Thanks, CJ. So much. These are things I know, but my mind has trouble articulating them intellectually when it's all so wrapped up in emotions.

Well, I spoke too soon. Today I received a letter from the sparrow's lawyer. She is working on it after all.

I think I'm starting to hate her a little.

GC

still thinking of you....

well i guess you got your answer, there are pros and cons to everything GC and everything happens for a reason. she apparently is deciding your timeline for you and since you know you can't control her then this is okay. it's just some more choices that she will be the one that has to live with the choices and they ARE choices. she may not like the choices but it's still her choice to do what she's doing. it's different for the BS when it comes to filing because we are not the ones that has done wrong, we've been wronged and our choices are based on a lot more information and logical sense then what the WS have.

things will still not be done overnight....people still change their mind. it could be that sparrow will change her mind before the D is final should it come to that or maybe she might change her mind afterwards. maybe you will change your mind before the D is final in that you want it to be final and don't want her back (this is where i am) or you could still not want the D but it happens and even if she wanted to come back, maybe again you may not want her back.

continued prayers to you, RR

Thank you RR. I consider myself strong, but I have this new letter from the sparrow's lawyer, and having read it and sent an email in response to my own attorney, I feel all the energy has been taken out of me.

I look at the work on my computer, and I can't focus my mind on it at all.

Maybe I'm not so tough after all. At least when this is all over with I'll be free. Right now I feel like giving up. I'm so sick of pain. I've had enough. Sure, I'll get some more in my life, but this heap is just too damned big to swallow all at once.

I sort of keep a journal, and occasionally I jot down thoughts to include in a "goodbye letter" to my wife. Last night I started writing and couldn't stop. I filled pages and pages and pages.

GC

well sweetie, what did the letter say from the sparrow and her lawyer? do you want to talk about it more?

you can always email me at chewey75@hotmail.com just put marriage builders or graycloud in the subject line so that i know who it's from. i know you are sick hearing this but it will be okay, i know you have felt another punch in the stomach and even though you were pretty much expecting it, it still hurts. believe me when i say that i NEVER could have imagined that i would be where i am emotionally and mentally, but i am. i have arrived and it is absolutely wonderful. you will too, you are almost there as it is.

God Bless, RR

The most annoying things in the letter:

She refuses to give back my email, saying that the account is "hers". I don't know why she should give me static about this. I neglected to take the payments off the credit card we shared (which is in her name), but the account was in my name! She has nothing to lose by cooperating with this request, unless she's printed all my emails out and stuck them in a big folder to try to use against me. Or to help OM use against car4love.

The letter complains that my refusal to communicate with the sparrow will "cause both parties to incur more attorney fees" in resolving the division of property.

That's probably a foundation to sue me for legal fees if I should grow belligerent and stop cooperating with the process.

I responded that I gave her a means of communicating, and that my reason for avoiding direct communication with her is to protect myself from emotional abuse.

I'll probably have to have a face-to-face with my attorney over this one. Ah, another $200 meeting!

RR, things have seemed to change dramatically for you since your WH dropped off the dogs. Of course, that's a few months back now.

Your trouble started about three months before mine. I wonder if I'll be on a similar schedule. I have told friends that if I wind up divorced, I'm not going to wait to date until my original deadline. Next Mem. Day will be the start of "GC's Freedom Summer" if I'm divorced.

With things as they are, my motivation to remain loyal is diminished even more. I'm not altogether repulsive, and I'm tired of being such a damned loner.

GC

GC,

I know that feeling of staring at the computer screen and not being able to concentrate. Sigh. I don't care what ya say, I know that it hurts to get those lawyer papers, and you know what else? There is no person on here who doesn't feel a bit weak when vicious communication comes from someone they love.

Yeah, you heard me. You still love her, and parts of you always will because she was your wife and your partner, and parts of HER made you the man you are today. You hate the choices she has made. You hate that she refuses to love you. You hate that she could treat you so badly when you once loved her. You hate that you are going to lose so much. But...you don't hate her.

GC, you know my email--drop me a line if you need to. Otherwise, you know what? You ARE pretty strong, because you are gettting through a DIVORCE with grace, dignity, and character. *THAT* is inner strength!!


CJ

GC, all i can say as to what the latest from sparrow and her lawyer is that it's all about the sparrow and and what she is trying to do to make herself feel better or justify what she's doing. why else would someone refuse to give back the emails and say what she has about you not talking to her?

i know about those attorney fees! whew! makes me almost wish i would have filed myself a long time ago.

anyway, yes, things have dramatically changed for me over the last few months and maybe i'll give an update someday. but basically, the bottom line was that i realized i didn't want my H back and i knew it wasn't God's will for us to get back and God wanted better things and a better husband for me. so once i came to that realization and that my h would reap what he has sown someday, even if it's in his children's lives or when he stands before God. it was easy for me to really let go and move on.

i gotta go for the day, it's okay to dream about the future and even one that doesn't include the sparrow can really be wonderful as much as that may hurt to "hear."

have a good rest of the day, prayers to you, RR

I guess all I can do is be decent and not help my W justify anything. She'll take any little scrap she can get though. Pffft! Griping about me refusing to have any contact with her. Not because it makes her feel bad, but because it makes things more expensive.

