come home. If he has C, he must be honest with me and we'll deal with it then. Hopefully this will work. I know my WH is absolutely torn - wants OW but doesn't want to leave home.

Hopefully it will be successful for you too!

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> SW, thanks so much for posting and identifying.

Today has been tough - on both of us.

He told me today a host of things... one moment he loves me and it's the best thing, the next that he thinks he's doing the wrong thing by leaving her - that she'll go 'back to the street' and he doesn't want that to happen.

I don't know how to penetrate the fog....

I just know I can't live with him supporting her until she crashes and burns.

I don't know how to get him to help himself and stop this ruinous path.

Our children would never forgive him, I know he know's this at some level, but still he pines for her and what he thinks he's doing for her.

I can't talk to him sensibly about it at all, (and I have tried, compulsively I guess, since MB says don't try at all...)

Sometimes, he's so lucid. But then, I found out despite his protestations of love that he was still lying to me.

I need some advice from someone who sees any hope here. (or no hope, if that's the case).

Do I return to plan A? Do I allow that he stay in the home even if I suspect he's still helping her?

Part of me wants to Plan A more - to show him what he has and get used to it and preserve it.

Part of me wants to just let him leave and forego all this deceit each time my hope and faith seem to be restored.

I'm so angry that he is still paying for her and not for our family! I'm so angry and resentful that he would burden me with all these responsibilities so he can pursue his rescue!

But so far, the part of me that's winning is the part that wants a healthy, strong, better marriage to the man I fell in love with and have loved for 22 years.

Help me do the right thing?

Kinda scared to post for fear of jinxing...

Had very good things happen today. (Fearful of foggy mood swings to come, tho)

Decided that I'd totally 'buy in' on the Plan, and ignore my hurt, ignore the resentments of remembering what's been done, Ignore the anticipation of what may still come (whether in the form of more C, Plan B, Sep, D, or just seeing and knowing when he may romanticize his escapades, etc)- and applied myself to actually, truly, look for things to appreciate and mention (esp his ENs, if possible). Also, presenting my new resolve, to being patient (so hard!) to giving freely my love (also so hard! - bad me - bad habits) and to making a true effort to understand his turmoil and be there for him.

(Tough job, but somebody's got to do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )(I have a feeling he'll be there for me later, when I need it though.)

ANYWAY.

Point is, as expected, OW called for $$ today. She'd used again and owed for the drugs. First asked, then demanded, then accused him of not caring and never meaning to be there for her. He told her he was not everyone's personal savior and he wasn't going to do it. He's got enough of his own problems to solve, and this whole thing has cost him alot: $$, credit, hurt, self-respect and respect of others. She said, "I guess it's over," and hung up on him.

I thanked him for his honesty. I said it still hurts, but I'd rather know, and thank you for letting me know and I am so proud of him. He said it's really over for him. He can see now how the pattern never changes and it's not worth what it's costing him and he's realizing he really can't make her better. He said he felt relief. Said he felt like a real man. I told him I admired his strength.

He did a short backstroke and said thanks, but he wan't sure if he'd always be that strong. I told him I was sure he'd be strong... (It gave me a heart attack, though)

(I think some gentle exposure to crack addiction websites and forums helped him see how her actions followed a specific, manipulative pattern of addicts (personal confessions and accounts of their behavior)and that no amount of 'help' would help her. (every addict says to let them fall)He's finally seeing that she must do it herself!)

He called me to let me know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My heart burst with pride. Very tough step for him to take and make happen and stick it through.

She called back in about an hour and acted like things were back to normal for them and asked him to go buy her some bandages. (no surprise - it's worked so well inthe past, right?) He still didn't bite. She said he'd never trusted her and was too controlling, just like her ex - wanting to know where she is and what she's doing all the time, etc (A surprise to an addict?!!) She brought up all the changes she's made (those same changes he'd told her he was proud of - off the street (hooking), staying off crack), but he pointed out that she'd never gotten clean, still used, and even abandoned her daughter - and here she is calling with the same old pattern - how could he ever trust her? It's time for him, now, to heal. As far as he is concerned, she has three choices: quit using and get a job, go to detox , or just use and support yourself - but look to him to do it for her and don't ask him for any more money - its already cost him too much in so many more ways.

