Thanks, I'll see what she says. I am really anxious to get this started.

I must say that I am at a low point right now as far as discouragement. No panic...just discouraged.

I'm having a hard time seeing where this is going to EVER work. Probably just the right time to go to SH route.

Georgia

How well I can relate to wanting it all to magically go away. I've learned to accept that the important things in life-----

TIME AND PATIENCE!

When you have done all that you can do, all you can do is PUSH!! P ray U ntil S omething H appens.

GG,
I’ve been quietly following the saga of your journey through this timeless maze of insanity and I must say that I greatly admire both your patience and tenacity. Your WW is indeed a trial. In fact, there are times that I find it hard to believe that any adult with an IQ above that of a clinical idiot could be making such childish an inane assertions and expect to be taken seriously.

Having gone through this myself, I still marvel at how unreal this kind of experience can be. In fact, if a person never having had to live through this were to wonder in to this site and read this account, I’m quite sure that they would think that this was an example of how banal and mundane bad fiction can be. Yet, here we all are! This is what our lives have become!

By way of introduction, my sad experience took place a few years ago and I believe my marriage was saved through consultation with the Harley’s. I won’t tell you which, having my own reasons for wishing to remain anonymous but I will say this. If using the MB method is your choice of therapy, then there is simply no other way to go accept directly to the source. So speaking to the original Dr. Harley is probably the best decision you’ve made since this whole sordid mess began.

My advice would be that you put yourself in his hands and let him guide you through whatever steps he feels will be required to achieve success. I would just warn you however, that if you want this to work, you are going to give to be totally honest and totally objective about everything. You can’t hide anything or hold anything back.

As for your WW, I wouldn’t worry about her knowing or not knowing about you’re intent to consult with Harley. In fact, I wouldn’t worry at all, at this point about anything you intend to say as long as you say it with love and respect i.e. the MB way. Remember, Plan A is not about sitting back and showing approval for the wayward one’s outrageous and inappropriate behavior. In fact, you are expected to vocalize your disappointment and disapproval of all such behavior. In your wife’s case, doing so seems to be the very least you need to do. In fact, the one thing that you might not have done effectively enough is to expose the affair. Does the wife of the OM know what’s been going on? Do your adult children? And the people at your church, those people who your WW feels so close too. Do they know what’s happening in your life?

Sorry GG, but trying to fight this thing with out showing it to be the public disgrace it is, is a little bit like wrestling Jell-O. You can’t get a grip on it. As long as it’s a secret in will remain romantic. Only when exposed to the bright light of public scrutiny does infidelity take on it true manifestation; that of a shabby, dirty, little lie.
Good luck.
Coach

Georgia,

I too have seen a few MCs in my lifetime and have mostly been disappointed. Sheesh, in fact my husband and I were seeing a MC at the same time he was having the affair.

MC and I never found out at the time. That MC was a WASTE of time and money.

That said...our counseling with Steve Harley was enormously beneficial. It's almost eerie how insightful he is. Benefit of being an expert in a narrow field. I truly believe he's probably heard it all.

I want to say we coached with him about 9 months. Have paper and pencil (notebook is best) because you're going to want to take notes.

You should talk with Steve first, and he'll guide you as to whether or not he suggests talking with your wife now or on a future appt.

I believe you'll start to relax and feel some peace. One of the best thing Steve did for us was take the pressure off US having to figure out what to do. We followed his very specific plan, and were told not to try to counsel/coach the other. It was a huge relief. Blessings!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, she sees him as a “mission opportunity” as he has been raised, lets just say, “in another faith”.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Georgia Guy - Let's see.....I'm a Christian, so I have a license to sin against God.....hmmmmm....

Gotta admit that it would be interesting to hear her explain to the OM the necessity of being obedient to God's commands.....like "thou shalt not commit adultery."

Just one more example of "fogtalk" and how they try to justify their behavior.

As for what you've been doing, you've been doing great. One of the hardest parts is to endure patiently, and you've done great in this area up to now.

If you are going to enter counseling with SH, may I suggest that you ask him about participating, or the amount of participating, in the forum? I strongly believe that if you are going to benefit from the counseling, you may need ONE counselor who is trained. He is, most of us are not.

With respect to the "being dogmatic" thing, yes, I suppose so. When God's position is clearly spoken we can either stand for that position or attempt to say that God is wrong. He won't force us, but we will have consequences either way.

Your wife appears to "playing" Christian, but not surrendering her life to God. That's a big difference. I could go on, but for now, that's enough.

"Live upstairs" Give me a break. Does she realize just how far gone she is with this sort of "reasoning?"

