thanks WAT, I feel so alone now and plan B will be agonizing for me, I do have to say tho that this time (he left once at dday for a week) I do feel a little stronger and not such a basket case! He is dependant on me for caregiving and reassurance, hell, the morning he left, when I knew he was going to see OW for weekend, I told him I loved him and I would be here for him! Jesus, who's the crazy one!!! He remembers that too cause he repeated it to me. I would think that by him just not being at home would be enough of a shock of reality! Now I have to add to that and go dark? I dont want to plan A him anymore, but I dont LB either, I told him that I wasnt going to be the giver any longer, that my love bank was empty and going into the negative, it was time for HIS PLAN! Been working off MY PLAN for a solid year! So even with him out of his comfort zone, going dark is still a must??? This is where I am confused!!

WOW, SABOT:

It's amazing! I've been exactly in your position. I think you have a good chance of recovery. It sounds like your PLAN A was effective. It does seem like its time for PLAN B.

I struggled a lot with PLAN B. I called myself a PLAN B failure many times throughout the process. I don't want to be a bad role model for you. I don't want you to make the mistakes I did. I'm saying this because I think PLAN B was the key for our relationship.

I'll put it this way. I struggled to remain as dark as possible during PLAN B with urgings from the folks on this site. My FWH tried every way possible to get me to breakdown. I wrote the PLAN B letter which was a love letter and ended up being a road map for him. I spelled out under what conditions that we could reconcile. So the letter was key. I think he kept it and read it frequently during our separation. He specifically referred back to it there at the end.

What you and I have in our favor is the longevity our relationships with our WSes. Your WH, like mine, is connected with you in so many ways that he is having a hard time letting go of you. However, he is now seeing the OW as his last chance at life.

What he will learn if you give him the opportunity to be with her 24/7 is that she cannot be you. He will try to make her into you and she will fail. She will fail to meet the needs you meet for him and have met for him. However, you have got to give her room to hang herself. She will! She will fail and he will start missing you. You have to give him that opportunity to see her for what she REALLY is. My FWH actually told me that he learned that she is "just like any other woman". He had a fantasy that she was this miracle worker.

So after I wrote the PLAN B Letter, I changed my home phone would not answer my work and cell phones. Also, I put our house up for sale 2 months later and it sold on the very first day. That was the first day he became slick and got me to answer a call from him. I'll never forget. When he got me on the phone, he said "What about us?" I was shocked because in my mind at that time there was no US. I was moving on and buying me and new house. The rest is history. He now lives in the new house with me.

Hope this short synopsis of a very long story helps.

Update, WH sister called him and had a long talk with him, she cried and told him he needed help and needed to just STOP! WH called me to tell me that he mowed the grass, fixed the fence, and already fed the dogs. He called 4 times and I did not answer. He then got me at the house. About 15 min. after that call, he called again and I asked him if he forgot something and he said "Just wanted to know if I could take you out to dinner?" I said "I dont think that would be a good idea." He said Ok, talk to ya later and I said bye! Is this the correct response to him at this point? Jeez, the nerve, after all he's put me through and just went to OW for weekend,...now wants to take me to dinner!!!!! I am exhausted over trying to figure out what hes doing!!!! I hope I did the right thing, it was so damn hard!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sabot:
<strong>Is this the correct response to him at this point?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO!

You're still in Plan A, right?

Play this right and you may not need Plan B.

Plan B is when you go dark and Plan B doesn't start until you send him a Plan B letter.

Until you do this, you're in Plan A and you should be trying to fill his ENs and demonstrating an attractive reality to contrast his fantasy.

So, next time he asks you out to dinner or requests any time with you, JUMP AT THE CHANCE! Then put on your best Sabot and be the woman he married. Be strong, self assured, and desireable.

WAT

Listen to WAT !

Go out to dinner. Be your BEST SABOT!

You all are really confusing me!!! I did Plan B, I did so verbally! If I went out to dinner with him would that not AGAIN tell him he can have his cake and eat it too, that he would not make a decision on which one of us he wants???? Oh great, he can leave home, go have weekend .... with OW, come back to town and call me and ask me out to dinner!!! Thats a game if you ask me and what does it say to him if I say YES?? That he can continue to treat me like crap!!!??? I thought I did the right thing for ONCE!!!! I have never refused him until now!!!

bump

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did Plan B, I did so verbally! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan B requires a letter. One good reason it requires a letter is so WS can refer back to it while they are still in the fog. Another good reason is simply because the Harley's say so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Follow the plan as the Harley's suggest and you will have the best chance that it will work.

