Georgia:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told her that I take one day at a time and right now I am focusing on how our M can be better and how I can meet her needs.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was SUPER!!!! This statement really captures what you are doing now. It is your mission statement whether she can grasp it now or not.Also, Super Job on not getting sucked into LBing and sticking to your guns about the NC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had asked her not to call other men from my home, I found that rude and disrespectful </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I would recommend now is for you to KISS-KEEP IT SIMPLE! Here I am again offering you a tactic recommended to me in coaching from Steve Harley. No long discussions just repeat over and over what you stated above. By the way, WW...

"I do not want you to talk to other men in my home. I find that to be rude and disrespectful".

I would remind her of this today, softly and tenderly. State this over and over again when it seems appropriate especially before bedtime. Imply that you will be checking to insure that this does not happen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She told me that OM makes her happy and feel good. I told her maybe she should start planning how she can live there as she has told me that is where her true happiness lies. She said that I wasn’t listening, she doesn’t want to go there, she just wants to be able to talk to him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOW! Isn't this a clear statement of her use of the OM as a drug/antidepressant? What foggy thinking!! She just wants to enjoy him, indulge in him for her own narcissistic pleasure without regard to the consequences of her behavior on other people.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then I told her that actually she can be a very selfish person (which she has admitted) and that when she doesn’t get her way, she pouts (which she does). I think this is a part of that history re-write you and I were discussing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True. A person involved in an A is narcissistic/selfish. However, she is not really ready to hear this. You're right,she almost sucked you in here. She wants you to criticize in order to justify the A. Remember, she is addicted, not logical and sane until there is NC. She is not ready for any meanignful R talk yet. Any of it that she seems to be engaging in with you probably has an underlying agenda. I know it's hard to accept and to believe this. It's just the nature of all of this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, does this count as the NC discussion? It wasn't scripted, but I'm not sure what I would add if I did it again. It is still generic, no line in the sand. I’m still getting the response that I expected, which is “no way </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would say that you are now able to engage in an ONGOING NO CONTACT DISCUSSION. You've opened the door for this. You've established your position. Stick with it but KEEP IT SIMPLE---FOR NOW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I “intrude” again the next time she’s holed up talking to OM in the middle of the night?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES!!! You were kidding about "intruding", right? She has no rights to privacy. There is supposed to be no secrets between husband and wife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She told me that I needed to think ahead and ask if I was considering life without her, finding someone else, and beginning over... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This makes me think that she expects that there will be consequences for her behavior. In her adolescent frame of mind, she is hoping that you will not have consequences and that you will give her permission to act out and play out her fantasies OR you will become controlling and lay down the law so that she can justify her A. She is the one that is trying to keep you in a parental role and she is acting like a child. The main thing is she wants to continue what she's doing so that she can get her drug fix.

I would keep her guessing. You don't know what your plans are. The ball is really in her court. What you do know today is, as indicated above..no talking to the OM in your house, etc....

I have a different take on the parenting front. I think that your WW needs more romancing and undivided attention from you. I would focus on that this weekend such as drives in the country, etc.

Hang in there!!!!

YEs!! I agree with Mimi wholeheartedly. This should be an aongoing NC conversation. You have opened the discussion and you can refer back, like "As I said before..."

When she asked you if you were looking to move on without her, she is feeling you out for how long you would put up with this...
Answer, I want to work on our M, but I cannot put up with OM in our lives forever and there will be a time when I will want to remove myself, and you from my life...that opens the door to preparation for Plan B.

Yes, continue to Plan A, but think about Plan B...please, -please, please, move to Plan B before you lose ALL love for her. I've seen the mistake too many times people give TOO much time in Plan A and have nothing left, then move on to Plan D...

What is your timing like? How long can YOU stay in Plan A?

StillHere --

It is so nice to hear from you, I didn't know were still following the travails of the Georgia Guy....Thanks for commenting, means much to me as I respect your opinion.

(I at one time thought you and Mimi may be one and the same as your advice is so similar).

I'm trying to take Mimi's advice in focusing wholly on Plan A. Yes, there will come a time when I may have to move on for the reasons delineated in one of my earlier posts (as well as your comments). I think that if I start thinking about Plan B right now, I'll (maybe subconsciously) subvert my Plan A. However, I don't want to consider Plan B before the end of the year.

Mimi - Response to your post coming separtely (already prepared in Word - I hate this little box thing).

Okay, Mimi, this is a new part of my plan. I will use that mantra when appropriate, and VERY SIMPLY without long discussion (BTW – Thanks for leaving out the second “S” of the acronym...we can consider it implied).

I read you loud and clear on the areas that she is not ready to hear. I’m so easily persuaded to join into an “argument” of logic, but you’re right...we’re definitely not there.

