Know what I shoulda done first.....

called her house.

Smart girl like me shoulda done that.

I didn't though.

I was in the shower when the kids came in and said "Mom, phone."

I had told them I didn't want to talk to dad tonight so I didn't think about it when I answered. I assumed it was a friend of mine that I've been talking with tonight.

It was him. He says, "Can we talk now without you hanging up." He says it softly and quietly. I'm thinking WTF! So, he talks for a few minutes about how he thinks I'm always looking for something to be there (UH - YEAH!) and that there usually is (UH - YEAH!)but sometimes there isn't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This time, he says, there isn't. According to him, he told me to hold on because some lady came up and asked for money for gas. Then, she kept asking him so he was talking to her for a minute or two. He couldn't believe I thought that was OW's voice. It was a Hispanic lady and OW is from Nebraska.

Whatever. So, his idea here is that I jump to conclusions because I'm looking for something all of the time.

Gee. I wonder how that came to be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Yep. This whole "misunderstanding" is my fault.

So then I ask him if he's listened to his voice mail. Pretty sure he hadn't since he's being nice...OR....he has and is doing damage control.

He says no and so I told him I called both him and OW to let them know I was informing the Col. of the A.

Well, WH thinks this is a horrible idea! Can you believe it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

He proceeds to tell me that when I called OW work (and didn't even talk to her, just called to see if she was at work while WH was visiting) she noted the times. Uh-huh. AND it would apparently be really bad for me if I threatened to do that because since she is in an MI unit, I could get in a lot of trouble. She threatened to get a restraining order against me last time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That would be even better! She can get a restraining order since I called her TWICE and I can contest it and say WHY I called. Let's make it all legal. I'm all for it. Can I give a deposition? It would be so much easier for an inquiry into her A!

He must have tried for 5 minutes to convince me of how it would come back to hurt ME in the end if I turn her cheatin' a$$ in. OHHHHH, I hope she gets a restraining order!!! I'm considering waiting a day or two to send this email since I'm not done composing it yet just to SEE if she does.

I DOUBLE DOG DARE HER TO!

Back to the story, he just wants to be able to talk with me. He doesn't want to have to dread the thought of it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Ok. Then stop calling!!! Dork.

Anyway, he plans on going to SAT and signing the papers for this job <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I guess we're back to that one. He's going to leave my truck and trailer at Camp Bullis and go to Guatemala next weekend. Then, he'll fly back, get my truck, drive home and start working on our marriage. He really wants to get things right with us.

He is an absolute DORK!

You didn't turn around, you're still going to SAT, and oh, you're still LYING!!

Okay. Breathe. I was wrong about her being with him though. DAMN IT. I called her apt. She's there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I mean, I'm glad they're not doing the horizontal mamba tonight, but now, I'M WRONG....and she knows it. Double damn.

Oh well. I ended the conversation with WH by telling him that I'll have the kids call each night at 7:30. We don't need to talk. He knew what I needed. He's still going to SAT. Have a nice visit with mama <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Who, by the way, is being nicey nice until he get home and is then telling him she is disappointed in him as a man, a son, a husband, and a father and wants nothing to do with the liar and irresponsible man he has become.

OUCH. From a Hispanic Catholic mom.....oooohhh. It makes me cringe! And I'm the one she just told she respects and loves and will always stand with. As she said...."You can always count with me." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Love her.

He's gonna get hit LONG AND HARD. Almost wish I was there to see it. She also bought a book called "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck. She said it is a really hard read for certain people and she's hoping he sees himself in it, because she does. And she's telling him that.

Anyway, I'm hoping to have a better time putting him out of my life. For some reason, doing that with him being the one trying to keep some hold on me is satisfying.

He does want me. He just wants me on his terms. I would have compromised my little heart out to find a way he could have "found himself" and still come home. Anywhere in the world without OW would have worked in fact.

To bad that's the one place in the world he needs to be. It's too bad our needs are so far apart from each other.

He's going to keep our appointment with Steve tomorrow morning. He can use it more than me. He's pretty far gone. As his mom says, he is pretty sick right now. She believes he is suffering a bit of the same thing his dad did after coming back from Vietnam. He was the best man I had ever met and the most amazing example of a husband. My MIL confided in me this summer that when he came back from war, he treated her badly. He would accuse her of things, act like a single guy (although I don't think there was an A) and later told her he looked back and realized he was a little crazy.