I am very angry right now. When you bend over backward to be good to someone and they just continue on ruining your life, I suppose it's natural to once in a while just feel like you want to push them down. I went to the Y tonight and swam until I couldn't swim no more, then I went and played music, and I still feel hostile.

Oh, the sparrow got her stuff out of the garage today. I see a pattern here... nothing happens for a month, then bang! A big flurry of activity.

If I were forced to talk to her right now, I think all I'd do is ask one question.

"Who are you?"

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> I guess all I can do is be decent ...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep...and be decent according to your own standard of what is "decent"...certainly not hers and not what other people think. GC, if you can hold yourself to your own high standards, it does help a little; you can hold your head up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Griping about me refusing to have any contact with her. Not because it makes her feel bad, but because it makes things more expensive. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Haha! Oh, those funny WS's! I love this one. They gripe because we BS's don't let them keep hurting us, but boy if we do one little thing that hurts them, we are being inconsiderate. I LOVE it! Seriously! They leave their homes, families, children, obligations and commitments...and then whine because we don't treat them nice!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

(Wiping the tears from my eyes) Whew, okay. I actually have a suggestion that will take the wind out of her sails. In order to minimize expenses, why don't you send her a proposed settlement agreement?

In the lovely state of Colorado (a no-fault state, BTW), we were able to save considerable time and money by using a mediator-type person and sending each other proposed settlements. My exH's first proposed settlement was 1) I get full custody and he gets visitation (BOOM! We agreed); 2) We split holidays 50/50 (Boom! We agreed); 3) He paid for the house with his inheritance money so he gets to keep the whole house and all the proceeds (NOPE! Disagreed); and 4) He pays no alimony or child support (NOPE! Disagreed).

I shot back to him: Agree on #1 and #2 here's my suggested wording; Disagree on #3 and #4, I suggest selling the house and splitting proceeds because it was our marital family home purchased with marital family money--and I suggest no alimony (I can work and support myself) but you DEFINITELY pay child support and contribute to your own children financially.

He shot bact to me: Agree #1 and #2--your wording is fine. #3, agree to split it 50/50. #4, no way--no payments until a judge forces me.

I finalized with: #1 and #2 are agreed. #3, agree to split 60/40 with 60 going into kid's college funds. #4 let's let a judge decree the amount, because I AM going to pursue child support.

And with that, he agreed/I agreed, our costs were minimized by only four meetings with a third party present, and we let the judge tell us the CS amount. Done deal AND costs were kept as low as possible.

Dude, my point here is that you could send her any agreement you find reasonable, and it doesn't have to be in legaleze. Just use a third party to find the "Agreement" and then let the lawyers write up a draft, finese it, and double check it. Does that make sense??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am very angry right now. When you bend over backward to be good to someone and they just continue on ruining your life, I suppose it's natural to once in a while just feel like you want to push them down. I went to the Y tonight and swam until I couldn't swim no more, then I went and played music, and I still feel hostile.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dude, it is reasonable and natural for you to feel angry. When Bob Pure wrote his OM-hating, physically violent diatribe that one night, I knew that Bob wouldn't actually go and do those horrific things. It's just a very dark, angry, revenge thing that BS's often feel but don't have the guts to say out loud. Keep swimming. That's probably one of the best ways to expend that energy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Oh, the sparrow got her stuff out of the garage today. I see a pattern here... nothing happens for a month, then bang! A big flurry of activity.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep. She builds up to facing what she can not possibly avoid any longer. Then, she comes in on the attack after doing nothing for a long time. Meanwhile, you are relatively caught off-guard because after such a long period of "peace" it's a surprise to be slapped in the face again.

Sigh. This is HARD stuff, huh?? It's okay. You're doing well, even though I know it doesn't feel that way...you are. Let this day end.


CJ

hope you are doing better today so far. i just emailed you, RR

I'd have never thought the advice CJ gave me, to "let this day end", would seem so profound.

I have unpleasant tasks ahead. I dread them. Official things. Transfering car titles, etc.

I have financial worries ahead. Keeping the house is going to be tough, and I need to find solutions to that problem.

But not today.

GC

Tuesday I put out a call to several friends, that if they knew anybody who needed a place to live, could they put the person in touch with me.

Today I've been exchanging emails with a friend of a friend who is very interested; she needs a place for 4-5 months.

