God brought us together

This is so interesting, because I heard these words too, and I know others have as well. I am tempted to start another thread asking how many others have heard this, and how did the WS actually back it up?
As Christians, we know what the bible says about M, and we know that God hates D. So, if my WH had said "I know this is worng, but I am going to do it anyway." I think I would have said "ok, there you have it". But when he said "I know that God intends for us to be together - otherwise he would not have brought her into my life" that was the comment that was like a knife to my heart.
I was left thinking:
"Does that mean that God intends for me to be lonely and alone? Why would God plan for you to run off into the sunset, leaving me behind to raise these two boys?"
I know that this line is pure crap, but how do Christians, who have attended church for years, actually get to the point where they believe this??
Fight the good fight Georgia Guy. God will honor you for it.

Hi Georgia:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know what would be scarey? What if, through my discourse with SH, I really did change? And, in that change, I was able to show WW that marriage to me could be great. I might never even get to do Plan B!!!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's definitely true that you will change from your coaching with Steve. He certainly helped me change a lot. I had many great and helpful sessions with him. I'm not as sure about the PLAN B part but I'll keep praying for you both.

<small>[ November 23, 2004, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Good Morning to all...

I had really hoped WW would be back in bed tonight, but she's gone to her own room again. I feel much better tonight...I think I was able to convey a sense of calm and well-being to WW. As the evening progressed, I think she started having withdrawals from OM as her attitude slowly changed for the worse. She's either developed some sort of intestinal problem, or she has started conversing with OM from the water closet. Last few days she's been disappearing for 30 - 45 minutes at a time, like last night when we got home from dinner. Oh well..

I suspect that Plan B is a very real possibility. I'm going to make another appt with SH for next Monday, maybe that should be a standing appt time. My suspicion is that there is going to be a short fuse until Plan B.

Update - I just had a brief telephone convo. with the local IC that I have seen in past. He spent a lot of time on the phone Sunday with WW. He tells me that he has never seen a case like this, never seen anyone in such a state of denial as my WW (IC is in his mid-70's).

Mimi..I took great comfort in your "Miracles Can Happen" post yesterday morning. I copied that and e-mailed it to the boys, it contains a powerful message that others have been here and come out the other side even better. I've discussed that communique with #1 Son, it meant a lot to him too. Thanks.

WOF5 - I suspect that most of us who are married to Christians have heard that same thing. Obviously an attempt to thwart their well-deserved guilt. SH, in my session on Monday, was very deliberate in talking about Biblical truths being the foundation of all truth. When our senses, or actions, disagree, it is the Bible which is always the benchmark by which truth is defined.

My WW bounces between telling me that her and OM are just friends and I'm a jealous H to knowing that what she is doing is wrong and she's going to do it anyway. When #1 Son asked about how Biblically acceptable were her actions, she replied that the Bible didn't apply and God understood what she was doing. He was so hurt...I've realized the pain this is putting them through. He said that this is not the same Mom that raised him.

That's the reason they call it fog, I guess.

Using the drug addict parallel, I've framed this (within the family) as a time that Mom needs our help and if we don't help her, who will? We've talked about how Mom would have done the same for any of us, and now it's our chance to do for her. We've discussed that we can't, right now, expect her to meet any of our needs, but a day will come when we will have her back.

Thank you for your words of encouragement, as you know, faith is a real anchor during this trying time.

It's good to see you are still a Woman of Faith...your kids (as well as yourself) will benefit so greatly from that. I never thought the day would come when my kid's faith would be such an encouragement to me.

I appreciate so much the prayers of all my friends here on this board. This has become an intergral part of the support I receive from family, my pastoral friend, each of you, and my faith that God is still in charge.

I would ask that each of us remember that the funeral for the father of "Mom to 3 Boys" is at 3:00 PM (CST) today in San Antonio, TX. Let's all remember to pray for her and the boys.

Georgia

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

Having my own struggles this morning. Have any thoughts on my post at CONFLICT AVOIDERS.....????

Mimi...

So sorry it's taken me so long to respond. I've written you a novella on the other thread.

Please repond back here (if you wish), I may not keep following the thread other too closely.

I hope things go well with you and that issue tonight, and I hope my input is meaningful to you.

Work till midnight? YUK....

Georgia

Georgia:

You definitely have been helpful to me.

