Happy Birthday! I think you did just fine, but he is going to have to prove his change of heart with actions.

I think a no contact letter is essential.

Originally posted by k72172:

I hope I haven't done too much damage.

~WHACK~ with a 2X4 *thwach-thwack*

whathtehellareyoutalkingabout????

What "damage" have YOU done by standing up for marriage, fidelity, honesty, and common sense?????

Are you perfect? NO!
Are you purposely inflicting "damage" ... NO!

I am waiting for an answer about this so-called DAMAGE you have done... lay it on me.... support this statement (and it better be good too)


I guess I'm hoping to lead him in the right direction, and make him feel like he is a good person, and the love of my life.

"Make him feel" is impossible.
Not in your power.
Your H will feel like a good person when he believes he is a good person based on his actions.
H's guilt is necessary and desirable. It's his guilt to use hopefully to make corrective actions. Your H's guilt is not yours to manage.
Come up with a different watermark you can use to measure your success or failure.... because you have just set yourself up to do the impossible.

~~God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I can.
And the wisdom to know the difference.~~

Pep (the mean and terrible)

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

OUCH, PEP!!!!

Going to be picking out those splinters for a while!

What I mean to say, is that I hope to positively reinforce the good things that I KNOW WH IS!

I don't want to squash any new and important feelings he has for his effort as they emerge.

I think that by laying heavy demands on him so soon, the pressure on him may be too great. I did not want to damage his enthusiasm for coming back home.

I definitely KNOW that I cannot make him feel or do anything. I also believe that I can stand on my own, and take care of myself without his help. I DO think he needs to appreciate that in me.

He said he gave up a good relationship (with OW) to come back to me because he realized just how much he really does love me. And other than the fact that this statement made me want to b!tch slap him, I know he IS trying.

So, I know he is going to go thru withdrawl. I know it's going to be hard.

And, YES! He does have a lot to prove to me. I want him to go thru withdrawl with a sense of the GOOD things that await him with me.

My plan is to Plan A. When the time comes, he WILL have a lot to prove. Right now, I want him to prove that he CAN make it thru withdrawl without contact with OW.

ANY MORE 2X4'S? COME ON, LET ME HAVE IT!!!!

This is a learning situation for ME, too!!!!

K

K,

I think you are right on track!!!!Hey, you are not getting "older" you are actually "getting better"!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You have all within yourself now!!!

hugs
bb

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: blondblossom ]</small>

It seems to me that the key question here is:

"What's OUR plan for making sure that OUR marriage gets healthy?"

Not:

"What are YOU going to do to make sure that this, that, or the other thing happens?"

OUR plan may well have different parts that each of you impleemnt; that's absolutely fine and appropriate. You both need to be working on building it, though.

He gave up a good R with OW? K, can I slap him too? In fact, just let me slap the crap out of him, that way you won't have to deplete his little love bank?

Actually I wanted to respond to another thread you started about the "LOVE" the WS and OP think they share. Their A is sooooo wonderful they lie, cheat, betray the very people who they love and who love them. The OP is soooo wonderful he/she encourages the WS to be their worst possible selves. Encourages them to abandon their S and children. Yep, that sounds like a great R and true love. I often told my H that if what he had with OW was such a LOVE, he could have it. I wasn't jealous at all.

Anyway, hope your H doesn't take too long to unfog. CV

CV55....

Yes, come on over and feel free to slap the crap out of WH! He needs something to knock some sense into his head!

WH does seem kind of volatile right now. Going from nice and wanting to please me, to contradicting himself in the next sentence. And being very nice, to being very angry in the same sentence!

My honest feelings are that this won't last. WH has too many things to work on in himself. And, he may choose the path of least resistence.

I'm sure that if he went to OW right now, it would be "Poor baby, everyone is so mean to you. I will make it all better." Path of least resistence right there.

Working things out may be too hard for him.

The first time he broke up with her (which lasted for 24 hours), he told me "I love her! I LOVE HER!" Those words knocked the wind right out of me! Now his "I left a GOOD relationship for you!" was another slap in the face.

I feel like he thinks he's doing me a BIG favor.