The “addiction” parallel seems so true, I’m learning to stick with it.
“Any of it that she seems to be engaging in with you probably has an underlying agenda. I know it's hard to accept and to believe this. It's just the nature of all of this.”

Hum...I’ll have to be really careful here. I understand now that LB’ing and/or CONTROLLING make me repulsive and help her “justify” the EA.

“You were kidding about "intruding", right? She has no rights to privacy. There is supposed to be no secrets between husband and wife.”

Only halfway kidding, but thanks for setting me straight. BTW – I’ve gotten to where I just walk by the computer and reboot it whenever I want to. No comments from WW about that yet. Secrets in my home are quickly going out of vogue with me.

Which brings up a question. When I use the term “my home”, WW is hitting me with this is her home too, if it wasn’t for her I wouldn’t be where I am, she gave up her career to have “MY” children, etc. (I liked the “MY” children comment. Sounded like I raped her. I wonder if the boys know their Mom considers them “MY” children. Okay, Georgia blowing off steam again.). But the legitimate question for you is....should I avoid the use of the term “my home”. I explained to her that it is “my home” in the same sense that it is “her home”, too. However, she launched into how I don’t see her as contributing to the household budget, etc. I told her that I consider everything we’ve accomplished to be because we’ve been partners and worked together. Not to make too much of this, but the “my home” things seems to strike a raw nerve with her.

Georgia

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> She's just grasping at straws, if you know what I mean.

OK, give her this one. Tell her "You've raised a a good point....no talking to OM in OUR HOME.

PLRASE CHECK AGAIN SOON!!!!!!!!!!

HELP!!!!!!!!

MIMI -

I NEED YOU NOW...ARE YOU THERE?

WW IS ASKING ME TO LEAVE.

GEORGIA

Georgia:

I'm leaving in about 15 minutes and then won't be checking back again until a couple of hours.

Trust Your Gut.

Mimi -

A call from WW on her way home. She says she can't live this way anymore. She lives in fear that I will find out that she is calling "her friend". She realizes that she wouldn't put up with it if I did it, but I can either accept it or leave.

I told her that my decision was to work on our M, but the NC "request" remains and is not negotiable.

Therefore, she is asking me to leave.

Georgia

She also says she realizes that what I am trying it "tough love", but that tough love can backfire.
And, she said that sooner or later, her "friend" is going to move here and I need to get used to the idea.

Nope. You are not going anywhere!!

Let's take a deep breath.

Why is she talking to you in the car? You will collect yourself and calmly maintain your position. I think she is wanting you to backdown. Tell her that you are not planning to leave but she is welcome to do what she wants. Ask her what HER PLAN is?

Why should YOU LEAVE? She is the one committing adultery? The ball is in her court. The decision is hers. She has to do all the work, not you.

Whew......okay, deep breath.

Yea, the truth is, Mimi. I'm really ready to draw the line the sand. I'm not going to leave the house that I have tried to make a home so WW can sit there and talk to OM all night long. She knows she needs me, but there is going to have to be some boundaries respecteed in this marriage.

I'm ready to go home and face this. I'm not leaving, and she's not going to keep doing this. She may need to leave, but it's going to have to be her that does it.

Please pray for us tonight, it's going to be rough.

Georgia

She is trying to get you to fight with her. I will repeat the mantra to her simply and go out somewhere to get away from her.

Tell her that you are not leaving. You will not accept her communications with the OM. Period.

She is getting desperate. You have changed GEORGIA. You have gained her respect.

STAND FIRM. DO NOT BACKDOWN!!!!

Remember. This is the same approach you would use if one of your sons was wanting to play in the middle of a highway. The only difference is that she can make an adult choice to act differently. Otherwise, she will need to suffer the consequences of ther actions, meaning to go to Canada to live with him. Legally, if she leaves you, I don't think you have to support her. If you leave, she can ask for your support which she will share with the OM. You have to protect yourself first from her craziness at this time.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Thanks, Mimi...

You're a true friend, maybe you're "providential".

I'm staying at work a little late trying to collect my thoughts before going home.

It seems to me that tonight may be the watershed in the whole sordid mess. I think I do see it for what it really is, but thanks to the help of various folks on this site (with all kudos to MIMI), I can say that I've done the best that could possibly be done. In WW's call a little while ago, she thanked me for not getting angry with her last night. That is a direct result of folks input from this site. It may be short..but the potential last few days of my Plan A were working....I can go to Plan B if need be without regrets (for the most part).

I think my CONFLICT AVOIDER is now ready to become a BOUNDARY MAKER.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A call from WW on her way home. She says she can't live this way anymore. She lives in fear that I will find out that she is calling "her friend". She realizes that she wouldn't put up with it if I did it, but I can either accept it or leave.

I told her that my decision was to work on our M, but the NC "request" remains and is not negotiable.

