Just got my lunch out of the fridge, and tuned in. Will be doing posts shortly.

Faithful,
I can see you are happy to have the chance to work on your marriage, but that you are still working with lots of doubts, and fears.

What would help you the most right now? By that, I mean what can your H do to help you the most, and is there ongoing communication about it?

Do you do dates often?

SS

FF, I haven't had any results, which was the idea.

And weaver! Thanks for that song yesterday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now if AD would drop in...

GC

SS, yes exactly I am dealing with HUGE doubts and I don't know if they are my imagination or real, KWIM?

Tonight is our first twice a week 30 minute "work on our M" session. I wanted to either pull out the ENQ or the 4 rules of recovery. Which do you think would be best?

Make sure you both understand and agree on the four rules. All the other stuff will come naturally in time, but there needs to be agreement on the rules or the other stuff won't work.

I am not sure how your H does things, and how willing he is to discuss his feelings. It may not hurt to let him read it, and then probe for his feelings. You want to see the light in his eyes that shows he wants it like you want it. If you don't get that, see if you can figure out what is going on behind those eyes of his. Don't confront, or doubt, but probe gently.

You still have time. It was about two years for us to really be doing well after we read this stuff, and started doing it.

You didn't answer the question about dates. Should I leave it alone, or ask you again? Hmmm, SS ponders if this is just an oversight, or if it means something.

SS is not that good, so you tell me. I'll take your word on it.

ENQ can be done as home work for the next sesson. Does he do homework well?

SS

No does not do homework well, but I will ask. I like the idea of letting him read the 4 rules and watch for his reaction in his eyes. Dates..well I think I avoided because we just rarely get them anymore. DS is hard to take care of and thus hard to get sitters for. On top of that H has not been enthusiastic about dates in the past...of course he was in A's then. I will try again. Honestly I have asking to get away for a few days alone for the past year. It was always "no". I mentioned it last week and he said "OK" so maybe we are making slow progress. I will ask him to pick a place and make the arrangements as you counseled SLH to do.

I don't know your H as well as I do SLH's H. You think about it, and do what you think would work best in your case.

Dates hold the love together. No dates = loss of love.

We have made good friends all the places we have lived - and we moved a lot the first 14 years we were married. Trading baby sitting is good when you have close friends, but you can drive a long ways and let family do it too, if they are willing. IT'S IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO PUT SOMEONE OUT A LITTLE BIT TO MAKE IT WORK, DON'T BE AFRAID TO ASK.

I was one of those that didn't think it would work for quite a while. Now I can't believe I was so stupid.

SS

SLH,
Now I feel owe you an apology. You did it, and it didn't work at all.

So now you can quit.......right?

Except that you know I would never suggest that, and I know you wouldn't do it even if I did suggest it.

So, are you afraid now?

I would think that after the talk you had with tiger he would be much more likely to go pay out this time, and to avoid scheduling something else on top of it. 10 years is a milestone, but then so is 11. I know it's coming up, but I don't know exactly when.



Ready for some whining, SS? If not, I promise not to be upset. I PROMISE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

2nd Honeymoon Trip? ROFLOL. We never even had a FIRST Honeymoon Trip! No wonder I am so starved for some time for my H, and am willing to move his parents in with us to get it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

We spent our first honeymoon in a mountain cabin - in the winter. The water was turned off, so for some things we had to go outside to the old style..... em....... well, you know. W was not impressed, but then, both of us had spent our money getting ready to be married. Paying off bills and cars, doing first and last months rent, deposits, etc, so this one was very low budget.

At least we got one. It was much better than NOTHING.

As far as you being a whiner - you are not. This is serious stuff, and I am glad to get more informaton. It tells me a great deal about how things really were/are.
( I can't believe she thinks this is whining, sometimes she surpprises me.)


And for those crazy folk who will say, Why on earth did slh have so many children if she couldn't handle them? I say to you, well, I DO love my kiddos, first of all, but let's also say. . . uhmmm. . . if you wave the bedsheets around me I get preggers, 'kay? Which is why, as my DD10 now says, "My Daddy is fixed." LOL. NOTHING else works, we've tried it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

(Warning to Graycloud, you may want to skip this part, it will bring memories that you may want to stay away from.)