Maybe WH is having some of that. I just can't be that parental fixer now. It's a good thing he's going home to mama. She can love him a bit and them whoop his butt.

Faithinme: you said "I called her apt. She's there".

And, although I think it unlikely, it is "possible" that she has her home phone calls being forwarded to her cell phone. I have lots of friends who do that when they leave the house, so they don't miss a call.

Just something to think about! Might be wise to call her work, and see if she is there, it'd be harder (if not impossible) to forward calls from work to the cellphone.

Hang in there FIM.

FIM.....

JanetS said exactly what I was thinking.....Have you ever heard of call forwarding?

DAMN PHONES!!!! It's really hard to pin someone down these days.

I'm praying for you FIM. I also want to say that Plan B is nice, as soon as you can overcome the urge to answer the phone everytime DORK calls.

My WH is back home now. I WAS doing good before that. Getting used to doing my own thing and all.

Now, my suspicious nature comes out. I don't trust anything he say (hence the voice activated tape recorder that I'm buying today). I'm depressed.

Plan B was nice.

K

PS. I LOVE your sarcasm. It's my favorite form of humor! But then, I guess I'm kind of sick in the head that way!

PerdidainTexas, that first paragraph from Dr Glass was my relationship exactly and made me remember my reasons for separation. Faith - I can't do the Plan A thing anymore. I have been sooo nice and my WH really hasn't noticed. I don't think we stand a chance if they are still having their senses filled by the OW. He's still in contact and I can't go dark (I won't go into details - this is your thread).

Don't you worry that your girls are becoming too involved? I'm glad you've put a limit on their phone calls because they must be frightened, confused little girls at the moment. I really agree with being honest. If they ask questions, then answer them truthfully. However, I would try not to expose them to all this crap 24/7. They already know their dad is a liar, a cheat, an adulterous dork, etc etc. They know all they need to know. Now give them a break.

Incidentally, where's he getting the money from to continue with his journey?

If he is just going to sign papers for the job I would think he could have done that through air courier/fed ex or something.

His stories never seem to add up. I thought OW was in Phoenix..and then you thought she may have gone to LAX.

Yes, she could be forwarding her calls to her cell phone.

I know it doesn't feel good to start questioning yourself and always having to try to find what the real truth is in anything your WH says. Been there-done that...hated it.

I did think about the call forwarding thing last night at oh....about 3 am. I will follow up with a call to work this morning.

In any case, that's just geography. Her not being with him on this trip eases my thoughts about them being together ... AT THIS MOMENT.

He's still going to SAT though. He's still going to see her at some point. Right now, that's his plan.

So, my plan is to go on living here everday with my three kids and do the best I can.

Period.

I did wonder if she flew into LA yesterday when I saw how close he was. Maybe, maybe not. She was in Phoenix and it wouldn't have taken too much to hop a plane over. Again, maybe she did. Maybe she didn't.

Her actions here aren't really the issue right now. It's a place to focus, but not the right place. (I'm still nailing her butt to the wall though).

The real issue to me is the fact the WH is knowingly and willingly putting me in the position right now. He's choosing to run around the country doing WHATEVER he's doing. He's choosing to not be getting back to work. He's choosing to be gone from me and the kids after he has already been gone a year. He is choosing to have been THIS CLOSE to starting recovery and throwing it down the toilet.

This plan to try and leave Saturday for Guatemala, stay one to two weeks there and then drive back here is probably one of the most selfish, indulgent, stupid and irresponsible things I can imagine.

That's another MONTH before he's getting to work. That's a MONTH that his kids are without a father. That's a MONTH that we could be working on our marriage that we are not.

He's right. He does need to go away and get his priorities in order.

But, my one and only priority is to get me and the kids back to a good place...without him.

He could have been part of this process, he chose not to be.

I can't predict the future. But if I had to take a guess, right now, he won't be sleeping in my bed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
I told him I called both him and OW to let them know I was informing the Col. of the A.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your error here is informing the guilty in advance so they have time to come up with a defensive action.

Please stop telling your WH and/or OW what you are going to in advance of you actually doing it.

Just do what you are going to do. Without words of anger.

Then let them call you when the consequences hit them.

Pep

Faithinme...you are very wise, and very wonderful.

Just wanting the best for you and yours.

FIM....

If you find someway to predict the future....let me know. No, maybe not. I'm the fool who doesn't want to see!

