Definatly doesn't hurt less - I would agree with you there. The ONLY plus side to not having children is that there is the option to permanently sever all ties and move on without a constant 'in your face' update through the mouths of kids. When children are involved the ties can never be totally severed - and you have to put up with other people helping to raise your children. It's not more or less traumatic - it's just another venue of icky.

Gray - not that it's any consolation to you right now - but when I went through boxes of things and found pictures and reminders and notes etc... I found myself dealing with rushes of emotion as well. She can't help but be feeling much of the same way as you are - no matter how big of a bandaid she's tried to put on herself. It may not change her mind - but just know that this isn't as easy for her as she makes it out to be.

Gray,

You are a better man than you know - and you'll feel it when you read this.

I can't make it easier, but YOU WILL MAKE IT. I don't have instructions for getting from here to there, but you will make it.

I looked at the garden, the peas are coming up. New life, spring.

You will yet see spring again, have faith. Winter is long, and it's cold, but spring always comes.

SS

Bad, bad, bad.

Sparrow expects me to buy her out of the house with cash, rather than with my annuity. Even though she knows that this cash does not exist.

She's showing every inclination that she's going to force me to sell the house. But a referee will be involved next week, so maybe I shouldn't panic.

GC

Aw, gc!

That pukes!

Any chance that, if they decide you DO need 2 pay with cash (ridiculous on the face of it), that you could make payments? Like, say, 5 bucks a month for the next 3000 years?

I say push back. (but then I'm feeling mischevous) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

best,
-ol' 2long

2long, I'm wearing gloves to court next week. I hope the referee recognizes that since none of my assets are liquid, I should not be expected to make them so in order to keep my home.

There's a perfectly good solution where she gets her fair share, has some available as cash each year, and it's all done.

But she wants the cash.

Foghead. I'm shakin' a little.

GC

I will be sending positive vibes your way!

-ol' 2long

Thanks, 2long. This is beyond fog. This is just horrible.

If she insists on cash, and if the court agrees, I lose the house, and she gets much less than I'm offering her now. MUCH less. Realtor commissions and capital gains taxes (owned the house < 2 yrs) will eat up most of it.

Is this too much detail for MB?

Hope not. I'll edit later if I decide it is...

GC

I'll send vibes too, but I am not sure if they are +, or -, beause I can't spin the electrons like 2long can.

Gray, I don't know what will happen, wish we could do more. Sorry it's so tough.

SS

GC,

Can you hold the house hostage.....so to speak. What I mean is, can the court dictate how much to sell the house for? Or can you agree to give her half the value of the sale "once the sale is complete" and then decide the house value at lets say.....75K more than the realtor's appraisal .... then sit on it until it sells for that much (practically never) and then sparrow then takes 1/2. It may prompt her to take the path of least resistance.

I've heard of similar negotiating tactics done here. I'm not intimate with the details on how it's done, but a clever lawyer would be.

Binder - maybe. The trouble is, I have a TON of work I'm planning on doing on the house. If I had the chance, I could put at least $30K of sweat equity into this place with a few months' hard work. It's the thing I've been holding out for. If I'm forced to sell now, that opportunity is lost, and my ability to buy another house is lessened.

Can I get P.O.ed now?

GC

gc, you will be in my thoughts and prayers, and whenever I send warm hugs out, you'll be a receiver.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Can I get P.O.ed now?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup....and I'd buy you a beer and listen to you rant if I could.

However...

I don't know how things work in the US regarding the financing/taxes/capital gains. We don't pay capital gains on our primary residence, but we also cannot use our mortgages as a tax deduction.

You might want to have a list of "incentives" to dangle in front of her....of course starting with a low ball...everything will look relatively better to her after that.

If she doesn't go for the annuity, is there any way to get her to commit to half the present value paid out in 6 mos. or so. Give her some up front money to satisy her immediate need for cash with an agreement to pay the balance in the 6 mos. That will give you the renovation time and still put you in the prime sales time.

I wish you luck in this. I know personally that my house holds some reminders for my, but it also is my sanctuary. It would be tough for me to leave, I have no doubt the same applies to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> Bad, bad, bad.

Sparrow expects me to buy her out of the house with cash, rather than with my annuity. Even though she knows that this cash does not exist. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What about other options to get cash? Second mortgages? Credit cards? Family loan, etc. Do you have a life insurance policy with cash value? I am getting a small amount from mine - after all, who do I need to protect now?

How about an IRA? I think you can take $$ from an IRA without penalty if you pay it back within 60 days - and I think there may be a hardship option too. You might need a financial planner rather than an attorney on this part of it!

Good luck - when is your arbitration?

Thanks everybody for all these ideas!

I have a tax-deferred annuity. I can't touch it. Whatever share of it sparrow gets, she can start to draw on immediately without penalty. But only a little at a time. No huge pile of cash.

I don't see how a judge can tell me, you've got all these non-liquid assets, now turn them into cash. The sparrow has no financial obligations aside from rent, a car payment, and auto insurance. She makes good money and has to have a huge net positive cashflow. I hope the court will look at my finances and look at hers and say look sister, you have no need for this cash. You'll take the annuity and like it.

Stupidhead sparrow, it's an awesome annuity. I've never seen anything like it. The thing just grows and grows and grows.

I think she may assume I can empty it out, like a 401k. She's about to learn otherwise.

I'm going in for a fight. I'm going to be pleasant and upbeat and indignant if necessary, and I'm going to have all the information.

I think at this point I'm the only one who knows all the details, the only one who's broken it down. Here's our net worth, here are all the ways it can be divided, end of story.

I don't even know how it will be decided. Maybe things will get hashed out on Tuesday, and when she understands everything she'll get a clue.

I went out and split a bottle of wine with Amelia tonight. At first I was so angry I could barely talk. I mellowed out nicely eventually... she's a swell girl.

GC

As SH would say just be pleasant and matter of fact, business like even. At this point you know it's over so just don't give her any ammunition to make you look bad (which is hard for us all to imagine here knowing you). As far as what I know about capital gains tax, just because you sell a home doesn't mean you always have to pay it. Look into it more but I believe the stipulation is that you only have to pay capital gains tax if your home sells for $250K or more or maybe that you clear $250k from the sale of the house. We didn't have to pay it either time we sold our house and these were in different states, different price and proceeds. so like I said, check it out more.

i don't come here much anymore and probably within the next few weeks I'll muster up a goodbye post but not right now. continue to keep "us" posted and as always prayers to you, RR

It's exactly like Binder says, my house is my sanctuary. It's scruffy, but it's clean, safe, and secure.

If I lose it because the sparrow wants cash and the court agrees, that will be tough to swallow.

GC

GC,

Just a little word of encouragement here. After reviewing "Division of Assets" laws for your state, they do not usually force one party to give the other party a "pile of cash". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> It's usually much more like this:

List all Assets in Column A
List all Debts in Column B
List the values/equity in Column C

List what is going to the husband in Column D
List what is going to the wife in Column E

Do D and E roughly equal???

See, there is no "requirement" that you present her with a pile of liquid cash. If there were, then I'd say that you require her to present you with a liquid pile of cashe--she's the one who's leaving! Nope, in real life the reason people do sometimes sell the marital home is because that's the only or major asset, and there are no other assets to balance it out.

For example, in my instance here in the Rocky Mtn. state, I got a car and exH got an SUV; I got my debts and he got his; I got furniture and he got furniture; he got one big asset that we bought as a family with his inheritance money (and personally, I agreed to let it go); we had no life insurance or annuities or retirement accounts to split. See?? All there was to split was the house, and we had many, many several thousand of equity--no way for one of us to buy out the other. So, we sold it and split it.

Thus, my good guess, and I'm not a lawyer but I have been around this block a time or two with several people on this forum, is that if you can put as much in her column as you put in your column, then that's a reasonable offer. Her DEMANDING liquid cash is an UNreasonable offer. Now, you can never tell what a judge is going to do (it's unpredictable!!!) but they usually go with what they've done in the past and reasonable.


CJ

P.S. This hurts a lot, huh??? (((((GC)))))

Thanks, CJ... I hope you're right, and I hope you feel better right away!

Tonight I spent some time with car4love and saw the baby. Guess what? OM is still behaving strangely. Car4love is fine though. She's tired, little one doesn't let her sleep much. Doesn't see many grownups except for OM.

It's going to be nice to finally hear one day that this affair has crapped out.

GC

Court tomorrow.

Ech, feeling terrible. Since last night I've had this pain in my chest, sort of from one shoulder to the other and up the back of my neck to my temples. Feels like heartburn.

Stupidly, I ate total garbage all weekend. I usually eat very healthy food, and I think my body is not liking what I've put in it recently. Last night I drank a bunch of water and went to bed.

Woke up with the pain very early this morning, and unable to stay asleep, got up and came to work. Had yogurt and fruit for breakfast. Still hurting. Took an aspirin. If it doesn't go away by afternoon I think I'll go see a doctor. Pretty sure it's just heartburn and an achy head from the anxiety and bad food. No big whoop. Taking better care now...

GC

Try going on the BRAT diet for a day or two. BRAT stands for:

Bananas
Rice
Applesauce (the stuff w/out the sugar added - refined sugars are hard on the tum)
Toast

LOTS of liquids to flush your system out, but the bland stuff will be like hitting the reset button on your digestive system.

(((GC))) Those were total momma-ish wooza hugs.

TBF. That's all I can tell you bud. Stay TBF (tough but fair).

- Kimmy