Suzet I just read your 'father's loveletter' and the tears came without notice. What a beautiful gathering of scripture. I am humbled.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> Suzet I just read your 'father's loveletter' and the tears came without notice. What a beautiful gathering of scripture. I am humbled. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me too Suzet- thank you. I cut and pasted them and emailed them to several friends.

Sorry for the threadjack Ky.

To Foreverhers -

I ditto Sadfww.

And I am so very grateful that you are on this board. Just knowing that you are here and "watching" over us in your fashion, gives me peace.

Kind of like having our own personal minister who shows up at just the right time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you!

Rook thank you for sharing, I have wrote the books down, I'm going to be pruned. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm going to start a prayer journal today, and I have gotten up early the past few days. Prayer is getting easier for me, something I practiced everyday before my A. Thank you for your plan, that is what I needed.

Bob Pure, I love you, in the most platonic way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You sir, warm my heart!!

Suzet, thank you for the poems, I have read the one on your thread before, but I didn't feel it until today. Thank you, I have also sent it to a bunch of friends. Suzet = sunshine

RWS - I know God did not leave my side, it was I who was hiding from him. Thank you for the childlike example, you spoke to me in away I can fully understand. My heart was broken at the thought of my boys, not accepting my forgiveness. I really understand now, thank you!!

Weaver, see how you are? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> No worries, as long as you mention my narcissist butt in the threadjack, I'm fine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> J/K, I am a queen threadjacker!! The more the merrier is my theory.

Foreverhers, Can you say, CUT-COPY-PASTE-SAVE

I hope you don't mind, but I intend to save this, and when somebody else is in need paste it, but of course remove your name, and try and pull it off like they are my words. j/k, I will give you full credit.

I'm going to have my friend over, the Pastor's W, and read this thread to her, and your post, and have her pray with me. Thank you so much for taking the time to post to me ForeverHers, your post was brilliant and moving. I really appreciate it.

You have all helped me so much, God is smiling down on you, I'm guessing you'll all be blessed with some surprise chocolate today. (a kiss from God)

Thank you, KY

{{{{{KY}}}}}

You have received so much good advice here, I'm not sure I can add to it...I don’t have a lot of great words, I can only tell you what happened to me…just wanted to give you some encouragement...

I use to think about "those" people who were the really “bad” sinners, and about how great it is/would be to be that one that has been in church all their life, the one who never did drugs, never drank, was never promiscuous, never had an abortion, never had an affair, never cheated, or told huge lies, or cussed, or...Then I realized that I had become one of "those" people, and oh how sweet became the realization of God's forgiveness...all Christians are forgiven, but those who have more to be forgiven of, well, from where I stand, I am much more greatful for what Christ did for me, than when I was “the good girl”. But, I also have so much more for the devil to attack me with... I was a Sunday School teacher, I was a choir member, I had received some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I was respected at my church by my peers, my friends, and my family...but I felt so guilty about things I'd done in high school, things associated with my first marriage...things that were seemingly out of my control, but nonetheless, I'd gotten caught up in some of those things I detested and thought I'd never be a part of, and then, 15 years later, those things were haunting me. Had I repented? YES! Was I truly sorry for those things that I did? YES! Had God forgiven me? YES!! but, had I ever forgiven myself? Not really...I thought I had, but I was allowing satan to beat me up...then, I'd go to God in prayer and say forgive me, and sometimes I'd feel His forgiveness, but soon I just began to feel an emptiness. Why? Because God no longer recognized that sin...when we repent and are truly sorry, God forgives us, He throws those sins as far as the East is from the West. God no longer remembers those things that we've done, but unfortunately satan does, and he uses them to tell us we're not saved, that God doesn't love us, and we're going straight to hell because there's no way He'd ever forgive us, but those are all LIES - LIES that satan tells because he knows we don't want to be away from God, he also knows that if he can lie enough to get us to turn our backs on God, then he'll have a chance.

One night, after a group Bible study, I finally realized that God's forgiveness was already given, that I needed to let go of the LIES from satan, and let go of the pain that kept me bound to those sins...I was so weak and down that I could not even pray for myself, all I could do was sob, but God knew the desires of my heart, He knew that I was serious, and He loved me. My friends rallied around me, surrounded me with a wall of prayer, they helped me pray through to find God’s love and forgiveness, but also my own. God loves you too...He wants to forgive us...He has forgiven us when we truly repent.