I'm feeling this right there with you. Don't these stupid WS's realize what an awful position they put us in.....making us be suspicious, uncertain, and plain F***ing ANGRY!!!!!

I don't know about you, but the position I'm in right now is soooooo against my nature. It's killing me. Slowly but surely.

If they would just come out and say "I don't want to be married to you anymore" or some equally horrid thing, Yeah!!! it WOULD hurt. But at least we could get on with our lives sooner.

BUT, NO! They have to prolong the pain and suffering with continued lies and deceit. I have never really hated anything in my life!

I HATE LIARS AND CHEATERS!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Like I said before.....Plan B is NICE!

K (thanks for letting me vent on your thread)

Is there any possibility that he will be taking OW on a vacation to South America? (to break up and the get closure they need.) Nothing he says adds up.

So it was a lie that he needed to have training for the new job in SAT for 10 or (was it 20 days). He is taking the job, he just had to sign papers, then he was going to spend that rest of his time in SAT but now he is going to travel to Guat. before he starts the job and goes away again. Interesting how they try to intermingle a bit of truth amidst all the lies in their plans.

It seems very selfish and unnecessary to go the Guat.. It is hard to predict what he really has planned and for what reasons. He's so used to trying to be creative in his lies but he usually gets found out by you.

Maybe some of this is his acting out after being overseas and under lots of stress but at some point enough is enough.

I really don't know how he is affording all these trips...wonder how much he has in his secret account.

I wish you would have turned her in late last week (I thought you already had) when you found out he was actually going to see her. And I agree that you shouldn't have given them a heads up about it. I find it hard to believe that they could do anything to you...sounds like scared threats.

Evil me would have also played his I love you and the kids messages with him begging you to wait to the OW. Nothing like a little ice on the fantasy.

Faith-enough. Let the CEO know and call her (OW) parents again. He's going on vacation with her is my bet.

Faith I am saying a prayer for you and your family. He needs a quick dose of growing up. I am so sorry. He has been a real SOB to your family, his Mother and most of all you. I just don't know what to say. He's acting like it's him and the OW against the world. Take yourself out of the action. THen they won't have that too. This just stinks faith.

I am not giving up. He could still be that man you married, but he is acting like a spoiled bratt right now. He's in there somewhere. He just might not get back in time for you. He is LBing like crazy. He may never get the kid's respect back either. THis just stinks.

We love you faith. I saying one of those nice RC prayers to St Jude for you. Your WS really needs it!

No matter what, you will be OK. You have it in you to survive. Stay where you are for now, but think about moving closer to your family for support if he keeps this up. HUGSSSSSSSSSSSS! Jersey Girl. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

FiM,

Hate to see you setback like this, back to assuming he's with her (cuz he probably is) and assuming this whole thing abut training in SAT and the side-trip to Guatemala is all a lie (cuz it probably is).

So assume he's with her, on their little vacation, and do as you wish. We'll all support you here.

Oh, and that little threat about harrassment? She just doesn't want you calling her work and knowing that she is NOT there. She doesn't want you to get the PROOF.

Have you called to turn them in yet? Seems like it is high time to do that. Then dark.

I'm hurting for you today, kiddo. Keep your chin up.

~ Snow

Lemonman,

Just short note. Thanks for the info on your background. I know you have been through the ringer and that you gave it your all. I wish yours was a success story for others to hang on to.

I can't call my restored marriage an MB success story because I didn't find my way here until six months after dday. But I had been operating, by instinct, in a Plan A all along. And there was still contact at the workplace, for 18 months after dday. So I am not one who always touts the MB line on that one.

But it all makes so much sense, Plan A and Plan B. And there are marriages whose healing is directly owed to the MB principles.

I think that as long as you have the stomach to stand for your marriage, that is what you should do. Yeah, you get some real hurts in the process, but if a family is saved, I think it is worth it.

In your case, it didn't work out. And for that I am truly sorry. Maybe it won't work out in FiM's case, or for others who post here. But it is always worth the try. Always.

God bless you!

~ Snow

Well, I just got off the phone with Steve Harley. WH had said last night that he would keep the appointment with him this morning....but <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> SURPRISE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> he didn't.

His phone was turned off when I tried to call right before the appt. to see if he was still going to call. I waited about 20 minutes and called Steve myself. Sure enough. No call from WH.

I had sent an email to Steve this morning updating the situation in case...rather WHEN....WH didn't come through with all the info should he have called.