We love our children too, and they are a wonderful part of our life, but the main reason I got married to spend time with HER. Our children will grow up, and marry (5 out of 8 are married now) and they will repeat the cycle, but I cherish the time I spend with my W. I love to see her face as she sleeps. I love the sound of her voice, I love her laugh, the smell of her hair. When we are alone for a few days, all the good memories flood back for both of us, all the reasons we fell in love, and married in the first place.

When you are at home, the phone always rings, the kids have demands, the dog barfs on the carpet....and all that stuff that you know as well as I do. This is where I hate cell phones, and pagers - to many people think then need to answer while they are on dates, and vacations. I don't. Just how important is a marriage anyway?

Anyway, yes, we love our kids too, but they are a part of marriage, they are not the whole sum of our marriage. Dr Harley is not making the 15 hours up. Think about that for a little while. Many or most people say they can't do that many hours. We don't do 15 but we do 7 or 8, and it is so much better than 15 minutes or a half hour.


I can say for sure that a substantial amound of time is needed, and you can't do "quality time" instead, it takes quantity.

Story of failed trip last year, that almost made SS cry.

SLH, this is not a small thing. If he doesn't realize it, then another talk should be scheduled. Emotionally this was huge for you, and he needs to know what he did, so he won't ever do it again. If you don't think you can get it across, to him, I'll give you my phone number, and you can have him call me when he has about an hour for me to chew him out. Just make sure he won't hang up.

Dreams (like this) are not something that can be pushed aside for another day of work. Covey in "7 Habits" remarks that "no one on their death bed ever wishes they would have spent more time at the office."

I read it again, and I don't know how to express my feelings. All those preprations you worked so hard on, all that work, and it fell through. If the hurricanes had done it, but you knew Ti was in with all his heart, you would have been happy anyway, but it didn't go that way. He needs to know your feelings, I can't stress that enough.

And...........please don't say it's not that big of a deal, I know it is. But then, you wouldn't say that, would you.

And I fell into a depression where even when I tried to make things nice for us, I still couldn't.

I think that's when I started losing it as the "perfect" wife, not trying anymore, saying "why the heck bother?", and began doing more things with friends. When I felt, however, that many of my needs were being met [color:"blue"]*there*,[/color] by [color:"blue"]*them*[/color] (and some of them are male, yes) is when I high-tailed it to MB. I'd been a fan of Harley's books for years but there had never been a forum on his site when I had checked before -- what a blessing!

If you have to, get his parents to drive to you, and stay, or, if you have to, drive the kids to his brothers house, and fly or drive from there.

I think what I would do, is tell Ti what you want to do, and make sure you explain how important it is to you. Then ask his help in making it work. He is an excellant problem solver, he will make sure it happens. If he applies his ability to this one, it's sure to work.

And just to make sure you get me - what I mean is to go over all the things that went wrong laqst time, and challange him to help you make sure this time you have them covered.
It might include:
Resorts where they don't get hurricanes.
Back up baby sitters
Money agreed upon, and raised way in advance.

You would know better than I would - heck you could even drive to his brothers, dump the kids, and stay in a cheap motel for the weekend. You might be so busy you didn't know it was cheap. Just find a way to start, you can work up from there.

Soooooo. . . in the event you have no family within 300 miles, no neighbors that you'd really want to leave your 3, 5 and 10 year olds with, no friendly (but suicidal) fellow church friends, and no $ for babysitters, would dragging them along on a camping trip to the beach be considered a date?

Did [color:"blue"]you [/color] bring [color:"blue"]your[/color] kiddos?


Actually, there have been a few times when the sitters fell through, and we took the kids. However, the law of averages makes sure we get some time alone. We try to do two trips a year. Most are Fri, Sat, Sunday trips. A few times we have done 8 day trips, and they are sooooo sweet. We have camped on probably 70% of them, sometimes we mix it with motels, so we can get showers every other day.

Family vacations are important too. Those girls need memories of time spent with their father. They need it every year. Hmmm, SS doesn't want to be known as the preacher, so I better go on.

No, I know it won't be easy. Another thing is that YOU tried once, and you invested a lot into doing it. The sting is still there. However, it's worth it. I think I would make it longer than a weekend, you won't want to go home once you get started.

Ah, romance, whither hast thou gone?

LOL.

These kinds of LOL's hurt, don't they. Your question is real, and it's important.