God, I pray to you today for my friend. She is so in need of your love. She is in need of your forgiveness, and she is in need of her own forgiveness too. Jesus, we know you took those sins on the cross, and we know you throw them into the Sea of Forgetfulness, never to be remembered again. Father we ask you to please remove the pain and guilt associated with these sins. I ask you to wholly and completely and thoroughly heal KY. I ask you to let her remember not to fall into this pattern again, but not to allow the pain and guilt to be felt. God, she is just as a criminal sitting in a cell, the door is open, You are allowing her to go free, please hold her hand as she steps out. Guide her heart and soul to look to You. Show her in your word what plans you have for her life. And, lead her to the church You want her in. Surround her with Godly friends. Thank you for your love and your peace and especially for your grace and mercy. In Your Holy name, Amen.

Well, I’ve found a new church, one where they don’t know about all of my little sins, but I still know, only now, God has helped me to forgive myself, He has given me strength, to remember those things, but not with the same “mental eye”…I now can remember those things, with the ability to hold my head up and say “God has forgiven me, and He can and will, and wants to forgive you too!” I say that Not high and mighty, but as one who has been truly humbled, one who has failed, and one who has been forgiven and knows the awesome release of that kind of healing.

One of my favorite songs, my prayer partner at church sings and dedicated it to me at a time when I needed it, she had no idea, I’d not breathed a word of what I was going through…but God knows, and He cares …this brings peace to me, and I hope it does to you as well…

A Wall of Prayer
Vs. 1
There are walls made by man
Built by frail and human hands
That an enemy can scale and get to you
But there is one protecting me from my greatest enemy
It’s a wall that satan can’t break through

Vs. 2
Oh my brother when I’m weak
Would you stand in stead for me
And pray a fortress ‘round me strong that can’t be moved
And, I promise you today, when I bow on my knees to pray
I’ll do my best to build a wall of prayer for you.

Ch.
Sometimes a wall of grace, sometimes a wall of faith
Other times it’s sweet mercy that I need
But the one for which I long,
It makes all the others strong
I need a wall of prayer surrounding me.


Finally, my friend, I pray for the continued healing of your marriage. You and ST are such a beautiful couple, you are so blessed, and I pray you will continue to heal and grow in God’s strength and grace.

Much love to you both ~ Ang

II Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face; then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sins, and heal their land.

Ang, my sweet friend. Thank you so much. There is nothing nicer than to have somebody pray for you. That was beautiful and I am in tears because of your compassion.

I love you Lemon Dash!!!!
Jelly

hi Yellow,
I have been reading this forum for a couple of years now, never posting but learning so much,I just had to login because i feel like i'm seaching for the same thing as you are, finding a way back to my Lord and Savior after my affair, i feel so lost and unworthy, where did i go?
My affair has been over and done with for over 3 years, and i thought i could feel better about myself but as time goes on i just feel worse, i have a WONDERFUL husband that waited for me and i have a WONDERFUL family that i could have lost in all of my mess but i didn't, i have been struggling with my self and my relationship with God alot latley.

I feel so much shame you have no idea, i cuss and drink now also some and i never did before, i was my churches youth leader, suday school superindentent everything good that you could imagine now i'm nothing, just a pitiful woman crying her eyes out while typing this.I feel like everything that goes wrong in my life now is because God is still punishing me for my sins.

Maybe we could help each other find our way back to him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you don't mind, but I intend to save this, and when somebody else is in need paste it, but of course remove your name, and try and pull it off like they are my words. j/k, I will give you full credit. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">kyellow - I don't mind at all, I'm glad that you found something in there to help you. "Comfort those with the comfort you yourself have received."

But please be sure to give GOD the full credit. He is the teacher, I am merely the student trying to learn and apply the lessons. "There but for the grace of God go I" has much meaning for all of us who have faced the trials and found God there, hand out, waiting to guide us and rescue us. No reason for Him to be there, but for His love for us and His promises to us. The Good Shepard....searches for His sheep, no matter how "lost" them may seem to be.

{{{{{{{{KY}}}}}}}}}

I can hardly add to anything here. Some of the masters on the site have already chimed in...ex-pastors, the MB Champlain himself, FH, well, who am I to try and add anything.

