"I did not have much compassion for the sparrow today. I need that word tatooed on the backs of my hands."

Try the inside of your eyelids - less "public" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"I feel the need to be forgiven, and to make amends, for getting so angry.

I think perhaps that regardless of whether this act was good or bad, I needed for this day to happen.

Maybe I needed to feel like the sinner that I am."

All part of the process, gc. I don't think you did "wrong" by this. In fact, holding it back all those times you saw emails and deleted them without reading was probably more wrong than replying the way you just did. You aren't in plan B anymore, you're divorcing.

"Thanks again to all. 2long, I hope you have a good trip. Sorry I didn't wish you well before you left."

Well, you just did! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm at my sister's in Auburn. Going 2 try 2 see my dad in Sacramento this morning, then we've got 2 meet with a financial guy. 2morrow, it's off 2 the Shoe Tree! (and OOSP).

-ol' 2long

Speaking of flight:

Pink Floyd, "Learning to Fly"

"Into the distance, a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction holding me fast, how
Can I escape this irresistible grasp?

Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted Just an earth-bound misfit, I

Ice is forming on the tips of my wings
Unheeded warnings, I thought I thought of everything
No navigator to guide my way home
Unladened, empty and turned to stone

A soul in tension that's learning to fly
Condition grounded but determined to try
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I

Above the planet on a wing and a prayer,
My grubby halo, a vapour trail in the empty air,
Across the clouds I see my shadow fly
Out of the corner of my watering eye
A dream unthreatened by the morning light
Could blow this soul right through the roof of the night

There's no sensation to compare with this
Suspended animation, A state of bliss
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I"

-ol' 2long

Hey there, 2,

No leads,per se, but he said he'll keep an eye out. Aph's a good guy. Could be good news, I hope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I unner-stand about the gov-mint contract job -- lotsa red tape. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Tiger does that, too.

Part of the reason it is so hard for an Aero Engineer to prosper here in Houston is the Columbia Tragedy. There are few too people, businesses, countries, etc who want to invest in the Space Race these days, and just far too many engineers, for Houston, anyhow. At least my H has a job. Many don't in this area, at least not as an engineer. . . we know a few folk who've had to take on jobs like night clerk at the local grocery store. So sad.

I don't want to move, but I will if it will make things better. In any way, shape or form. You know?

Thanks for listening.


slh

My H was distant the past couple days and immediately my stress load increased. I finally asked him if we were indeed on the same page about stopping the D and actually WORKING together on the M. We had a nice talk last night. Yes, he wants the M. Yes, he loves me. He is afraid though. I will try not to cheat again is what he said. I said, not good enough...it needs to be I will never do that to you again. So we talked again about boundaries. I had given him mine plus some examples from symc. Finally, he said ok I will write a list of boundaries. YES!

Also, agree that we BOTH need to work on the M, not just me doing the work. One tiny step at a time, I can't push too hard or he will be overwhelmed.

Sorry, GC I hope you don't mind me using your thread. I trust all of you in here.

Inquiring Minds Want To Know Part II:

GC:
. . . Sorry about the fiance and the tutu queen. That reeks. I don't know why people do this stuff. Well, I kinda know why, but I don't know why they don't know better.

Yeah, The TuTu Queen and Guitar Boy sure did me did me one. I never got any answers on how long they had been fooling around behind my back and I never really got my say, except for one very regrettable moment of weakness on the phone where I unleashed a torrent of name-calling & curse words; not quite the same. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I didn't know about Plan A then; didn't know about Plan B, either, but I sure knew how to implement it. "Engage," says Captain Picard. Did I ever.

I left the boy and moved on, in hopes of healing. Instead of "healing", however, I let my anger simmer and roil in my belly, a nightmare of hot resentment and judgement I refused to get rid of, clung to in fact. Not that I let myself think I was holding onto anything. It's amazing how self-delusional a person can be given the right tools and a pathetic self-image. Oh, and a thinner OW, LOL!

So what helped my particular sitch? Getting my head on straight, in every possible way. I began attending church more regularly, began seeing that God wasn't holding anything over me for some sin I had committed in the past, however imagined, huge, miniscule or obscure, (and yes, I have my share, believe me). Learned to trust, to believe, to stand tall. And, I found an amazing support group there.

I also checked-in to a hospital for my Eating Disorder, which had been an issue since my early teens. As in all addictions, it was more than just an "avoidance of/obsession with" food -- I had to view it in terms of my quest for perfection, my need for approval, etc. Serious soul searching. . . ouch. So there, I sought IC.

And I began letting more people in. More than the select few I had, whom I had allowed to see me beyond the "perfect exterior" I had worked for so long and convinced so many of to create for myself.

Slowly, the Resentment and anger flaked off of me, in chips and dried scabs. Beneath, my skin was mostly raw and pink and sensitive, and as of then, maladapted to the brightness of its new exposure. . .

But it worked. A new Me stepped forth.

