<small>[ March 15, 2005, 05:13 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Wow, you have been through lots of emotional turmoil and painful loss in the last few years.
I am so sorry for all the losses you've experiencd.

You and your H are in a bit of a lull. It is time to recognize that and try to analyze what you both can do to better fill each other's love banks. It isn't always easy to engage in these conversations or even take the time to bring stuff up. It's good that he encourages you in something that interests you like going back to college.

It is an odd part of recovery to find yourself slipping into a bit of complacency and loneliness.
Do we need to have more drama to get us to take the bull by the horns and let each other know that there is something missing or that could use some tweeking in the marital relationship department?

My H doesn't seem to have as high a need for SF as many of the men that post on these boards. When we know that there was a heightened sexual tension that they were feeding off of during their A's it can make one feel a bit insecure like they could be susceptable to another EA or A once again if that area isn't very fulfilling within the marriage.

You may want to look into an Imago Therapy weekend or some other marriage enrichment weekend. I think it can be helpful to have periodic marital tuneups. Maybe there's something like that offered somewhere in Great Britain.

We have to try to achieve a healthy balance of all the important EN's, including time, affection and SF. It can be difficult to put forth the effort and be successful at keeping the SF part of our marriages fresh and exciting. We had our honeymoon times that would last for a season. It is not easy to conjur up those feelings and be deliberate about it and be successful in achieving a fun, exciting sex life in our longterm marriages. It can be challenging. We find that our EN's fluctuate depending on which are being met more than another. When one is lacking that is the one the is moved higher in the list.

We need to keep communicating that we still want to have SF be a nice part of our marriage and let our spouses know our needs. It may be a never ending challenge and path in the lives of our marriages just as keeping an awareness and a balance of the other EN's as well.

I have some questions today.

1. How long must we stay in the refiners fire?

And along with that, how long was your mother exposed to that fire -

2. What does faith have to do with a mustard seed?


Please understand that I mean to give hope, not take it away.


Greetings, and salutations. Your wisdom, and cheery spirit have been missed.

You are one of the most intelligent people I have ever met, as far as being able to look inside themselves and see what is going on internally.

What do your comments about your husband indicate to you about the amount of healing that has taken place inside of you?

LIR, it is really good to see you back, but I am worried about the reasons that bring you here again.

Tell me about your general health, and what you say when you talk to your mom. (I think you know what I mean by this last part.)

SS

<small>[ October 10, 2004, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

It's been a couple of days now - started late a few nigts ago.
Bad vibes.......or worried feelings.

????

SS

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 05:15 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Right up front I am going to admit that you scared me.

The day before you posted your first one on this thread , was a Saturday. I was working in the garden, and I thought about how marriage is kind of like a garden. It needs to be watered, and needs sunlight, and even a little nourishment. If we aren't careful, the weeds take it over, and the fruits are small, and few in number. I was thinking about you and it came to me to post to you, that I ought to ask how you are doing. I resisted that thought - I tend to think people will come if they want, and if they don't, it means they want to be left alone. Very Mars like thinking - but I didn't post, and you posted the next morning.
It was not a happy post. You are honest, and I like that, but I was worried. The next week, late one night, I got a ...........feeling, don't know how to describe it. I was afraid for you, I began to pray for you right then. Still don't know if it was me, or just why I was so worried. I think it would have been late Tuesday the 19th for me, early Wed morning the 20th for you.

My wife and I are doing really well. I hope for that for everyone. I would like to be able to understand what it is that you feel holds you back.

I can see lots of good in what you are saying about your H.


he has already called once tonight, and said he will call again when he leaves to come home) and I'm feeling lonely.

.................so I think I am finally going to try to go back for some IC, and this time, find the right person....I told my H I felt I needed to do this, because some days, all the pain of my childhood, all the loss - losing my brother to mental illness, for one thing, still haunts me - I don't think I have every really dealt with it and let it go...H was very positive about this and right away, suggested he ask his IC for some names, to find someone we both feel we can trust....