I don't know why, but I'm very excited about this development. I guess because it feels like taking charge.

GC

good for you! still haven't gotten your email reply but i'm glad you are still around. i'll be out of my office most of the day anyway. have a good weekend and keep us posted on the renter, prayers to you, RR

... wish I had something new to write about today.

GC

I wish you did too, it's hard to reply to one liners.

How about......

Naw, probably not.

Maybe..........

Shoot, I don't know.

Maybe we could talk about the weather? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Any vegatables you don't care for?

Any you really like?

Maybe I have a reason, maybe I don't. Humor me.

SS

Sorry to "hear" that things have not been too easy for you, gc..just wanted to stop in and give a hug.

GC,

I also wanted to let you know that I got your e-mail and look forward to the next one. and thank you.

Thanks, Maddy. I know exactly what you mean about working hard to convey meaning in something you write and then having people miss half of what you put down.

Okay, SS. I like pea pods, roasted root vegetables, those skinny French green beans, mushrooms, black beans, taters, and I like fresh greens. Not the bitter ones so much. I love rocket. Really anything fresh. I love endives. And chilis. And I think onions are miraculous. Shallots, garlic. And that stuff that smells like licorice, darn it, what's it called?

I like most things. Usually if I think I don't like something, I figure it's just because I haven't had it right. Still haven't had beets right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Last night I was up all night. But for a good reason. My friends had their CD release gig, and there was a party before and a party after. Crazy. I'm tired, but thankful that I didn't have much to drink.

I spent the day completely alone. Hardly made a peep, except when I was working on some music. A good, quiet day.

Tomorrow I'm hosting a band meeting. Gotta get up early and make chili. Nighty night, MB chums.

GC

Having been through the demands for communication when there was a child involved (and therefore a MUCH better argument in favor of communication), the argument of "you're making me spend money" just made me laugh. I do love the things people get riled up about!

Anyway, it looks to me like the sparrow is indeed upset about it... and the attorney added the part about the expense. The attorney needs a practical/rational reason for the upset. He can't very well say "Your wife is pissed at you for refusing to talk to her!" because that would look contradictory to her stated goal, which is a divorce. (People who are getting divorces are not exactly the most linear and consistent folks in the world. That applies to both BS and WS, too!)

Your response is exactly the right one. You do not want to be hurt further, you provided a non-lawyer method of communication, and her choice not to use those methods of communication are not your problem.


Oh, and fennel is the name of the vegetable you're thinking of, GC.

The best way I've had beets is when they're peeled, then coated with a little olive oil, a little salt, and a little pepper. Roast or broil 'em in the oven. Eat. Be very happy.

OK,
SS takes out pencil -

I like pea pods,

Cool, after I shell the peas, I can send him the pods. I wonder if he means the edible pod ones? Hmmm, maybe I ought to table this one.


roasted root vegetables,
Carrots, turnips, beets. Oh, no he said no beets. Lets see, potatoes? No, the potato is an underground fruit, not a root. I wish i had taken more botany. Parsnips, sweet potatoes, there have to be more. I'll think on this one.

those skinny French green beans, mushrooms, black beans, taters, and I like fresh greens.

He mentions taters here, so he must of meant the other root vegies. I don't grow mushrooms, but I have some I am not sure about - mushrooms, toadstools, mushrooms, toadstools - maybe if I send them, he can try them out for me. Should I tell him first? What to do, what to do.

Not the bitter ones so much.

Bitter greens? Which ones are bitter? Not spinich, or chard. They are probably OK.


I love rocket. Really anything fresh. I love endives. And chilis. And I think onions are miraculous. Shallots, garlic. And that stuff that smells like licorice, darn it, what's it called?

Rocket? You have me there. What the heck is rocket?
Smells like licorice ?? got me there too.


I like most things. Usually if I think I don't like something, I figure it's just because I haven't had it right. Still haven't had beets right.

As a kid, I hated beets. As a gardner....... pick them, take them in the house, wash them, cook them,(I steam them) a little butter, dash of salt. Mmmmmm. Fresh makes all the difference - at least to me.

Actually, I grow a small garden. Warm enough here to grow a winter one. (Turnips, carrots, onions, spinich.) I wonder if I sent something if it would freeze in the package before the UPS guy could deliver it.

Also, if you come out next summer, I wondered if you would like some produce for your trip. Some people don't care for veggies, so I asked.

How about squash?

Anyway, thanks for the info, I'll file it away for future reference. If I forget, I'll ask again.

Doesn't hurt to have a little fun anyway.

I plan on doing lots of the edible pod peas this spring - we'll see how they do.

I like to garden, but I am not a gardner.

Does this work for something new to talk about?

SS

<small>[ December 12, 2004, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>