My goal will be the UNITED FRONT which certainly has not been existent for several years. That has been a major problem in our marriage, the environment that I created for the A. WH felt like he did not belong and looked elsewhere. Now things are even more complicated because of the anger that, especially my younger son, has with him because of the A. The younger son was there with me when I was alone, depressed, etc. None of that certainly justifies my son's disrespect of US. I think that my H is leary of dealing with him because of the guilt but will try to hand more of this over to him. You don't think it's too late for that after all of this? Do you? I've tried to run interference between them. That truly is AVOIDANCE OF CONFLICT, seeing it between them.

To catch you up on further history, my H tried to redo it with the OW and her teenage daughter. I really resent her trying to make him into a father for her daughter. (When he left her, I heard her say on a Voice Mail, "What will I tell DAUGHTER'S NAME?"-that's my other issue, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He has often said that he found that he "hated her daughter" but he certainly always speaks about his "love for OUR sons". I almost said "his" sons so may its a figure of speech for me. Justification? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mimi...working on a response, back with you in a moment.

Let's finish this convo today before I go home, okay?

Georgia

I was hoping I’d catch you before I left for the day.

I’m going to talk to you like I would any friend, and use plain language. What I am saying is...relax, trust that I really believe what I’m going to say and don’t get up tight. You “sound” stressed.

I know absolutely nothing about your son or your husband, but I’m going to tell you how I THINK I would attempt to deal with this situation (if I were your H).

It is a very, very serious matter that your son has seen his Dad violate the trust of the family...and, most importantly, the trust of his Mom. He is old enough to know about the unparalleled intimacy of sex, and he understands what that violation means. (BTW – I recognize that everything you have gone through is exponentially worse than what I’ve been through).

I would suggest that your H work to try to make your son his very best friend (next to you, of course). Breakfast out on Saturday mornings, trips to the ball game, whatever. But more than the activity, there MUST BE (key is here) a willingness on the part of your H to open his heart to your son, be vulnerable, and admit that he has sinned against you (Mom), him (son), and God. Dad blew it. PERIOD. No excuses. Nothing about what Mom did or didn’t do. Stop. Nothing else to follow about the Dad blew it subject.

Now, H wants to make sure that son doesn’t follow in his footsteps. The battle of every man (any that say otherwise are liars) is sexual sin. Temptation everywhere. H has experienced the terrible consequences of sin, loves his son so he would never want him to have to go through such a thing.

Open ended conversation to follow... don’t make this a lecture. “Son, I know that you’re old enough to have these thoughts, and I know that you fight the same battle I’ve fought”. We both are men and we both know it’s tough. I failed, and I know it. You need to be very careful to guard your thoughts, as do I, because you can do things in a few moments from which you can never recover in a lifetime.

What does this have to do with curfew, you may ask?

I think your H may have trouble getting the authority he wants (and needs) because your (plural) son MAY see him as a hypocrite. What gives him the right to tell me when to come home when he went to sleep with the clean-up woman? An honest, open heart will regain his respect and return your H’s honor, a “Clintonesque” apology will be seen for what it is, a thinly veiled attempt to mitigate guilt.

Okay...

“that's my other issue, right?”

No...the other issue is your obsession with FOW. Your ‘other issue list’ is growing....

“You don't think it's too late for that after all of this? Do you?”

Of course not. But, I can’t stress enough the importance of you H’s heart in his relationship with S. That’s key. Kids can spot phony. Don’t be who we’re not.

“I've tried to run interference between them”

Don’t do that. They’ve got to connect with each other, without reservation.

Alright, I’m going to wait on you to respond before I leave...this is important BEFORE TONIGHT.

Georgia;

THIS REALLY IS MY MAJOR ISSUE. REALLY. NOT THE OW.

I can't make them connect with each other. There is mainly anger or avoidance between them. Maybe if I step out of the way they will connect. I'm sure that they both love each other but it's not evident. It's like I love our son and I love my H but they are not showing love for each other. It's always been a problem for my H. He had a poor relationship with his father and is estranged from his parents. He has had a hard time connecting with the boys in the way you suggest. I've tried to tell them that he loves them the best way that he can.

Once counselor told me that I married a man who should not have had children. Actually we were married for 7 years before children. Oh well. My husband has always been a wonderful provider and caretaker, in terms of picking them up from school, washing the clothes, bathing them, etc. but not good at all with them in sharing his soul.

I have to run do a 5 minute job thing but will be right back. Am awaiting your response to this. It is really important.

Thanks.

GG,
It sounds like you did very well. But please keep in mind that while having expressed yourself in an appropriate manor, your WW still needs to know that you will still not countinence her disrespectful behavior by agreeing to her being in contact with her “boyfriend” from your home.