I have a new boss, whom I already know from having done a research project with her over the last three years - she is an absolutely lovely person, is intelligent and kind, and generous with her knowledge and contacts. She is really pushing me to apply for the degree course I have talked about doing for the last two years - and my mom's life insurance left me with almost enough to pay for the course, so I really have no excuse not to anymore. I am feeling very positive about that, and my H is very supportive and wants me to do it.


These things show a high level of support from him.

Last May, he was so much help in dealing with the events that occurred after the death of your mother that I almost wondered if it was the same man....... as I read the expressions of love you had for him and about that help. We talked briefly about the lack of trust, and that it needed (in the future) to be dealt with. You seemed really happy then.

I have read over a few times the conversation about "auntie."

Usually it is easy for me to see what is needed. This time I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, you need kindness. I think you just wanted him to reassure you that you are loved, and the most important thing in his life. On the other hand, much of this looks like a misunderstanding - the old Mars, and Venus thing again. I wish I could have seen, and heard the conversation.

Men often feel attacked when women are only seeking information, or clarification, or even support.

Do you think your H could have seen your statements as an attack on his character?
There are a lot of things I would like to say, to discuss. There is a lot of support I would like to offer, but I can't do it right now.

Don't get discouraged. Please don't. I see all that has happened to you, and to your loved ones. I see the pain, the discouragement, the hurt.

I also see the bravery, the work, the struggles for good. I see growth, spunk, compassion, love.

You and I can't see the end from the beginning like God can. We doubt, we fear, (but we grow.)

You know the promises made to you by your Father in Heaven. I believe you know they are real. Further, you are your mothers daughter, and I don't believe you will ever give up.

Words often are not enough to convey feelings. You are so much more than these words can convey. You have looked into the eyes of your H when you did see love. You have felt the spark of desire. I have every reason to believe you will find it again. I believe in you.

If I know Mars and Venus -
Well, just try this -

One morning, as you go out on the way to work ....say to him, "I miss you, I want you, will you make love to me tonight?" (note, as always, use your words, this is just an example.)

Have it be a night both of you will have time. If possible, on a day when neither of you will be at maximum stress from outside worries.

I would like to know of his reaction.

I also want to discuss your work, your father, your sons, and on and on, but I can't stay and talk right now.

Here's the last recommendation for you.
Would you (please) read John chapter 4, from about verse 5 to verse 29.
This is the story of a women living in adultery. Jesus notes that - then what does he do?

How does this apply to the conversations you and I have, and the conversations you have with your H?

LIR, you have our continued prayers. If I ever say anything that hurts, it isn't meant to be that way.

Often I wish I could put my thoughts into words much better than I do. I am hoping I help, and I hope God will make up for the talent I lack, so that you will get what you need, and be successful.
God be with you.

SS

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

LIR....

you handled this awesomely...
though I can feel your sadness....

He basically wanted permission to have contact with her....
and he thought he could use the friends death as a catalyst...for surely the sadness and pain...somehow cloaked the contact...

I'm not saying that there were any great exchanges between them on the phone...I'm sure the conversation was as he described..
but he was testing the waters...

you held your ground and principles well...his increased anger is while not ha ha funny..but isamusing...

So instead of getting rattled by the emotion conjured up by what I was hearing, I just tried to deal with it...when he said "this isn't working for me", I said "so you're saying that if I ask you questions you don't like, this doesn't work for you....you're saying our relationship only works for you if I don't ask difficult questions...right?" When he said "you want me out.." I said "I never said that...I said I want a relationship based on honesty..." He said "You're accusing me of being dishonest?" I said "No, I'm not, but I'm not being dishonest, and I need to be in a relationship with someone who is honest and open with me..." "So you're accusing me of being dishonest..." "No I'm not, I'm telling you what I need..." When he said "There's nothing to talk about", I said "That just means that this is something you don't want to talk about with me." Never did he say that he wasn't being dishonest...he just layed into me....

man you handled that well...
really well..

no power struggle
state your peace and boundaries...softly and clearly..
let him stew in it...

he knows you are right..that's why his anger is so out of proportion...but it's human nature to test limits.....
and you held the line...
and in the end it will make you and him feel safer...