I love that story about the wayward son. The father loved him so much. But he let him and do his own thing, even though the father knew his son's decisions were unwise. It was almost as though the Father knew that the only way the son would learn the hard lessons he needed to learn, was to go out and make these horrible mistakes, leave his father's side, forsake the family.

I often think how I am like the wayward son. My Father in heaven has told me so many things ahead of time, through friends, through speakers, scripture, independent study, one of my favorite Christian women speakers, Joyce Myer (side bar: totally see if you can get her in your local market in the Christian Television Network. She is funny, smart, and so DEAD ON RIGHT and annointed with her message. Her program, Enjoying Everyday Life is only 30 minutes long, but I watch it and laugh, maybe cry, and definitely learn something everytime). God has tried to warn me, tried to show me there is an easier way, tried to show me what I should be doing, and I go off on my own tangent, and God has to stand there watching me walk down my own misguided road, shaking His head, His heart breaking, knowing I will be the Wayward Child for awhile. I am so grateful that He has willingly accepted me back, despite all the "shortcuts" off the real path I have chosen to take...and ended up finding myself bruised, scared, alone, and hurting...He sure is loving and patient.

But back to what I really love about this story. The Father never gives up on his son. I have a visual movie in my mind of their reunion. That day when he makes a dot out in the distance, a figure making its way down the long and dusty path to his home... and when he can finally see who it is, he goes running to him. It is his son!! How BADLY the Father missed his child. He does not punish. He does not turn his back on this misguided, lost child...he embraces him and then throws a party. He kills their best calf for some choice cuts of meat for their guests, breaks into the vintage wines...and has a massive celebration for his child.

When a lost child comes home to God, He receives us with joy, and true happiness to have us home. We should enjoy this homecoming, and allow ourselves to go running into His arms. And rebuke any lies that you are not worthy of being there (since satan could not get you with the A, he is gonna get you with the shame, and that is putting you right where he wanted you to be, that is, apart from God).

If your child were to run away, and choose a life of trouble and disobedience, and then find his way back home...what would you do?

Open your arms, forgive him happily, throw a party, and bust out your best chocoloate! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He's there...He's happy you're back. Don't let anyone, any evil influence, steal the joy of the celebration from you.

Something I realized. This is not about my WH, my marriage, my life's circumstances. No matter what the people around me are doing...this life FOR ME is about ME and GOD. Because, at the end of the day, I cannot blame my lack of love and trust in Christ on my WH, my job, my house, my anything. Christ will be standing before me to ask me, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? And I hope he says, "Welcome home, my good and faithful servant." And there is no excuse, no outside influence, no nothing that will excuse away a life void of a personal relationship with Christ. "Well, Christ, I really wanted to know you and love you, but my WH hurt me, so I got mad that you did not interceded fast enough, so I walked away and did not trouble myself to know you more, but, I would have if he did not do what he did." That is not gonna matter. I am personally accountable for my walk no matter what.

Anyhow, I rambled on much longer than I had expected to...

God bless!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, I have become a FWW, I feel unworthy in God's house. I feel over whelmed with shame. I feel like a sinner, I feel like a hypocrite. I just don't know how to cleanse myself and enjoy God again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">kyellow4 - I just wanted to go back to your opening post for a minute. I wanted to make a brief comment and then give you a link to a thread I started some time ago that you might find helpful as you process all that keeps flooding your mind.

KY, You ARE a sinner. So am I and so is everyone else. God's house is FOR sinners, not the "sinless." The "sinless" have no need for God and are their own temple.

Shame (remorse) is a good thing that results from the guilt (knowledge of how we have "fallen short" and sinned). Wallowing in shame as some sort of "pennance" we must "do," Dwelling on the sin and allowing our emotional responses to control our actions, [Lying] to God by saying He "forgives" sinners but MY sin was SO HUGE that even God can't do what He said He would do, ....is NOT a good thing.

It IS Satan whispering in your ear that "God didn't really mean what He said, you will not surely die." We fight this battle every day. Satan may slither back into the shadows for a while, but He doesn't go away and He will continually try to disrupt or break our walk with, and our witness for, Christ. Satan will strike out of the shadows when He sees "weakness." Doubt....good insofaras it prompts us to examine claims and determine if they are in accord with God's Word. Doubt....not good if we begin to believe Satan's lies.

