Do you think my W was self-medicating with OM, or using him as a form of self-medication?

Of course, absolutely!

Depression is a horrible, debilitating desease which KILLS desire and everything else. If he made her temporatily feel good, that is what it was about. And as Tutlehead said, I too am certain it was not about the sex, it was about avoidance and numbing the pain of depression.

Most people will do almost anything to feel good, even if it is worse for them in the long run. Having an affair is never about the affair partner, it is ALWAYS about the way the BS feels during the affair.

She needs A/D's and she needs IC for sure.

FM,

OK, I understand your problem. Mine, however, is the opposite. I get the wild, passionate sex. And it has been so great lately. Sadly, that is the one need that he didn't get from me before. I was busy with the children, busy with the house, busy with work, etc. You get the picture. I was always too tired.

Soooo I decided that I needed to make H a priority and since sex is one of his greatest needs - I have been giving him lots of it! And as Weaver said I am being much more adventuresome.

But the thing I don't get that OW did, is lots of conversation. Sweet talk, words of complete, undying love. Attention. Things I sooo desperately need. I beg for these needs to be met. I want him to give them to me without me asking. (Looking back I guess that is what he wanted from me sexually.) Now, granted he has done better, but I still need more. I don't think he is ready yet. But I still don't understand (and it hurts) that she got all this romance and attention that I don't get. Oh yes, he gave it when we were dating. I guess that just shows that they were in that enchantment mode.

Anyway, I think the advice the others have given you is very insightful. Helped me too. This is so hard. I wish you well. Perhaps you should try an explicit video or plan a private picinic in the park (secluded of course) to help your W feel that excitement with you. Do you have trusted people to keep your kids while you and W have a little fun? Especially if you could arrange a day off and plan that fun for during the day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just my thoughts. Might help your W see you in a different light. That you, the man she pledged her heart and life to, can be fun and a little kinky too. (My, my, I think I'm blushing too. I hope I don't ever meet you guys in person. Nothing personal, but I don't think I could look you in the eye. I'm a good, little southern girl.)

I hope an AD will be helpful for your W. My H is also on Lexapro. And it does not effect his sex drive at all. It seems to have different effects on others.

Hugs and prayers to you.

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong> Do you think my W was self-medicating with OM, or using him as a form of self-medication?

Of course, absolutely!

Depression is a horrible, debilitating desease which KILLS desire and everything else. If he made her temporatily feel good, that is what it was about. And as Tutlehead said, I too am certain it was not about the sex, it was about avoidance and numbing the pain of depression.

Most people will do almost anything to feel good, even if it is worse for them in the long run. Having an affair is never about the affair partner, it is ALWAYS about the way the BS feels during the affair.

She needs A/D's and she needs IC for sure. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Weaver,
The problem is since she's not depressed all of the time, but goes in and out very easily she doesn't see much of a correlation. What a selective memory. I remember distinctively my W would sleep alot, cry alot and be plain old DOWN alot for any number of reasons. My W somehow forgets at one point she broke up with OM during our separation and she fell into a deep depression losing some 30 or so pounds, she didn't eat for like a month! Of course this only fueled the fire within her that OM is THE ONE FOR HER. I guess its too much for her to see the cause for the depressive stint as facing reality all that she had given up, home, husband, life, family structure to pursue a man barely out of his teens only to end up alone? That's enough to depress anyone but of course my W sees that depressive stint as a reassurance that OM is her WEAKNESS. OM is not her weakness the emotional pain she inflicts on herself is her weakness, that coupled with depression and self-loathing or her need to escape that mind state at any and all costs.

Excuse me while I go count to 50 real slow so I can remain cool and calm at work. My W just doesn't want to understand this stuff, me understanding it helps little, her logging in here and reading would help oodles! I guess she feels she will be attacked. I don't see it as an attack but a 4X4 to the head ever so often is a well-meant friendly nudge to get your head back in the game. People here are interested in helping people either save their sanity or their M and sometimes; BOTH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

We are not a crew of bullys and brow beaters at least no one here has ever beat my brow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

There is no way your WW would be attacked on here. Okay, make a deal with her...if she logs in (on a monday cus weekends are so slow) and just says hi or something to let everyone know she is here and if anyone at all says one mean word to her, then you will never ask her to log on again, AND you will take her away for a nice weekend getaway.

