Bob Pure, mine was the same. Realize that in time, those strong emotions will fade, and you will be grateful and thankful for it. You have every right to feel how you feel! They are YOUR feelings. Don't apologize for them.

Just don't ACT on them . . . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Time is the greatest healer.

Spidey

Bob,

Why I said what I said was because I think if you can forgive him, the quicker you do, the quicker your own recovery is. Essentially, this guy still has a power over your life and I know you don't want that. Now, don't get me wrong, mine does too, I'm just trying to give some advice here Bob. Believe me, us men have the same propensity of hatred in us, thus God tells us...don't mistake a rather lowly demeanor in my posts as me not thinking those thoughts that you are voicing...I know sometimes we need to vent, but I also wonder how much venting is 'appropriate', in the sense of are you letting you heart lead your mind, or are you doing what you know, not what you feel.

So, I try to not explore those avenues of thought that you are expressing. Maybe your method is actually healthier, maybe mine...who knows. However, I did go over my anger about OM at one point, and why go over it again?

Bob:

Penny Tupy won't even let me use the name "Rat Meat" or even just the initials "RM" on saveyourmarriagecentral.com. Reason is that everybody deserves 2 be treated with respect, even OP.
And certainly, OP who make the effort 2 right their wrongs, like Hope4future, KiwiJ, and many others that you know, are most likely 2 feel encouraged 2 do right if they're treated with respect, even if it's only for the order they put their shoes on in the morning, at this point.

Something 2 think about.

Calories man. Calories.

-ol' 2long

Bob, every OP is different. But your guy has and is seemingly getting his due as is mine. Karma, God, Fate, Justice whatever you want to call it life does balance out. Don't be so blinded by this hatred that you lose sight of the second chance you have.Even if that is only the chance to walk away. 1 month ago that was not your choice. Take a deep breath and a GOOD look at those kids. You don't want to be anywhere else. So stop focusing on where OM is. He is as irrelevant as he as always been.

And to add to the short list of former WS's who have seen the light, I would like to add the names; Jen Brown, 2ofAKind, Finally Learning, KiwiJ, Sincere1 and ATrueHeart. I have learned as much from these friends as from any others on this forum. Bob, begin with the end in mind. If you want to heal your M, OM has absolutely no place; right? So stop giving him power. I'm not trying to oversimply a very difficult time but please stay focused on the goal.

Sorry to threadjack.

Eggwalker, I believe Jen Brown was a BS if memory serves. I just think she'd be livid if she was called a WS. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Double Post.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ October 11, 2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Binder ]</small>

Hee hee, Eggwalker. Sounds like a Native American name. Eggwalker . . . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Bob, did you ever watch the tv show 'Brimstone' with Peter Norton? It is basically about a cop whose W gets raped in 1982 by a sexual predator with a long criminal record, and a few months later he tracks him down and kills him. The cop dies a few months later and is sent to Hell. To make a long story short, he returns to Earth to capture and return some souls that escaped from Hell. In one episode he is talking with a preacher and the issue of his W rapist, whom he killed, comes up:

Priest: Can I ask you a personal question?

Cop: Sure father, go ahead.

Priest: When you killed the man who raped your wife, did you enjoy it?

Cop: Yes father, I enjoyed it.

Priest: THAT is what damned you to Hell.

Our enjoyment in harming another human beign, no matter what the circumstances, is what damns us all.

TMCM and all, I know that hating people for whatever reason is not a behaviour God wants us to adopt.

However ,denying my hatred is lying. By admitting it here I feel I can express my feelings without acting upon them.

I have said elsewhere that it is BEST for my M recovery if OM and his GF ALSO recover. That is what has stayed my hand from reporting OM to the various authorities for his counterfeiting, illegal cable box sales etc etc. let alone physically damaging him.

I will not pretend I am sad at his life being cr@p, and that too is an unGodly behaviour. His catalysing of unGodly behaviours in myself is just another way his moral filth has polluted my family's life.

It is my deepest instinct to defend my family and he has threatened it. Were it a Wil animal that posed the same threat I would've killed it by now.

The same time that I hope will heal our M may also heal my hatred towards this trash. I pray for that anyway.

And 2long, I think that offering everyone respect is poliically correct nonsense. OM is a scumbag, respect needs to be earned IMO. It cheapens respect if it is given too freely.

Anyway I can actually feel myself using up too many cycles on this loser. I only pray that my FWW will wake up and see the facts soon so she will lose her 'respect' for him too.

