Her statements indicate that PLAN A is working. She wants to cake-eat. She wants to maintain a R with both of you. My FWH used the same script!

It has to be cold turkey. You can't stop smoking and continue to smoke cigarettes. You can't stop drinking and continue to drink cocktails each evening. We need the discussion about how she plans to break off total contact. She's trying to buy time with you so that she can continue to indulge herself with him. Don't let her fool you like my FWH fooled me.

THE LONGER I ALLOWED HIM TO TAKE IN BREAKING THINGS UP, WHICH HE PROMISED THAT HE WAS DOING, THE MORE I ENABLED THE A. He found relief about what he was doing by being able to run back to me. SHE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE HER CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.

Wow, what foggy thinking! You're the one that's not being a Christian? Give me a break!!! Has she read what the Bible says about marriage. FORSAKING ALL OTHERS...LET NO MAN PUT ASUNDER... I can go on and on. Jesus hated adultery. HE said that adulterers will burn in hell....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She replied that it is my actions that are destroying our marriage. She also said something that I find interesting (interpretation please):

She said that her relationship with OM is winding down and that she is limiting how much she talks with him. She says that if I will just be patient, and not try to control her, that this thing will run its course and be over with.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, before I offer a couple of possible "interpretations," let me make one thing perfectly clear. This accusation of trying to "control her" is a very common response of someone in an affair who has run up against a spouse who is now aware of the affair and is NOT willing to simply "live with unfaithfulness as a 'norm' in a marriage." You are NOT "controlling her." You are establishing YOUR Boundaries and Standards. Boundaries are those things that you will not let someone else do TO you. Standards are those thing you will not allow yourself to do TO others, they are your "moral compass," your acceptable (to you) way of treating others.

Okay, back to your quoted question. Interpretation possibilities:

1. She is sincere and the affair is dieing a "natural death" now that it can no longer be kept secret. But, she is addicted and can't just "end it now," so she is hanging onto every last dreg.

2. She is lying and it's simply going into a "cool it for now" phase, waiting for a more opportune time to reignite. Remember, she is NOT limiting the talks because she chose to end the affair. She is limiting the talks because he went back to school and is no longer available for all lengthy and frequent talks. But school is temporary and without direct action to recover your marriage and build the sort of marriage that you BOTH wish for and want, the affair will only "go underground to avoid radar" for a time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She says that I am trying to "destroy her" by telling the rest of the family about this. She says that this is not "Christian love" to do such a thing, and..."you don't see me calling you sons to tell them about their Dad's sins, do you?". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh huh, and "Christian love" IS being maritally unfaithful? Talk about fog babble! Christian love IS about lovingly confronting a fellow believer who has fallen under the "spell" of sin, to help them recognize that they are sinning against God and to help restore them to a good relationship with God. For her to use this accusation is simply trying to use YOUR belief to her advantage. If she can "guilt you" you will back off and let her keep sinning the way she wants to. As Jesus said...."go, and leave your life of sin." THAT is JESUS' (Christian) love for the person despite what they have done.

God bless.

Yeppers, listen to Mimi, she knows wot she is talking about.

The WS will make it seem like YOU are crazy. That you are jealous, or too sensitive. They will try to minimize the A (you will find out later it was MUCH more than they said it was). They will try to manipulate you into NOT telling (and when you do expose, expect great wrath). But exposure is the best thing for you and for the demise of the A. God would want the truth to come out.

You are NOT crazy, you love your wife and are doing what you think is best (and what has been proven time and time again) and will work.

She will forgive you for this...later.

Nope, don't let the A die out like she says, make it hard for her to continue it.

She is an addict that is trying to bargain with you to allow her to keep her drug. She wants you both and is trying to figure out a way to do that. She can't imagine life without her drug right now because she has become dependent on him, he's become a habit.

Plan A is exposure, and showing your WS a better M.

Plan B is removing yourself from the chaos and letting the WS live only with the drug (and see how unfulfilling it is...)

