Go buy some nice tins and I'll send you my bourbon ball recipe. It won't even take you an afternoon to make all of em, and hey! The upside is that you get to eat the leftovers (hic)! There's absolutely no baking involved either (which is always a plus)....

I made them for the SO one year. One of the deputies ate 2 and blew a .07 on the breathalizer....OOPS!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Funny thing is, I dropped by the office a couple of days ago and they were already asking when I was gonna make them.....dorks!

YOU MUST BUY A GOOD KENTUCKY BOURBON to use, tho....Canadians are GREAT at maple syrup and candies but KENTUCKY bourbon rocks (that being said by the gal born in KY).

Ohhh those sound good. Post the recipe here for all of us!

Gray --

All the angry stuff that you want to send Sparrow's way has to go somewhere else.

You know me, now, and you know that I struggle with my own ugly underside with great regularity.

Join me in the fight, my man. Rant -- and then take your rants apart and WIN at this by doing the right thing (which is different than being nice).

Courtesy in the face of this stuff is more powerful than you would ever imagine, because it puts YOU back in balance. That's good stuff. You do not have to rant like a wild man, even when you want to. The ultimate in self-discipline. Not something I ever really wanted, but I seem to have it in spades anyway.

You're right, J. I've started to let friends and family influence me a little more than I should. Over the months, many of them have encouraged actions that I've judged as snotty, spiteful, and belligerent. I've resisted until now, always telling folks that that kind of behavior only diminishes me.

I'll pack the stuff, all nice like.

GC

I've said it before, and I'll say it again for good measure: Gray, you've handled yourself with dignity to spare. I've NO doubt you will continue to do so...

(doesn't hurt to fantisize about not being dignified now and then)

Your behaviour has been a lighthouse for some of us.

well gray the timing couldn't be more apprapo (sp?) i am just back from my trip and i had to deal w/this very thing-what to do w/the stuff. because of what my h has done i do not feel an obligation to share any of the pictures w/him. certainly i would not give any of the wedding stuff or anything else for that matter, it means to much to me. i may not be able to look at it for awhile and someday i may throw all of it away but once you throw it out or give it away, that's it. you can't get it back. when i went to our house the end of june i brought back w/me all our home movies and photo albums, i just didn't feel safe leaving them there.

i was anxious to see what stuff he had taken when i arrived at our house. it was actually kind of surprising to see what things he took and what he didn't, and at times didn't even make sense. i noticed right away a few things that he took that i had wanted and he didn't even bother to ask. now a blender and laundry baskets may not seem like much to some people but it was more of the principle to consider. a few months a go he had asked if he could have this one picture of one of our dogs and i said he could but yet it was still at the house. he did however, take another picture of both the dogs that he did not ask if he could have and it urked me.

so before we were to meet the next day i called and said there was some things that i wanted that he took so he brought them w/him to the resturaunt we met at. he agreed to the division of the household goods that i had proposed. i wanted to be the one that handled everything w/dignitiy and grace and treat my husband better then he treated me. there was a clothes hamper full of dirty items that has been there since i was at our house the end of june. when i emptied it it was full of a bunch of his dirty clothes. so i washed, dried, and folded them and put them in a box a long w/his other stuff.

he had left some stuff that i had given him and i didn't want them back so i packed them in w/the rest of the stuff he left. all my stuff was moved out by last saturday and he was going to pick up his stuff on sunday. i was leaving the area on saturday so we wouldn't have to see each other again. i left a long letter telling him that i changed my mind about the picture that he took and that i wanted him to have it because after all i had the real thing. in actuality what i had thought was that he would have to think about "things" every time he looked at that picture at to me that was "priceless." i also told him that i had packed some other things that he had left or over looked that either i had given him or that were given to him by other people and that i didn't want them back.

so that's it in a large nutshell about the stuff. i know for a fact i still have some stuff that is his and when i come across it again i will send it to him but that's at my pace not his.

gray, it's okay to be where you are "at" i'm sorry that things had to come to the way they are w/my h. but i do not want this and i did not seek this. i'm at a place where i'm detached now and in self-preservation. i actually think my mom who went w/me to our house was more upset then i was. as far as your IL's well i know it's easier said then done but don't feel guilty about going to plan B when it comes to them. it kind of goes back to tension that will inevitibly be caused between the WS/OP and the WS's having to live w/their choices.

take care, RR

Good to hear from you, RR. It sounds like your trip wasn't too horrible.