* edited - All its not OPs pr se I have hatred for, it is MY OM. Many or most OPs on here seem to be good people who did a bad thing and worked to put it right. My OM is a bad person whose attack on my M was ust another outworking of his evil. He is a bad person who did many bad things. I'd hate him even if he hadn't had an A with my FWW. ( she was to blame too, but HE is the serial womaniser with all the talk and techniques..)

<small>[ October 11, 2004, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I only pray that my FWW will wake up and see the facts soon so she will lose her 'respect' for him too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She will, Bob. It is part of the process. AND, once my H started seeing the OW for who she is, my intense emotions began to fade. In the beginning, it was as if I had to constantly show him, remind him, PROVE to him that she is less than me (morally, ethically, blah blah blah). BUT, he saw it all in his own time. It had to be him seeing it. I could talk about her till the cows came home (and most of them did, I talked so much for so long about it) . . . until he saw it all for himself, it was a waste of my time.

And please don't let ForeverHers hear you telling someone that respecting everyone is bull-pucky! That is how Christ loved us all, it is how we should all strive to be. Just because you are not there yet, does not mean it is poliically correct nonsense.

You sure did have a lot more care and compassion for the OM before your wife came back. Your tone has changed toward him. Your attitude seems to have changed from an easy-going, hurting man, to a judgemental "judge and jury" of this OM's eternal soul.

I'm not "cyber yelling" at you, I am not upset. I have just noticed this from your recent posts, compared to your past posts, and I'm pointing out my observation to you.

Peace

Spidey

Bob, Spidey is right. For quite a while my H couldn't tolerate my OW bashing. He told me when I bashed her it was like I was bashing him because he did the dirty deed too. Also, by admitting she was a manipulative predator it would be admitting that this wonderful, genuine love actually wasn't so great. Which made him feel pretty darn loserish. In time he has come to see her in a very different light.

Now that I have said that Bob, I can identify with you greatly. As I keep saying, I have nothing against any of my FWS MB buddies who have helped me immensely here. It is my own personal FWH and my own personal OW that I have a problem with. FWH isn't so bad anymore. And as I wrote, I think on this thread, I am not cussing OW out half as much as I used to on a daily basis. So improvement is being made. Although H and I passed the bar she hangs out at tonight which sure triggered me to the times H was there with her. Which leads me to my revenge fantasy. Bob, since I need a big guy to go to OW's favorite bar with for intimidation purposes, and SD unfortunately has bowed out of my fantasy, well maybe you and FWW can stop here after your NY trip. That was you who said you were going to NY, wasn't it? And you are a big guy, aren't you? Then I would be happy to fly to England and drive your OM crazy by verbally pummelling him, since you can't. If you can't fulfill my fantasy I'll just have to wait for SD to give me Guito's name and number. CV

Binder:

FYI:

"I believe Jen Brown was a BS if memory serves. I just think she'd be livid if she was called a WS. Now back to your regularly scheduled program."

I was on here the day that Jen first came 2 MB 2 years ago. She was the WS, but her si2ation was a bit complicated. She had 2 ONSs with her xH's best friend, with HIM listening outside the door BOTH TIMES. It didn't really come out fully until after the DV that her xH had had 2 EAs and at least one PA during the year+ that they were separated.

In the end, I think her H set her up because he was behaving inappropriately himself, and it was his goofy means of justifying his behavior.

-ol' 2long

Spidey, I am in no way equipped to go into a theological debate here ! ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) but Jesus LOVES us all, I haven't seen "respect" in scripture.

Respect in MY definition is to hold someone in esteem: to hold in deferential regard. How can I do that of OM when every new revelation I get about him tarnishes his character further ?

Just after D-day I spoke with OM and he arrogantly offered me marriage advice, and told me I must tolerate FWW and him continuing to see each other at karate events.He also promised NC which he immediately violated.

I was so frightened and broken at that time I didn't know what to think.

I got stronger, exposed him, spoke with his GF and found out what a scumbag he has been to her,caught snippets from my FWW and GF in subsequent conversations and any shred of deferral I may have felt for him four months ago is long gone.

I am not able to respect any man with his attributes and behaviours. With God's help I may love him one day, as Christ loves, but respect as the temporal concept I just described ? no.

I respect his GF very much. Any staying of my hand and pen is entirely due to my respect for her.

I will concentrate on rebuilding my respect and love for my FWW rather than wasting my effort on OM.

Bob, I guess the type of respect I was talking about was the fact that OM is indeed a PERSON, not a wild animal. For all of the evil you see in him, your FWW sees in herself.

The faster you heal your feelings of hatred for the OM, the faster your FWW will heal her feelings of hatred for herself.