Only move to Plan B when you have done a proper Plan A (so she'll have something to look back on), and are beginning to lose your love for her.

Until Plan B time though, sink yourself COMPLETELY in Plan A. You can't do both at the same time.

Yea, I kinda thought that this was an attemp to placate the situation and remove some of the "heat" now that the situation is really intense.

I feel like Plan A (from last Friday) is still the way to go, but I have to keep the pressure on that the relationship with OM must end. I like the mantra that a marriage is one man and one woman....there is no room for anyone else.

I'm unsure as to how much pressure to put on the "right now" concept. Seeing mimi's post from yesterday telling me to cool it and slow down, I'm not sure that I need to force the issue RIGHT NOW. But...I can continue the "unacceptable" talk w/o LB'ing (I hope).

Confession time from Georgia....I'm really beginning to have thoughts about how life would be without her and is there a future for me elsewhere? Is this normal emotions for someone in this situation, or does this indicate that I should at least BEGIN to start setting a date for Plan B?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this normal emotions for someone in this situation, or does this indicate that I should at least BEGIN to start setting a date for Plan B? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The former, GG, the former. You are, IMHO, nowhere near needing a Plan B, let alone setting some arbitrary date for implementing it.

Although I can't remember it ever being stated by everyone, your reaction is a normal response to the pain of betrayal. What you thought was "the way it was" has been proven to be less than, or not at all, what you thought it was. The "grass is greener" sort of thinking, the "I deserve better," starts in as the Taker begins to defend you.

It's normal. Fight it. Refuse it. You are not anywhere near the point of giving up on your marriage. "For better or for worse, in sickness and health....." The healthy and the good are easy to take, the rest take commitment and love.

God bless.

Yeah, you're right and I know it.

I just got back from lunch and there is voice mail from WW. I called her back and she's as pleasant as ever...asking about my day, etc.

Plan A is where it's at.

I've got to get back to the mimi inspired "cheat sheet" from Friday.

FROM G.G.:

Without recapping my whole story (which is available on another thread), my W, which is now a WW, has had a huge change in her personality in recent years.

She is deeply in menopause, lots of trouble with night sweats, hot flashes, etc. I know from her last OB/GYN visit that her estrogen is extremely low, and her dr. recommended she go on HRT. However, she refuses HRT or any other drugs.

I saw a female C recently who seemed to think that much of WW's actions may be attributed to her menopause. I'm not so sure I want to put all the eggs in that basket, but is there anyone out there who has experienced bizarre behavior of their W's which were directly related a hormonal imbalance?

FROM MIMI:

Go back to your PLAN A.

You know me. I've been through the big M. It is no excuse for your WW's behavior. Analyzing like this will not get you anywhere.If you find out it is due to the BIG M, then how that can that help you? The deal is that she is involved in an addictive A to cure her depression. Regardless of the cause of her depression, that's the problem.

Get on with your discussion with her and doing your PLAN A.

I can answer any question you have about the big M but that's not the direction where you need to place your energy.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm frustrated with you. I really feel for you and have "been there done that", trying to excuse it all, understand it all. It just gets us nowhere but back to the same point.

Remember to think of her like I do my teenage boys. I can be understanding of the reason why my son comes home at 3 AM but it's still not OK and he has to stop doing it. He gets us so caught up in trying to understand him that it gets off the bottom line of the need to follow the house rules.

Is she veering you off course, trying to get you to excuse her??? Yes, she probably does need to take the HRT but you can't make her. You are only able to work on yourself.

Maybe we have hit onto something we need to work into your PLAN. Your WW did mention the CONTROL issue. Focus on yourself and what you need to change in regards to your behavior!!!! Does she perceive you as trying to control her? HER BODY is her issue. How she treats you and what you are willing to tolerate is YOUR ISSUE.

[ November 03, 2004, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]

FROM G.G.:

Alright, mimi....I get the drift.