So, Plan A? See how he goes thru withdrawl? See if he CAN go thru withdrawl?

Judging from the last breakup, I could tell simply from his attitude that he had started contact with OW, and when it started. So, my "feelers" are on high alert.

K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong> [b]

I don't want to squash any new and important feelings he has for his effort as they emerge.

I think that by laying heavy demands on him so soon, the pressure on him may be too great. I did not want to damage his enthusiasm for coming back home.


K </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it is too much pressure to send the OW a no contact letter and demonstrate that he is being trustworthy, then it is "too much pressure" for you to take him back, K.

It is not supposed to be easy to comply with your Plan B letter but that is what is absolutely necessary for your protection. If you settle for less or allow him to "take his time," he will give you less and "take his time." Is that what you want? Are you going to settle for crumbs again, K? Haven't we been through this before?

For some strange reason you seem to think that you are the bad guy for protecting yourself from him and he is your victim because you don't want him to harm you anymore. Isn't that a little backwards, K?

The last time you settled for crumbs and ended up with nothing. Are you getting the cake this time around or are you getting more crumbs designed to keep you on the string while he resumes his affair?

K, if he is really serious about resuming his marriage he will talk the talk. If he is not, he will resist you every step of the way. If he is not willing to send a sincere no contact letter, then I assure you the affair is not done and he is not sincere.

Originally posted by k72172:
What I mean to say, is that I hope to positively reinforce the good things that I KNOW WH IS!

1. Are you talking about what the WH as-is right now, today?
2. Are you talking about the WH as he was in the past?
3. Are you talking about what you wish WH might be in the future?

Reinforce what good things exactly? Please make this clear to us on MB, because if you cannot "reinforce" here and make it very clear and understandable, trust me, your WH won't know what you are talking about.

Pep

K -

I have to agree with Mel & Pepper.

Please, take it from me, one who has been with more losers than I care to admit.

Make him walk the walk! He deserves this from you as much as you deserve it from him.

I had two great loves in my life now, both cheated on me. They both could have been more, if I could have been the strong woman they needed to become a NORMAL, DECENT, MEN WHO WERE CAPABLE OF COMMITING!

I blew it with my daughters dad because I was weaker than he. I'm not going to blow it this time. How about you K.

You are one of the most likeable, lovable open women on this board. We just want you to have the best chance and to stay strong.

And you know K, becoming that strong woman may not be enough but the point is, you have it in you. Don't let him take it away.

We don't want to see you hurt again.

Weaver

Hello....

Back now from my Birthday jaunt to see Riverdance Show. It was great!

WH sent me a dozen long stemmed red roses for my birthday. Very nice.

Now, down to business.

What I meant about reinforcing to good things that WH is, means that I want to reinforce the good qualities that I know are hiding down deep inside him - his honesty, and his integrity. These are some of the things that I have learned from him in the past. Along with a real compassion for people who need help. Kindness.

I have in no way relaxed my boundaries. I already told WH that if he started contact with OW again, that our marriage was over. Period.

I spoke with him this evening on the phone, and he told me all the things he was doing to prevent contact with OW. So he is really trying.

I listened, and he seemed to really open up....before I got out into a no service area. He spend the evening with a good friend (R, who went diving with him last weekend. His wife L is my very good "harda$$ friend).

I just want him to feel like he CAN come home, and that it's not going to be a brawl everyday.

After I backed off my hard line with him Wednesday night, I did tell him that all of these things were going to have to be discussed at some point. They could not be forgotten, or swept under the rug.

I'm not giving up my new found strength, self esteem, and my right to feel safe, and have honesty and openness in our M.

We need to start over with OUR relationship.

If he does not meet my conditions of reconciliation (send a NC letter, return cell phones, be 100% committed to the recovery of our marriage), I have no problem sending him packing.

I hope WH appreciates these things about me. My resolve has not changed, my tactic has.

I feel he has demonstrated REAL earnestness to get our M back together.

I don't want to harbor any self-fulfilling prophesies at this point.

BABY STEPS. EYES OPEN. FEELERS OUT.

K

Hi K,

good to hear that your evening was good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think you are doing the right thing and I understand you completely.