My in-laws have started being very kind again since plan B. My SIL has exchanged a few good emails with me, and I had a wonderful phone conversation with MIL last Friday.

I don't feel the need to plan B with them. In fact, I'm thinking about sending cards and gifts to the sparrow's aunts and cousins during the holidays. They've always been very good to me, and I want to thank them for welcoming me into their family.

Another of my problems right now is that I'm having a hard time seeing the last 11 years with my W as anything but a waste. I know it's best to remember the good things and leave it at that. Unfortunately, I'm having lots of stupid "western" thoughts, like if I'd known this was going to happen ten years ago, I'd have never married her. Dumb, but irresistable for my American brain.

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> if I'd known this was going to happen ten years ago, I'd have never married her. Dumb, but irresistable for my American brain.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then I belong in Idiotville. I look at my poor babies and think that if I knew what their dad would do the them, I'd have never had them. My poor kids...they so didn't deserve this.

gray:

What's wrong with "western thoughts?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

"they've come all the way out here to make mining claims, to do
automobile body work, to gamble, to take pictures, to not have to do
laundry, to own a mini-bike, to have their own cb radios and air
conditioning, good plumbing for sure, and to sell time/life books and to
work in a deli, to have some chili every morning and maybe...maybe to own
their own gas stations again and to take drugs and have some crazy sex,
but above all, above all to have a fair shake, to get a piece of the rock
and a slice of the pie and to spit out the window of your car and not
have the wind blow it back in your face."

-Wall of Voodoo "Call of the West"

Okay, so it's a tad off topic! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-kid 2long

I figured I could discreetly chime in about the latest MB righteousness war without anything getting started. The ones who've been playing verbal paintball probably won't read the post.

I pounced harshly on a new WS once. I think I apologized for it. But I might have driven that person away, and I'm sorry for that.

I'm glad there are so many people who stayed out of the brawling. Enough said. Yakkity yak.

I'm having a tough time with some mutual friends right now. They want to stay friends with both me and the sparrow, and so in the interest of not "getting in the middle", they are uncomfortable talking with me about my W and her A and its effect on me. But if they're my friends, isn't it fair for me to expect them to show me some support and not make me feel troublesome for talking about my situation?

I haven't tried to conspire with them. I just need them to be my friends. And right now, if you're going to be my friend, unfortunately, you're going to have to suffer through some P&Ming from me now and then.

Am I expecting too much from them?

GC

GC..

We do not have "mutual friends", not really..if they are close friends. Mine or his. Lines get drawn in these situations almost unavoidably.

Family too.

Dogs? That's a tough call.

Fish are [censored] and don't love anyone..fortunately they are expendable [and edible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ]

I'd probably gather the real friends close to me..and let the rest drift away as it is their desire, almost certainly, since the two of you are no fun any more.

--Noodle

Noodle, I love these people. I've lost enough. Maybe part of my wish to keep them is another "attachment" I need to free myself of. I'm sick of losing is all.

GC

I understand, but you can't lay claim to what does not belong to you. It is possible that these people meant more to you than you meant to them. I hate to say that, as you are obviously feeling down..but these are fair weather friends..here for the good times..lets ignore the bad. Or they are her friends and just don't want to have to tell you where their loyalty lies. Either way..you can't force them to give unwillingly..I'd seek out the friends who love, support, and are faithfull to you.