Therefore, she is asking me to leave.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Georgia Guy - I've been following your progress and staying out of commenting because you seem to be getting along very well with Mimi's advice.

But this latest post has prompted me to "butt in," so let apologize in advance if you don't like what I might say.

First, under NO circumstances do YOU leave the house. If she wants out, SHE leaves. Your leaving could easily be called "abandonment," among other things. But aside from that, it is HER affair not yours. You are simply "Sticking Up" for what is mandatory in ANY marriage....exclusivity of spouse and no one else involved in your marriage.

Your wife is simply throwing at you all the typical excuses that WS's involved in an affair use.

I feel like I need to reiterate something. While you have doing well with the conversations, the non-confrontational discussion about No Contact, etc., you seem to be forgetting something that is vital. Virtually everything you say or do will NOT register with your wife as long as she is involved in an affair.

Your objective needs to be reduced to it's simplest, not the least painful, form. The affair MUST end before any rebuilding can be done. Your Plan A, while seemingly effective at times, is scuttled every time she has contact with the OM. You already KNOW that the OM's wife is NOT comfortable with her husband's and your wife's relationship and you were lied to about that also.

So that brings us to the "hard part." Still not seeing much emphasis on being obedient to God here. A lot of "pity party" excuses by your wife ala "always doing for others," etc. The hard part is that you are going to have to get into risking your marriage through "Tough Love."

You cannot control your wife, but you can set the conditions that YOU are willing to live with. The one condition that must be in place for you to have a marriage and recover your marriage is No Contact with the OM for the rest of your wife's life.

Understand that this objective may not be easy to attain or to attain quickly, but a concerted effort on your wife's part is the minimum that is needed. Since it is unlikely, from what I've read so far, that she will make that choice under you current circumstances, then a separation may be in order. You need to think about this and pray about this. There is only room in a marriage for husband, wife, and God. Any more than that and you violate the "zoning laws" and "maximum capacity" of a marriage.

So, if she is at the point of telling you that YOU have to leave, it is probably time to tell her (yes, this an ultimatum and should not be given lightly or without firm resolve on your part) that SHE needs to leave. Tell her that you love her and will love her until you die, but that you will not "share her" with another man. That is adultery and is NOT allowed and is destructive to everyone involved. You cannot be a party to her self destruction and to the pain and suffering that she is bringing to all who love her and are around her, to say nothing of the pain in family of the OM.

I remember the day when I told my wife to pack up and leave. The bottom of the deepest, darkest hellhole, could not come close to describing how hard it was. But I could not, and would not, allow her to continue in that sin with my "tacit approval" by not standing for God's clear commands and my own need for a wife who is "mine alone."

This is a "crisis point." You need to be ready to "live with" the consequences should you issue an ultimatum. She may not choose the way you hope she will. It's scary and dark, so if you do choose that path, be sure to post here often for the much needed support you will need to "weather" the emotional storm.

God bless.

I agree - tell her that she is the one committing adultry, and she gets to leave if she doesn't want you around.

When she says it's not adultry (like she always does) then say something like "you already said his friendship was more important than our marriage, if that's not adultry, I don't know what is."

Like Mimi said, she will try to get you to fight, may even set you up. Don't go there. Just be calm, realizing what is about to happen.

She may call you names, falsly accuse you, hit you, spit on you - I have seen the works, but you need to be calm, state your position, and do your evening routine.

SS

FOREVER and STILL SEEKING:

It's wonderful that you are stepping in to help, GEORGIA. He needs all of the help that he can get.

Stick with him!!!!!!

FOREVER, that was a beautiful, GOD-INSPIRED POST!!!!

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

FH, SH, & MIMI-

I have been home and am now at our church where I've come for a workout. I've logged in here and your words to me mean more than any of you can ever possibly know.

I went home and WW met me with cheeriness and an offer to fix me a spaghetti (sic?) dinner. She knows I love that, and she hasn't fixed dinner in at least 2 weeks.

I told her that I appreciated that, but I felt like we needed an evening apart from each other. I told her I had considered our conversation and that what she needs to know is:
1. This is my home and I'm not leaving it. I am here to work on our marriage.
2. Contact with another man by you is not acceptable in our home, and contact of another woman by me is not acceptable in our home.

She tried really, really hard to fight. Tears, name calling, telling me how she is afraid of me...asking what kind of man would throw his wife out. Asked how she would ever afford to live on her income?

I told her there was only 2 things we needed to talk about...(see above).

I told her I wasn't leaving, but we needed a night away or we would argue. She said she wasn't arguing, but she wanted to discuss it and fix me dinner. I told her that was nothing else to discuss and thanks for the offer, but not tonight.

She asked wryly: "What time may I expect you home?" I said, before bed time.

Please stay with me....I'll be back.

PRAY HARD.

Geogia