Yes, GG, a crisis of reality seems to be in order. You might also want to read up on "180 degree" behavior to help with this. You already seem to be doing a little of that and a good understanding of the principles might help you.

God bless.

All -

I'm at home and WW is EXTREMELY depressed. OM told her he is through playing games, that he hates ME, etc. He's gone forever!!!(I don't believe it for a moment, by WW does).

So, WW is in bed, weeping, I suspect will be there for the night.

I'm glad, Coach, that there are others following this sordid trail. Seems at time too bizarre to be true. My W is an intelligent, articulate and attractive woman who seems to have totally lost touch with reality.

I understand what you are saying about truth with SH, I've got more than my fair share of weaknesses and (for you, FH) even sins. But...I'm willing to reveal them.

FH - I consider you the clergy of the MB boards..keep it up. Don't misconstrue my comments about being dogmatic. It's just that it so easy to wield truth without love and compassion, and that's what I try hard to balance.

I'm going to try to be as pleasant as I can be this weekend. It has been LB'ing to the max around here for a day or two.

Also, yes, I would assume that SH will be my one source for counseling, but I do hope I can share progress on this site. I'd feel lost without keeping in touch with you all. I feel I've gotten a lot of anonymous friends, been nice since I've not shared this with others.

Please post as I think it may be a lonely weekend.

Georgia

Wish I could find something to say. Something brilliant, that would ease your pain, and bring your M to a speedy recovery. GG - you are a bright shining light of Christs Love. Well done.

I suppose I have one small tiny thing to add. During the darkest times, when my WxH was at his absolute worst, and I struggled for a way to relate to him without becoming completely disgusted with him, I would simply pray that God would help me to see him through Jesus' eyes. Does that make sense? That I would see past the ugly exterior of what my WH had become, and I would see him the way Jesus does. It always helped me.

I pray this weekend you would have quiet moments of peace. Those times that can only be described as the "Peace That Passes All Understanding".

Georgia, Steve never had a problem with me posting to the forum...at the time I was coaching with him he didn't read it himself.

However, I remember referring to a post here once and he asked me where to find it...

The only concern that I can remember he had about the forum is that many posters mean well, but give advice based on their experiences.

So much of what we learned from Steve had nothing to do with what we read on this site at all.

He customs your recovery based on your specific situation. It may be in confict with what you may read or be told here.

WOF5 -

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Truth is, I'm just a "guy", and I have the same struggles as the rest. I've lost my cool more times than I care to admit...I'm ashamed of my actions sometimes, not Christ-like at all.

Your prayer is indeed wonderful. When I look at my W as she is laying in bed asleep, I am humbled by the turmoil that must be going on in her soul and mind. I love her so much, and it hurts me to see her become the shell of the woman who was the vibrant, all-wise woman of just a few years ago. We have, indeed, been best friends for 3 decades.

So thanks for reminding me, I'm not to be judgemental (yes, I can be at times), but rather compassionate and with no right to throw even the first pebble.

Your prayers this weekend, and beyond, mean much to me.

Georgia

GG,
Again, I stand in awe of your love and compassion for your partner. I'm truly sorry you're having to go through this and I hope the weekend goes well.
You're getting excellent advice here. Coach's post was nothing short of awesome not to mention right on the money. Please give the last paragraph some thougth. It really opened my eyes. (thanks, Coach!)
I'll be thinking you you and WW in my prayers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FH - I consider you the clergy of the MB boards..keep it up. Don't misconstrue my comments about being dogmatic. It's just that it so easy to wield truth without love and compassion, and that's what I try hard to balance. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG, in trying to "balance" and to find that "balance" you will do just fine. Remember I said "just fine," not "perfect." None of us is perfect and we all make mistakes. That's one of the reasons why "I'm sorry" and "please forgive me" are integral parts of any marriage. Love DOES mean having to say you're sorry when you've done something wrong or hurtful to your spouse.

Perhaps the best illustration of this necessity is Jesus's instruction to Peter to "forgive seventy times seven times" if necessary. It also means that someone said "I'm sorry" and sought forgiveness the same number of times. We are imperfect beings in imperfect bodies. The struggle for that "balance" continues all of our lives. Make no apologies for the struggle, only for the occasional "slips" and "stumbles."

By the way, if I am the "clergy of the MB boards" we are all in big trouble. You have no idea how "short" I feel in that department. All I try to do is to stand for what I understand to be God's clear commands and instruction. The Scripture is suitable for all training and instruction......and reveals the perfect will of God, our Lord.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm at home and WW is EXTREMELY depressed. OM told her he is through playing games, that he hates ME, etc. He's gone forever!!!(I don't believe it for a moment, by WW does).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is EXTREMELY good news! The purpose of bringing the affair out into the open is to DESTABILIZE and eventually END the affair. HOW it ends is not as important as it ending.