There are so many on here who have been in her shoes that she would make lots of friends. Well we know that, but how to convince her. hmmm

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong> There is no way your WW would be attacked on here. Okay, make a deal with her...if she logs in (on a monday cus weekends are so slow) and just says hi or something to let everyone know she is here and if anyone at all says one mean word to her, then you will never ask her to log on again, AND you will take her away for a nice weekend getaway.

There are so many on here who have been in her shoes that she would make lots of friends. Well we know that, but how to convince her. hmmm </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly.
Her reluctance worries me very much. I wonder if she's really in NC...if a WS is in NC why wouldn't you want to post here, especially if you've recommitted to your M. If you are not to truly committed and you want to fence sit or cake eat then yes I can see how being apart of a M support group would just make life harder. I make many assumptions and I'm sure if I ask her to again she will give me yet another excuse. So much for being willing to do anything to save our M...for GOD's sake we don't have to arrange for a babysitter, we dont have to get in the car and drive all we have to do is log on and at least share ideas and concepts. I don't think I ask too much, but then again there is that darn POJA right? I almost forgot about that huh?

FM
This is not meant to excuse your WW's behavior in anyway. Studies have shown that the brain chemistry in a new "love" relationship raises the level of Serotonin, which occurs naturally at some levels in the brain. Serotonin plays a large role in the development of depression. Many of the anti-depressants medications help elevate serotonin levels. Again, not an excuse, but a possible factor.

I started a thread for WW/FWW. Would she perhaps feel safe in posting on that thread?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by naivegirl:
<strong>I hope an AD will be helpful for your W. My H is also on Lexapro. And it does not effect his sex drive at all. It seems to have different effects on others.

Hugs and prayers to you.

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To be fair incase my W is lurking allow me to mention:

My W says she is also mourning the lost of her extra-curricular activities, comings and goings. you know leaving me with the children while she was out (sometimes w/OM) till 2 sometimes 3,4 in the morning. Sorry but that had to end, you cannot be M'd and then live a single persons life and if her times were not spent cheating on me why didn't she phone home all those times, why is the cellphone suddenly left in my truck? Why when I finally confronted OM on the cellphone he admitted my W had spent the weekend with him and his family at their family reunion? Mind you, my W had lied and told me she had an important company function to attend for her job both Friday and Saturday.

Now my W blames me for her being sort of tied down and unable to pursue her fun times with OM because I blew the whistle and confronted OM. I don't like rehashing all of this crap but I want people to understand the full story so their advice or comments are more slanted to my personal situation. I sometimes think sub-consciously or consciously even my W is punishing me for pulling the plug on her "Strictly Friendship" relationship with OM, according to her they were no longer intimate, at least not during our reconciliation they were just good friends by this time and my calling him and divulging that she lived with me so why is he calling my W was just vindictive and ruined her harmless friendship. That's it guys I'm getting upset again. I'm beginning to feel that it's time to stop being hurt, upset, disappointed and betrayed and now it's time to take care of myself. I just want whatever happens next to be it, I don't want to throw in the towel just for her to snap out of her fog and come back and then I somehow agree to reconciliation, but I also don't want to continue putting up with these excuses, half truths and spiteful actions. Lord help me be the better man that I know I can be.

I keep telling myself that in any relationship INFIDELITY can creep in so I might as well give recovery all that I can right now with the mother of my children and the only woman besides my mother whom I owe such a struggle. I know for a fact if I were to remarry and my new W was to hava an A unless she was 1000% remorseful, admitted without getting caught and agreed to NC forever all at the same time, that I'd file for Divorce immediately, no ifs ands or buts. My W of course has commented that I'm being to lenient with her, that I'm too trusting of her...what else can I do. I have her cell password, work voicemail passwords???? What else can I do put a LO-JACK on her booty??????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sorry that part was funny...lol

Last night I tried my best to be as compassionate and expressive regarding my desire to save my marriage and be there for my W in anyway she needed. I told her how I see it as part of my duty to her and our children that I support her as she struggles with her issues, I do not intend on walking away. I want to be a better man than that. She told me that she thought it was best that I move on with my life. I went to bed alone again.