Here's what I ask of you. It is by now readily apparent to both of us (I think) that my situation is one that is eerily identical to where you have been. In the few days we've been communicating, I've come to highly respect your "opinion" because it is VERY obvious that you understand not only the situation, but my W (and me) as well.

There are others here (MB) that are offering excellent advice, but you are offering more than advice, you are offering "insight".

What I want from you is to know that you won't disappear right in the middle of this. I don't want to sound overly dependent on you, but I want to know that you are there to help me pick up the pieces when something I do (based on your advice) doesn't yield the results I expect.

I know this may sound like a terrible burden, and I have nothing to offer you in return except for my gratitude. (Okay, maybe someday an Applebee's GC for you and H to enjoy).

Is that a deal?

FROM MIMI:

It's a deal, Georgia.

I certainly see it as my way of giving back.

The folks on this forum stuck right with me during my trials. I literally would not have made it without them.

--------------------

MIMI -

Our conversation has been copied into this thread.

I'll update this thread with communication...I'll consider the other (BIG M thread) a dead issue based on your advice.

Have a good evening.

Mimi –

A few things from yesterdays’ conversation:

” Is she veering you off course, trying to get you to excuse her???”

No, she has never used this as an excuse. I’ve wondered how much of her behavior could be at least “influenced” by the Big M. When I saw the counselor recently who asked me about that, she seemed to think she had hit on a gold mine. BTW - I don’t plan to see that C any more. I don’t think she had any real concept of how to help.

“Maybe we have hit onto something we need to work into your PLAN. Your WW did mention the CONTROL issue. Focus on yourself and what you need to change in regards to your behavior!!!! Does she perceive you as trying to control her?”

I would be interested in hearing more of your idea here. WW does say, and I think she is convinced, that I am CONTROLLING. For the record, I know that my Dad is hugely controlling. He tries to control everyone around him, including us if we let him. WW tells me that I am getting just like him.

I don’t know how to address that issue because I don’t see myself as controlling. However, I surmise from some of your comments that you may feel this is a legitimate issue. Can you help me know how to address this as a part of my Plan?

An update from yesterday.

WW and I had a wonderful evening. Did you ever find that after a major LB (like the Georgia Tea Party on Tuesday night) that the next day is wonderful? I don’t know how to explain it.

I got home to a very loving and gracious wife. I got dressed and we went to church (Wednesday night dinner at church). We ate alone much of the time and she seemed to be really happy and enjoying my company. Some friends (our best friends) arrived later and we finished dinner with them. After her handbell practice, we all (4 of us) went to a local quiet restaurant and had dessert. Everyone seemed a bit punch drunk and we all laughed for about 2 hours. We stayed until the staff began to stare at us because they had long since closed. On the way home, WW said “I really needed that”.

We went to bed together (I gave her a foot rub) and I think (but I’m not sure) that she stayed in bed through the night. No mention at all of OM and no sign she had contacted him. FYI ....his school hours (I think) are 8:00 – 5:00 (which is 11:00 – 8:00 our time zone). Then he has to travel to and from, and study in the evening.

Tonight she has a 3 hour handbell practice to prepare for some upcoming Christmas concerts. I’m going to pick us up an early dinner on the way home and then go workout while she’s practicing. (Gym is at our church also).

We have to go to a nearby town on Saturday for some work to be done on our car. She casually said that she wondered if they have any nice antique shops (we like to furnish our house with antiques). So I suggested that we go to breakfast and spend the day in this quaint little town antique shopping. She seemed to like that idea.

Not to bore you....but seems to me all part of Plan A. Do you agree, and do you have more comments / suggestions?

Hi Georgia:

A lot of what makes our sitch's alike is that we are dealing with the same age and stage issues. Sounds like along with the BIG M is your WW's MLC. She wants to recapture her youth which is understandable. What she seems to be saying is that she fears that you are turning into your father. You see, if you are your father, that means she is HER MOTHER. She is not happy with the fact that she is aging. So anything about you that looks like your father, including being controlling is UNATTRACTIVE, EVEN DISGUSTING, to her right now.