ARK

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Dear ark -

I think you just hit the nail on the head for me - yes, that's what was happening...

he was testing the limits....seeing if he could still stay in touch with her, with my approval...

he found out that it really upset me, so the message he got is that it is not OK...

that's what I meant in my previous post that I felt like maybe the best thing was just to let him be uncomfortable with it....

I think you are right that in the long run...it will make him realize that I do care about us and about our R being sacrosanct...both emotionally and physically....

But I give credit to MB for making it possible for me to handle that conversation in that way - to be able to answer like that....see through the babble.....I was only able to do that because I have read so much here, and seen those words said by so many other WS (my H is not really a WS now, though).

But like I said to ss - I feel at a crossroads now....I feel I need some IC with a face-to-face counselor...and it concerns me that I think H would feel betrayed if he found out I post personal stuff here - to remain true to him, I think I should finally bow out of posting here....I think its OK if you have been through a marriage crisis and you both agree, but H doesn't know I post here still, and I don't think he would agree....

Then I think....but posting here really helped me sort out what happened there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
So...what to do....

You know....you, ark, Pep, ss, Trix, all you lovely, wonderful people have helped me so much and I will be sad to not post anymore....please know how much I appreciate how much you have all given me and how much I have learned from you all.....

OK?

LIR

If it's OK, I'll come back and do one more post.

You need to always do what is best for you. Always.

SS

Yes, its ok -

I do feel I'm getting ready to bow out for good - at least for awhile, while I get some face-to-face counselling - for myself, really - I need to get myself together and get myself goal-oriented again - that's the only thing that is going to lift me out of this funk....

Before I go, I would like to be able to ask one more Mars/Venus question....

ss, you have often alluded to "forgetting"...forgetting things, presumably, that are emotionally important to your wife....and she gets upset about that...takes it as a sign of lack of caring about the things that are important to her....

Any other spouses input appreciated here, too...

H and I were talking a few nights ago...actually, he asked me how I was...after I got off the phone with my sister.....maybe a little concerned about me....my convo with my sis was all about her problems, though, not about mine, but he didn't know that....

I said I was OK....and we got to chatting about a convo we had with some people we know....and about how she and I are past having any more children...too old, and also, I had a miscarriage in 2001, which definitively showed that I was no longer able to carry a child....now this happened in the throes of H's first EA - I accidentally got pregnant, then at 8 weeks started to miscarry - it didn't "go" completely, and for weeks, I went in for scans, with the OB/GYN hoping it would expell naturally, but it didn't - finally in Nov, I had a D&C - a week later, my SIL committed suicide....

The thing is...H doesn't remember this at all....he honestly doesn't...he even went to the hospital with me before surgery, and was there with YS to greet me afterwards....

H's chronology is all messed up - he was labouring under the belief that I had got a coil right after I had YS 9 years ago...this episode where I had a miscarriage, and then had a coil has totally erased from his mind....it took a lot of reminding of various details before his memory began to come back...he only remembers it because he remembers me having to give myself Heparin injections for several days after I got out of hospital....

I mean - this is SIGNIFICANT for me. This spelled the end of my child-bearing years....I was overwhelmed at the time and cried into his arms afterwards....

He doesn't remember it at all..

Why doesn't he remember?

His first EA was winding down, his 2nd EA was winding up....and then his SIL committed suicide....did the shock of her suicide wipe out all memory of what I was going through?

Or was he just emotionally divorced from me at the time...and going through the motions of being caring?

If he appeared to me to be caring at the time, how can I tell if he is being caring to me now?

Or is it just that once something is over, its over for him, and he goes on to the next thing in life?

He was totally honest about forgetting, and even a little embarrassed, but not too much, and it hasn't affected his affection for me now....he's still affectionate and kind....I did say to him that probably the shock of our SIL's death wiped everything else out....but I also said "Can you blame me for feeling frustrated with you when you forget even the most important things I go through?" He didn't say much....

It's hard for me to tell how MUCH he cares about me...and is this an example of just how much he takes me for granted....is it an example of Martian "live for the moment" behaviour and should I not really be offended...or is it an example of how a WS is really not "connected" emotionally even though they can appear to be....

It makes me feel sad, and although I have tried to understand it intellectually, part of me is just retreating further and further from H inside, while outwardly appearing friendly....it really hurts...how can I invest myself emotionally, if he isn't invested in me, even to that degree...

