I got your message, star*fish...(newest inductee into the Georgia Hall of Trusted Souls).

Good night to all......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has asked how I am going to stop her from calling OM. Her words: "If you get up tonight and I'm on the phone, are you going to kill me". I said NO. However, the logistically question remains...how do I stop her?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG - You don't "stop her." You can't "stop her."

That choice is hers to make. What you do is what you have been doing, making it quite clear that her EA is unacceptable and WILL have a negative impact on the marriage. If SHE chooses to continue, then she is choose for a negative impact on the marriage. If SHE chooses to end it and follow God and be your wife exclusively, forsaking all others, then she can have a positive impact on the marriage. Either way, you will continue to love her. The only question unanswered at this time is with her as your wife or not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She brought up that maybe it is time to separate to keep us from killing each other. (I think she has a new fixation). Do you, Mimi, think it time for me to discuss openly with her the idea of a separation?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Two things. One, it's not yet time to talk about separation unless she starts going down the road of wanting you to leave...and is serious about it rather than just an emotional reaction.
Two, this talk about "killing each other" is typical "fogspeak" of a WS caught up in an affair. The affair is "destablizing" now and no longer able to be continued in "secret." So she's grasping at any straw that will "justify" her continuining in an adulterous relationship. She is beginning to realize (even if she won't admit it to herself yet) that she is going to have to do something that will bring her pain no matter what her choice is....she is going to have to CHOOSE one or the other of you, but she can't have both. The cakewalker is still trying to get all of her needs met by both of you. But you will no longer "turn a blind eye" to what she is doing and you are simply expecting what was vowed at your weddding before God and Man.

I still think her "problem" is a "God problem." She is still running from God and refusing to "obey God's commands in humble submission."

So I'm curious about her current status with God. What excuses are being used to choose to disobey God? What is keeping her from attending church regularly? No daily devotions?

GG, she is running from both God and you. Continue to stand, lovingly, for God's commands and as Christ's stand-in in your marriage. As Christ denied Satan's temptations and stood for simple obedience to God's commands, you can help your wife by discussing that simple command.

The "pity party" approach of "I'm always doing things for others" is just another excuse for sin. God makes it quite simple in many areas and this is one of them....we ARE His, bought and paid for by Jesus Christ and He has the RIGHT to command us, and we simply obey whether or not we "feel like it."

God bless.

Good Morning, All –

I got home last night to a WW busily vacuuming the house. This is unusual because she normally doesn’t vacuum, I do. She says it hurts her hands, but she stopped housecleaning long before the pain in her hands started. When I came in, she just glared at me.

I went to the bedroom and watched TV for a little while, then turned out the lights. Shortly thereafter, she came in and expressed surprise that I was in bed. As I had told her a couple of days ago that I would vacuum on Thursday night, she said “I see that you’re a man of your word”, then turned and stormed out of the room. This morning I noticed that the garbage had been taken out (I normally do that, too), and some of the houseplants had been repotted (I don’t know what that’s all about). She had a busy evening.

I can hear the vacuum banging against furniture, walls, whatever...I hope there is no permanent damage. Plus....she turned the stereo on really loud (which she never does). I think the idea was to keep me from getting sleep.

However, I quickly went to sleep and slept like a log until about 4:45 AM. I woke up and she wasn’t in bed, and her pillow was gone. She wasn’t on the phone, wasn’t at the computer. I assumed that she moved to one of the guest rooms, so I just went back to bed.

I got up shortly later and went back to the gym (if nothing else, Georgia will get buff out of this ordeal!). On to work, and I haven’t seen or heard from her.

So...the saga continues today. I’m not quite sure how to respond to her other than continuing the mantra of the NC discussion whenever appropriate. Should I continue “romancing” her and meeting her EN’s? If so, how?

I am convinced that I must stay the course that I am on, but all other advice is greatly appreciated.

I went back through the posts from last night and re-read from star*fish, mimi, FH...and all others. It helps to keep me focused to read and re-read.

FH - To answer your question, my WW does still attend church mutliple times per week. She tells me that she is trying to restart her morning devotion, which had fallen by the wayside. Yes, it is a sin problem we are dealing with.

Georgia

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

WAY TO GO, GEORGIA!!!!

You are doing great, standing strong, being the man/husband that God has mandated you to be!!!! I am so thankful that the MB Veterans also came out to help you. We all will help you through this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The affair is "destablizing" now and no longer able to be continued in "secret." So she's grasping at any straw that will "justify" her continuining in an adulterous relationship. She is beginning to realize (even if she won't admit it to herself yet) that she is going to have to do something that will bring her pain no matter what her choice is....she is going to have to CHOOSE one or the other of you, but she can't have both. The cakewalker is still trying to get all of her needs met by both of you. But you will no longer "turn a blind eye" to what she is doing and you are simply expecting what was vowed at your weddding before God and Man.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this captures where things are for you right now. "You will no longer turn a blind eye".
This is when my FWH really tried to pick fights with me and the children. Given that you are into the MB system, you know not to fall for it. She is really trying to provoke you and get you riled. STAY COOL, CALM AND COLLECTED on the exterior although I know you are in turmoil on the inside.

