Okay,
So I'm an MBer right? I read and I share and I read and I share and I implement and I try to follow the suggestions and I read the bible and I try to follow the doctrine, and I do my bible studies, and I pray, and I barred opposite sex friends from my life, and I avoid taking part in anything social that might negatively impact my M, and I keep reading, and lets not mention I have a hormone amped 14 yrold D who is a trouble teen which it's been all MY responsibility to corral, and I read, and I wonder where's my reservoir of a wife? Where's this virtuous woman the bible kept talking about, and I read and it the word says I must honor my W so I do that admist my deep feelings of being taken sorely for granted, taken advantage of and basically kicked in the groin repeatedly, so I keep reading and reading and mind you I'm still dealing with my W's A with the backpack kid, who lived with his mama, whom my W accepted a M proposal from ....and I laugh to keep from throwing our wedding photo album through my big screen television, and it's getting harder and harder to read now because it's been years of this craziness, but I manage to read some more, and I cook nice meals, and I take the lead in the household, the chores, the children and then I find a great job paying like 3 times what OM made and W is happy, but I can't help but remember my W's emails to OM where she repeatedly reassured him that she didn't care how much money HE made, his ambition was enough, and so I stop reading those emails because they're gonna make me bonkers, so I read more MB posts, principles, the bible, the studies, and I confront my W last night because I need her in this M with me, I need her to help with our recovery, lets enjoy our lives, get to know each other, have great sex, cut off the tv, tell stories, I don't know ANYTHING, and she tells me after much, much talking from me...she finally tells me if it weren't for our SON she would take her own life. Okay? HMMM? First of all, I would like to think you would feel as if you were desserting your D and H as well not only you S. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Then I'm wondering why is it I'm just becoming *Privy to this information? Why do I always have to prod, and deliberate incessantly to get information about my W and her feelings. NOW I understand why she hasn't been much help during our so-called recovery, she's still in withdrawal???? Hmm, she denies contact and I check her voicemails and find nothing. She supposedly hasn't seen OM or OM's mom since...early August and its now OCTOBER and you still want to jump infront of a bus? Hmmm, the probability of any bus jumping is limited, the probability of me buying that you haven't had any contact is monumental!

I don't know what to do? I'm so tired of all of this. I keep saying it and I keep saying it, but ET want go home! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> W is not remorseful, she's indifferent, W says she's ready for recovery, but does very little to fulfill any of my EN's. The only person in our family who she pays any real attention to is our 6 year old S and he at the moment needs it the least. I have been putting up with this crap for years and I realize all I need to do to quit is to do just that; QUIT! I'm getting closer each day to the brink. If I bring up anything related to making things better or my needs its as if I just pilled a 200lb boulder to my W's back. I remember how A's start, and this is exactly how...NO EN's bing met and the other person seems aloof to your existence except as it pertains to their own needs.

Bob talked about how he's dealing with his FWW's feelings about her A and I concur:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>

I think this desire will only dissipate if/when FWW truly regrets her extramarital sex. Right now I believe she still views it as a good, enjoyable thing, but regrets the pain it caused. That kills me. SLAUGHTERS me.

If she gets to a point where she is as hurt/revolted by her infidelity as I am, we can heal and I can move on in this space. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My W is very closed off and down right cold. I'm a good man, husband and father...I don't deserve this garbage, I really and truly do not, but else can I do? Thanks for listening, any guys I tell about this will only encourage me to cheat on my W, and any ladies I tell about his who will listen are the ladies who I would cheat with! Thanks to you folks I have a place where I can say how I feel without doing anything or putting my M in harms way. Thank you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ October 09, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

Sorry you are going through this now. They say recovery is the hardest. You'll just have to continue to march. The Harley's say it takes a couple months to withdraw, but for many it is much longer than that.

I forget, is she taking anti-depressants?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Sorry you are going through this now. They say recovery is the hardest. You'll just have to continue to march. The Harley's say it takes a couple months to withdraw, but for many it is much longer than that.

I forget, is she taking anti-depressants? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Back when she was taking medication she was abusing it by stacking her dosage. I don't trust her taking her own meds. Believer this has become so painful and hard for me to deal with, a daughter about to endup in a juvenile center, and a W who's suicidle? How did my life get this dang complicated and sad? I could deal with my D's issues because she is a teenager, but my W is a grown woman who has made these choices and how expects ME to pay for them with her, whether Directly or Indirectly.