You, like me, probably got caught up in being a parent. I thought my FWH thought that role was appealing. What he wanted was my return back to the woman he first fell in love with. I have returned to being her. I always was still here but changed my focus into being MOTHER/WIFE. He wanted the romance back. By the time I figured it all out, during my PLAN A, he was getting all those needs met by the OW. Again Steve Harley taught me this. This is not a MIMI THEORY. Steve instructed me to devise A PLAN to return back to the person that he first fell in love with. He said, IF HE FELL IN LOVE WITH YOU BEFORE, HE CAN FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU AGAIN.

What the OP does not have is the additional history we have. The key is to go back to the OLD STUFF and combine that with the STUFF that LEGITIMIZES us with our spouses. Your wife is saying that she enjoys the wining and dining and having fun with friends along with her church work.

Us women going through THE BIG M also have changes in our sexual needs. Is a foot rub all that she is wanting or more or less?? Remember, what used to turn her on?? What did you do to woo her in the past when you first fell in love???

WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T BE YOUR FATHER. BE A CASANOVA, TRYING TO GET A DATE WITH HER.

Also, you mignt need to do some investigative work regarding the OM. Don't ask her about him. This needs to be done undercover on your own.THis will allow you to build in other defensive strategies, if need be. I learned everything I could about the OW. He is an adversary, trying to destroy your life so, in my opinion, you need to know who you are dealing with. Do you need to find a way to read E-MAILS? Is he trying to figure out a way to get to the USA, etc.? For example, the OW, in my case, had a young daughter that she wanted my FWH to help her raise. I knew my FWH did not want to have to deal with another teenager so I played this up in conversation indirectly when I could. For example, "I'm so glad I'm finally finished with the preteen years." I wasn't sure if he knew that I knew about the daugher.

Just some thoughts......

<small>[ November 04, 2004, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

You are right about my W wanting to recapture her youth. She has told me that she feels like she is going through her teenage years right now. One comment was that as she went from living at home (w/parents) directly into marriage, she never got the freedom to be on her own. (I was away at college before we married). She tells me now that she misses never having that freedom.

On the father / mother issue, she definitely says loud and clear that I am turning into my father. Even though she was raised in a “good” family, she has never been close to her mother. Her mother once openly bragged than she was always able to get my W to do what she wanted (as a child) by shaming her into it. That hurt my W to hear her mother say that. Also, W has talked a lot lately about how absent her father was during her childhood. This is a big deal to her. He had a position that required him to be away from home a lot, and she says she doesn’t even remember him during much of her childhood.

A big question in my mind is ....how do I make “demands” such as NC, without appearing controlling? I think I can do it without LB’ing (most of the time, anyway). But she clearly sees this as trying to control her, which is a Catch-22 because it gets us right back where we started.

Regarding the idea of being the “man” (at 18?) that she fell in love with, that is the reason for my comments of October 29 -9:17 AM (PLEASE REFER BACK TO THAT POST). How have you retuned to being “her” (the woman he fell in love with – at whatever age that was)? I am not 18 any more, plus there is the issue of the “vices” that frankly, I think appealed to her as a young woman who had never been around someone like me (James Dean syndrome?). She still remembers the first time she ever saw me...leaving the HS parking lot in my Mustang, hair down to my shoulders, cigarette hanging out the window. She let me get in front of her and I gave her a little nod. She says “oh brother, what a jerk”...we were dating about a month later.

CAUTION: I’LL PUT THIS AS GENERICALLY AS I KNOW HOW.

On the sexual stuff, she enjoys things now that she used to not wish to do. However, she is having some sort of medical situation that is causing numbness in her extremities (toes, fingers) that is also causing numbness in...other areas. She is seeing a specialist who has yet to be able to diagnose. Possibilities are MS or Rheumatoid Arthritis (or something else). This is causing a bit of trouble, as you may expect. I try to watch for some sign of what she really wants, and last night I was hearing a lot of how tired she was....hence just a foot rub.