Continue with your own agenda-YOUR PLAN A. Really step it up now!!! If, GOD FORBID, you have to go into PLAN B, you want her to remember this time. She will not necessarily let on that you are being EFFECTIVE (for want of a better word). View yourself as working towards being THE BEST HUSBAND THAT YOU CAN BE. In the long run, this will help you personally. You will feel a lot better about yourself.

I'm recalling my FWH's stone face, not wanting to give me any eye contact, as he enjoyed, literally smacked his mouth while eating, one of the best meals that he had ever eaten. One of his primary ENs is DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY.

Be creative in the PLAN A. You are in the driver's seat!!! She is running scared as FOREVER has stated, she's DESTABILIZED....

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Wow, you're really getting great advice! GG, not lovebusting is far more important than filling her needs right now, mainly because she won't be very receptive. Fogged spouses seem to reject romance for the most part....but there will be opportunities to fill other needs that will arise. Household stuff is a good area. Conversation is a huge need for you wife...but don't talk about the relationship...share other things with her or show interest in what she's doing. Do touch her...but incidentally, not sexually unless you feel comfortable about that. For instance, brush the hair from her forehead, touch her shoulder when you speak to her. Tenderness will be better than romance at this point I think. Make it clear that while you truly love her, you have no intention of being miserable over her poor choices and that you will continue to live your life happily no matter how loud the vacuum/music is....BTW....going to sleep while she was trying to manipulate you with dramatics was a good choice.

You're doing good chere. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mimi , star*fish...

Such kind and encouraging words, thanks. Yes, star*fish, I agree, I am getting good advice here, much of it from you (remmeber, you're a Hall member now too). .

BTW - I had lunch with #1 S yesterday and he asked how Mom was doing. I told him (in generic terms) about the support I was getting from MB and how much it had meant to me. I told him about the 2 topics (see previous posts) and he said that this sounded like all any H could do. When she blew up last night, I called him and told him that his M wasn't accepting the NC very well and she may be calling him. If so, just listen calmly but no arguing with her. He told me he loved me and to hang in there, I was doing the right thing.....Man, did that mean a lot to me. WW has a couple of times called him to tell him about how miserable his Dad has made her...etc. S has just listened, but later told me how angry it made him to hear his M say such things. Fortunately, I'm severely blessed with a Godly son who has wisdom way beyond his years.

It is going to be walking a thin line, this "Plan A" thing with her attitude right now. My natural inclination is to just steer clear (work in yard, etc.). But Mimi is saying be creative in Plan A.

Would anyone venture to speculate on how an "ideal" Plan A weekend would look if you, personally, could be the choreographer?

I like the STAR*FISH PLAN A ideas in the most recent post.

Does any of my trusted advisors think it wise to call OMW (or maybe even OM) and tell them that call to / from OUR home is not longer acceptable to H?

Georgia:

It might be time to reconsider and call out for help on this site. That is how I got the most feedback and help here. You go to your original post and click on the pen and paper icon to edit the Title of your Reply. Make it something like URGENT HELP NEEDED or whatever you feel comfortable with to call out the troops in this time of battle for you. I wouldn't necessarily start a completely new string.

I definitely would not call the OM. Lots of folks here would probably suggest that you contact the OMW. I don't have experience in that area as my OP was single. However, I do think that any contact with him would not be a good idea--a definite LB which they will use against you to justify the A.

I defin

Hey GG, I agree with Mimi. I would not contact the OM because it will only put them on the defensive. But I don't see any harm in contacting the OMW and making her your ally. Perhaps your steps could embolden her to make some moves on her end.

Georgia:

You are blessed that Melody has signed in to help you. She was one of MY SAVIOURS!!!!! Listen to her!!!!

Yes, I agree with the comments about Melody...I've read a lot of her stuff and she's definitely got my respect.

Seems I'm getting the Crème de la’ crème of the MB lining up behind me.

I am about to send out the big flare about the need for HELP now that we are in the NC discussion stage.

All comments from anyone already here are solicited.

I'm not so sure about OMW though...she's pretty docile (demure in words of star*fish) being Iranian and I'm not sure how much pressure she would exert.

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

For anyone new to my sitch, you can read a lot about it here.

Wife is deeply involved in EA.

I need all advice on how to proceed from here now that we've had the NC discussion.

Georgia

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

GG:

You did fabulously! ESPECIALLY by not obsessing about what she was doing this morning, but getting your day started instead. PERFECT!