He said he's avoiding his phone, thinking she'll call and saying that he doesn't want to pick up the phone and it be her, because it still hurts and he's still emotional. I said I understand - he said I realy don't. I agreed - but said I am willing to do my best to TRY to understand and help him through it. I suggested changing the number again - bc she will always call - she knows his weaknesses and will always call - its what they do. - it always worked before.

He also shared with me that he's had some residual anger over the office PA I'd had and the fact that I'd been in the bed in the guy's home. (Bit my tongue that he'd been in OWs bed and her history of prostitution) Good thing, too, because part of the honesty he continued to share with me was 'how could he hold that against me, when she'd done it so freely and frequently (did not mention for the money tho.)? I took it for what it's intended, which was him letting go of anger and wanting to be open. Not a time to pick at that logic.

He also shared that we both try too hard to 'control'others and the situations around us - he does it one way and I another. THAT was neat, to have that level of open personal appraisal and sharing!

As I praise him, he stops me and says I don't have to keep trying to convince him to love me.

I sure hope this is the path to strength and wellness and a true rebuilding. I don't want ever again what we had before - I want more - I want better.

Thanks for your patience with the long post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

restarting (in Tampa)

Update. (this may be somewhat stilted, bc H now reads here)

Sat evening, I just had a feeling, y'know?

I asked if there was anything more about the day's events, I told him how proud I was of him and that I feel for the pain he is experiencing.

I drank a bottle of Pinot Noir after very little food that day, none for supper and a ton of anxiety.

H and kids say I get too criticial and thoughtless of others' feelings when I drink now. I *think*, in that haze, that I 'm just being 'matter of fact'. Of course, I'm probably smarter to listen to them.

H told me that night (amongst other things) as he shared the difficulty he's going through and his thoughts that OW and I have a lot in common since we both are addicts - that I have been drinking more - but also reminded him that aside from all this, it's been a very tough year.That thethat he will do whatever needs to be done to ensure that she not phone him and he not see her. That I am still interested in rebuilding our marriage, but cannot with her in my life. I also said that although I still feel that way now, I don't know how long I will.

We went to bed distant, but still agreeing to stay married.

Sunday morning, we woke and I stroked his shoulder in bed. Although still a bit numb from the stress of the previous day, he was slightly warm toward me, then told me I have a drinking problem. I agreed - I definitely drink to hide my problems.

Then a little SF that was stress-relieving and loving and wonderful.

Then, he went out to get a paper and breakfast.

I panicked and followed him 10 minutes later to see if he'd gone to the store he said or was off to 'check up on OW.'

I didn't see our car there.

Went home and check in at MB to gain calm and hope. Got enough for both, thank you!

H came home an hour later, very chipper, very lovey. Bags and receipts to purchase already disposed of. Panic hit again... if he's not seeing her, where's all the W/D he should be going through???? Why isn't he distracted??? Why am I getting attention???? Why is he focused on how we spend our day together???

(Isn't this all really very, very SAD? - I used to take those things for granted!)

While he was shaving, he'd taken off his pants and laid them over a chair. I reached in and found receipts. One for the breakfast and one for Walgreens (see previous post on why this is signifigant).

I began shaking uncontrolably and could honestly barely walk. It shook me to the core. Oh my God, I thought, he lied to me after all that. Oh my God, I have no choice now, it's over.

I went, shaking, into the bathroom and deliberately place the receipts slowly ad firmly on the counter in front of him and said, ' You have to leave."

He looked up at me inceduously, then down at the receipts then up at me again, and asked What?

Look at them, I said, dazed. I mean I was really struggling to talk, i was so stunned. I felt as if it was Dday all over again, but without the pretense that I could actually 'do something about'.

"it's Walgreens - dated yesterday."

"so you're making me leave?" "No, it's a choice you made." "OK. I'll pack" "OK"

I walked into our den, still stunned and incapable of stringing any thoughts together. My thoughts kept bouncing from disbelief, to now what, to I really believed him, to what will this mean NOW, and on and on....

He came in to sit with me. He explained she asked and he did it bc he was also telling her it's over. I told him it was important to be honest. I asked him how I will ever be able to believe him again, with tears in my eyes. I was terribly bereft.