I thought husbands and wives were supposed to go through these things together....

I suppose I should count myself lucky for all the good things...there are some dads who can hardly remember the names of their own children at times....

LIR

I am still here. I read your words and feel a sadness for you. I understand your feeling that posting here may not be understood by your H. But, at the same time I wish I could come up with something to say that would make it okay. Maybe had you told him earlier that you still sometimes use MB as a personal journal...with feedback. That you may continue to do so even though you feel like your marriage is in recovery then he maybe it wouldn't feel like he may about posting your personal feelings and conflicts as you move on with your R. After all, it is a fairly anonymous forum...well, for those who wish it to remain so. (some of us have met in real life)


Quote:
"Or was he just emotionally divorced from me at the time...and going through the motions of being caring?"

I'd tend to think that is it. I have had some of the same experiences with my H regarding things that happened during that time that I found important that he doesn't remember. Actually, I also had a miscarriage about a year into his most serious A and I think he had forgotten wanting me to have an abortion when he found out I was P. I am certain he would not recall the emotional turmoil I went through going through that ordeal. He was emotionally removed from me. He feels badly for some of the disregard he had back then and some of the words he said to me then.

My H doesn't get why I still come to MB and read the same drama and pain over and over again. At times he has thought it has kept me from getting totally past his A's. I did sometimes let some of it spill over to my mood for the day. I think it has evolved beyond that now so that I don't allow myself to relive my own pain and drama though others as much but just want to pull for others as they go through the various stages toward recovery one way or another. Sometimes cheering and praying for others in lurking mode. (I do admit to being somewhat addicted and sometimes I think I should leave for a while too.)

If you must leave for a time I do hope you will come back after you do some counselling. Other's benefit from your words and experiences too.

And you write so darn well.....expressively...

All the best to you LIR.

Yes, its ok -

I don't think I have time to write all my thoughts down today. Not sure what I will do with them. For now, lets address your comments.

I do feel I'm getting ready to bow out for good - at least for awhile, while I get some face-to-face counselling - for myself, really - I need to get myself together and get myself goal-oriented again - that's the only thing that is going to lift me out of this funk....

This is my opinion, and I have no facts to back it up.
It seems to me that there is something going on here beyond the things you are talking about. I am not seeing problems of such a nature to produce this kind of response in you. When you speak of getting your self together......it almost sounds like you feel some kind of loss too. We all live in cycles - we have up days, and down days. We have up weeks, and down weeks. I have seen you down in the past, but this seems different. I can't define it, I can't give an example.

Have you been feeling low for a prolonged period of time? Are you fighting to live normally, or to live nearly so?

Am I up in the night?

Before I go, I would like to be able to ask one more Mars/Venus question....

ss, you have often alluded to "forgetting"...forgetting things, presumably, that are emotionally important to your wife....and she gets upset about that...takes it as a sign of lack of caring about the things that are important to her....

I read this, and then talked to my W. She confirmed some things, and I will report them with confidence that it is not just me - but she agrees with my version of things. I think that's important for you to know.


H and I were talking a few nights ago...actually, he asked me how I was...........
I said I was OK....and we got to chatting about a convo we had with some people we know....and about how she and I are past having any more children...too old, and also, I had a miscarriage in 2001, which definitively showed that I was no longer able to carry a child....now this happened in the throes of H's first EA - I accidentally got pregnant, then at 8 weeks started to miscarry - it didn't "go" completely, and for weeks, I went in for scans, with the OB/GYN hoping it would expell naturally, but it didn't - finally in Nov, I had a D&C - a week later, my SIL committed suicide....

The thing is...H doesn't remember this at all....he honestly doesn't...he even went to the hospital with me before surgery, and was there with YS to greet me afterwards....

We had all the children here in Late Sept for a birthday. (Im 49 now.)
We were talking about their births, and the events, and the chronology, and what happened in the hospital. I couldn't remember much of what happened with each child. I was kind of amazed, but I couldn't remember. I was embarrassed, and I was sorry, but the memories were foggy for what I could remember, and some of them don't exist. I would suppose this is similar to what you are relating, after all, isn't this one of the stellar events in the our lives?

