</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong> TWOVM:
First, WELCOME!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Thank you. I'll say it again: You 2 have a great oppor2nity here, regardless of whether you stay 2gether or not.
Hmmm..ok My W has been invited 2 read what I write here on more than one occasion, and she hasn't been interested. She hasn't been interested, by the way, because she shares the view you just expressed. She even said, early on, that "MB is a bunch of Christians that will ultimately try 2 convert you 2 share their fundamentalist beliefs."
Well, I have noticed that MB seems to be connected somehow to the Christian thing but that is not what necessarily bothers me about MB. For the record, Im an atheist too. I'm an atheist, and that hasn't happened. What HAS happened, though, is that I've become very spiri2al during my "journey" since D-day, 33 months ago. Still an atheist, though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
People tend to go that route when they go through something traumatic--BTW-have you been to Sedona, Arizona? You would like it. I suppose that, lately, my W still thinks my thinking has been influenced by my participation here. She said, just 2 months ago, that my coaching with Penny Tupy (
www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com ), who was trained by Dr. Willard Harley, author of Marriage Builders, was "insulting."
I am leary of anything that is "scripted". I don't mind a guide every now and again (ie counseling) but I worry that people want something or someone to do the thinking for them. Not being able to make one move without consulting a website just worries me .
She won't participate in marriage counseling with me, though we tried it at our HMO for a few months after D-day. But she is in individual counseling and we are slowly working on recovery.
By comparison, the dialog that you and VM are having is truly miraculous, regardless of how good or bad it feels for you right now.
Thank you...we are a special couple I believe. But honestly, it bothers me that you know about our private dialogs... "Well, I am going to have my say here since this is this is the first time I can speak for myself."
Again, WELCOME.
Again, Thank you. The beauty of a site like this is that our anonymity remains intact. That protects you and me from being directly affected by one another, but gives us the oppor2nity 2 find a way 2 communicate in meaningful, supportive ways. I will say this up front. Take what I say any way you want. "Use" the thoughts that you agree with, and feel free 2 toss the rest.
Thank you but I already do this. Maybe this is why I am considered relatively smart? I'd like 2 be helpful, but I'll need your help in order 2 do that.
I don't think I can help you to help me. That is why I pay big bucks to a professional. But its the thought that counts. I'm sure others here can speak for themselves, but you'll quickly find that we all have each other's best interest at heart.
Actually in the end, we all have our own best interest at heart. "ol 2' long I can understand what you are saying here but let me tell you that you need not place your recovery template over my situation."
Well, it's not really my template. If you go 2 the home page and read the articles, you'll see where the thoughts expressed here come from.
Once again...a template?? All our particular si2ations are unique, but you will quickly realize, if you read here for a while or talk 2 a pro-marriage counselor much, that there are many common aspects 2 all affairs.
Yes, but not common enough for a 1,2,3 approach. "I know you went and are going through your own hell but keep in mind that you are in that "mission" mode."
Well, I WENT through a good year of hell, then another year and a half of purgatory or something like that, before I got 2 the state where I am now - I have transformed myself in2 a better husband, by eliminating many of the bad habits and behaviors I had before finding out about my W's A.
Congrats, hopefully my husband can do the same. I am on a mission, admittedly, but it's a mission 2 save my M and keep my family 2gether, not affect someone else's.
Everyone needs a mission of some sort... Whether you should save your marriage or not is up 2 you 2 decide, for YOURSELF. I post 2 threads like this one for somewhat selfish reasons - I LEARN something more each time I do, each time I get feedback from someone here about how they might apply "my read" of MB methods 2 their own sitch. And I take what I learn and try it in my own life. Maybe I succeed, maybe I fail. You tell me.
Yes, I believe that, as I said above, your own best interest at heart...and mind you, this isn't a bad thing..its human nature "What I mean by that is it similar to the new vegetarian or new religous person."
I always wanted one of those T-shirts that says "Sacred cows make righteous hamburgers" but decided that I might offend someone if I wore it outdoors.
It wouldn't be the first time you offended someone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I'm not a vegetarian, but one of my sisters is. I try not 2 offend her 2 often. And like I said above, I'm not religious, but I am spiri2al. I am fanatical about marriage, though.
Oops..Jury is still out for me on that one! I'll freely admit that. I am NOT voting for Dubya, though.
Me neither... I don't believe that we should turn the Consti2tion of the United States in2 a dictionary.
No, actually HE needs a dictionary "You tend to think "you know" what is right for everyone."
I can come across that way sometimes. I'm sorry. I certainly don't mean 2. As for whether I believe it 2 be true or not? No. I KNOW for a FACT that I don't know what is right for everyone. Heck, I don't always know what's right for ME. I do know what I've learned here and by LIVING my life - good and bad parts of it at the same time. Bad? I don't know FOR CERTAIN that my W would NOT be better off with Rat Meat (my nickname for her OM) than with me and her family.