I certainly don't mean respect the OM, as in esteem him. But, you give him so much power by the way you describe him. He is obviously a lost, broken man, who never learned - for whatever reason - how to function in a healthy relationship. Pity is what he deserves. He will never have a happy M. You will soon, if you keep working as hard as you have been up until now. You have everything. He has nothing.

Spidey

You have everything. He has nothing.

This is simple revelation to me. It is true. I cannot destroy him further, he is already destroyed. He has nothing, it is true.

hmmmm. My hatred is almost wasted on him. He is beneath hatred, he offers me no threat at all. Pitying a man is almost worse than hating him.

Thanks ss.

Eggs and 2long,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She had 2 ONSs with her xH's best friend, with HIM listening outside the door BOTH TIMES. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She did wha...! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sorry, I'll have to defer to your seniority here.

I had no idea. When I got here that obviously was all history and not brought up.

Sorry for the additional interruption.

Jeepers, a guy couldn't make this stuff up.

Binder, in reference to Jen Brown you said; "she did what". Jen was a joy while she was here. Immediately remorseful, introspective and eager to repair her M. The more appropriate question is "HE did what". She had a H who pretty much set her up to justify his behavior. While 2long's description is bried it is dead accurate. He H threw her under the bus. That did not become obvious until much later when his relationships started to surface. That is more dispicable than most of what I have seen from WS's.

Obviously you simply weren't here at the beginning and I understand that. But having said that, please realize things are never what they appear. In my own sitch, you might seem to have the opinion I should throw my W to the curb. Sort of strap on the balls and do the manly thing. Well please understand my W stayed with me in an apartment for 9 years while I gambled away paycheck after paycheck. I don't presume to know how you interpret my situation but I just want to give you a little more info so you can understand why things may not be as they appear. Of course nothing I have done justifies what W is presently doing. Simply; all in the name of love.

WOE,

Or should I say… whoa!

I sorta feel like that guy wandering around the party, drink in hand, catching only snippets of the conversation and feeling compelled to chime in. But since you have now responded to me directly I feel I can safely intrude.

Ahem,

The “she did wha” comment was simply to convey the surprise I felt at the revelation regarding Jen Brown’s situation. Though I’m obviously not as well acquainted with her scenario as you or 2Long, I too felt very positive about her during the few and brief exchanges we had on this board. She’s not only a Canuck like me, but she even resides in the same city. I feel a sense of kinship with her if only for geographical reasons.

So don’t misconstrue my comments as passing judgment on her. I’m not. I will comment on her actions though and state that I cannot think of a scenario that would make her any less culpable in regards to having a PA. Not judging her, judging her actions. It also doesn’t mean I wouldn’t support her in repairing her marriage…if she still had one.

Regarding your sitch; I know your comment wasn’t assuming you know what my opinion might be, but rather how I might think not knowing the background. I also will not pass judgment on your W, but certainly can judge her act of infidelity. I honestly don’t know what I would do in your shoes. If someone told me a year ago that after what my W had done I would give her a chance, I would have said they were completely mad, yet here I am.

I don’t think it takes “balls” to throw ones mate to the curb, nor to stay with them and work it out. That level of testicular fortitude is best defined by fear. If one is too scared to do what they want or need to do their actions are based on cowardice. Courage is shown by achieving your goals, in this case whether reconciliation or separation, in spite of your fear.

Binder, first I'm glad you came back. I honestly didn't remember your story but was a bit taken back with the "Eggwalker" comment. I now understand your position much better. First I am fairly defensive about Jen anyway because I was extremely impressed with her efforts to fix things. I took my family to Toronto a couple of years ago and we sailed around Lake Ontario and caught a Blue Jays game. A very nice city. I'm down here in Philadelphia which has some bright spots as well.

Anyway this has been a lively thread and it really got me thinking about the forgiveness/revenge thing. It really is a personal choice as you have stated. I have absolutely been kicked in the teeth from time to time here. So those beatings aren't only for the WS's. Today I spent the afternoon with a friend who is contemplating leaving his W for his lover. He told me he would have left immediately had his W ever cheated on him. Like it was a macho thing that must be done. As much as that hurts and is insulting I told him no matter what happens I would never regret one day that I stayed trying to repair my M. It is what I believe in. Nothing to do with balls just following my heart. I think that most of my friends and family are amazed that I am still with my W. Even MIL said as much. But I can honestly say that there is still no one I would rather be with. We get drunk at bars and hang on eachother like teenagers so I know there is still lots of $$$$$$$$$ in our LB's.

I don't know where you're at in your own situation but would encourage you to give it your all and then some. That takes balls. Quitting is easy. Good luck in your struggle.