I know quite a bit about the OM as I have heard a good bit of the conversation between them (I don’t think they use e-mail). Yes, THEY are trying to figure out a way to get him here. As you may recall, I’m the “bad guy” because I have told WW, OM, OMW that I don’t think that is a good idea. I have been asked to help him get a job. (To paraphrase mimi: YUK!). OM is married (no children) but unhappily so. Says he wants to eventually divorce his wife. He is an unemployed engineer from Iran, recently granted Canadian citizenship. Currently living off of his W’s meager restaurant salary. I know he can talk forever without seemingly saying anything. However, she seems to hang onto every word.

Okay, how does that all fit into the Plan?

Hi Georgia:

You ARE THE MAN SHE FELL IN LOVE WITH! It doesn't matter that you are older. Look inside yourself and find that person. I, like you, thought that person no longer needed to exist. I got off on being SUPER MOM, SUPER WIFE!! Certainly, all of that continues to be important but there were other aspects of myself that I was allowing to die away. That's what made THE PLANS good for me personally.

Maybe using me as an example will help you. When my FWH and I starting dating 30 plus years ago, I gave him by undivided attention when he talked to me. He loves to talk. I have realized NOW, POST-A, that I stopped paying attention to him. I thought he didn't need my attention anymore and thought that he valued me giving my attention to the children. The OW, I am certain, gave him undivided attention. It was real with me when we fell in love. In their A, it was part of his fantasy world with her. However, do you see hear how he was trying to recreate what he had with me earlier? I can give numerous other examples. I used to like to listen to music and he would play music for me like a disc-jockey. He made that part of his world with the OW. Little did she know that he was trying to recreate his early years with me.

Now me during my PLAN A and now in my PLAN A for life----- I look at him straight into his eyes when he talks to me. I have to make myself do this after many years of pretending that I was listening---- We have developed a list of OUR SONGS that we play all the time, we have music available in the most frequented rooms of our house, including the bedroom. These are just a couple of examples.

I think you need to find a way to become James Dean again in a way that feels comfortable to you. There is nothing wrong or inappropriate about that!! It will take increasing your flexibility, freeness, getting more in touch with just plainly and simply HAVING FUN!


I think your WW is really scared about what is happening to her body. It sounds like she has every reason to be scared.

Her foggy brain wants you to think of asking for NC as being CONTROLLING. Don't let her get you confused about that. Asking for NC is your way of demonstrating your love for her. If she wants to call that controlling, fine. Will she call it controlling if you stop her from running out in from a freight train? PLAY YOUR JAMES DEAN ROLE WHEN YOUT TALK TO HER ABOUT IT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have concerns about the OM and his wife. They may be con artists. Also, I would do some research on the Iranian culture. Have you seen the CD, HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG or read that book? I know the primary male character in that film/book was Iranian and HIGHLY MACHO .
Is that like James Dean?

<small>[ November 04, 2004, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

She has told me that one of the things that attracted her to me was that her family did nothing but home / church. I was always on the go, always doing something. She found that exciting. However, now she says she feels like we have about “done it all”. We’ve traveled and seen just about everything...and she’s bored. So far this year we’ve been to Miami, Virginia, Washington (state and D.C.), and Albuquerque.

However, I still think she likes “adventure” and spontaneity. Tomorrow night I have asked her for a date (since my last post), to which she replied “You can have a date with me anytime”. I’m taking her to dinner then to a downtown “Ghost Walk” recently begun here. One of those things where you take a walking tour and hear ghost stories. She said that sounded like fun. I told her (taking some of your advice in jest) that afterwards we’d go the cemetery and deface some tombstones like a couple of teenagers. (I bet James Dean would do that).

For our anniversary several months ago I snuck her collection of 45’s out of the house and had them put on CD. Thought that would be a great, romantic idea until I heard what a 30 year old record sounds like on a CD. Not a very good thing at all.