FM..... I am saying this with love .... calm down!

Your wife confessed her REAL weakness to you .... she EXPOSED her soft underbelly ... and you made it all about you.

She feels life is not worth living sometimes ... for maybe a hundred different reasons .... and you wonder why she doesn't tell you much?

Because it is a risk .... she is risking that you will see how screwed up she feels and not love her!!!

And what do you do in your mind when she becomes vulnerable to you???

You make it about you!!!

I USED TO DO THIS TOO!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

STOP it! Just STOP!

Allow your wife to be weak and not assume the responsibility for her weakness.

Allow your wife to feel sad and alone and not assume responsibility as the cause for her feelings. When you do that, you make it all about you ... and trust me, it's not all about you.

She is NOT looking for you to assume responsibility!! THAT is counter to what she wants as a response.

She wants to be held.

So shutthehellup and hold her and stroke her hair.... and just let her cry. And keep your mouth SHUT!
The woman is depressed. REALLY depressed. And YOU are not responsible as the cause, nor are you responsible for the fixing.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> FM..... I am saying this with love .... calm down!

Your wife confessed her REAL weakness to you .... she EXPOSED her soft underbelly ... and you made it all about you.

She feels life is not worth living sometimes ... for maybe a hundred different reasons .... and you wonder why she doesn't tell you much?

Because it is a risk .... she is risking that you will see how screwed up she feels and not love her!!!

And what do you do in your mind when she becomes vulnerable to you???

You make it about you!!!

I USED TO DO THIS TOO!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

STOP it! Just STOP!

Allow your wife to be weak and not assume the responsibility for her weakness.

Allow your wife to feel sad and alone and not assume responsibility as the cause for her feelings. When you do that, you make it all about you ... and trust me, it's not all about you.

She is NOT looking for you to assume responsibility!! THAT is counter to what she wants as a response.

She wants to be held.

So shutthehellup and hold her and stroke her hair.... and just let her cry. And keep your mouth SHUT!
The woman is depressed. REALLY depressed. And YOU are not responsible as the cause, nor are you responsible for the fixing.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Isn't it nice what WOMEN get to do?
I get it...so she gets to have an Affair, then she neglects me and the kids, and leave and come home and leave and come home some more and guess what? Life keeps on churning. The D is a crazed teenager who needs PARENTS. The H you abandoned is tired and has been doing all the work alone for close to a year, and now what? Pep tells me to stroke her hair? Let her cry? Forget all the troubles, forget all my own needs, forget all my own pain, and just carry more of the crap my W caused? Thats your advice? Seriously that's what's inside that great book you and Believer have been reading that defines what kind of man woman really need? I'd rather swallow raw sewage?
I made it about me? It is about me. I am her tired, hurt, neglected, H. She exposed her underbelly? PEP, come on. Thanks for making me feel better. I don't like being used and abused anymore than the next person, thank you very much. I will not try to fix it, but daggonit, how long does someone get to wallow in self loathing? I've been at this for years, just because I somehow was able to force enough pressure on OM for him to walk away doesn't make the time less excruciating for me. Okay I'm rambling and I'm wrong, but I'm tired of being hurt and neglected and sitting on my hands.

And don't tell me she didn't tell me her inner pain because she's afraid I won't love her anymore, somehow during the course of these last 2-3 years, my love for her has NOT been a major concern of hers: OM's love has been though.

Sorry, I'm not ready to feel better just yet and massage my W's feet while she still pines over the lost of OM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Pep,
Okya I had to vent...I'm better now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know I should be more supportive, that she needs me to just shut up say nothing and be strong. I hope I'm right, I hope she remembers me. I am trying so hard and right now sorry if I was praying for her to try just a little...just a tad.

Okay, time to be gentle, strong, kind and selfless.

yeeeeeeeeeeech

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep tells me to stroke her hair? Let her cry? Forget all the troubles, forget all my own needs, forget all my own pain, and just carry more of the crap my W caused? Thats your advice? Seriously that's what's inside that great book you and Believer have been reading that defines what kind of man woman really need? I'd rather swallow raw sewage?

Well,I think raw sewage isn't the answer, but you can do whatever you want.


I made it about me? It is about me.

Her depression is NOT about you.

I am her tired, hurt, neglected, H.

I know ((( hugs )))

She exposed her underbelly?

