I didnt want to threadjack OG's thread so I thougth I'd start a new one here! You said to OG

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Meanwhile,my WH is still living at home,making my life he** and if that wasn't bad enough,I no longer have my husband to help me through this difficult time.Again,a big let down from my colossal failure of a husband.

This is what I would do (so take this with a grain of salt or *pepper*)

I would call up OW and beg her to come take WH home with her. Let OW deal with him full time. I'd say; "Please, PLEASE, come get WH and take him off my hands."

When I have something in my house that stinks and is only making me angry or sad, I get it out as fast as possible.

I wonder what would happen if you did this????

Pep

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My dad has only days/weeks to live after battling his cancer for 2 years. I swore I wouldn't kick WH out again until he file for DV, which he says he wont do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It only wreaks havoc on the children when he is gone anyway. We were doing very well for a while, but then BAM, right back to square one. I honestly dont think this will ever work! He just cant let go of OW, but yet he cant let go of me either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I know cake eater.

WH is sleeping in guest room right now. I am wondering if I kick him out, how will I cope when my daddy finally does pass. I wont have ANYONE here! WH is (sort of) a comfort to me at times.

I am filling out paperwork for a nanny for when the time does come to kick him out I will at least have full time help and not have to rely on him for ANYTHING!

I spoke with OW XBF yesterday! OH BOY, did that burst HER bubble. She was PISSED! she called me screaming and yelling! like I needed this at this point. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Told WH to tell her never to dial my number again. She acts like she has the "right" to call him etc...THEN, WH spoke with OW XBF! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> OH BOY! She paged him, I called her back, asked her what she was paging him for she says "because I did, where is he" ummm, he's standing right here NEXT TO ME!!! "let me talk to him" like she has the "right"! She said she wasn't going to do this anymore! she couldn't believe that WH spoke with OW XBF! She didn't want to see WH anymore! laddy daddy da! whatever!

I did find out that she was having SF with XBF in the month that she concieved! I spoke with OW XBF again and she called him 5 times while I was on the phone with him. She was stewin over there! Told XBF that WH was probably on the line listening in on the conversationb! hmmmm, since XBF called me, how is that possible! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

anyway, bottom line is her bubble is bursting and she has no control! In the meantime, I dont know if I can ever forgive him for what he is doing to me now. It is obvious now that he wants her! He knows he cant spend the rest of his life with her, but he cant let her go.

Divorce busters does not recommend divorce. I am not good at Plan B! But I am to a point that i have no love for the man. He is absolutely sadistic! Anyway, he is now saying he will not go to counceling today! WHATEVER!

<small>[ October 09, 2004, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

Wow, what an interesting turn of events. Did OWxBF just call you out of the blue? This makes it very possible that OW's baby isn't your H's. Doesn't that just bug him a little? Doesn't that make your H feel like he may have been used...taken for a fool?

This should be even more reason for your WH to have even less to do with her until the baby is born and there is proof of his paternity. What a sick puppy he is...it seems pretty pathetic. (DJ-I know.)I can see why you are losing love and respect for him.

Hi Trix! It is just like Jerry Springer around here! I called OWxBF myself! She then called XBF herself and told him to stay out of her business...hummm, I'm the one who called HIM...Then she calls me and tells ME to not call him. hmmmm, who is SHE telling ME who I can call...it's ok for HER to call my H! she was a B on the phone!

WH is stewing now. He is really upset, feels like he has been played a fool. Of course OW and WH are both saying that xBF is lying...yea right. no, THEY are the ones who lie. Sooo, now WH has said he is oging to confront her, of course she will lie and say xBF lied and she hasn't slept with him, bla bla bla.

WH isn't going to counceling. he said he has to fix himself first. He said maybe deep down inside that he doens't want to fix this marriage and that is why he is doing this to me. He says I am such a good person and soooo strong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He cant live with what he has done to me. I have begged him to leave me. He wont. I have told him to just go online and file for divorce. He wont. He just wont leave me.