Make no mistake about it, Satan NEVER has your best interest at heart. But God does, and He has promised that ever since the very first promise of our Savior when God told the serpent (Satan) in the Garden of Eden, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." (Gen.3:15 NIV)

Forgive? Trust? Really? Has anything been learned in the past year?

God bless.

KY, I also thought that a post from a while back was appropriate to your question of "finding your way back." So I will post it and hope you find some comfort in it and some understanding of the Love of God for YOU.


(from a past thread:....)
Anne6263 - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have heard through Christian preachers that to truly forgive we must act as if the transgression never happened. Is this the same thing as forgetting that it happened and then setting us up for it to happen again? Is this what God asks of us FH </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anne, in answer to your final question in the above quote let me just say that I do not presume to speak for God. Unlike the prophets, I have had no direct "face to face" conversations with God. He communicates to me through Scripture and through teaching me the hard lessons of life that give (sometimes after hitting me with the "2x4") meaning and reason to the teaching and commands He has, and is, giving me.

So I can only offer you my opinion(s) with respect to your questions. The question about forgiveness that you posed in the quote is one that I have a strong opinion about, and I'll be happy to share it with you. But please understand that it is my opinion, and not a "direct communication from God". It is based on my personal experiences, struggles, and study. Trying to make sense of the "war" between the flesh and the spirit. Trying to submit to God's direction even on those days when I want to scream "unfair!", "impossible!", "it hurts too much to do that!", etc.

Having said that, IMHO, the answer to your question is, "NO, God is NOT asking us to do what you wrote". You are confusing what the preachers are saying with forgetting. You have a memory that is God-given. We are created in God's image. You may, over time, have memories "fade" and have difficulty remembering them, sort of like "where did I put my car keys?" But the memory is there and under the "right" circumstance (ala a "trigger") those memories can be recalled. God never forgets anything. What we are talking about here is a conscious decision. An act of "Free Will", also God-given, whereby we CHOOSE to act, or not act, in a certain way.

When God says that "He will remember our sins no more", He is not saying that He will forget them. God never forgets anything. He is saying that because of the "shed blood of Christ", He CHOOSES to not give us the "just reward/penalty" for our sin. He CHOOSES to "bury" our sins so far away that it is AS IF they are gone from memory and He forgives us because of Jesus&#8217; sacrifice and our repentance of the sin. So when the preachers are saying, "that to truly forgive we must act as if the transgression never happened", they are saying that in order to be "Christ-like", and forgive as we ourselves have been forgiven, we must CHOOSE to act "as if" the sin never happened. We don't forget it, but we choose not to dwell on it, not to let it control our lives, not to seek revenge, not to let it poison our future relationship.

Forgiveness follows repentance. This is especially true with our spouses. How would one expect to have a loving recovery without forgiveness? How would one expect to rebuild a loving, committed relationship if the offending spouse could never believe that we truly forgave and thought of them as "never having sinned"? Now there are some authors who have advocated that you can &#8220;give yourself the gift of forgiveness&#8221; through forgiving someone even if they are unrepentant. While this may be true for some &#8220;minor&#8221; offenses, I personally have trouble accepting this reasoning when it comes to infidelity. This is a marital situation that has violated the marital covenant. To forgive someone without their coming to recognize the wrong that was done and to seek forgiveness as a step in &#8220;making things right&#8221; or showing their remorse for the &#8220;wrong choice&#8221; that was made seems to be merely a way to &#8220;trick&#8221; ourselves into dealing with some of the pain. Where is the &#8220;benefit&#8221; to the person who has done the &#8220;wrong&#8221;? They, in this case, have not sought our forgiveness and refuse to see anything wrong with what they did. I tend to fall back on God&#8217;s model for forgiveness when the covenant is broken. One must first be repentant, and then seek forgiveness before forgiveness can be granted. It is a part of the return, or &#8220;turning from sin&#8221; that the one who has sinned needs. God, for example, does not forgive our sins until we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. It is Christ&#8217;s sacrifice that imparts His righteousness to us and allows God to &#8220;forgive&#8221; us. Were God to grant, &#8220;blanket forgiveness", without the prerequisite of accepting Christ, there would have been no need for Christ to die for us. There is, if you will, a &#8220;cost&#8221; to forgiveness. The cost is recognizing our sin and turning away from it. To forgive without that seems meaningless and may make us feel better psychologically, but it does nothing of any practical value for the sinner until they repent and actually seek to be forgiven, because until then they could care less if you forgive them or not.