Yes, she did.... perhaps her very darkest part was shown to you.

PEP, come on. Thanks for making me feel better. I don't like being used and abused anymore than the next person, thank you very much. I will not try to fix it, but daggonit, how long does someone get to wallow in self loathing?

How long? I donno.

I've been at this for years, just because I somehow was able to force enough pressure on OM for him to walk away doesn't make the time less excruciating for me. Okay I'm rambling and I'm wrong, but I'm tired of being hurt and neglected and sitting on my hands.

What are you going to do?


And don't tell me she didn't tell me her inner pain because she's afraid I won't love her anymore, somehow during the course of these last 2-3 years, my love for her has NOT been a major concern of hers: OM's love has been though.

OK.... I will shut up.

Sorry, I'm not ready to feel better just yet and massage my W's feet while she still pines over the lost of OM.

She is pining over the loss of herself.

But.... NOW I will shut up.

YOU take care of yourself FM.

Pep ....

So what is the answer FM?

You could have walked away, you could have not let her back in the home. You could have divorced but you chose recovery.

I am picturing you as this man standing in the middle of the road, yelling at GOD to "bring it on", "come on, give it to me, give me some more"
"I can take anything you throw at me God, because I am strong, you have blessed me with broad shoulders, you have blessed my with trials... so BRING IT ON!"

Why? because you have been chosen, and your rewards will be great. Be thankful you are not your WW right now, as her pain is not the kind of pain any of us would wish for, and she can not yell at God to "bring it on".

Isn't that sad for her, FM?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>

She is pining over the loss of herself.

But.... NOW I will shut up.

YOU take care of yourself FM.

Pep .... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep,
Sometimes I feel like I am losing it. I have so much pressure. I had to vent sorry but I just couldn't handle the truth for a few moments. I wanted to hear it was okay to feel hurt, frustrated and alone. I wanted to hear that you been trying and your right FM it's not fair poor poor FM...The pull yourself up by the boot straps does work for me, but this Saturday afternoon while my D is I don't know where...LITERALLY, and my W sleeps till probably 3PM and it's just me up and tending to the home and our S and wanting so much more for my life and for my M...it gets a little hard. I'm not expecting anyone to really get it. There are worst things that can happen to us then to get hit by a bus. Thanks for your time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong> So what is the answer FM?

You could have walked away, you could have not let her back in the home. You could have divorced but you chose recovery.

I am picturing you as this man standing in the middle of the road, yelling at GOD to "bring it on", "come on, give it to me, give me some more"
"I can take anything you throw at me God, because I am strong, you have blessed me with broad shoulders, you have blessed my with trials... so BRING IT ON!"

Why? because you have been chosen, and your rewards will be great. Be thankful you are not your WW right now, as her pain is not the kind of pain any of us would wish for, and she can not yell at God to "bring it on".

Isn't that sad for her, FM? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Weaver,
I know she is truly suffering and I'm being selfish. I do feel as though I've been chosen, I do not want to let her or our C down. I don't want to fail EVERYONE. I will try to take those much needed deep breaths and find the resolve to keep on. I am the guy in the middle of the road, but the only thing I want brung on is peace. I feel like I keep getting pushed beyond my limits and then I draw a line in the sand and then life pushes me a foot beyond that and then I draw another line.

I'm going to give it to GOD. I'm also going to stop talking about what I will no longer take or withstand, this is beyond me, believe me folks if I was standing with my own legs I would have collapsed months ago.

Thanks for listening

This is where our son went. The school was a life-saver .... literally.

Pep

*link to residential treatment school for teens*

dear family---ive been in your shoes----including the troubled teen---we just finished second round of re-hab. he was also arrested---he is out of chances as far as the cops go.

it also took my husband almost 3---YES THREE---YEARS to finally start walking the walk. patience and time my friend..patience and time. hang in, vent away...but never give up!!!

FM:

I haven't followed your story as of late but after reading this thread, it appears you are still hanging in there. My thought is there hasn't been enough time since she came back home to you.

My FWW quit all contact in the middle of April and I feel like we are just getting back to a more normal routine. I trust her again, as long as there is no substantial variation to her routine. Our intimacy is back and going strong and out communication is better than I can remember. We actually talk about her affair in a matter of fact point of view. The pain has subsided but the affair converstaions cause me some discomfort. She needs to talk and I am the only one she can talk to about the affair.