I’ve kind of started down a path that you have suggested. Earlier this year, I told her that since we had only had family cars for so long...I’d like for her to have whatever kind of car she wants. We did a lot of looking with me keeping my mouth tightly shut so she would get what she wanted. We ended up with a Thunderbird which she dearly loves. I can assure you we are the epitome of a MLC couple driving around town in a convertible....but we both really like it. Both boys have ribbed us a lot about it. I tell them that we will be broke before we’re dead so they had better be saving their money. An interesting note....she told me at the time that OM got really mad when I bought her that car. She said he told her that I was bribing her with things he couldn’t afford. (Freudian, maybe? I dunno). Several weeks ago we were on our way home late at night and I told her I just wasn’t ready to go home yet and asked if she’d like to go for a ride in the country. She was driving (she usually does) and she headed out of town on a 2 lane road. It was slightly cool and misty and we had the top down. We ended up a LONG way from home at a Waffle House eating waffles at 2:00 AM. We got back home near sunrise. She has told lots of folks about that and it makes her smile. Again, our boys are convinced of our insanity. I will continue to seek to find ways to get that “adventuresome” spirit back from days gone by. I think she still craves that. (My hammock will have to wait a while longer).

I know she is worried about her health. I feel really guilty when I think of leaving her knowing the problems she may be yet to encounter. She even asked one time who would take care of her if I left.

I don’t think OM is a con artist, but I think their culture is central to a lot of what is happening. I think my W is intrigued by his stories of service in Iran and the different culture. I think he treats his W like dirt because she will put up with it more than any American wife would. I wonder how long my W would last if she and OM were to get together. I have not read the book (or seen the CD), I’ll see if I can find it. BTW - the guy is not macho at all, a bit of a worm, really. Seems to me his attribute is to be able to talk non-stop.

She has called me at work 2X today just to talk. Once when in route to school, once during a break in her schedule. Both times we talked for 10 – 15 minutes.

Your talking to her is key!

The drives in the country, the new car.... SOUNDS WONDERFUL!!!!

I thought you said you aren't that 18 year old anymore. Sounds like he is still there to me.

KEEP US POSTED!

I still have major concerns about the OM, though. He's a worm but also he sounds very cunning.

Thanks for hanging in there, Mimi…

I’m at home right now (8:20 PM Thursday) and I’ve been reviewing our posts to try to drill these concepts into my brain. WW is still at church practicing. I worked out and came home, I’ve got to go pick her up in a few minutes.

BTW - I rarely have internet access at home as WW keeps the computer password protected. She doesn’t know that I know this, but she and OM keep an open IM link where they can IM each other if they can steal a minute away. Trying to use the computer at home (this is being typed in Word on my laptop) normally just starts a fight. I’ve been typing some of these posts in Word and then copying onto the MB board all at once.

Some legit questions that I am still unsure of. Do you think that I should confront WW directly when she is talking to OM and demand that she stop at that instant? I assume that soon (maybe tonight) she will be up again in the middle of the night talking. What should I do? Should I get up and go ask her to come back to bed? FYI….When I’m tired is when I am most vulnerable to LB.

I can’t help notice that the last few days have been devoid of any knowing contact with OM. I don’t know if she is really limiting the contact she is having, is she is “sneaking” around and making contact, or anything else. I’ve wondered if they talk via cell in the morning when he’s on the way to school. (This would be before she leaves home). I’ve discretely checked her cell logs and I don’t see his incoming / outgoing number. So I don’t know what to think.

Also, just this week she’s shown a renewed interest in trying to get her old routine back under control. She’s been up early working on bills and stuff (hasn’t done that in ages), and telling me she’s having a morning devotion. Of course, she may be up early so he can call after I go to work.

Anyway, that’s the thoughts for right now. I may add more tomorrow AM. I’ll only be around part of the day tomorrow, probably invisible this weekend.

Mimi - If you are a woman who prays, and I suspect you are, please pray for us diligently. Right now, you’re offering me a lot of hope with your “been there, done that” story. Sometimes I fell like I’m wasting time and growing old with a woman who will never care about me again. You’re giving me a reason to believe otherwise.