One year in Plan A is way way too long by all standards. What WAT and Star*fish are asking you is did you do a good one? You should ask yourself this before you go totally dark into Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I went out to dinner with him would that not AGAIN tell him he can have his cake and eat it too,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. Since you are still in Plan A (because you have not sent a Plan B letter) your WS is entitled to do a little cake eating. As WAT said you should have jumped at the chance. Why? Because you are in Plan A.

Now, if you decide that you have done a sufficient Plan A. Meaning that you have satisfied all of the criteria that Star*fish specified on the first page of this topic. Then it is time to go to Plan B. Plan B means no contact and is initiated with a letter.

What does NO CONTACT mean?

Do not answer his phone calls.

Do not talk to him.

Do not meet him anywhere.

Do not send him any letters.

Do not text message him.

Nothing Nada No contact.....At all....None. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Of course, this could be a little different when children are involved. And it all depends on the terms you put in your Plan B letter.If he decides to play by the rules in the Plan B letter and can prove it. Then you can begin to negotiate the terms of your recovery.

Please continue to post and let us know how things are going.

Take Care

C.

<small>[ October 29, 2004, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Thanks so much Shamely and all of you,
Well, heres update: Thurs. is when I turned WH down for dinner. Friday, yellow cab co. calles me because WH got drunk (thurs.night) and left cell phone in cab! I called WH and told him, but kept it bus.like and short, then said bye. Later, WH calls me and going to play poker, I tell him to win and have fun. 9:30 pm, WH calls me on home phone and then cell phone (I didnt answer was in shower) I called him back, he was done w/poker, sitting in car and sounding lost, asked me what I was doing and I told him I was making chicken and dumplings in oven! He said just for you? Then stated I guess I'll just go watch tv. He sounds so pitiful, I invited him to eat, if he was hungry...he said your inviting me to dinner? Yes.
He ate, stayed the night, initiated s., and sat. morning acted like didnt want to leave (became s. aroused), but did so. 6:30 pm, calls again, what am I doing tonight? Says he doesnt feel like doing anything (sounds sad again) I invite him for a movie and pizza. He comes, watches movie, no R talk, stays night. I make breakfast (his fav.) he offers to wash dishes, he leaves, going to take movies back, go visit friend (says he will tell him I gave him a kitchen Pass). Thanks me for movie and pizza, kisses me, tells me to have a nice day! I tell him the same!
Note: He is initiating ALL Contact!
Ok, is this what you mean by still "Plan A" him?
That I may not have to go to "Plan B" even tho he is out of house?
If so, how long do I continue to allow him to come back and forth as he pleases, meeting all his needs? We have had NO R. talk.
Please give me your synopsis on the direction this looks like its going!!!
Mimi and Wats, I think, lol, I took your advice!!

You need to decide up front just how long you are going to stay in Plan A. And DO NOT TELL ANYONE how long!!! You are doing a good plan A so far. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You must become the most attractive option . I know others have said "do not become a door mat". Well Jennifer C. told me and I quote "you should have a little hat that says doormat". That is verbatem. *ducks looking for 2x4's*.

You do what works best in your situation but DO NOT LB!!! Make sure you know what your WH considers a LB too. That is a really common mistake too make. We so often try to satisfy the EN that we need for our spouses when they need an entirely different set.

You goal at this point is to Negotiate NC with the OP while still in Plan A. This would be ideal. IF it does not work within your SET TIME FRAME FOR PLAN A then you will WRITE A PLAN B LETTER AND START PLAN B . Plan B will also have a time frame that you will have to come up with when you get to that point.

Keep us posted and take care of yourself.

God Bless,

C.

Thanks again, but the only difference I see now in our situation is, He is not living here! I am still Plan Aing, and meeting his needs, and have been Negotiating NC now for almost a year. The only difference I see is that he might be missing the comfort of his HOME!! It is also killing me with anxiety everytime he leaves! Advice Please!!

Shmaley said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> IF it does not work within your SET TIME FRAME FOR PLAN A then you will WRITE A PLAN B LETTER AND START PLAN B . Plan B will also have a time frame that you will have to come up with when you get to that point. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sabot said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Negotiating NC now for almost a year. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are U ready for Plan B then? Are U ready to take shelter from your WH's selfish decisions and actions?