Also, think about how "perfect" the OM now seems. She's starting to see that her fantasy was not reality and the OM is NOT "Mr. Perfect." GAMES. Think about what that is saying to your wife. Her marriage to you was a game. Her involvement with the OM was game. He doesn't like the "game," doesn't get "his way," so he is going to take his bat and glove and go home. Now there's a "real" friend and/or "love of my life who really understands me."

Just who, of the two of you (the OM and you) is really sticking with her through thick and thin? The bubble bursts. The dam breaks. The flood of reality starts, perhaps as just a trickle initially, but it will build in force with time.

Gotta love the "game of life!!!" Congratulations!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yes, it's hard to see her going through withdrawal pain....but the cancer must go, the pain must be endured, so that health can be reestablished.

God bless.

<small>[ November 20, 2004, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

This is going to be the most difficult post I have done yet....

Tonight, WW announced that she will be leaving me next week as she can no longer put up with a "controlling" H. I did not get angry, or yell, or anything of the such...I told her that we would tell our kids tomorrow. Then I told her I would be calling her parents right now to tell them. She got angry and told me not to call and wake them up. I told her I was going to call right now.

She picked up the phone and called 911!! The cops came out, talked to us, and suggested that we go to counseling and then they left. I was utterly shocked that she called them.

I have told her (again) that she is welcome to live here as long as she wants, be my wife, and I love her. However, I will no longer tolerate this relationship with OM.

Then....I called her parents. Her dad has offered to help me have her committed. He said he knew she must be putting me through hell and that she knows better than this (he is a retired minister). I hated to break this to them, but exposure time is here. I love my IL's, and they love me. This is so hard. WW is upstairs right now talking to her dad.

Please, pray right now as this is the crisis point in this relationship. I'll proably be here for a while.

Mimi - "To be honest with you, Georgia. My FWH decided to leave me when I clamped down."

Well, Mimi, seems our similarities continue, doesn't it? I'm confident I have done the right thnig, I am not angry at her. I don't know where this is all going to end up. I think it is good that her brother has offered to let her stay there for a while. It gives her an option other than the OM. However, he's about a 8 hour drive from her (N. Kentucky).

Georgia

<small>[ November 21, 2004, 01:50 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

Were you able to expose her to her parents before she got on the phone with them?
Most likely she's doing damage control, knowing that you're going to be telling them.

You are right though, it is time to expose to everyone who matters.

Thanks, TTSi, for jumping in...I need someone to "talk to" right now.

Yes, she had gone to take a shower, so her dad and I had a good 10-15 minute conversation. I just tried to lay out the bare facts, not all the sordid details. He is a wise man, and I don't think he will be swayed by an of WW's damage control.

He said, repeatedly, "she must be crazy".

Georgia

Not a problem, glad I can help.

Just keep sticking with the truth. That's the most powerful weapon you have right now.
It will be a bonus if you ILs take your side on this. It does tend to help the BS's situation for most people.
Since you mentioned he is a former minister, He will probably stay on your side. Count this as a HUGE blessing. Most parents nowadays do not hold their adult children accountable for their choices, just as so long they "are happy." The parents could care less about their children's morals. It's sad.

TTSi - I haven't been familiar with your story, I was taking a few minutes to glance over. My WW is, so far, just heavily involved in an EA.

Sounds like you've had it rough...so sorry. You are such a young couple with so much to look forward to.

Your right about the truth. Sometimes in our emotional state, the truth may be little subjective. However, the facts speak for themselves as truth, and no matter how hard it is, we all should try to remain non-judgemental...just tell the truth.

Again, thanks for responding...I'll probably be up all night.

Georgia

BTW,
Why is her dad offering to help have her committed? Or is that just a statement he made at the disbelief of the situation?

Yes, plus he said he has noticed how she has changed in the past year or so. They live about 350 miles from here. WW used to e-mail her parents daily, but contact has all but stopped since the EA. They have been hurt, but didn't know why her bahavior change. I think they were blaming it on her menopause.

I think they are still talking...

I have realized that I have no way of knowing if she gets off the phone with them, and call OM instead.

Georgia

I know it's hard to do, but try to not dwell on exactly what she is or isn't doing right now.
You aren't going to be able to control her actions, but you can control your reactions to her.
Probably the best advice I could give someone here, is to try to keep your eyes on the big picture. Don't get bogged down in little details so that your can't see the forest for the trees.
The whole journey is going long and painful. There is no way around that and there are no shortcuts. It is going to be a real test of who you are.

oops, double post.

<small>[ November 21, 2004, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: TTSi ]</small>