I cant live in this turmoil anymore. I know that. I have to get that nanny in here NOW. Anyone know of a good nationwide agency? Please let me know! thanks

Mom, I followed your last thread, but just didn't know if I had anything different to say to you than I've already said. First of all, I am so sorry for what you are going through with your dad dying. I went through that the summer of 03, while H was having his A. The difference is I didn't know it. I do know what it's like to go through the dying and death of a loved one without the support of your husband.

Mom, please forgive me for what I am about to say. You know we really did start out on MB at the same time. Both of our H's were posting in their fogged out state at the same time. Somehow my H managed to have the resolve to get away from his "B", and yours didn't. As much of a predator as H's OW was, I also was fortunate that she did not pursue him like your H's OW did. Your OW is the monster of all OWs. Anyway Mom, I so strongly believe you deserve so much more than your H. IF there is a chance for you and he to recover I believe he will need to seriously earn his way back into your life. What has he done to deserve you? What has he done to deserve the name "dad"? I think what he deserves is a good dose of OW.

You know mom, lately I've written on here my great revenge fantasy that I used to have about my H. That was that he would have ended up with OW. I knew he would have been miserable. You know what, if your H and OW live together, not only will he be miserable, but she will be too. They are two of the sickest, most selfish people I have ever witnessed.

OMG Mom, I just realized something. I swear to God, I dreamt about your H last night. I really did. In fact I told my H about it this morning. I can't remember the details except that I was REALLY pissed off at him. Isn't that strange?

Mom, I've been recommending a little book to my clients and have mentioned it on here also. It's called "Who Moved My Cheese". It's very short, but is very insightful about making changes in our life. Your H is not going to change, so it eventually will be up to you to change. All I wish for you is the wonderful life you deserve. I'm sending HUGS nad prayers to you Mom. Right now forget about your H and just concentrate on being with your beautiful father. Don't allow your H's sickness to rob you of one moment with him. God Bless! CV

Curious how you found out about him, who he was and how to contact him? Great find. Odd that your H is so quick to believe he is lying and not OW.

He seems to only see her as an innocent angel victim and he is her hero rescuer. Then he goes on to describe you as strong. Maybe he has convinced himself that you don't need him. It's interesting all the justification that goes on.

He seems so terribly foggy. You deserve none of this crap. How dare she order you not to speak to her XBF...who is she to have any say?!

Bet you never thought that your life story right now would be the stuff of the Jerry Springer show..I know that I never thought I would have thought my life could have become as surreal as it did during our ordeals.

<small>[ October 09, 2004, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

I am back to tell you all that I am really going to work on my marriage. My wife is at the point of leaving and has lined up some guys who are chomping at the bit to to step into my shoes. Ok so lets acknowledge some soon to be painfull facts.
I do not deserve my wife.
I have been cruel and selfish
I have crossed all the boundaries that constitute honesty and decency.
I have had no regard for my children
I have disrespected my wife repeatedly
I have betrayed my wife repeatedly
I have done this with no remorse whatsoever until now.
I am a liar and a cheat.
Ok there you go I already have covered the attacks so do not bother being redundant.
I love my wife
I will worship the ground she walks on to earn back her love and pray for her trust and respect someday. It starts now. I have told OW in front of my wife. I will work out the details of how I will be a father to a child on the way which is probably mine. I will own up to that. I will not let OW back into my life using this child as a pretext. I will do my best not to let this affect my beautiful innocent 3 boys. Now I will go out and prove it.

Good for you, dadto3boys.

Feelings can change, but behavior is chosen.

Cherished

dad---without being secretive and hiding this other child---how exactly do you plan on it NOT effecting your kids??? your time and also money will forever be split....your kids have lost a part of you forever. you gave it away.

i pray to god you are serious this time...not even for mom, but for your boys. they really deserve better. for that matter so do you. i will pray for your family. you really need to realize you changed their lives forever, and not act as if this is something that will just work itself out. good luck, we are all praying for you and your family.

Dear Lord, please give him the strength to stop destroying his family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">dad---without being secretive and hiding this other child---how exactly do you plan on it NOT effecting your kids??? your time and also money will forever be split....your kids have lost a part of you forever. you gave it away.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It will affect them more at first. The child will be incorporated into my family and there will be a new dynamic within the family.The child will be loved and accepted, and we will all have to cope. Yes because of me. too late now to worry. It is a child, it will be a positive thing regardless of the circumstances.