Have you been able to speak with SH about your situation?? I'm more than sure that he'll be able to give you important info on how to do this "with a plan" and what "mistakes" you can avoid in your situation right now.

I myself believe that Plan A is the right thing right now.
It's important not to "sweep things under the rug" and yet not to "pressure & demand".

This will go in little steps, slowly but surely.
But I'm more than sure that you know your husband the best and you know "how he reacts" to certain situations. Therefore "keep your ears and eyes" open and listen to your "intuition".

Make discussions "easy-going & comfortable" and still "stick to your beliefs".
He's going to "look up to you & respect" you strength, someday, that's for sure.

Show him the "wonderfull and confident K" that you have become and yet show him that you "need him too".

Has he discussed "when" he wants to come home???
How was your reaction to this or what are your plans for this??

take care
bb

Hi K,
I liked this one, so I thought I'd just send it to you. It makes alot of sence, doesn't it. You might want to print it out and read it when you feel unmotivated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If You're Ever...
If you're ever going to do the things you wish to do, now is the time to start. If you're ever going to become the person you know you can become, now is the time to do it. If you're ever going to fulfill the great and wonderful possibilities that are surely yours, now is the moment to begin in earnest.

A full and rich life is yours for the making, but it won't just be handed to you, no matter who you are. Your life, your fulfillment, requires your active and committed participation. And now is the time for that to happen. The past is long gone and the future is yet unavailable to you. Now is when you can make a difference.

What are your dreams, your hopes, your ambitions? Now is the time to follow them with the passion that you know you have. Now is the time for action, for commitment, for purpose. Putting it off until later will only cheat you out of what you could have become. Do it, be it, live it now. It's the grandest opportunity you could ever imagine.



take care
bb

K, why wasn't he with you last evening? I thought he had moved home?

K, I have enjoyed slapping many a WS via cyberspace. I think it's been my way of not smacking the heck out of my own FWS.

The length of your H's A was longer than mine. My H's was about 9 months EA, I think 7-8 months PA. H's ongoing amnesia prevents me from knowing exactly when the PA began. All I can say is that my H was IN-LOOOOOVVVVE! PUKE! After d-day I found an e-mail he wrote to his former shrink when he was trying to decide if he should leave me. He said something like, "OW and I have had a really strong R for 8 months now." If your H is anything like mine, the in-love was about the fantasy that he could have the perfect R, meaning; no conflict, undying admiration, in his words someone at his "beck and call" constantly, all his needs met, etc. It's not the person, it is the fantasy, which includes that they are so darn wonderful the OW just can't help meeting all their needs. Is your OW younger? Ours was, and I'm sure that stroked my H's ego, along with other things.

I agree with Pep and Melodie also. You can tell your H you love him, and because of your love, are willing to do the work to recover your M. You are not willing to have him "F" you over one more time. You seem to be clear on this.

I'd be curious from some of the old timers how you would deal with his withdrawal if he isn't living with you. I totally understand how you wouldn't want to rush into him living back home. However, speaking from my experience, helping my H get through his withdrawal was really hard. He would call me at least several times a day just so he wouldn't call her. He literally told me he wanted to call her "every minute of every day." As I may have told you he also woke up with panic attacks almost nightly. That wasn't just about her, but she was in the mix. He did fold within a month of NC and saw her in person once for "closure", and then called her about every other day for 2 weeks. He finally was so guilt ridden he told me. That is when the real withdrawal began. I am in the mental health field. At that point I suggested he contact his psychiatrist. My H is on Wellbutrin, but I wondered if he needed to up his dose. I was afraid he'd fold just because of the extreme anxiety symptoms he was having. He did talk to his psych. who did adjust his meds, which helped greatly.

Sorry, I'm writing too much. As you said, one step at a time. I just know withdrawal is hard, and your H will need your help to get through it if he's having difficulty. Just realize it has nothing to do with love, but the extreme addiction. Hang in there! CV

What helped tone down my harshness with my FWH was asking him "What will you do to help protect me from feeling hurt?" I asked this over again in a very soft manner.