This morning was very bad. I couldn't help but feel that she should leave. I talked to her about all types of things until I felt my head was going to burst. This is no use, this whole situation is making me a person I do not desire to be. I want to mend my family. My W calls what she goes through, the endless bouts of depression, the UPs and DOWNs constantly the fading in and fading out...she will not accept that these things are NOT normal. The fact she has been so UNHEALTHY for so long leads her to believe that these depressive, self-loathing bouts are just "How She Is". They do not have to be!!! We can get help. I do not want to allow depression to steal my W from me, my children and I don't want depression to steal my W from herself. Do you have any idea how hard it is to reason with someone who will not reason, only cry and CRY and CRY and not look you in the eye, stares at the floor and crys more and more and you are not saying these things just for yourself, but you are saying them for her benefit.

I pleaded with my W to get help. I asked her to take my hand and lets face this depression TOGETHER, me supporting you. She says I'm forcing her and she does not like to be forced. I'm forcing her now? I did not sign up to be married to a woman who will not seek help if she needs it and continues to torture me by closing me out and withholding and revealing plans to take her life, or plans to hurt herself. This is all so unimaginable. I want her to be healthy, not just for me but for the kids and for herself, she sees this as CONTROL. This isn't just about being married anymore. Now she says she's depressed because she misses OM's Mom...why is it that you continually cling to older woman you meet? She even equated no longer dealing with OM's mom as a form of suicide or a form of grieving for a deceased relative?!?! I don't see this the same way, I see it as unhealthy attachments to people who have their own families and partners and loved ones and then she inserts herself into their family schemes and this makes her feel better about herself, the mother she never had the true family she never had...but the problem is WE DO HAVE A FAMILY!!! We have started a family. Our family is not as big as their, but this family is truly YOUR family, its OUR family. A W, A H, A S, and A D.

I begged her to allow me to post a thread just highlighting her depression and asking for input from you all as to somethings we can do that some of you have done/are doing in similar situations. Her response: They are not experts!

Okay, so now I have a person with a problem who will not seek help, who feels that don't need help, and refuses my help, or anyone elses help...okay so what choices do I have? SEPARATION from her until she accepts responsibility for her future and the pain she is causing others? At some point self-preservation does come into play. It's very hard to live as roommates with your W. Okay, so this is a viable option right? Wrong because she won't seek help and she will not leave, and she will not love me and she will not communicate, and she will not hold my hand and do what we can to make it better. She is lost and she is starting to drive me crazy. I was late for work today and I've only been at this job for a month. I cannot lose my job. I cannot lose my mind. I have already lost my W, I wish it weren't so, but saving myself seems the only way to go. Are there some people I can call who will come see my W or follow up, or help? She takes pills to hurt herself. She forces herself not to eat as a means of punishing herself. She closes herself off from others and cries. She replays past events repeatedly hoping for differnt outcomes to unchangeable scenarios that are long beyond fixing. She has dreams of suicide. She has said on may occassions if it weren't for her S she would take her own life.

What can I do???????

I don't want this weight anymore. I want to go to work, make a living, love my children, find my daughter, bring her home, teach her that NO running away is wrong...I know you mother had done it 3 or so times over the past year but it's still WRONG...I just want some peace. I cannot take this anymore and its effecting my ability to function as myself and I cannot allow that anymore.

((((((((FM))))))))))I wish a hole bunch of us could come there and rescue you from this ...

DOES you know what will make HER happy?
Does she say what she wants in her life ?

Please do not take this wrong here and I mean no harm ... at all ... Nor do I want to add to any more of your stress , pain and sadness ...

IS your W just playing a game to get you give up and through her back to OM ???