Thanks so much….

Update....Friday 7:30 AM

WW got up at 2:45 this morning. She told me she was having a hot flash an couldn’t sleep. I was then awake and about 4:30 I went to see what was going on. I was surprised to find that she wasn’t at the computer where she normally is, but rather she was in one our guest rooms with the door closed. I opened the door and she was sitting in the floor talking on the phone. I asked if she would come back to bed and she said she wasn’t sleepy. I asked who she was talking to and she said OM. I left the room and went to take a shower. I was getting dressed and going to go on to work when she came in and said that since I was awake she would talk to me. She started to tell me all about his classes and school. I stopped her and told her that I wished she wouldn’t tell me about OM, that I love her and when she tells me about him it kills my love for her. She told me that I have a problem then and that I should be able to accept him as a friend.

Anyway....I don’t know if we need to rehash the whole thing. Suffice it to say there was no LB’ing, but it was not pleasant. She starts the whole thing again about him being a friend and he could be my friend too. I told her I didn’t want to be his friend and that a married woman shouldn’t be on the phone with another man in the middle of the night.

So back to my earlier question..Do you think I handled this correctly? Is this what I do when she’s sitting there on the phone with him?

Yes, that's exactly what you do, you "catch" her every time she talks to him. She DOES feel guilty, and is trying to convince you (thereby convincing herself) that it's innocent. Maybe you can kiss and hug her until she gets off the phone.

She is taking time and attention away from the M.

Have you exposed the A to anyone else? Friends? Family? CHurch members? She needs to hear from other people this is NOT OK.

I would work on the computer problem too...You have a computer in your home you are not ALLOWED to use? How fair is that? It is time you talk with her about opening up the computer for you both to use. There are people on here who would be happy to IM you too...

Oh, Georgia <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

First of all, now that you have brought up the subject, I believe God is all in this. Maybe HE is drawing me in to help you. I don't know. I can't begin to explain or understand HIS AWESOME POWER. My trust in the LORD brought me through my trials and I think it was key in our RECOVERY.

In my view, GOD brought my FWH and I together. I think that is true in all marriages. GOD is a strong believer in marriage and hates adultery according to the Scripture. Secondly, I considered my FWH as being under the influence of evil forces. I still consider the OW to be satanic. Everytime I see her I think of the Devil. I hope such talk does not make you uncomfortable. Thirdly, I say to you that I know I was guided by listening to the SPIRIT. In many hours, on many days, it was me and THE LORD working this out.

Sorry for this testimonial. However, I'm trying to give you the strength to do what you need to do. I would recommend that you get a pen and paper and write down what you need to say in a discussion with your WW. This discussion needs to occur when you are not fatigued and should be done coolly and respectfully. You might even get you a copy of LOVE MUST BE TOUGH. When I had such a discussion with my FWH, I quoted DOBSON almost directly. I had to be that focused in order to remain emotionless. That's the word, emotionless. That's what I am recommending for you.

The points it seems that you need to make are: All contact with the OM needs to cease. If contact does occur, it is not OK for it to occur in your house. You have every right to be "KING OF YOUR CASTLE". That is not CONTROLLING. That is legitimate. This is your house that you have provided for your wife and children and that you work hard every day to maintain. It is unacceptable for someone to invade into your kingdom. Therefore, I would recommend that you immediately gain access to your computer. Tell her that you want to use it. You have to be able to use it to get onto this forum when you might need to in the middle of the night. I found it helpful to log on during crises. Also, no talking to him on the cell phone in your house. BE FIRM AND NONEGOTIABLE ABOUT THESE THINGS.[/ Expect her to try to get you to LB by calling you controlling. I would make these issues non-negotiable. You tried to negotiate with her. She was deceitful and closed herself up in the bedroom.