Rat Meat? Ouch...Fog talk?? Just kidding <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ]
I don't know for certain that they're not still in contact.
Ooof...I know the feeling. Good? My beautiful, intelligent, outgoing daughter is getting married in March. That brings me great joy. My W and I saw her trying on her wedding gown a month or so ago. She was STUNNING.
I bet she was! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> "I don't take what you said personally because you would be saying it to anybody regardless of who they are or situation and that my friend is the problem. You are broad brushing..."
I am, aren't I? Broad brushing does apply, 2 some degree, in vir2ally every aspect of life,wouldn't you agree?
NOPE! Not every arab is a terrorist. "and for the record, the meteorlogical terms such as FOG is not always applicable."
I'm not so good with meteorology - I'm a geologist. And where *I* do my geology, there hasn't been a whole lot of meteorology in a good 3.8 billion years.
Weather is everywhere-that is what is so amazing! There are fogs, though... ...sorry, I digress (but people here will tell you that I do that often).
Yes..fog IS weather "It has its place and time...yes. But why is anger and hatred talk have to be fog??"
You may be interested in a thread on Penny Tupy's discussion forum recently that talks about betrayed spouses' fog. It's a good read, if you're interested:
http://saveyourmarriagecentral.info...44008616&f=303002716&m=492109212 Ill read it sometime during down time at work. Recognize, though, that anger is a choice, it's not something someone else "makes you". It is an emotion you choose. It is a REACTION, not a RESPONSE 2 something you may perceive someone DID 2 you.
Ummm...Yes...I perceived that my husband averaged one affair per year for our entire marriage. A choice? So someone would CHOOSE to be angry or not being angry-hmmmm And hate, thankfully, is NOT the opposite of love, indifference is.
I read that somewhere <scratching head> ...hope I don't sound 2 much like a textbook. But if I do, it's because there are a lot of textbooks out there that sound like that. And a lot of good reasons that they do.
"Its a very REAL and NATURAL emotion and because it tends to be negative doesn't mean that person doesn't know what they are saying. Or...because it's directed at the offending spouse means that it must be FOG?"
Again, I urge you 2 read about the betrayed spouse's fog at the thread above. Let me know what you think of it, okay?
"I also understand that I met VnusMars under the rock of infidelity. I was naieve and didn't know that it could lead to more disasters down the road. I don't believe it MEANS that it would be a disaster..there are many relationships that start off "clean" so to speak and end up worse."
You are correct. Statistically (and it's pretty
No, actually HE needs a dictionary. unusual for a geologist 2 2uote statistics, you know), something like 80% of all marriages are subjected 2 infidelity. That's a staggering number. But what does that say about humanity as a whole, or YOU as an individual (or me, for that matter)? I think it says we're all pretty much human. What should we DO about it? Well, thankfully a lot of people have become professional therapists and marriage coaches because of it. But why do they get involved? You will find that MOST of them do it not because they want 2 delve in2 someone's dirt because it's intriguing or fodder for a TV movie script or seedy romance novel, but because they want 2 2rn a very negative, painful time in these peoples' lives (both betrayed and wayward spouse) in2 an oppor2nity for personal growth and marital recovery.
Yep, my sister did it. Most people who've recovered from infidelity (and, statistically, MOST married couples subjected 2 infidelity choose recovery over divorce) will tell you that their marriage is better than it ever was before the affair.
Yeah, but I certainly wouldn't WANT to go through this so that my marriage is better. It's sad that a marriage can get so strong after an affair...there must be other ways? Also, statistically, relationships born from an affair have about a 5% chance of lasting past 5 years. And STILL, I think most people here would like 2 see you and VM succeed and beat those odds some more.
Those are pretty crappy odds--I wouldn't bet in Vegas with that. But it's your choice, not ours. We can only offer advice. And, sarcastically, I've been known 2 say "the best advice I can give you is 2 never take advice". And when I say that in jest, I really do mean that you do have 2 take what you hear - here or anywhere in your life - and make your own decisions as how you want 2 live.
Problem is...alot of people don't do that. "In a perfect world...NOBODY would be attached when they meet potential partners."
That's an interesting thought. If I'm hearing you right, I think it's expressing the idea that "real" love is not romance or infa2ation, it's more "substantial" than that. I am fond of the term "unconditional love", which the Harleys and Penny Tupy prefer people stay away from in dealing with saving marriages. I disagree with most people's definition of unconditional love. I think of it as what the Harleys describe as the "deep caring love" that takes years 2 develop in a marriage, or the love you feel 2ward your kids. One of our former MBers, Spacecase, formed a website that covers this subject and many others. If you're interested, it's
www.iloveulove.com .
"Be gung ho in your own situation but please be careful when giving out advice. People ALWAYS give advice coming from their own experiences and agendas."
Very true. I will be careful.
best,
-ol' 2long </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Vnusmars' wife