Dad,
You need to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Unfortunately, you may have played your W's forgiving nature a bit more than is tolerable. Time will tell. You will need to prove you can really be the man you say you want to become again. This probably won't happen overnight.

There is absolutely no reason for you to have any contact with that OW. If and when paternity is proven then you can have all payments and contact done through your attorney and you don't have to have contact with the OC as that would be distruptive to your wife and boys lives. It is sad for the OC but unfortunately that may have to be the consequences of both your actions and those of the OW. (Didn't she originally tell you that she couldn't get pregnant? Or was that another of your or her lies?) All of the reasons for NC can be explained to the OC and your son's when they are of age. Your wife and son's shouldn't have to constantly have the reminder of your infidelity. You have already set a terrible example of your lack or honor, integrity, and stability as a Dad.

I truly hope you can rise to the occasion and be a man with the character and backbone to do the right thing and work hard to restore your family...if it isn't too late.

Through it all, I know from our own experience that your marriage can be saved and this experience can bring you closer and more commited than you ever could have imagined. A recovered M can be a truly beautiful thing. It will take lots of hard work and difficult decisions especially with the complications you've chosen to introduce into the mix.

I hope you will take the initiative and call Steve Harley. The tools are available to you both.

I only see the OC fitting into your family if you sue for sole custody and adoption with NC (or support)with the OW.

But these are only my opinions.

It all gets so messy.

I still hope the OC is not yours.

Dad -

Welcome back to marriagebuilders. Hope you will stick around awhile. I still think you and mom, and boys can have a wonderful life together.

I pray that the two of you can work this out somehow.

Well Dad, if you read my above post you know what I think of you presently. My God, I had a friggin dream about you. Your bad behavior has infilitrated my unconscious. God only knows what your wife has gone through because of your selfishness. Ok, I got that out. Sorry! I will acknowledge that it took courage, I think, for you to come here.

As I wrote in my above post, you and my H were in very similar positions when you both posted here. Truthfully my H's A may have been even longer and more intense at that point. He went through awful withdrawal. The thing is he did it. And he did it pretty much cold turkey. If he would have gone your way, and not given up the OW, I don't think it would be a stretch to think his OW could have gotten pregnant. The difference between Mom and I is that H would have been history way before that happened. And I am not a BS that could be "M"ed and live with OW's baby. I hope you really understand the love your W has in her. I hope to God you don't crush her again.

So what can you do Dad to prove your sincerity to recover from the gigantic mess you caused? Here are a few suggestions.
(1) Get yourself into IC pronto. Don't wait a second. I'm a therapist and it wouldn't surprise me if you at the very least have narcissistic tendencies. I'm being kind here. You need to get help and figure some things out.
(2) Get back in contact with Steve Harley or another expert in infidelity that Mom thinks is good. Do whatever the assignments are. Do whatever the work you need to do to MAYBE recover.
(3) Totally support Mom during this time that her father is dying. Whatever she needs, give it to her.
(4) Get out of that "F"ing nursing home job. Hopefully by now you are over thinking about the money you will lose if you give up the nursing home. Dad, you'll lose a he&& of a lot more money if your W "D"s you.
(5) Be the best dad you can be to your beautiful boys. Start making up for all the crap you've put them through. And be prepared for the family therapy they will probably need one day because of your actions.
(6) Finally, and although this should be obvious, with your track record it needs repeating. Get rid of the OW. PERIOD! Unfortunately a completely innocent child will be coming into the world because of this mess. So you will have to be in some contact with the vampire. However, you have some time before the birth to hopefully get through your withdrawal.

I am not going to apologize for being hard on you. IF Mom gives you another chance you are a very lucky man. I truly hope you can rise to the occasion. We, yes that even means pissed off me, will help you in any way to recover your M if you prove yourself deserving. Good luck. Hope you are a praying man, because I believe you'll need some help on this one. CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dadto3boys:
I am back to tell you all that I am really going to work on my marriage. {... I took out the middle part ... all "blah blah I am soooo bad.... blah"....} Now I will go out and prove it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK..... go ahead.