My W says sometimes I care, but just don't remember. She also said that sometimes I just don't care.

I mean - this is SIGNIFICANT for me. This spelled the end of my child-bearing years....I was overwhelmed at the time and cried into his arms afterwards....

He doesn't remember it at all..

Why doesn't he remember?

I asked her if it is that things stick in our minds differently, and she said, no, it's not that. She said " we really are different - we are, and we can't change that part of our selves. It's not a bad thing (and she winked at me,) it's a good thing."

I asked about me helping her during difficult times - including child birth. She gave me high marks for helping, but she said that some things that were import to her, were not things I cared about. Mostly I wanted the mother, and child to be taken care of, and she says I did that well.

As for why doesn't he remember? I can't answer that. Our 2nd daughter was born when we lived in Colorado. The only child to be born out of our home state. I remember driving up to the emergency room door, it was snowing hard. My concern was that I get them to the hospital without getting in an accident. I dropped W off, and went to park. I must have had faith in the staff, and the doctor, because I cant' remember many details after that. This daughter had problems and had to stay under the lights for a few days. I can't remember going to visit, or taking her home. I can't remember how many days she stayed.

The memory of the drive to the H came to me after we were talking about each birth. Does the fact that I can't remember mean I don't care about my children? ( This question is to myself, I don't expect an answer from you.)
Does it mean the ones I remember best ( for instance 2nd son was born the night MT St. Helens erupted, and blew up, and the doctor and I watched it on TV while W was in labor, and I remember that really well.) Does that mean I love 2nd son best, because I remember his birth better, or is it just the way our minds work?

His first EA was winding down, his 2nd EA was winding up....and then his SIL committed suicide....did the shock of her suicide wipe out all memory of what I was going through?

Or was he just emotionally divorced from me at the time...and going through the motions of being caring?

If he appeared to me to be caring at the time, how can I tell if he is being caring to me now?

Or is it just that once something is over, its over for him, and he goes on to the next thing in life?


I think Trix and I disagree about this (though I do it with great respect for Trix, who is very wise, and very helpful.)

I think there is no way to know now just why he can't remember the way you remember. I think the way you can tell if he cares is by how he acts now. If he acted like he cared then, and he acts like he cares now, I think you have your answer.

I think the scripture goes something like this:
"By their fruits ye shall know them...."
What are you getting from him now? Is it fruit or thorns? Figs or thistles?

He was totally honest about forgetting, and even a little embarrassed, but not too much, and it hasn't affected his affection for me now....he's still affectionate and kind....I did say to him that probably the shock of our SIL's death wiped everything else out....but I also said "Can you blame me for feeling frustrated with you when you forget even the most important things I go through?" He didn't say much....

I wouldn't have known what to say either. How can you prove that you care about something that happened in the past? All you can do is meet needs in the present. How is he doing?


It's hard for me to tell how MUCH he cares about me...and is this an example of just how much he takes me for granted....is it an example of Martian "live for the moment" behaviour and should I not really be offended...or is it an example of how a WS is really not "connected" emotionally even though they can appear to be....

Or is it something else?
Is it that he is getting older, and some things that could be in his mind are not there sometimes?
Is this really an example of his taking you for granted, or is it an example of how different we are?
Is it an example of him having a bad memory.

I saw a man a few weeks ago that graduated from HS two or three years ahead of me. He is the mayor of a small town near here, he has almost white hair now. A little pudgy, though not really fat, but not in really good shape either. When I saw him, I remembered doing dishes in my Grandmothers house in 1969. She had a HS football game on the radio. This man was the quarterback, and he was a good one. I can remember some of the play by play action. I remember the excitement of the crowd, and I remember our team won.

Why can I remember this game from 1969 so well, but not remember the birth of many of my children? Am I a bad husband, and father?

I am not much of a sports fan. I don't go to games hardly ever, I don't read the sports page most of the time. What is going on in my head that these important things can't be recalled, but fluff comes to mind so easily?


It makes me feel sad, and although I have tried to understand it intellectually, part of me is just retreating further and further from H inside, while outwardly appearing friendly....it really hurts...how can I invest myself emotionally, if he isn't invested in me, even to that degree...