I have bumped a post by Orchid for you it's entitled "who's afraid of Plan B". Read this post and start writing a Plan B letter. When you get the Plan B letter written post it and we will review it here.

C.

<small>[ October 31, 2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Thanks again, I had read Orchids post before because I have been contemplating Plan B! I also think that at this point I would be willing to do whichever Plan I need to do that will be "successful", and I guess thats the whole delima!! But then I think about what all you "veterans" have said here about "small steps"! One "new positive" is He has only been away from home 1 week, initiates all contact w/me which means obviously misses me and/or comforts of home (held me all night). Or: opposite end of that thought process is, She is not here (lives 5 or 6 hrs away),he does not like where he is staying, and is still being aloud to talk to her without feeling guilty and come see me when he chooses! Remember I have not brought up any R. talk nor asked about OW! So, which way do we go? I feel as if I am in an empasse!

Have you written your Plan B letter?

I would avoid any emphasis on OW. Unless it is about setting up NC. If your WH starts a conversation about her walk away from it. Still no LB's...

It is ok to talk about R just don't let it be all you talk about. This is touchy and has to be handled with Dr. Harley's concepts in mind. Remember the Four Concepts for Successful Negotiation.? You need to utilize these concepts so that your negotiations will not take a turn for the worse. While you are still in Plan A you can read the link in my sig. also. It's good for keeping on track.

Plan A for now while you Prepare for Plan B.

C.

I think you are doing great PLAN A work now! If you have to do PLAN B, he will have great memories of this time with you.. that will lead him back home.

Why is he not living at home? Can you invite him back home? I missed that information. I had to go into PLAN B because my FWH decided to leave me to be with the OW.

I was taught by Steve Harley that PLAN B becomes necessary when there is danger of YOU becoming fed up with his cake-eating actions. It has do with preventing YOU from being finished with your marriage.

Thank you all for the replies!

He left home last week, because he said he had to go see if OW was a fantasy or not! On way back, he text msg. me saying he loves me very much! He has not said he wanted to come home, hes staying at his dads, which he hates! But I feel that he is staying away because he can still have us both and not feel guilty about it (she does live out of state however). He came and spent the night again sat. night, but left sunday to do his thing, go out with buddy friend. And I had terrible anxiety all over again! Then when he was done doing his thing, he called me, but I did not answer! What to do Mimi???

It sounds like you are getting fed up with him. What makes me think that is your decision not to answer his calls. If you are in PLAN A, I would develop a PLAN which probably would include answering his phone calls and asking him to come back home and stop contact with her. If you are going to PLAN B, work on developing that PLAN which means working on that letter.

I am a believer in going as strictly by the Harley's system as possible. That successfully worked for me. It sounds like you are wavering between PLAN A and PLAN B. It doesn't work that way. During th LATTER stages of PLAN B, I fudged just because I pretty much knew from my gut that he was ending the A. Up until that time, in PLAN A, I was in PLAN A and when in PLAN B, I was in PLAN B.

Trust your own gut instinct on this. You know your WH better than we do. However, stick with the Harley's system. Read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR! It was the bible for me. My FWH was the PRO at cake-eating and now we are very happily reconciled.

Well just since yesterday I have concluded that One size does not fit All with this program!! I followed the Plan A system for a year (which maybe did work) but at the present stage of my saga, I dont think Plan Aing was beneficial! So I did my own Plan B (my way) and LB'd all over the place (I call it getting some backbone and taking a stand). WH called wanting to chit chat like all is wonderful and I told him I did not want to small talk with him! Told him he was a Lying, Cheating, Loser with no backbone and I was DONE playing his games and had better things to do with my time! Told him I was losing respect and love for him! Go screw your WH... all you want and leave me alone! Told him I had an appt. with an attorney and I will do what I have to do!! Dont call me ever again, I do not want to talk to you and hung up! Last night, I got a text msg. from him stating "Wife, please dont give up on us!
This is the first positive response I have received from him about our relationship for a YEAR!!!!!

It could be continued cake-eating. Be careful. I did that too, Sabot. My FWH won that round by buttering me up after I got angry.

MB is the best system, I think.

Be careful until he can prove to you that he will no longer have contact with her ever again.