You have the big guns working with you now. If it were me, I'd do fixit jobs around the house all weekend, being pleasant with your W whenever you interact. Keep it superficial, but use the time 2 demonstrate 2 her what YOU see your life looking like - with her or without. At this stage, she won't be receptive 2 your Plan A efforts 2 meet her ENs, so use this time in plan A 2 impress yourself with what kind of man you are! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Great convo with your S, 2!

oh, and I just have 2 giggle a bit... ...no, a LOT, when I red that part about the vacuum cleaner bouncing off the walls. BTDT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

I'm going to disagree just a tad here....I think that IF the OM is unaware that you are uncomfortable about his contact (have you told him before that you'd like contact to end?)...that having a converstation with him that is about respectful confrontation ie: "Please respect my request not to contact my wife anymore. It is interfering with our marriage and that's not okay with me." I think an email would be better....and seem less threatening, plus...it will be in writing so no one can come back and say you said things you didn't. Just to keep it on the up and up...you could copy your wife. Confrontation is an intergral part of Plan A...and I know Penny is all for contacting the OP as long as it is done without disrespect.

Georgia:

I feel that the OMW's has every right to know about what's going on even if she is not going to be all that helpful.

I continue to be unsure about the usefulness of talking to the OM. Just like your wife, he is involved in an A. He is in the fog as well. All he wants is for the A to continue regardless of what you are wanting. I think it would be a great LB while you are still in PLAN A, just more FUEL FOR THEIR FIRE. That's what they are looking for right now. He is your adversary and whatever he can use against you, he will. Don't forget that we are in the presence of evil forces!!

Thanks for chiming in on this....

My gut feeling is that OM should know, but maybe letting him know through OMW is the best route. I know that she will make him aware (if he's not already), and it'll have the extra advantage of stirring the pot a little. I don't want to risk the wrath of the star*fish again, so can I get buy-in from star*fish on that idea?

I know that WW is capable of NC because she has certainly put it into place for me !! No phone call before school, during lunch, etc. Normally we've had a good 1/2 hour of conversation by now. I'm assuming that we all agree that I SHOULD NOT call her, right?

I really like 2long's plan for the weekend. It's a rainy day in Georgia, and spending time in the garage refinishing an antique sounds blissful to me. Again, are we all in agreement with 2long's suggestion?

Be here a couple of more hours...I'd like to hear from you all before the weekend dawns...

Georgia

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

GG,

Ah shucks...what wrath?? LOL I have no problem with you talking to OMW...except for a few concerns. 1)I know lots of middle eastern women and many are somewhat shy and have cultural upbringing that that doesn't encourage confrontation with their spouses. 2) I think verbal communication...especially when it needs to go through another person...is easier to be misunderstood.

Even so....I see no problem with you calling OMW as long as you do it respectfully....which I have zero doubt you will.

Penny however, over at symc....often uses a letter to OP as part of the "confrontation" part of Plan A especially when there is little hope of getting help from the other BS OR the OP is single. So really....it's your call.

GG:

Yeah! I'm in agreement with 2long's suggestion! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Seriously, though. If you're in2 refinishing antiques, then by all means DO THAT this weekend instead of banging your head against R stuff (unless it's not a head-banging experience, but I suspect it would be at this point).

I like the suggestion of confronting the OM. I did that, per Penny's recommendation, back in March, just an hour or so before my W and S visited his workplace on a field trip! It had *nearly all* of the recommended wording from Penny's website, but with a 2ple of specifics thrown in about our own sitch. One of those said "I have seen recent emails between the 2 of you that are of an inappropriate na2re". As far as I can tell, THAT statement got me in2 the most trouble. OM told my W, some months after that, that it gave him "hope" because he read it 2 mean that there was still "something going on" between him and my W, because of the "recent" remark. I meant in the last several months, not at that time (though I did know they were in email contact, I didn't see the most recent stuff). If I had it 2 do over again, I'd leave that kind of wording out entirely. The whole "hope" thing was absolutely laughable, and I told my W so, though.

But the point is that you do want 2 confront, but without giving any "handles" 2 the OM that he might interpret as oppor2nities 2 continue. Telling the OMW 2 deal with it leaves you with much less certainty of how the message is presented, so I wouldn't do it that way. Send the email.

I'd also touch base with the OMW 2 your heart's content (without being obnoxious, of course). There's no substi2te for being well informed about what's going on in the "enemy's" camp.

-ol' 2long

It's your call on this one, Georgia. I guess it can be confusing.

I had counseling with Steve Harley who sticks, of course, to the MB Principles. He told me not to contact the OW for the reasons I have cited to you. You know how I am die-hard MB person.

Of course, it was the OW (not OM) in my case and she was looney. However, in my opinion, the OP as well as the WS are in a fog and addicted while in the A. Their goal is to continue with the addiction. Think of him as the drug dealer. Whatever you do, your main goal is to remove his ability to deal the drug. Also,think about the effect interaction with him on your PLAN A with your wife. I've not read where the Harleys suggest this form of confrontation. I may have this wrong.

Georgia, you know I identify with your NEED TO PLEASE and to AVOID CONFLICT. You don't need to transfer that style to this website. TRUST YOUR OWN GUT instinct in this first. You know your WW and the OM better than we will. Do what you think is best given all the information that you are being provided.

Although your WW might not be game for R stuff, is their any other part of your PLAN A that you might be able to work on? What were her PRIMARY ENs again?

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>