Here I am. Not perfect, not by a long shot, but okay most times, wouldn't you say? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


It's interesting to note that the time I ran into him since then, with my one of my daughters in tow -- what did I feel?

No, not complete forgiveness, but not total anger and seething bitterness, either. Something in-between, less contradictory. More akin to remembering an old friend I had shared many happy moments with, that I was saddened to've left behind. . . but had to, to spare myself. I had to in order to move on to sweeter things.

In the time it took to drink our coffee together (classic coffee shop run-in), I never once thought about what happened to the house he had bought us; my unsused wedding gown that was stored there; what happened to our bed, our appliances, our furniture (including the complete Baby's Nursery) that I had so lovingly picked out with an eye toward "our future"; whatever became of the my diamond engagement ring I had (wanted to throw but) handed back to him, what he had done with the Guitar I had saved up a year for, etc., etc. (I still wonder if TuTu-OW made him get rid of it, now that I think about it. . . LOL! Man the boy could play!)

I had truly left it all behind.

Resentment and Anger had --has made me somewhat bitter (I like to say, "realistic", LOL) -- I think no one can escape unscathed & unscarred from a situation like that -- but you can't cling to it, even in it's simplest, smallest form. Not for any longer than a brief while. "It'll eat you up inside, baby" (nod to Don Henley)

I don't know if any of this will help; I know I was only engaged for a few years and that you shared a decade with the Sparrow, a decade of stories and hopes and dreams. My sitch doesn't begin to compare.

I just thought I'd share.


For the record:

Guitar Boy did up marrying the TuTu Queen; their marriage lasted all of 9 months.

But even now, with him knowing I am married with 3 girls, he stills snoops around, makes inquiries about me. . . has managed to wiggle back into my best friend's (in my old hometown) life and wrestles tidbits of info about me out of her. At this point, I simply find it amusing and saddening.

Mostly saddening.




slh

FF, is he reading the book you mentioned?

[regarding boundaries]. . . I had given him mine plus some examples from symc. . .

Huh? What examples? I need to learn more about boundaries myself!

So happy to see you guys are still hanging in there, bay.

Your son is absolutely beautiful. I mean just gorgous. Bob's letter made me cry, and it was so true.

love you,

slh

SLH, I'm glad you told that story.

FF, I guess he's testing the waters. But the "I'll try not to cheat" stuff? Yikes. Show him The Empire Strikes Back:

No! Try not! Do. Or do not. There is no try.

GC

Not yet. This is Cerri's list of personal boundaries:

No in depth eye contact. Surface only.


No physical contact. Do not sit immediately next to someone you find attractive - or directly across from.


No sexual innuendos of any sort - no sexual jokes - if one is made give a weak smile and change the subject.


No conversations about personal issues - marriage/kids/career/etc unless it is to say how wonderful those things are going for you DO NOT SHARE ANGST - it builds connection.


If you end up in a professional or coaching relationship with someone you find attractive you will need to be especially on guard not to share YOUR personal stories. You will also need to guard against taking this person's side and commiserating with his/her pain - keep the focus on what s/he needs to do to make changes that create a better life.


No thoughts about "what if" - you cannot let your brain go there - it might feel good in the moment but it just hurts more later.


Keep discussions about feelings for someone else limited in time and in scope - these should be with someone who will encourage you to make appropriate decisions.


Learn to recognize the chemical dump and to force your thoughts elsewhere - this is why talking about it at length is bad - it just makes it larger.


Stay active and engaged in other activities.


If you must be in contact limit conversation to the bare minimum and to essentials only.


DO NOT talk with this person about the feelings you have for him/her - finding someone attractive is an aphrodisiac all its own and again makes the whole thing larger. It can also begin a string of destructive events.


Do not initiate contact - answer only those that are essential and related to the relationship you have (business, coaching, whatever)

Thank you, he is my sweetie boy. Yes, Bob's letter was beautifully written, really touched my heart.

Love you too,

No! Try not! Do. Or do not. There is no try.

Oh, Yoda, how I love you! If only you weren't 700-something years old, and a reeeeaaallly ugly alien-reptile-midget thingy.

Oh, yeah, and I wasn't very married. LOL.

slh.

LOL, good idea GC. Yes, testing the waters is very likely. I withdrew from him last week and he got to experience the loss and he did not like it at all. He was very hurt. That is what prompted these conversations. GC, he has always been like this, content to let everyone else do. He has never been the initator in R's.

SLH, my goodness...you sure have come far to not think of those things. Glad you shared.

[color:"purple"] . . . I’m learning to live without you now
But I miss you, baby
The more I know, the less I understand
All the things I thought I’d figured out,
I have to learn again

I’ve been trying to get down
to The Heart of the Matter
But everything changes
And my friends seem to scatter
But I think it’s about
Forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if
You don’t love me anymore. . . [/color]


Gray, I'm not preaching, Hon. I hope you know that.