Understand that I also recognize, mainly because I also struggle with it, that this "state of mind" does not happen overnight in most cases. It's one of the reasons why we are commanded to forgive "seventy times seven" times, if needed. We live in a "fallen, sinful" body. We live in a fallen world. We are bombarded by humanistic reasoning. We confuse even Scripture from the time of Law versus the time of Grace that we live under today (for example: "an eye for an eye...").

This pain of infidelity is tremendous. The hurt rocks us to our very core. It results in many emotions that, if given free reign, can destroy, paralyze, or cripple us. But, through Christ's blood, we don't have to succumb to those human emotions. We can "rise above it". We can follow Christ's example and teaching. We can embrace that God the Father "knows best" and tries to teach us the better way because He does love us and wants the best for us. He CAN take a terrible thing and help us to learn some good things from it. It's NOT denying the evil, the sin, and the pain. It's teaching us how to respond to evil things and how to grow closer to God in our responses. It's teaching us WHOM to trust first and foremost. Why? Because there will always be some dark and stormy days in our lives. It is in the nature of living in a fallen sinful world. It is because we "war" with ourselves, our selfish natures, and our sense of "self-preservation". It is because the "forces of darkness" wage a constant battle to get us to turn our backs on God and to do evil and sinful things.

Self-sacrifice, "turning the other cheek", sacrificial love, patience, trust, endurance, etc. are not natural things for us. We have to learn them and we have to CHOOSE to behave in those ways, especially during the dark days. That is the essence of what Joseph went through. He had all the same emotional responses, had the anger, fears, feeling of abandonment, etc. that are normal to humans. Yet, he learned that "what you meant for evil, God intended for good". The events were evil. But God can, when we are willing, take even evil things and help us to find good. To find things that allow us to grow and not become bitter. To bring us face to face with our emotions and recognize that actions based on emotions can, and usually will, betray us and cause more harm.

And just as a side note, dwelling, to me, means never "letting go" of the hurts and trusting God. Understand that I don't think that we are "dwelling" on the sin when we take the time to deal with each pain and hurt. We are not "dwelling" on the sin when we talk things through with our spouse. Yes, our spouse may well want to "forget it", to "get over it", or any number of responses that say, "let's not talk about it anymore". But the reality is that while some things can be "let go" easily, some of these things are essential to healing. They must be brought out into the "light of day" and looked at to decide what changes we might have to make to ask for forgiveness, to repent, to figure out why something happened or was chosen, to jointly figure out ways to minimize or eliminate the chance of a sinful reoccurrence.

But when we forgive, we must not use the offense as a club for the future. Forgiven MEANS forgiven as God sees it. "Gone, but not forgotten" might be a simple way of viewing it. So we don't incessantly "bring up" the offense every time that there is a future disagreement. We don't "forgive until I need a club" to "win" the next argument or disagreement. That is not the same thing as taking the time that is necessary to work through the issues, to revisit commitment and failures (i.e. re-contact), and review again what we need to do to be obedient to God and to our covenant. In essence we BOTH need to recognize that WHATEVER we choose to do only WE OURSELVES can choose. No one can force change upon us. We choose to follow God or we choose to follow the "god of this world". In choosing to follow God and to make the changes that are necessary within us, we also effect a change in our relationship and become more concerned for the other's well being. We begin to "humbly submit" to one another because we love each other and don't want to be the source of "hurt" to our spouses anymore. That applies to both of us. We change. Some things we change quickly and some things we work on because they are "stubborn", have become a "habit", are "comfortable" ways of behaving, and change is uncomfortable.