I thought husbands and wives were supposed to go through these things together....

I suppose I should count myself lucky for all the good things...there are some dads who can hardly remember the names of their own children at times....


I don't have an answer for what is going on, but I worry a lot. AS I said before, in the early summer, you were so happy because your H helped so much with the events surrounding your Mothers death and funeral. He helped when you had problems with your Dad, and SM. I worried then - some of it here to you, that there were still things that would come between you unless they were worked out.

Do you think it is some of these things that are the cause of your feelings now?

Lack of Honesty
Him keeping the finances a secret.
Not resolving his EA's - no repentance or disclosure.
No POJA

LIR, I have sometimes failed to fully explain my writings. Please understand, I am not saying I know the answers, I am trying to understand what is happening.

Where did those happy, loving, trusting feelings from May and June go?

What is he giving you now that causes you to doubt when you felt things were going well before?

I worry because our enemy is very good at what he does, and he seeks to destroy your family. I worry because your health, and strength have taken major hits these last few years, and none of us can go on forever. I worry because your mother was much of your strength, and though I believe she may be able to help still, she is not as visible as before.


I come to MB with my W's blessing. I asked her if It was OK, and I talk about people I meet here, and I sometimes ask her to help me understand better. She won't come and read, or post, but she knows you, and she sometimes helps me craft my answers.

You may want to ask your H - explain that you fond a web site for strengthening marriages, and ask him if you can help others, and ask some questions yourself. Promise him you won't spend too much time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I sense some fear still. I long for the time when he will erase that from you heart.

Don't know if you ever got "Love Busters, Habits that destroy Romantic love"
I still think it would be a help to you. I would gladly send it to someone that could pass it on to you, if I had an address. Lisa in London has my e-mail address, if you even wanted to get that book I could send it to someone to pass on to you. When I saw in black and white the things I was doing to destroy my W's love for me, I wanted to change, and I finally knew how to do so. It really helped me.

I suggest you quit posting if you need todo that. Always do what is best for your marriage, family, and your own peace of mind. I may come back and post another one or two on your thread, but I need to do some praying first. Don't reply if you feel it is best not to.

You have come such a long way on this journey. We still have a ways to go, but we have help, and will continue to have help. If you sometimes doubt, or wonder, I want you to know that I know that help is only a prayer away. I promise you that.

It's time to go to church. I sometimes pray at church, but I do most of my praying at home, and you can be sure I will be praying for you- all of you.
I didn't have time to do a good proof read, hope it's not too bad.

God be with you.

SS

Thank you so much for replying, Trix - I also appreciated your last post to me - about sex in a long-term marriage....

Still a problem....still no sex...and I appreciate your suggestion, ss - to wait for a "no-stress" night, and put the suggestion in his mind early on in the day - good point - I still need to be reminded about Martians needing time to think about things first... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

There is so much in what both of you have said to me that I'd like to reply to...as always, I am fighting the clock here...

I would have liked to be open with my H, Trix, about my posting here at MB, but our "recovery" has not been "by the MB book". It has been more a "hang on to what you've got and hope he doesn't flip out" recovery - I was seriously afraid my H was losing touch with reality by the time he walked out of our last (and that was the 4th marriage counselor) counselling session. I saw his letter to his own counselor describing that session, which he accidentally left on the clipboard on our computer - it was seriously scary - he described me as "ranting" and "screaming invective" at him, when I was actually quietly sitting in my chair and responding carefully to a few questions. He also described the counselor as "going for him" when she had simply turned to him and asked him what if he would like to respond to something I had said. I have seen people go "over", including my own brother, and most recently, one of my best friends, and I felt my H was getting to that point. I thought the best thing was just to quit counselling and let everything calm down. Also, there was an incident around that time where he got a horrible stiff neck, and the doctor prescribed Valium to help relax his muscle spasm - boy, was he a different person! I joke now that my H was normal on Valium - he actually looked me in the eyes, said please and thank you, appreciated what I was doing for him, and I was able to talk to him without him getting mad at me. That kind of told me my H is just a little bit "wired" naturally, to put it mildly....