Then, continue to PLAN A. Remember, PLAN A is not about accepting continuation of the A. If you continue to get fed up, feeling like you are losing her love for her, you may need to go to PLAN B to protect your love. It's not time for that yet but she seems to be coming really close to pushing your buttons. That's when you pray and stand fast in fignting against the evil forces that are trying to destroy your wife and your marriage.

We do have similar issues, Georgia. I learned that I was a [B]CONFLICT AVOIDER. Our loved ones know this about us and use it to their advantage. I hate to keep quoting Steve Harley, who helped me immensely in case he is reading here, but he encouraged me to learn to EMBRACE CONFLICT during MY PLAN. That has been an important, life-changing lesson for me. My change in that regard has helped everybody in my family. I am actually stronger and tougher than I ever thought that I was. Us conflict avoiders are fearful of anger so we don't openly express anger, hold it in and then blow up. It is more effective to find the middle ground and express our anger in a modulated, controlled fashion.

That's a lot said. Hang in there!!!!

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

As far as exposure, so far it is known to the oldest son and his wife and WW’s brother (who is a counselor in another state). I think she may be talking to him from time to time, I’m not sure.

SHMI. What are you suggesting about having other people IM me?

Mimi - Nothing to be sorry for about the testimony, actually, I now know for sure we’re on the same playing field. Thanks, that makes me feel even better. For the last 2 mornings I have thanked God for you during my quiet time and I think (and hope) that this is all part of His plan as well.

You’ve pegged me right (again) when you say I am a conflict avoider. I’ve given WW a lot more turf than I ever should have because of that, and counselor #1 said that I may have contributed to the problem by allowing it to continue. I’ve recently read one of Gary Smalley’s books (I forget the title) regarding the need for conflict and the healthy resolution thereof. I haven’t conquered this area, but I’m beginning to see the light.

I have read LMBT and know exactly the part you are talking about. I am now on a path to remain resolute and firm, but I must at all cost avoid LB. This is not easy. I’m finding (and WW has pointed out) that my angry outbursts are getting more intense. Frankly, and very unfortunately, there may come a time when I must Plan B for the following reasons:
1. I get too angry and scare myself
2. I am getting to the point that I think of a peaceful life w/o WW (I already do this sometimes)
3. She continues down the path of destructive behavior oblivious to what she is doing.

I would really like from now through the end of the year to be “Stellar Plan A”. I’d like to have in her mind nothing but fond memories of the holidays, and I (selfishly) don’t wish to spend Christmas alone.

Thanks again for your insight....I’m trying my best to follow it and stay focused on Plan A.

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

My suggestion about having other people IM you is...

You can use this as an argument for wanting to use the computer more often.

And, you can find a same sex partner on this site that could act as an instant support for you.

Or, just tell your wife you want to have access to the computer to check your email and do some searches.

You both sound active in your church, have you talked with your pastor yet? Would he be willing to sit down with you both and talk?

Have you talked with your wife about this being an A? An EA? She's not convinced, and it is not really your job to convince her. Just to let her know that you think it is inappropriate and it is both you and seh that make the rules in the M, and she has decided to make her own rules.

You could also put the shoe on the other foot and ask her what she would feel liek if you had this kind of R with a woman "friend".

I asked my H this at one time when he wanted to maintain a "friendship" with a woman after d-day.

I walked through a scenario very slowly with him.

What if...I met a friend in one of my classes, I told you about him, I'd mention him every time I came home from class, we met a few times to study in a group, I would call him up to ask questions. Our phone conversations grew longer. Our class ended but we maintained a friendship and we would talk on the phone and IM on the computer...blah, blah, blah.

Give her an example that uses some of the same things she is doing. It MAY open her eyes, but doubtful. But you can try.

Another idea some BS have used is to give the IMPRESSION they are developing a social life without the WS...for instance, going out to dinner in your finest suit and saying you are going to dinner, be back later, no details, do NOT lie, but do not give many facts.

This always seemed underhanded to me, but sometimes it helps the other person see that you can have a life without them.

Pray right now.