He shook his head and said he knows he needs to change, that he wants to change that he wants to cut her off, but still worries and it's hard, but he wants to stay married.

I told him I can't believe his words anymore. That I keep looking for actions that follow the words, but this is what I get - actions that don't go with the words. I asked when I get to believe him again.

He won't tell me where OW is - says that's her private business and her money and under her name.That leaves me feeling that she is more important than me, and I told him. He still insists that's private.

I asked what is private between 2 married people? He was stuck only a moment, then said he doesn't like being watched and snooped on. I said the fact that he had lied and betrayed and snuck and hidden and had secrets is what brought that on. He continued to argue that one. I just agreed and asked for what he thought was reasonable under the circumstances.

I asked him to please give me a plan for preventing her from contacting him. He offered to change his cell phone, but says the business line is non-neg. I told him it was worth the $600/mo for yellow pages we'd waste. It's too much, he said. I asked him to look at the irony of that statement. (cost of keeping OW for past several months has been at least $3-4000/mo)I suggested no call forwarding and a message service to record and relay calls. He actually said they won't get your calls to you! I asked, How? That's their JOB.

We spent all day working on it.

I shared this site with him starting with the 'letter to WS'. I want him to get the same benefits and guidance and relief I have gotten out of it and a path to rebuilding our marriage.

He read quite a bit. Finally posted.

He read more on MB. He cried and I held him. I told him I'd help as much as I can for as long as I can.

I drank another bottle of wine last night.

During the evening, I told H I need a definite plan and actions I can count on to open his life to me and guarantee NC. He told me that he'd NC OW if I quit drinking and added, that's a non-neg. (like the phones)

I told him he might as well leave then. (this is the 'matter of fact' me I spoke of earlier.)(and the hard, critical me they speak of)

I thought I was being plain-spoken.

This AM H woke me and asked if I remember what we talked about. I did. I asked him if he remembered. He left without a goodbye or peck. I called to ask if he were going to leave that way and he turned around and came back. (heart pounds)

There's more, but this is too long.

Was sharing this site with him 'too soon'?

There's good stuff too: He keeps calling me with progress on his work and earnings and what I can expect to go into the household fund. There's future talk, too.

ILYs are in short supply today tho.

restarting...hey...posted to WH today...haven't checked yet to see if he responded.

I was going to quote some things in your conversations, but, I think it would be rehashing and hurtful rather than helpful.

But just a few points/questions...

Did you have this drinking problem before or after the A? The reason I ask this, is because it wouldn't be too bad of a POJA your H offered. HOWEVER, I don't think his intention (only you can be for sure) was to better your M or you: it was fingerpointing in a warped way. "You stop drinking and I'll stop drugging and f'ing this girl." WTF?!?!? Maybe if he reads it this way, he'll understand how absurd a demand this was! I'm sorry this was crude, but that's what he said, more or less. You HAVE a problem. But that is not the issue at hand--the A is. Babble. Lots of babble. I know he lurks and posts, but it wouldn't still be a bad idea to read up on Orchid's link on reverse babble. This is what he is giving you.

You need (NEED) to go to AA or IC and get yourself help. You sound like such a strong woman with her head screwed on--this is only hampering you, your kids, your M--YOU. Except for this. Don't use this as a crutch, an escape. You are better than that and you know it.

Stick to your guns: DEMAND NC--it's the ONLY way for your M to recover.

Private? He thinks his A is private?!?! No, your M should be private! And he blew that cover off! Why is he so concerned with protecting her over you and your family? Again, I ask, WTF?!?!?

As my Dad's favorite saying went, "[censored] or get off the pot!" (Or whore, in this case.)

I'm sorry for being this direct--I'm not usually like this--really. Especially me being the FWH.

And, no: you didn't bring him here too early. He just needs to decide what he wants in his life: a crack-toting whore who he has ABSOLUTELY NO FUTURE WITH, or you and your kids, where there is work ahead of you, but the rewards will be reaped. THERE IS NO BOTH!

Keep posting here, restarting. I really (sincerely) hope your H does too. And, go get yourself some help: that much, YOU *CAN* control.

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>