The thing is...he is a musician/performer....and I think he has the wierd hard-wiring that goes with that....sometimes he is really borderline in the nerves department....the kids find him difficult to cope with, too - as they get older, they find him harder and harder to talk to...he is very intense, even if he is happy...full of nervous energy, more than happy to jump to instruct you about something (he thinks he is being helpful), quick to take offense, often seeing the negative in people and situations, frequently complaining about things - he is like, super-sensitive....everything gets to him to the maximum, and yet....he can be exuberant...full of enthusiasm for whatever it is he is doing...he bings from performance to performance in a totally focused way....when he is in the house, you know it, and whatever it is he needs, everything else takes second place...he is like a human tornado sometimes...its why people gravitate to him...when they first get to know him, they long to be caught up in the swirl of excitement he generates...they don't realize there is a negative side to that, and what a struggle it is to cope with all that energy all the time...especially because he is always right, and isn't naturally tolerant..he thinks he is, but he isn't really....he tolerates another view, only so he can eventually prove you wrong...because he actually knows all the answers....he is a very complex person...which is why he is such a wonderful Classical musician....

However, I am left with my hair blown practically bald-headed sometimes in the backdraft!!

And....when he is working, which is all the time, he barely gives me a thought - not even a second thought, because there isn't even a first thought...the idea that I might have needs, let alone needs that aren't being met would be greeted with a "so what? everyone has needs...what does that have to do with me?"

If I had it to do over again, I'd marry a builder, and wouldn't touch an artist with a barge-pole!!!

Here I am, though....and I guess...well, here I am....I have two beautiful kids, a husband who is multi-talented and loves me in his own peculiar way....

My first instinct when he admitted that he forgot I had had a miscarriage was the same as yours, Trix...it's a sign he wasn't emotionally involved with me at the time...what happened to me didn't really matter much to him....he maybe felt kindly towards me, but he wasn't involved, so....out of sight, out of mind....

Its part of the process of "recovery", though, I realize, to stub your toes on these big boulders from the past....I wouldn't have found that out if we hadn't been talking in the first place....and he was the one who initiated the convo, so I have to look at those things as positives....

I also feel stuck in that I don't want to go on about the past....I don't want to keep reminding him of his past transgressions...but it is difficult because we have NEVER talked about that, and when I have tried, he reacted with fury...

So....we are stumbling on....

My kids went back to boarding school tonight and I am home alone again....H is having dinner with an old friend in London on his way home from work, so won't be home until way late....

My problem, and it is my problem, is that I am lonely....and lonely not just for female companionship, either....

My son was in a theatre production this last week, and the staff director who took care of him was another American...he was 10 years younger than me, but we chatted a few times because we are both Americans living in Britain....it turned out we had a lot of the same interests....it makes me really sad...I enjoyed just talking to someone I shared interests with in the same way....my H is not interested in any of my thoughts....he is only consumed with his own thoughts....and when we do talk, we end up arguing...if I share a thought with him, he will either tell me I am wrong, or disagree and a discussion will end up in an argument....I keep thinking about that theatre director...I won't see him again, and he was married three years, with a 9-week old baby...it's not like I would even think about getting involved with him anyway...but having those feelings of wishing I could have some kind of communion with someone, a man, who actually found me interesting, and attractive and enjoyed being with me, made me sad...I feel negelected by H, and I don't think I am ever going to get anything more out of H than I am now....

yes, my Taker is speaking now....and feeling sorry for herself.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

sometimes she gets tired....

OK - a little slap around the cheeks...like that aftershave commercial - what's it called? I've been away from the States too long....

....marriages are not made in Heaven...they take work....not just on the marriage, but on ourselves....I always feel bad when I start concentrating on what's wrong with H...

to feel better, I have to start concentrating on making my own personal goals happen....and see where that takes me...and what doors open for me....tomorrow I go back to work...and it is time to start seriously tackling the prospect of doing a degree....with my new supportive boss, I have every chance of making a success at that....so I need to concentrate on the positives in my life....

Thanks for listening....

LIR

I wish you had done this (last)post a long time ago. there is information here that is very valueable to us if we are to help properly.