I mean if she walked away or you walked away would she suddenly be OK ,, no crying no talking of killing herself if she resumed contact with OM ?

I am no expert ,, not even close most times of a clue LOL

BUT I guess this could be Heavy withdrawal and depression (illness) all together ...

There does come a point where someone else can not FIX something for someone if they do not CHOOSE to be fixed then well it will not happen ...

I do belive you can give her the tools ,, show her the path ,,, then it will be in her hands ..

YOU need to continue to be healthy for you and your children and she needs to GROW up JMO .

Thinking of you and your family .

FM, hugs to you brother and friend!

I've been staying "away" as I really don't know how much help I will be in my own state of mind. But, not a day goes by where I think about you and offer/ask a little prayer.

I know when brown was in her depression and finally "hit rock bottom" with her mental breakdown, she couldn't function AT ALL. I had to (reluctantly--what a d!ck, huh?) make the calls, take her, thought I was going to have to carry her. (Pun intended.) I did EVERYTHING for a long time, including setting everything up for her. BUT, she wasn't dealing with the withdrawal of an A at the same time.

IMHO, this is one area where the rules need to be thrown out the window--temporarily: YOU NEED TO GET HER TO A PSYCHIATRIST AND NOW! This is so much more than fog/withdrawal/whatever one wants to call it. It's beyond you; it's beyond her.

Again, in my own state of mind, I want to try and be positive for you, but, in YOUR state of mind, I don't see any hope unless this happens. Recovery will NOT happen unless, again, IMVH (and humble) O this happens.

Continued prayers and thoughts, my friend.

Thank GOD!

The cops found my D!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so happy right now!!!!!!

I am so blessed!!!!!!

They have her and they are placing her in a juvenile detention center until her court date for of all things ASSAULT.

She may have a venereal disease
She may be pregnant
She was living with a boyfriends mother somewhere close to 30 miles away in another state!
She was found because the police were called to the residence because there was some fighting, hence the assault charge.

I am just thankful that my D is alive and safe!

I could understand my W's depression if she once said it was about our missing DAUGHTER but she instead cries about missing OM's MOTHER and her FREEDOM...what selfish crap when you have a D 14 years old, missing, on the streets of DC!!

How can my once loving wife be so selfish and depressant?

Well, time to block out those thoughts and focus on my D being found and a huge weight being removed from my shoulders.

I can finally exhale, even if it's just for a moment.

<small>[ October 29, 2004, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

YAY!!!!!!!!!! for your D being alive and whole.
Have you seen her yet?

Regarding your W, it's so hard to know if she's suffering from clinical depression, or withdrawal from OM, or both.

You said she cries a lot and took pills to hurt herself. Is there anything a crisis line could do in the way of advising you?

Hugs to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by turtlehead:
<strong> YAY!!!!!!!!!! for your D being alive and whole.
Have you seen her yet?

Regarding your W, it's so hard to know if she's suffering from clinical depression, or withdrawal from OM, or both.

You said she cries a lot and took pills to hurt herself. Is there anything a crisis line could do in the way of advising you?

Hugs to you. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know these are whole other issues...
I'm slipping out of the MB scope into other dramas and dilemmas. I do think the whole withdrawal from Exposure did lead to the depression and later guilt and tada here we are. She has agreed to counseling so I will seek that...she changes her mind daily but my fingers are crossed.

YAY!! My D is safe!!!
I hope she isn't pregnant, or have any venereal diseases but the fact she's alive and safely somewhere where she can be protected is my main concern at the moment. They are running test now and if I find out someone MOTHER or an ADULT has been harboring my D I will PRESS CHARGES!!!
My D has been missing for over a month and teenagers don't have apartments so where the heck has she been staying?!?!?!?