Well, Steve still seems to think there's some hope. But that he's still the uber-addict he acts like right now.

He's willing to talk with WH as time allows sometime today if I have the opportunity to let him know that, so I just hope WH is willing to call. Steve has always been able to get through to him.

He also feels that I should keep talking with him for a while. That listening to his babble, knowing he is lying, but trying on part to stick to the facts will help bring him back to reality. Sort of like this....

Dork: "I really need to be by myself to find me again."

Me: "Okay. I understand. How should I take care of the house payment right now."

Dork: "It will work out. I just have a feeling it will. Anyway, you're going to win the lottery, remember!"

Me: "I need to buy formula and groceries tomorrow. How should I go about doing that?" (this is said in the right tone, questioning not accusing or engaging)

Dork: "I'll figure something out."

Me: "Okay."

FYI: I've got money. He doesn't know that though.

The idea is to bring him out of his little fantasy, his self-absorbed world, for at least a short while.

I need to keep to facts, not emotions. Let him talk, but bring it back to facts.

His mom is paying for the ticket to Guatemala. She really wants to get him home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> She is also going to ask him to bring our baby with him. He'll need to come home to get him and there is no way he's going on a road trip! His mom feels a special connection to her husband through Mateo, so she really does want to see him. She's considering making it more than a little request.

And since his mom is buying the ticket and hosting him there, OW won't be there. That would be kind of funny though! Mama is about 5' 1 and maybe 100 lbs. I'd put my money, WAT's boat, Believer's Harley and Pep's humor on Mama taking down that 5'7, 170 lb. harlot in less than one round! That's a fantasy to get me through the long nites! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So, Steve wants to talk with WH and figure out a plan. He told me I'm right to question EVERY
THING right now and assume it's a lie. He said to try and have the attitude that under very specific conditions I would be willing to consider taking WH back. There needs to be proof now though. No more faith.

I'm going to think about all of this. Even if he turned back home right now, I'd have a few days to just think. I'll probably take Steve's advise and listen to WH while infusing a little factual info into his head. I'm going to let him call though. The kids can call before bed. I think I'm going to paint my room after all and just to cover my bases, I'm getting his stuff into boxes in the garage.

I may end up taking him back. Like I said, I can't predict the future. But, I think the very action of going through this process will help me to separate myself a bit.

I have a choice here. Should he not be welcomed back, his stuff is ready. If we end up finding a way to move forward, he'll need to move back in..to my home. He chose to leave. Things will not be the same. He left no option but to make me move forward without him right now. So I will.

I told Steve that my plan is to go forward right now with each day...as FIM. Not as a BS, not as a wife. As FIM and mom. I like FIM. I liked me more before the last few days though. I've allowed the chaos of them to swirl around me kicking up the dust of that confused out of control woman I was in August.

I can only control me. Whatever comes tomorrow or next week or next month, I know one thing. I've got me. And I have faith in that. I have faith in me.

You go, girl. You go.

Tell your MIL I just love her to pieces!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

~ Snow

Hi Faith, I'm new to mb, but i have been reading your story and think your wonderful and can tell you want to save your marriage, i was just thinking that when you finally had enough and told him he had to go to the camper or whatever it was then that he did all the things you were so happy for, so maybe that is something you should maybe think about, i am a fww and i think you should do what ever you can to get him away from the ow right away, so she won't have a chance to work on him, by you not insisting he come home right now or it is over (even if it's not0 he might be thinking he can do what he wants and you will always be there for him if and when he decides to come home, the ow is filling all the needs that you should and want to be filling and believe me she is probably bending over backwards to make him feel that everything will work out fine. just my 2 cents worth. Please don't believe anything he tells you when he is still so deep in this affair.

I really want to thank everyone for the advise and support. It means a lot right now.

I am certain, in my heart, that they are together right now. He should have hit Phoenix about noon today.

He called while I was at work today and I mentioned his mom wanted him to bring the baby. You know what his bright <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> idea was?

GET A LOAD OF THIS..... (I have to write this stuff just to know one day it really, truly happened!)

He says that might not be a bad idea. Yeah....that could work. He'll:

Drive to San Antonio still
Leave the truck, trailer and belongings there
Fly back to Tacoma
Pick up the baby
Fly to Guatemala
Fly home to Tacoma
Drop baby off
Fly back to San Antonio
Pick up truck, trailer and belongings
Drive back to Tacoma to live happily ever after

D <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> R <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

So, if I had to guess he met her in Phoenix today, if they weren't already together, and they are driving to San Antonio.