She now admits her OM had some real selfish issues and she was not able to see it clearly back in the fog days. She said without my knowledge and wisdom (Thank you MB and to all on the board who taught me) to know what to do to break her of the affair, she feels we wouldn't be togther today.

My FWW esteem is still very low. She says she sees herself on the inside as a four on a ten scale. I told her she must forgive herself and her self esteem will grow back in time. The WS's can never escape the damage they did during their affairs. She says she has no intention or interest in ever talking to or seeing the OM again. She has even become bitter towards him due to the outcome of so many happenings. The OM was pushing hard to get her to leave me and kids so he could have her full time. He sounds like a real nice guy!!

Don't give up FM, you need to suffer a few more mnths before the affair-devil releases you and allows you to relax and be normal. Take care.

TooSoon

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>
So shutthehellup
and hold her and stroke her hair.... and just let her cry. And keep your mouth SHUT!
The woman is depressed. REALLY depressed. And YOU are not responsible as the cause, nor are you responsible for the fixing.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay I'm going to take a hiatus for a few days...thanks for all your suggestions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> And don't tell me she didn't tell me her inner pain because she's afraid I won't love her anymore, somehow during the course of these last 2-3 years, my love for her has NOT been a major concern of hers: OM's love has been though.

OK.... I will shut up.

Sorry, I'm not ready to feel better just yet and massage my W's feet while she still pines over the lost of OM.

She is pining over the loss of herself.

But.... NOW I will shut up.

YOU take care of yourself FM.

Pep .... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey are you attacking me or am I just a stupid guy??? WOW! This is so far from supportive...okay..later. I'll stay over here and you stay over there....

FM,

What I think I hear you saying is that you believe your W is depressed because she is still pining for the OM, and that is what is driving you crazy and making you so mad. Am I right? Maybe you could find some information about depression that would help you understand what your W is going through, such as articles on the net, pamphlets from a dr’s office, etc.

My therapist told me that when people are depressed for a long time, their brain chemistry changes, and it becomes a physical problem (thus the need for meds to change the brain chemistry back to “normal” or healthy). Maybe your W’s depression began because of family problems and withdrawal, but it could be spiraling into something even worse now.

It must be hard living with a depressed person, and you have been working very hard to take care of everyone. Someone has to be strong right now, though, and you are the only one who is able to be strong right now. Is anyone in you family in IC? A C might be able to help you think of ways to take care of yourself during all of this, as well as taking care of others.

Hang in there.

God bless,

Rose

Family matters (yes they sure DO!):

I completely understand both your anger and FRUSTRATION.

Please just know this: It took my wife a little OVER 6 months to get "over" her Withdrawal.

Unfortunately, this was the time that "withdrew" the most out of MY Love Bank for her.

In fact, it is during this time (and a little since) that the critical damage was done that STILL has me doubting if we will make it for the Long Haul.

Its the worst. (Correction: it absolutely SUCKS!)
YOU think your doing the "right" things.
YOU Know your trying your hardest.
You want to believe they are there trying and "wanting" to be there as well.
Yet, you always feel "something" is just not right.
You think, "Hey, the A is over & the OP is gone.......so what gives??"

Just like most things in the A....(to us)... doesn't make sense.

Anyway, just wanted you to KNOW that 2 months (in many cases) isn't long enough to do "d*ck". Sorry, I'm sure that's NOT what you want to hear.
But perhaps it can at least let you look at your situation a bit differently.
(or maybe not).

In any case, its Still up to you to decide what it is YOU can put up with.
Hopefully this was just one of your "bad days" talking here.

Perhaps getting your frustration out here has helped relieve some of the built up pressure inside of you.
Remember, Your STILL WAAAAAY early yourself in the "recovery" process.
Sadly, it won't be fixed or healed quickly or easily.

So you can stay the course or take your ball and go home. That's entirely up to You.

But here's some good news for you.......You DON'T have to make That decision Today!

No guarantees, but stick to a proven Plan, and you've got the Best chance at making it.

(IN any case, you will save YOURSELF...because you will KNOW that YOU'VE done Everything that you could).
This will give you "peace" whether or Not the M survives.

Truly, that's ALL you can do.....cause we can't make our S get with the program.

You've done a good job.
Your allowed to have a "bad" or down day....sometimes.
Thing is, just don't let the enemy trick you into believing that you can't get right back to MBing....just because something negative happened. (Even if it only happened inside of you).
Cause that is the lie he want's you to buy into.....so that you'll get discouraged and defeated and then just GIVE Up!
The enemy celebrates EVERY TIME a family is broken up.