And it is, IMHO, essential that that we recognize and accept that these changes are NOT linear. They do NOT happen at the same rate of speed. Hence the need for patience. Sure, we would like it to be "fixed" today, but the reality is that it is going to take time whether we like it or not. We need to understand and be ready to patiently accept that it might take the "average recovery period of two years", or it might take "as long for the BS to recover as it took the WS to get into and out of the affair". In short, we have to buckle down for the long haul. For the ride to run it's "full course". For the ups and downs, the twists and turns, the elation and the fears, the struggles as we seem to take two steps forward and one step backward. A lot of clichés, I know. But in the past year I have learned that they ARE real. It DOES take much patience and it DOES take forgiving over and over again as circumstances warrant. It DOES take daily CHOICES in how we will behave and how we will react. Sometimes it just takes enduring the present moment and clinging to God&#8217;s promises.

It takes an understanding that we are all learners; we have not "learned it all". We learn new skills in conversation, in relating, in being sensitive, in loving, in the meaning of what a marital covenant truly entails. We learn "hard work", we learn to Trust and that trusting, by definition, opens ourselves up to future hurt and/or betrayal. We accept the "risk", but this time we accept it with a much better understanding that it is a conscious CHOICE that we make. We begin to appreciate that Jesus "trusted" God, that Jesus "trusted" that even though his "bride" might sin again, that He would trust us enough to die for us so that we could learn when we fall and be "reunited" with him. I am quite sure that it still hurts Him when we stumble and sin. Yet He trusts us anew each time we seek forgiveness and recommit our lives to Him. That is the model. Trust, unless given a reason not to trust. Then, upon repentance, forgive and give trust again because we BOTH need it, we both need to learn from our mistakes and try our best to not repeat the same mistakes in the future.

Is this "review" period disquieting? Can it be painful? Can it cause a "chilling of the 'good recovery' atmosphere that we enjoy between such discussions? Sure. But that is one of the consequences of sin. It is NOT easily dealt with. It takes time, commitment, and much patience. It takes putting into practice "what I preach". It's very easy to say, "YOU should behave in such and such a manner". It's entirely different when you have to CHOOSE to actually behave that way yourself, especially when you FEEL like you want to rant and rave and scream and hit and run away. This is when the "rubber meets the road". It is using our Free Will to act in humble obedience to God even when our human nature yells at us to "give in" to our fallible emotions. Or in the terms of MB, to allow our "Taker" free reign and push our "Giver" out of the way.

To paraphrase JFK, &#8220;ask not what your spouse can do for you, but what you can do for your spouse&#8221;. It&#8217;s not easy. But in accepting the harm that has been done and looking forward to a renewed and &#8220;better&#8221; marriage, we focus on needed changes and focus on what a &#8220;better&#8221; future might be like. We set a &#8220;goal&#8221; for that better future and relegate the past to an &#8220;event&#8221; along the way that we learn from and become aware of how a marriage needs to be maintained and not just &#8220;taken for granted&#8221;. As in most things, change begins with just ONE person making a decision to change their own self. That, more often than not, is seen by the spouse and motivates them to begin to make changes for the better of themselves and the marriage.

&#8220;To err is human, to forgive is divine&#8221;, as someone once said. How many times have we heard or said, &#8220;I can&#8217;t forgive this, that, or the other&#8221;? Certainly many of us have thought or said, &#8220;If you cheat on me, I&#8217;m out of here!&#8221; Then along comes Reality and hits us between the eyes, smacks us in the gut, stomps on us and leaves us bleeding and bewildered, angry and feeling hopelessly betrayed. THAT is when we begin to make CHOICES. To fight for our marriages, to make changes in ourselves, to begin to understand the &#8220;cost&#8221; of love can be emotionally high as well as exhilarating. We learn quickly that none of us are infallible. We all make mistakes, both large and small. We begin, perhaps for the first time, to really think about what our marriage vows mean and decide to run or fight. We recognize that we cannot control everything. That there will always be a &#8220;risk&#8221; of getting hurt again, but we LOVE. We love to the best of our ability. We learn to talk and actually communicate, even when the subject is difficult or causes some additional pain, because we know that the past way of doing things did NOT work, so we will change that too.

We will never be the same again, recovery or not. We have learned. We have looked at our own shortcomings and see the result of neglect, self-centeredness, the inability or refusal to understand the differences between men and women and their needs. So we CHOOSE. We can run and hide and say, &#8220;I&#8217;m okay, you are the one with problem&#8221;. OR we face reality and CHOOSE to fight, to make the changes in ourselves, to help our spouse to make changes they want to make, to restore trust, to recognize that our marriage is God&#8217;s marriage with us and that we are not in the struggle alone.