Therefore, there's no way he'll drop her sleezy butt off to get herself back home on her own in order to save his family.

Heaven forbid should he actually turn around, drop off the truck here, pick up the baby, go to Guatemala and come home.

Too easy.... Oh WAIT.... THAT would be OW.

Jack*ss.

Does he honestly think he's not transparent here? I just don't get it. That's really what it comes down to.

I can't wait for him to get his butt Guatemala. He's gonna get a can opened on him like he can't even IMAGINE!!

Mom's a little insulted that he won't even come home to bring her grandson to see her considering she's financing his family why he doesn't work and is paying for his trip. He has no idea what he is walking into.

I'm glad she's there. I don't know that anyone else has a chance to really make him open those eyes wide enough to see. I hope she can be the light through the fog.

Actually, by the time she's done running him through the ringer, he'll be seeing stars bright enough to lead him out all on his own!!

If he doesn't come through, I'm afraid he'll be losing more than me and the kids. He'll lose his extended family, respect and legacy. His mom pretty much figures he is shaming the family by his actions. I hope for her, his remaining family and most of all for him, that something works...soon.

Faith -

Don't give up yet. Your husband is going through the typical WS syndrome. They all act exactly the same. He is deeply in the fog.

The bad part of all this is when they lie so much, even if they were telling the truth, the BS can't believe them. I have gone through that with my WS. He lied so much, that I can't believe anything he says.

Hang in there, you are doing fine.

FIM:

POst deleted as it was not meant to offend you. Good luck in dealing with this, you are a stronger person than I.

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

Wow.

I have to say that I do hope YOU feel better after that.

DO you feel better?

If this bothers you so much, you do not have to click on this thread and read it.

FYI...truth be told, I'm not waiting right now. I don't believe I said that. Rather, I was conveying my thoughts on a truly stupid idea and what he will be dealing with in terms of his family from the choices he is making.

Yeah, his mom will rip him apart. Is she sending him back to me?

No.

Is he coming here?

He probably will come back to Washington where we live.

Will he be living here?

I don't know.

In the last 48 hours I have come to a place where, NO, I'm not fighting for this man. Neither am I saying "no chance in hell." I have a belief that two of the most overused words in the English language are never and always. I do not know what the future holds. I won't say I'll never take him back for the simple reason that I do believe he still has a chance to be a better man.

Do I believe the concept of a WS being in a fog and acting like an addict? Yes I do. I happen to believe, as do many others, that that is exactly where he is right now.

I'm not sitting here supporting that right now though. You may see it that way. You may be right. I don't see it that way right now. I trust my instincts, which right now tell me NOTHING, but they will when it's time. I trust the advise from Steve Harley. And if you read many of the signature lines here, you'll find plenty of people who have benefited from this little MB plan. I trust that.

And the fact of the matter is, I am able to deal with it right now. I'm a pretty strong gal. I come here a lot right now. I just don't know many people who've been in this situation. And, well, the people here are kinda nice:)

I appreciate the fact that there are so many different kinds of people, different view points and yet a sense of community. I also appreciate the fact that generally, opinions can be given in, well, a less than b*tchy manner. In fact, 2x4's and dissenting views can actually be given in much the same way.

And I'll let you in on a little FIM history. I know when to walk away. I'm actually pretty darn good at it.

My mother and 2 sisters live within 10 miles of me. I haven't seen them in 10 years.

My mother is a drug addict who allowed her children to develop those same addictions so she could have someone to be high with. She has chosen over and over to not change her life and when it became too much for me to live with and to protect my children, I walked away.

The woman who gave me life and the sisters that I raised for her are right around the corner. But I can and did move on when the time came for it.

I am not afraid to look deeply at one that I love and see them for what they are. Nor am I unable to admit I can do no more and walk away. I believe I am a smart enough gal to know when the game is done.

But, I won't walk away because I'm down in the bottom of the ninth.

Hell! I've been through the glory years of the Mariners a few years back and know you can come up from behind to kick some [censored].

I also know that just because you win a lot of games, you don't necessarily take the pennant.

I believe I'll know when it's time to end the season of my marriage.

I do appreciate your concern though.

Your tone. No.

Your concern. Yes.

Thank you.


(greatly edited for general attitude)

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: faithinme ]</small>