Prove it.

Pep

<small>[ October 09, 2004, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

it is not too late. I am just lucky to have her. Life is unfair, I should be distraught and alone, with no life to look forward to. I am just lucky. Time will become my ally. If I am transparent time will win back her trust. The OC issue is a hurdle that as I said will be dealt with. First stay the course for the remaining 4 months,of pregnancy, then paternity test then we go from there.

Originally posted by momto3boys:

"I swore I wouldn't kick WH out again until he file for DV"

I did NOT say "kick him out"... I said call OW and BEG "Please, PLEASE, come get WH and take him off my hands.".....

Why? Because this tells OW that you are ready for WH to leave, you are NOT begging him to stay with you (like he might be telling her) that if WH does NOT come to HER.... it's because WH chooses not to.

Please take care of yourself during this very painful period of changes in your life.

God bless your beloved Father.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dadto3boys:
<strong> it is not too late. I am just lucky to have her. Life is unfair, I should be distraught and alone, with no life to look forward to. I am just lucky. Time will become my ally. If I am transparent time will win back her trust. The OC issue is a hurdle that as I said will be dealt with. First stay the course for the remaining 4 months,of pregnancy, then paternity test then we go from there. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear Foggy Dad....

My brother, you are NOT seeing things clearly.

WHAT is your plan to make your marriage work?

"Stay the course".... ? Pardon me, .... HUH?

"If I am transparent time will win back her trust." .... Oh really?

Tell me YOUR plan to CHANGE YOURSELF.... not your plan to manipulate your wife!!!

SHE gets to choose if she thinks you are worth all this pain and misery you bring into her home... not you deciding what she will do in time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

WHAT are you going to DO about your dreadful need to engage in ego-stroking and manipulating the people who love you?.... which I might add... you are doing right now with this last post of yours.

Pep

Dad, welcome back. I hope you stick around -- I think you have a tremendous potential for learning, for growth, and for being the man we're all encouraging you to be.

No life path is ever easy, and yours is a very difficult mix of extremely difficult and extraordinarily blessed.

I suspect that, when your new son or daughter is born, it will change everything. I don't know how, nor do I know who will change. I do know that it's very difficult not to fall in love with a newborn. I know you will -- I know your affair partner will -- and I suspect that Mom will too. She is, after all, a mom.

As with all experiences of falling in love, there are healing ways to do it and harmful ways to do it. As you wait for your child to be born, I'd suggest that one thing you might want to think about is how this experience can be healing for you and Mom -- and for the mother of an unborn child who is probably yours.

Many will say that your affair partner should never be your concern again. In many ways I agree. However -- if you and she did indeed bring a child into this world together, then you and she must find a way to raise that child in as healthy a manner as possible -- without harming the other three children who are also your responsibility.

You know, I s'pose, that the BEST way to raise a child is with his or her parents married and together. You're probably not going to be able to do that for all of your children. So -- tough compromises ahead for you, no matter how you do it.

Think carefully -- and consider very carefully your own ethics and your own ability to be compassionate and wise. You might want to read Ethics for a New Millenium, by the Dalai Lama in the next few weeks. It is as cogent a description of ethical behavior as you'd ever like to read. I'm sure there are other works that would help you in this regard as well, and I hope others will suggest things you may want to consider.

You've got four months to build the framework for this child's birth and eventual success in life. Four months to begin to heal your marriage. Four months to begin to heal the hurts to your other children. Four months to figure out how to deal with your affair partner.

That's a lot to do in four months. But it's possible. Keep thinking, keep doing, keep centered -- and keep posting here. Everyone here, even the ones who challenge you a LOT, is rooting for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">stay the course for the remaining 4 months,of pregnancy </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stay the course ? I'm with Pep on this one.....this course is pretty rocky, unstable and inconsistent...I'd choose another.

Are you discontinuing all contact with OW ? I can't think of ONE valid reason to see her, talk to her...or even THINK of her. Not ever. By all means...at least have NC.


I truly hope this situation finds some resolve soon, no matter what that is. I can't imagine living life like this .