Okay FM calm down...LORD help me...these women are driving me crazy...no offense to you great women on MB I'm just referring to the closest women in my life, W and D. I tell you this is all related. My D ran away 2 days after my W came back from her hiatus of almost a week and a half...its all related, its like they are cohorts in my destruction or something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> If one isn't hurting me the other one is, it's as if they take turns disappointing and punishing me. I need a weekend retreat! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But my D is safe so life is good, GOD is GOOD...always....all the time....!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 3isacrowd:
<strong>

IS your W just playing a game to get you give up and through her back to OM ??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for commenting 3isa,
It's all very confusing but my W denies she wants to be with OM. She says she just misses his and his family's friendship. My W has explained it to me in differnt ways but basically:

She feels 100% positive she wants to be with me and she is very excited about the future and all that life holds for us

and
then

BAMMMMMMMMMM!

She's back to feeling indecisive, she's back to feeling isolated without all of these other people in her life, she's back on the fence, she's back to shutting me out and treating me coldly for taking away her friends and her old life....

and then time will pass...a week maybe two weeks and she will start to feel happy again...happy that I hung in ther during the last 2 weeks when she kept pushing me away...Life seems great, there is talk of the future...we have SF, we watch movies and laugh and eat great meals, maybe go out to dinner or take in a movie....


and

then

You Guessed IT!

HEre we go again...............

*sigh

<small>[ October 29, 2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
<strong>IMHO, this is one area where the rules need to be thrown out the window--temporarily: YOU NEED TO GET HER TO A PSYCHIATRIST AND NOW! This is so much more than fog/withdrawal/whatever one wants to call it. It's beyond you; it's beyond her.

Again, in my own state of mind, I want to try and be positive for you, but, in YOUR state of mind, I don't see any hope unless this happens. Recovery will NOT happen unless, again, IMVH (and humble) O this happens.

Continued prayers and thoughts, my friend. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey LINY...thanks for commenting!!
How the heck are you and Brown...please hang in there I need someone to cheer for!!!!!!

I agree this is all beyond me, and yes it's beyond what she can control as well. I do not want to let her down, if I walk out now when she needs me most I would feel less of myself. This is by far life in hell though and I know I need help so I don't end up doing more damage than good.

Thanks for the encouragement!

I'm going to do all I can!!!!!!

....of course I called my mom today and told her about D being safely found...She wept!
Then she asked about my M and my W last week when we spoke I told her things were going well....a few days before that my mom spoke to my W and my W also said things were going very well...

My mom was floored to hear things were back in a downswing. My mom is totally exasperated by my W's back and forth moods regarding OM and OM's family and my W's indecisiveness about wanting to be married, not wanting to be here than a week later wanting to be here like its the most sure choice in her life.

My mom is convinced that my W is in contact with OM and OM's family and when they ward her off or when they don't respond the way she wants them to my W slips back into a depression. My mom is so certain my W is in contact and lying to me this whole time. I do not know what to believe. I do have the strength to let my W go, really I do, I am hanging in there because I feel I owe her not because I'd be lost without her; We've been separated for 2 years and maybe just maybe that's too long a time frame to come back from, maybe she was too far into her R with OM and just because he ended it doesn't mean we can salvage our M. I mean folks things are looking very grim as far as my M. I don't know what to do, my mom sure sounded convincing. I haven't said a word to W about anything though and we are still sleeping in separate rooms. I don't want a Wife roommate, I'd rather be divorced. Sorry that's the truth.

Good night friends

*{{{{{{{MB}}}}}}}*

<small>[ October 30, 2004, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FamilyMatters:
<strong>I agree this is all beyond me, and yes it's beyond what she can control as well. I do not want to let her down, if I walk out now when she needs me most I would feel less of myself. This is by far life in hell though and I know I need help so I don't end up doing more damage than good.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll leave my post to just my response to this...Not "How the heck are you and brown?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I was very weak, confused, young, unhappy, selfish, etc etc man when this all went down with brown. I am still trying to forgive myself (brown already has) for acting the way I did. I wasn't strong like you are. She needed me most and I took the "In order to get help you need to help yourself first" too literally. She had to do this alone. And to make matters worse, to some extent, I blamed my state of being on her! WTF! Then, as they say, the rest is history with my story.

No, you can't "fix" her. Won't happen. But just by being there....

And AMEN!!!! regarding your daughter!