We CHOOSE to forgive ourselves and our spouse. We ask for forgiveness when we recognize what we did wrong. We grant forgiveness when our spouse repents also and is need of our forgiveness. We do NOT reserve a part of the forgiveness in order to &#8220;keep the upper hand&#8221; or to use as a weapon in the future. We Trust because we need to trust our spouse and our spouse needs to know that trust can be regained. We repeat the cycle of forgiveness and trust as often as it becomes necessary because we are all LEARNERS in the game of recovery and the rebuilding of our marriages. We do this because over all of the ups and downs, fears and uncertainties, we choose to LOVE. We begin to grasp a little about what AGAPE LOVE means. It is a choice that is summed up and a choice that is given in Scripture quite well&#8230;.&#8221;and the greatest of these is love&#8221;.

God bless and grant us all wisdom to understand and strength to endure and humility to accept His teaching.

Bob is right, Jelly. Forgive yourself. Give yourself permission and get on with gettin on. Please. You are a worthy and lovely human....you are gracious and giving. Do not let your past inequities define your relationship with God. He has heard your confessions and has already forgiven and forgotten. To keep bringing it up with Him is an affront. It's like someone saying, "Are you sure, are you sure, are you sure you want me?" over and over and over....you've got kids....if they came to you over and over and over about the same thing, wouldn't you get a little fed up?

A perfect stranger (okay, maybe I'm a little more strange than stranger...strangest?) loves and accepts you....why can't you do the same for yourself? Why are holding this so close? Why, JellyBing, why? Are you afraid of letting this go? Are you afraid that you will lose your humility or humanity if you do? What compells you to keep such a firm grasp on something you find so hurtful?

(((JELLY)))

You are allowing this "thing" to rule over the rest of your life if you don't loosen your grasp on it and finally let it go. That "thing" is not you....it's not what makes you gracious and giving, it's not the laughing lady with the flashing brown eyes who loves God and her family more now than she ever has. Do not let it taint you anymore. Please. To allow it to dictate your relationship with God will let the evil win.

- Kimmy

JEC47 - absolutely we can do this together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Did you go to the link FH posted. It is wonderful. Lots of learning material in that link, I recommend it for you.

DipiT, You got me thinking, and I absolutely need to take this upon myself, I need to be accountable for my walk with the Lord. I can not wait for my H to lead me, I can not hide behind my shame and guilt, I need to move forward. Thank you.

Kimmy, I was in tears before I even read your post, you are so darn sweet and kind, you went looking for my thread, like the great friend that you are. I love you, Kimmy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You are allowing this "thing" to rule over the rest of your life if you don't loosen your grasp on it and finally let it go. That "thing" is not you....it's not what makes you gracious and giving, it's not the laughing lady with the flashing brown eyes who loves God and her family more now than she ever has. Do not let it taint you anymore. Please. To allow it to dictate your relationship with God will let the evil win.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm so glad I posted this thread, I have learned so much. I need to realize there will be those people, self righteous people, who want me to struggle with my sin for the rest of my life, and who will only see me as the homewrecker but that is not what God wants, and he is who I need to live my life for, not the others, not myself.

FH, you are such a blessing to me in such a great time of need. Your words and knowledge that you have shared have helped me tremendously. Thank you for the link, I will be printing that up as well. I'm going to take this A apart and make myself a list of all the things I need to forgive myself for. I will do this in pieces, like it suggestions, I have tried on the grand scale and I have gotten no where, so I will try this, I believe it is exactly what I need. Thank you so much.

Yesterday, ST, DS and I went to breakfast. Grandpa John walked in, OM's W's grandpa. He walked in past us, I wanted to run and hide and cry because of the amount of shame I was feeling.

I was anxious and nervous, then he got up from his table and headed to ours. He spoke of nothing, but it said so much to me. He did not see me as the tramp down the road. He saw me as one of God's children. I hurt his grand daughter so much, yet he could chat with us in such a non-judgmental way. John has always impressed me, but not as much as he did yesterday.

Thank you God for showing me Christian love and kindness.

KY

KY and all those who have posted here,

i want to thank you for starting and contributing to this thread. i was reading it, i just could not post. i am struggling with a lot of the same stuff. so thanks. Karen