I admit I am a fixer too. Once I realized what it would do for us, I bent all my will to make it work. I am thinking Ti will do the same for you - after all, you are the girl of his dreams. He would do well to keep the dreams alive.

Is this helping? Or just adding to the depression?

SS

I have a lunch date with my hubby tomorrow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good for you !!

Is this at a restraunt, or a motel <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

SS

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> well...I would prefer option two but have to settle for option one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> This is (I hope) the beginning of spending more time together. I read a great post by Ktulu on the R board which I am trying to read whenever I remember. I carry a copy of it in my purse. All of this is helping. Thank you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just checking, just checking.

Remember, you'll have bad days, but there is always the next morning. Keep working on it.

SS

Long, boring story:

I have a music publishing company. It used to be named after the sparrow.

For obvious reasons, I needed to give my company a new name. The name I chose is in the liner notes of my band's CD, which is supposed to come out on July 30.

For several days, the CD manufacturer has been sitting there with our stuff, ready to start printing, but there's been a problem.

I didn't know if I'd be able to legally use the new name I wanted to give my company.

The music publishers' society I belong to had to do a big, important search to make sure the name I wanted wasn't already being used. Ordinarily this takes a few days. And there are millions of music publishers. Finding a new name that isn't already taken is a little like trying to get "bob@aol.com" for an email.

The CD manufacturer called yesterday and said if they didn't get the go-ahead to start printing our CDs by 3:00 today, the discs would not be ready in time for release on the 30th.

This morning I called my publishing society. Was there any way this search could be sped up? The woman on the phone was very nice. She said she'd put a rush on it, but it probably wouldn't get sorted out until tomorrow at the soonest.

At 3:01, the woman from the society called to tell me it was okay for me to use the new name. One minute past the manufacturer's deadline.

But we made the deadline, because this morning, after calling the publishers' society, I decided to risk it and gave the go-ahead for the manufacturer to get started.

I don't know what the moral is. I made a tricky decision and took a risk, and it worked out.

A small thing, but still.

GC

So the pharase "by the seat of his pants" has some meaning to you?

I'm glad it worked.

When will I get my CD? I mean, I might even buy it, maybe, if I have money left over from my vacation.

You seem to get more done these days.

SS

Gray, that's awesome!

SS is right -- you do seem to get more done these days -- and you're not spinning your wheels, either.

I'm looking forward to hearing your music.

slh

FF, I expect a full report on your date tomorrow after lunch, 'kay?

LOL

slh

Okay, update on flower guy----he came to my office and asked me out today. He works in conjunction with our company but in a different org. He said I looked so sad last week when he saw me, he just couldn't stand it so sent me flowers. He said I was so beautiful and didn't understand what could have made me so sad. Sheesh I didn't even know it showed.

Anyway I told him I was just getting out of a LTR and he said so was he. I said I would be interested in going out and talking or dinner, something like that. He asked if he could call and I said sure.

Now this is the clicker - after that convo with him I sunk to such depths of sadness. I feel like I'm dying now. I just can't imagine going out with anyone but my ex. The thought just makes me so unbelievably sad. And I started getting awful panic attacks for the rest of the afternoon, during our interviews.

I don't want to go out with anyone. I miss my ex so much, especially after this guy asked me out. It's been six weeks now since he ended it and I just can't believe he doesn't miss me, or hasn't called. I just can't believe it. I know he loved me, and this all just makes no sense to me.

I think I'm losing it again. Where's the tear icon on here anyway.

Brutal honesty time and although I am being very strong and growing as a person I think, I love my ex. Like SS for his wife, I love his face, his hands, his smile, his laugh and the way he talked to me when I am down, or had a problem with Paige.

To everyone- you give me hope that life does get better when you stick to your commitment of marriage.

Gray you go guy! Good job today.

Everyone thinks I am nuts I know, but I just can't help the way I feel. And somedays I actually don't feel too bad, almost happy really.

{{weaver}}

Thank you faith. I know no one knows what to say to me. I mean what is there to say about a relationship which ended on an answering machine after 4 1/2 years and planning a life together.

In the past when I ended it with someone, I always talked to them as much as they needed afterwards. I can't imagine doing what he did.

Oh well, never mind. Nobody can possibly know the answers.

It is just, Weaver, that I hate seeing you hurt but am helpless to say anything to ease your pain. I have ears to listen and a shoulder to cry on.