I thought your H sent a NC letter to OW and already returned the cell phones. I suppose he didn't make a copy of the letter he sent to OW.

My H's four yr. A ended late May 1998 after he had moved in with OW and stayed for a little over a month or two. That was enough for reality to set in. He wanted to move home. I wouldn't agree to that so instead he stayed with his business partner and his W for a couple of months.

We had had a couple of separations then false recoveries so I wanted to know that he was sure this time by showing me by his actions. He set up his own appt. for IC. He read the books. He ended all friendships with anyone that aided the A. He joined the church choir his partner lead. We basically started from scratch again. About a year later we renewed our vows.

What he still didn't understand was what he needed to avoid doing to not allow himself to get into another A, which he did again in May of 2002, four years after the last one ended. I suspected it was with the same OW as before...but it wasn't!

That had to do with bounderies and learning to not allow himself to start friendships with women. Which is what he did thus having another A that lasted 8 months during that time he became increasingly distant and would get angry with me, criticize me out of the blue. We are approaching two years since the D-day of that last A. I thought he should have known better but he wasn't there yet.

We went to several sessions with a Therapist. He got a clearer idea of the meaning of commitment. MB helped him/us understand what is unacceptable about opposite sex friendships. My H was always a very friendly flirt. His ego was really stroked by female admiration. He no longer feels he has a right to the kind of privacy he used to enjoy. We have learned how to better meet each others EN's.

So far, so good. I think he gets it this time.
I know he knows better this time and I don't plan on reconciling if he ever has another A. There will be no excuse that will be good enough.

I hope that you are really on the road to real recovery this time too. Trust that you will know if this isn't real. You should not feel like you are on eggshells with him; that he is too fragile.

When my H was really commited to recovery he had the kind of resolve necessary to make it through withdrawal to recovery. You have already made improvements in yourself and learned your part in state of your marriage. Don't let yourself revert to your pre-A behavior.

If you can go through the MB program/materials together that can help. They have you start with either HNHN or Love Busters depending on what is the most important need at the time you begin recovery. Can you do a MB Weekend? We did about 3 months after we started recovery. That may help you get off on the right start.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Thanks to you all for your replies.

WH says he needs to be out of his apartment by the 15th of this month. I am waiting to see if he waffles on this. Somehow, I don't think he will.

He also had his wedding ring on when I got home last night. I am pretty sure he didn't wear it most of the time before.

WH didn't go with us last night because the plans were made before he decided to come home. He went out with some of his friends here in town last night. First time he has done that in a long, long time.

I'm going slowly on this. I know there will be bumps in the road. But I want to show him my best self. Make plans to do lots together within the following weekends.

We are getting ready to take off and go to town now, so I will check in later.

Thanks again, for your replies. They are like my lifeline right now. I do plan to talk to SH here within the next week.

K

Hi K,

anything "new" going on??? I'm just wondering............ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

bb

Hi bb....

Nothing really new going on. We have been keeping busy, and I know that helps WH.

Yesterday, we went to town, and did some shopping. It was fun.

At one point, WH was talking about going to see a concert at a dinner theater. WH was talking about the musicians, etc.

I asked him who he went with, and he told me he went with OW. Even though it felt like I had just been dealt a physical blow, I told WH "thank you for being honest with me."

He grabbed my hand and held it real tight for several minutes. He said "I'm really trying. This is really hard for me."

We talked a little about NC with OW. I asked him if he had any plans what he would do if OW tried to contact him. He said he hadn't thought about that.

I very kindly told him that if he did have contact with her, that he would start withdrawl all over again. That I know this is all very hard for him, but that if he could be strong for 3 or 4 weeks, it would get easier.

Other than snooping, I don't know how to find out if he calls her. I don't really want to do that.

I am hoping to be able to ask him if he will tell me if she tries to contact him when the time is right, so it doesn't sound like a demand.

Other than that, we've had lots of SF (not to be crude - I know this is one of his most important EN's), and I'm Plan A'ing my hinney off. And keeping busy doing fun things.

I hope to talk to Steve H this week.

How are you doing? Thanks for your concern. I really appreciate it.

This is all pretty stressful for me.

K