I've been pondering this for a few days now. . . if you need to have your say, and you truly haven't, then have at it. Go after her with both barrels -- don't look back -- she deserves it. She does. You've been too strong for too long, and no one is SuperMan. No wonder you are so resentful.

Is this just what it boils down to? You never had a chance to have your say?

Hell, Gray, no wonder you're so bitter and ticked off. Get it off your chest. But you don't have to compromise who you are by doing it.

[color:"purple"]You keep carrying that anger, it’ll eat you up inside, baby . . . [/color]

. . . and we need something left of your heart for when Miss Right comes tripping along your path, right?

Hugs, bay.


slh



.

FF wrote:
SLH, my goodness...you sure have come far to not think of those things. Glad you shared.

FF, I still struggle with lots of things, bay. Mainly my ED (Anorexic tendencies, no more Bulimia in years, thank God) -- I'm either too thin or too fat, standard anorexia/Bulimia fare. My H has a history of it in his family, so he is very understanding -- sometimes too much so -- I need a good firm kick in the [censored] more often than not. Right now I could stand to lose a good bit of weight. . . but trying to do it "healthily" and not via the "quick way" (aka just not eating for a while) has never been an easy lesson for me. But it is one I need to learn for my girls, for their outlook on the world, for their outlook on themselves as growing young women, etc.

I guess we all have our demons, huh? Mine just sound really ridiculous on paper.

I promise I'm not that shallow, LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



slh

Am I? I'm still (for a few more days at least) married to this chick. I don't think the time for protest and righteous indignation has come and gone. She's married to me and lives as if she's married to the tinman. That's a big disgusting fake. I do not believe that you can say, "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you" and then you're divorced except for the legal wrangling and you get to do whatever you want. Of course there's nothing to stop a person from doing that, but I have the right to say "This is a nasty old shackup" as long as that's my wife in the tinman's bed. Dress it up however you want, this is low-rent Jerry Springer behavior. After the divorces are done, it will still be right to reject the legitimacy of this affair (e.g., it would be morally wrong to attend the APs' wedding), but right now, it's even worse... an affront to common decency.


Partly. But I'm pretty sure dumping all my thoughts onto paper and dropping it in the mail would be unsatisfying. I wouldn't know if they'd be read at all. I'd wonder if much of what I wrote would be dismissed as cultish MB dogma. I'd care about how the information was received, even though there'd be no way of ever knowing.


I don't believe the time for has come for me to measure my feelings or my attitude in those terms. I'm still married. I'm still grieving. I'm still experiencing the immediate, direct consequences of the sparrow's affair. I'm all alone. My financial situation remains unresolved and precarious.

And there's a side effect to doing everything you can to give your marriage a chance to survive. You grieve slowly. You postpone letting go of your attachment to your partner. You suffer more, I think, because you fight to have hope, and in doing that, you turn your anger inward.

So I'm not going to come down on myself for not being at peace.

I'm not the same as I was two months ago. Two months ago, I still felt anguish. Now I only feel sorrow.

Make sense?

I like that song, SLH, but every time I think of the name "Don Henley", for some reason I feel like giggling.

I've never been real hot for the Eagles. Maybe that's why.

Or maybe it's that image of him singing while playing drums.

Everybody knows drummers can't sing!

GC

GC,

Just wanted you to know that I'm reading - and I can only imagine how rotten this situation feels for you. You have every right to be outraged, heartsick, bitter etc. etc. etc. But, you are still a young man, and when all this yuck is over, you will have a chance for something much better.

-AD

But I'm pretty sure dumping all my thoughts onto paper and dropping it in the mail would be unsatisfying. I wouldn't know if they'd be read at all. I'd wonder if much of what I wrote would be dismissed as cultish MB dogma. I'd care about how the information was received, even though there'd be no way of ever knowing.

Hmmm. I guess I meant if she were to contact you again. . . you'd have a just opportunity to lay it out then. Not unprovoked, as it were. And not in ranting, hateful terms, but cold hard fact: this is what you have done.

I just did not know you had suffered in silence all this time.

So I'm not going to come down on myself for not being at peace.

Neither will I. I hope you haven't thought that I've meant to, or that I was trying to sway you unduly --if you think so, I apologize for how I've acted. You feel the way you feel and have very legitimate reasons for it.

What you say makes perfect sense; more then perfect sense.

I just hate to see you hurting so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

I like that song, SLH, but every time I think of the name "Don Henley", for some reason I feel like giggling.

I can only think of a handful of his songs I like, and it is more the poetry in them, what he is trying to emote, then the music itself (I know, I know, sacrilige to a musician!).

Everybody knows drummers can't sing!

Uh, sorry, Phil Collins???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bbbwwwwhhhhhhaaaaaa hhhhaaaaaa hhhhaaaaa hhhhaaaaa!!!!!

hugs to you, gc.

slh

I've heard things about drummers, but that wasn't one of them.

If you know what I mean. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I need a hug.

Wea--ver!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


ROFLOL


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Shul, Wuz up, Hon?