--Noodle

similar experience (kind of), i had sent an email to a couple of friends that have had only limited contact w/my H over the years. anyway, i was just giving an update as to what was going on in order to help guide them in their prayers. i wasn't telling them how to pray only that i thought they should know what was going on in order for them to pray for what was on their heart. i did not bash my H or whine, etc. only just reported what was going on. well, one friend who i hadn't even heard from in months and not even that much over the past years starts going off on me and my h basically told me that she could have told me this would have happened a long time ago and that i need to divorce him and get on w/my life. i was really taken back by this. i second guess myself in what i was telling a few friends and even called one of them. i told this other friend about this friend who went off on me and what she thought. my friend (i know confusing huh?) said that if i'm not able to lay down what's on my heart to a friend without getting ripped a new one then they are not really my friend.

i didn't reply right away to the friend who went off on me. only to say that i got the message and wanted to think about what she said and get back to her. well before i had a chance to do that something happened w/my H and i emailed another update to these same friends. well the friend that went off on me come back and says "did you not listen to anything i said?" and goes off on me again. the old me would have went off on her but i decided to be the better person because i could have said the same thing about her current marriage and just wrote back "thanks for her concern and hope the you will still pray for me." ever since then i have not emailed her anything about what's going on.

so that's my take on it, my 2 cents is that it is not an unreasonable expectation to be able to talk to your friends and for them to show genuine support and encouragement given the situation.

One last post for the day.

I'm all over the map, emotionally. I was in major self-pity for a day - put it on a separate post to keep from clogging this journal with P&Ming.

I still haven't responded to SIL about when the sparrow can come get more of her stuff. I have not had time to pack anything, and I have not been motivated to do it.

Today I did a crazy thing, just to try it on. I checked out women at a dating site. It made me feel lightheaded and sick, then I saw the bio of a woman close to my age, new in town, just moved to the states.

Before you flip out, never mind. Here's what she wrote in her bio.

The most important thing is trust in each other, that has to be built over a certain time. Both have to work on a relationship to let it survive. I would never cheat on anybody!!!

And...

What I've learned from my past relationships: Promises are made quite easily. You need to trust your instincts. There will never be 100% safety. Keep your own live, don't become dependent on each other. You have to be happy with yourself first before you can start to love another person. After a break up you have to be a certain time on your own before you get into the next relationship.

My new girlfriend. Wait, wait. I could never do that to Naomi.

GC

I'm really slacking on getting the sparrow's remaining stuff packed up.

I'm not dragging it out on purpose, consciously at least.

But I have so much to do all the time, and when my other chores and obligations are done, I'm just not motivated. It's an unpleasant task.

But I also don't want her in the house. If I have it my way, she won't set foot in our house again.

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she won't set foot in our house again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">in YOUR house, sweetheart....in YOUR house.

Now Kimmy, don't you tempt me to get belligerent.

We were at the dump last year, and the sparrow saw an old clawfoot tub sitting there, extremely nasty. Badly painted and full of dirt and guck. She wanted it, said she'd restore it. So we took it, hauled it to the carwash and cleaned it out, best we could. It's sat in the garage ever since.

I've a thought to dump her stuff into that tub and leave it sitting there in the garage with a note attached. "Here you go, darlin'".

Stupid high road!

GC

Instead of doing that, put the damn thing in your backyard and make a coy pond or a fountain out of it. There is no sense in wasting a claw footed tub....you'd better keep the thing, or I'm coming up there snow or no snow and kicking your [censored].

- Kimmy

Spoke with car4love tonight. We hadn't spoken in a while. Much less since my plan B. A few emails, that's all. We don't seem to need each other as much as we did before. She's doing her best approximation of plan B. She only answers emails about her DD, and only sees OM at exchanges, with minimal conversation.

I let her tell me what the affair partners did on Halloween eve. OM and sparrow and the little girl rode up to where OM's family live, and spent the evening with them. Stayed over, all that. Not the first time.

I wish sort of that I didn't know. It did hurt to hear it. Maybe I waited too long for plan B. I don't feel like much of a marriage builder any more, even though I still feel this loss acutely.

The sparrow's family have most of them avoided OM completely. MIL and SFIL want nothing to do with him. So the two spend time with OM's accepting family. They've found a safe place there.

I suppose they figure if they can just ride this out, the rest of the world will grow to accept them and everything will be groovy. I suppose eventually it will, and as long as their consciences can bear it, they'll be fine.

And car4love and I get to start over from scratch.

GC