I have a lot of thinking to do before I can be of much more use here. I hope to be back within a day or two.

You are not crazy - and it's not your fault.

Prayers continue.

SS

Dear ss -

I finally got to get back here to see what you wrote to me - I think I posted back to Trix at the same time you posted, and I missed it.

I'm taking in everything you said...

Also, I am feeling better....I have upped my use of the lightbox - maybe I was getting depressed, but I feel better now...also...H has had several concerts in a row...and when he is preparing for a concert, it is all-consuming...it IS part of his personality and part of his work, which I have to accept...I have to find ways to BUILD ON THE POSITIVE, instead of always being hurt by the negative....this is a challenge for me personally...

I really appreciate your lengthy reply, and all your questions to yourself...this is why I asked you, because I knew you would honestly ask yourself about this "forgetting" thing, for lack of a better word to call it. I do think it is partly he was emotionally disconnected from me, like Trix said - instinctively I feel that - and that I "stubbed my toe" on a hidden boulder by talking about it...these are the things that are lying in wait because we have never talked about his EAs...so I guess I see this as part of recovery...sometimes very painful, but necessary...

Do I think he didn't care, or doesn't care? No. I think he did care, and I think he does care, and that's the important part. Just because he doesn't remember doesn't mean he didn't care at the time, or doesn't care now. I don't remember OS 4th birthday at all - I have a picture of him taken in the yard with his new swing, and no other pictures, because the camera was broken and I was suffering from SAD (undiagnosed at the time). I can't remember it at all...even with prompting. I know it doesn't mean I didn't try hard to give him a happy birthday, or that I didn't care whether he had a happy birthday...I just can't remember....I think your thing about driving up to the hospital doors sticks in your mind because that was your most important job...getting her to the hospital safely...that was so urgent in your mind, that that is what you remember most....H probably doesn't remember the miscarriage because it is in the past, and he is confident I came out OK...

What you said about thorns and thistles...when H was in his EAs...it was HELL...he was nasty and mean, and brittle and defensive....

Not that way now...now it is gentle smiles, cheerful faces, little hugs, being helpful, talking to me about everything...

I guess my lonliness comes back to a lack of sex...again...it mystifies me....but I think we are still "in recovery" - our R is bound to have to go through a healing period....

I am still willing to work...I just get low when I feel neglected....I have to "go down to the well" and then pick myself back up again (with the help of friends).

I DO need to get the LoveBusters book and I appreciate your offer. I will see what I can do about getting it, and if I need to, i will contact you through Lisa in London. It may be time for us both to read this. I don't think H has been too receptive to books in the past, but maybe he is changing now.

I have to go now, because I am at work....

Once again, thank you so much....

I am trying hard to work on myself...and it is a slow process....that's all I can do....

LIR

Just to update that I am feeling better in myself. I am using my lightbox an hour a day now. I am back at work and it helps to get out of the house. The building works on the house are moving forward - hopefully by Christmas it will all be done and the boys will have a much bigger bedroom, and I will finally have a bathtub - we have lived for 11 years with only a shower - nice shower, though.

I have been trying harder with H - trying to compliment him more, and trying to draw him out by letting him know I still find him attractive. Its working in that he responds and draws closer, but still no sex. When bedtime rolls around, all we both want is sleep. H is not working on an upcoming concert, so he has more time in his head to respond to me. I can tell he would like to...but he doesn't really know how...H doesn't know how to relax, really....kind of a workaholic...I think it would be the same if he were an accountant....

Just letting you know I am doing OK and still working at our M.

LIR

My H doesn't seem to have a desire for SF very ofter. I would rather have it more than we do.

He has not been clear if there is a reason. We are still doing very well otherwise.

I still hope that we can achieve a more passionate marriage than we presently have.

I am glad to hear you are feeling better.

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Hi Everyone,

I am very glad you (LIR) are feelihng better. It's good to see Trix coming round and talking too.

I feel like talking to you also Trix, but I had better read up on your story first.

LIR, I still plan on getting back to you - not that I figure I am all that smart, but It's just that I talk a lot sometimes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

<small>[ November 06, 2004, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

You do like to talk a lot and you make a very good sounding board for LIR. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />