SLH -

Kimmy probably won't be back for awhile so I will answer your question about the Foxfire books. They are great! Kimmy told me I should read them when she found out I was interested in folklore, folk healing, folk majik, cooking, etc.

The Foxfire books were started at a highschool in SE NC I believe by a teacher who wanted the students to become enthusiastic about life. This was in the 70's when drugs and sex were rampant. The series actually started out as a magazine. The students went into the hills to interview the hill people and to record their history which was at the risk of becoming extinct. Well it blossomed into books because there was just so much to record.

They lived almost entirely off the land, with all their crafts and skills being handed down through the generations.

They are great books and I got mine used off of ebay. And Kimmy is an incredibly interesting girl with a heart as big as can be!

2long -

Yes, that was me who posted that song for you. It was after a particularly painful thread of yours. And I didn't think you would end in divorce, but what I "hear" in that song is the healing that happens at the end. Divorced or not.

And that is so interesting that what you have gotten out of the last three years of your ordeal is compassion. So that was the lesson you were to learn! I have no doubt in my mind that your wife will get to a place where you see her (her potential and goodness) with you as her husband. You are just that way. And your family is so lucky to have you, as you are them. You know we once talked of the legacy thing (don't know if you remember) and I said the legacy my mom and dad left behind for us children, grandchildren, g-grandchildren is something that could never be replaced, for generations after their deaths. If they had left a legacy of divorce, then the family would have been broken, and who knows how many generations it would have taken to mend that break. You know the whole "sins of the father" thing.

SS -

For my update:

I'm thinking of going back with my ex. He has been a changed man this year. Coming into town and staying at motels, working on my rentals, helping me in anyway he can. And never once asking for anything in return. He is trying to pay back, not only to me and my DD what he took/broke but also to others. He has pretty much devoted this year to helping others it seems. I am learning to respect and admire him, for the first time since I found out he lied to me originally.

Well I'm not even going back into the past to recount our nightmarish story, but I feel like both of us are going to be okay. I am at a place where like 2long, I think I have learned compassion, acceptance and unconditional love. Regardless of whether we end up together in the end, or not.

He has done so much work on my house and one of my rentals (he even volenteered to paint the rental which will take a good week of his summer vacation), so I said I would take him to Cancun with Paige and I, on my dime. (two room suite so it'll be cool, I can stay with Paige in one and he can stay in the other)

Anyway SS he has been married three times with four kids and has finally realized that the buck stops with him. He has always been very good to his kids and to Paige but he was a philanderer I think, and definately a liar and a cheat.

It's been a year since we have been together, and his grown two daughters tells me he has not been with a woman since last July. So I really do think he has had some kind of enlightenment.

Take care all!

Yup, that is what I read between the lines. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Weaver, whatever the outcome I wish you all the happiness in the world. Sorry for the t/j Gray.

Thanks so much for that ff!

And sorry for my (continual) threadjacking too Gray.

weaver:

Ah, legacy! Remember these lyrics from Peter Gabriel's "Make Tomorrow"?

"What better measure of what you were doing here
Than what you can leave behind
All of the children of your children's children
Do you ever think what they're going to find?

Make tomorrow
Make tomorrow
Where the sacred meet the scared!
Make tomorrow
Make tomorrow
Where the dreamer's dream is dared!

In each of us
A dream can burn like the sun
Let's try it all one more time
To get this lesson learned"

-ol' 2long

Those are GREAT lyrics.

All I know of Gabriel is "I Grieve" because I played it about a hundred times after my mom's death.

But I am going to download and listen to this one.

"make tomorrow -
where the sacred meet the scared

make tomorrow -
where the dreamers dreams are dared"

It's so true when you have a good legacy from your parents, because I know that is where my braveness, and strength comes from.

Even and especially since they are gone.

It is also what I hope to leave my daughter. My dad use to tell us "know that you can" because you are a ___________(our last name.

So true!

weaver:

It's on the OVO album, and was mostly sung by someone else, so it's not on many of the websites with Gabriel lyrics, I find.

I haven't ignored what you said about your ex. I've been thinking about it a lot. I was just talking 2 SS about how I've been hoping for so many years now that my W would see why I do the things I do for her and take the time 2 do them. It's partially in compensation for the things I may not have done that I should have, but it's also a demonstration, through action, of who I want her 2 see that I am. I think she's starting 2 notice in a meaningful way. And at the same time, over the past 3 years I've gotten better at not expecting anything in re2rn from her.

I just want her 2 be as much as she can be, and if I can be a part of that and she wants me 2, then great. But even if I can't, it won't ever have been wasted effort.

There may or may not be an afterlife. But I learned firsthand, when my mom passed away 9 years ago, that immortality, in the form of our legacies and how we're remembered by our loved ones, is a reality.

-ol' 2long

I got it 2long, done by Gabriel too...on Bear Share!

I am listening to it now, it's a very good song. He's got a female singer accompaning him.

2long, I have the utmost respect for His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and while it doesn't appear that he believes in God as I perceive God to be, he is in my opinion one of the greatest men in the world.