Good news is YOU don't have to be the cause of his celebration.
You know What to do, I believe you have the perseverance to DO it.......So there you go.
Stay the course, my brother. YOU CAN DO IT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WE Believe In YOU!
Only Continued Success. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hey are you attacking me or am I just a stupid guy???

These aren't the only 2 possible choices. Just the 2 that you can recognize at this time.

I think I am not helping you ... so I am saying.... peace and wellness to ya... and someone better at helping you will come and do just that.

God bless you.

Pep

FM, I have given up trying to work out from small clues AND EVEN snippets of conversations what my FWW is thinking right now. I cannot be sure what she is sad over, happy over, crying over, laughing over at any given time.I gave up asking as I get spin in return - FWW still can't give me the truth I guess for the reason pep cited - she is scared that she may lose my love that she needs SO VERY DESEPERATELY if she tells me that ( for example) she IS sad over OM.

She doesn't realise that in the absence of any facts, my imagination assumes the worst.

I am having to deal with stuff i KNOW right now, not stuff I assume:

I know:

FWW is with me when she could have left me.
OM is out of the picture
FWW is behaving wonderfully to the kids once more.
She is making future plans for us both FEROCIOUSLY
She is involving me in her extra-marital activities and is actively involving herself in mine
FWW is extremely needful of love and affection be it very loving sex, canoodling on the sofa, or a big bear-like hug from me every time I pass near her. A morning without, like today, makes her very sad and agitated.
FWW is very hurt by affair talk, and tears up when I admit I am sad when she asks.
She is seemingly happy for sometimes hours at a time when she is with me. That has GOT to be good.


No thats not enough for me.I want to INTERROGATE her to find out what she thinks of OM now, of the Affair now, am I a consolation prize still 'cos OM blew her out, why won't she open up her life to me so trust rebuilding can begin, whay can;t she get rid of the triggers/love letters ? etc etc but that would be SO counterproductive right now I can't imagine doing it.

I had a single objective during plan A - to kill the A and attract FWW back to me once it ended. Now in recovery I am not sure what my objective is. " a happy Marriage" is impossible to imagine as an objective.

All I can do for now is try to choke down the pain, be constant and loving to FWW so she can gain confidence that she can open up to me regarding the A thereby allowing MY healing to begin.

Its very very hard, but again, I just look at her sometimes when she can't see me so doing and my heart absolutely goes out to her. She said to me this weekend that she knows I have no reason to be with her right now other than I (must)love her and she is very thankful of it. She's right I guess.

God knows whay I love a person who has hurt me so devastatingly, but I cannot deny it. I do.

It took 1-2 years to screw up our M, it will probably take the same to fix it, if we can. I must be patient and choke down my hurt and needs for a while longer yet.

I can't say how my sitch and opinions relate to you, FM , just thought my analogy might help you put your sitch in context.

This is a sh1t, tough, thankless (at the moment) gig that you and I do not deserve, friend. Thank God we are up to the job for the sakes of our wives, children and ourselves, huh ?
{{{{fm}}}}
Be strong br'a. You are the last pillar standing.

<small>[ October 10, 2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

FM,

You have been frustrated and beaten, and then frustrated and beaten down again for as long as you have been on this board.

I just read through your post again, and remembered all your other threads which were equally as frustrated.

Bob is in a similar situation with the exception that Bob is getting love, getting SF, getting the things which you are not, and which you need...desperately from the sound of your threads.

What is the answer? How can your wife be pulled back into reality, how can her eyes be opened to see that she is losing an incredible, good looking, strong and passionate man. The kind of man that novels are made of?

This is what Pep wants, this is what I want, and this is what everyone who reads your threads wants, but what is the answer???

We don't know... if we could I bet all of us here would go over to your house and drag her out of bed and force her to really see you!

You remind me of 2long in a way, with so much love and passion but which falls on empty, closed arms. (except he has glimpses of what could be)

I am sorry, I would smack your wife up the side of the head if I could. What a horrible, stupid waste of a man who wants to love her, and what a waste of love. Damn shame!

She is going to lose you, and this is very frustrating for all of us on MB to be helpless to help wake her up before it is too late.

Hang in there FM, we pray that she will come around soon.