That other thread is so upsetting because of the apparant lack of tolerance for other beliefs and religions. It makes me so sad.

I feel such an affinity for Csue, as I know you do, because I know she would understand my feelings.

Bear Share?

Hm... I'll have 2 look that up! I've been using iTunes for my downloads. For a gizmologist, I've got a lot of evolving 2 do in that area!

I learned a lot of what little I know about the Dalai Lama from Spacecase's posts 2 the resources page on iloveulove.com. I share your respect for the man.

I'm sorry the other thread upsets you. You know, though? I *feel* a peculiar affinity with MM that even comes through the debate-related posts there.

I'm glad CSue is back! Life must be good, though, because she's been gone a while! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

SS, you're too kind.

I want to hear about that "other" thread you're talking about, Weaver. I seem to be missing it, and I'm awful curious.

I'm not a very good MB participant right now. I'm a little too impatient with WS. I project my own feelings and my own experience onto situations a little too much.

But I know that as a BS, it is worthwhile to believe in your partner and try to help them. And that you have to go through this all the way to come out clean on the other end.

By the way, things are not going very well for car4love. I don't know what I can do for her. She told me, "GC, after this I'm going to be so strong. I'll be able to handle anything."

She told me today that sparrow and the tin man are planning to get married and buy a house in my neighborhood as soon as their divorces are final. That hit me pretty good, got that hot feeling behind my ears. But it wasn't like it used to be. It hurt, a lot, but it wasn't the crippling feeling I've grown used to. I wish they wouldn't intrude on my life. I wish they would go away and stop hurting car4love.

Weaver, you should feel free to talk about your decision here.

GC

Goodness, we are a talkative bunch lately. Seems "Gray's" is the place to be!

Hey Weave, I knew I felt some major XH vibes coming off of you!! Since Gray's so graciously granted you permission, will you post accordingly, as you are comfortable? It's nice to see you "happy" too, you know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SS, 2long, Weave, I hope I never have need of your "counseling" services. . . but if I do, I know I will be receiving some of the best advice from some of the kindest, most compassionate, generous, folk out there. You guys have been to hell and back and yet still don't shirk from sharing that gruelling ordeal with others so that they may benefit from it in some small way.

Gray, are there no other houses available in all of the upper midwest? :Raking hands thru hair in frusturated movements: Good grief, I am incensed to read that the Sparrow could be so cruel, and the OM, too. It's almost as if she is trying to re-create her life with you, but with him. There were other similarities, weren't there? This is just bizarre, and beyond boorish and tasteless. This is viscious, and malevolent.

(I've had to erase a bit here; it wasn't in keeping with our Higher Road philosophy. I've been grouchy this week!)

Maybe I should quit now and come back tomorrow. Moses is stepping on me, competing with the keyboard for attention . . . er, wait, Moses my cat. . . and I am finding myself in a position where compassion is something I am having a difficult time with tonight, in scenerios like Gray's. She knows , and yet behaves like this.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> How <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> could <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> she? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

~ StillLovingHim

Weaver wrote:
The Foxfire books were started at a highschool in SE NC I believe by a teacher who wanted the students to become enthusiastic about life . . The series actually started out as a magazine. The students went into the hills to interview the hill people and to record their history which was at the risk of becoming extinct. Well it blossomed into books because there was just so much to record . . .They lived almost entirely off the land, with all their crafts and skills being handed down through the generations

This is just too cool. I man, these very people managed to survive so many generations, untouched by progress or civilized advancement (for the most part) for centuries, and yet they thrived (well, not in contrast to the average paunchy, hamburger-eating American of today, but still). I'd love to find these books. Can you give me any other information on them -- publisher, publication date(s), an author(s) name, etc?

And Weave, you sorely undervalue your way with words. . . I think you describe things beautifully. In everything you write <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

~ Still

{edit}

A friend and I went out to the neighborhood bistro. We sat at the bar. A pretty girl arrived, all alone, and I started talking to her.

I'm having dinner with her next week.

What the...

GC

What calogne have you been wearing lately Gray? Me thinks I'm gunna need me some of that.

I would guess, Binder, that the cologne is GC's new found confidence <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Happy for ya, GC <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now That's what I'm talking about! You ladies don't know how much impact a smile has on us men. Look around a little GC. They're all around you. Now, like dad used to say.... play the field a little bit.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bravo, well done.

GC said:
A pretty girl arrived, all alone, and I started talking to her . . .I'm having dinner with her next week.

Wow, Gray, that's great! Keep doing whatever your doin' Honey Chile' -- cologne, confidence, or just plain cute -- it sure is workin'!

~ StillLovingHim

Heh. My attorney said, "when the green lights go on in your eyes, they'll be beating down the doors."

Welcome to the green lights, GC.

GC:

Wow, Home Skillet!

Good 2 see you're still alive in there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

Gimble, if you're reading... thank you for that poem, so much.

GC

You're very welcome for the poem.

Now, on to important things.

What day is the date? We will all need a report ASAP after the date. Heck, I will even stay up late to read it, well, I am always up late, but I still want to read it :-)

All the best,
Gimble