In other words, she has to know that what’s motivating behavior doesn’t change the issue at hand. And that you will not allow yourself to be hurt and be shown this kind of disrespect in the home that you’ve worked you whole life to build.
Coach

I'm thinking

Okay, Mimi...let me try some more.

”THIS REALLY IS MY MAJOR ISSUE. REALLY. NOT THE OW.”

Sounds like 2 different issues, one marital, one parental. Anyway, that’s not germaine right now.

I doubt if you step out of the way, they will connect. I didn’t realize that this was an existing condition, pre-A.

I’ve looked at this, thought about it, and prayed about it (really). What I have to say is that the same thing (in my opinion) still applies. Your H is going to HAVE to take the lead and see his responsibility here. This may not be natural to him (like me and overanalyzing things), but sometimes we are called upon to change for the good of others.

I’m feeling inadequate here, and I’m feeling like I’m letting you down. Sorry.

Mimi...you’ve told me how you’ve reconnected with H, about how good your M is now. This is one where (if you think I am right in the things I’ve said), you’re going to have to convince him by wifely persuasion. I don’t know how else to say it, and I don’t know what else to say.

It’s not going to happen accidentally, the relationship will probably atrophy is not addressed.

Some of that Mimi “fight spirit” is going to have to gently persuade H to do this. He’s got to be willing to be vulnerable.

Make sense?

I’ve got an issue for you, too. Before I go if possible.

Georgia:

Thanks for listening. I believe it will happen through wifely persuasion. My H says it will happen in time. It's that we are also in the midst of adolescent rebellion. Quite complicated. Thanks for listening.

Go ahead with your issue. Let me know, though, if if you can read my response later because I unfortunately need to go.

Coach -

I have found it to be a very thin line indeed, not "controlling" or making "demands" while clearly communicating the unacceptability of the situation. I think that I have followed SH's guidance in talking about how this hurts me, and I've given WW no reason to believe that it is "okay", it just hurts.

WW is continuing to attempt to "punish" and "manipulate" me by absence (totally) in the bedroom. I have no intention of buckling, but the communication of unacceptable behavior is based upon the hurt and pain that it causes me.

Does that make sense, and is that what you are saying?

BTW - I really appreciate your posts. Thanks for helping out.

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

Mimi..this is short.

Let's just say, Satan knows how to get us when we're the most vulnerable. And he knows how to send temptation (disguised as beauty) just when we least need it.

I'm struggling today with an issue that yesterday I would have thought I'd never struggle with.

This is going to be hard.

Pray for me...if you understand me, you know what has happened today.

Georgia

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

I will check back in a couple of hours. I will let you know how it goes this evening.

Good Morning to all -

Last night, #2 Son and DIL invited us to go to Bible study at their church. He is Minister of Youth there (while he's in college full time about 1 hour from home). Afterwards, we all had dinner at a small restaurant downtown. Nice, cozy - we all enjoyed it. After we got home, DIL surprised us with a chocolate cake she had baked and brought to town with her today. Very nice...lots of family connection.

Thanksgiving we plan to go out for late lunch (early dinner)with #2 Son, DIL, and DIL's parents. Afterwards...a surprise for WW.

#2 Son has bought us (on my behalf) a very large Christmas tree. After we get home from dinner, he and DIL are going to bring it over here and we all (6) are going to put up the tree and decorate it. First time we will have ever all 6 done this together.

WW loves coconut cream pies, so today I had a local bakery bake a pie for her. I'll serve it after tree construction.

(Mimi, I've been remembering what you said about the "legitimate stuff")

Okay, so hopefully a good day for WW tomorrow.

Now, the issue at hand. Last Saturday night was when I called WW's parents and exposed to them. Since then, our R has gone cold. No more phone calls in the morning, on the way to school, anytime. Not much talking at all. And...she's not been in bed with me since then.

That part is really getting to me badly. I think that she may consider herself as permanently moved into an upstairs guest room. I ask her if this was now a permanent arrangement, and she said "I don't know". No more comments.

I feel like she is trying to punish me for exposing. It's not the sex thing (that's been shot for a while now), but the lack of any snuggling at night, no goodnight kiss, waking up alone...that's really getting to me. I know she's still talking to OM because of a comment that she casually made. I'm feeling like this may be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

Georgia

<small>[ November 25, 2004, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

GG - I know it's hard and I know the uncertainty that you feel. Her reaction to the exposing of the affair to her parents is understandable.

It hurt. It changed their perception of her. It will be a "barrier" between her and them for a while. It will change as you both grow in your marriage together.

It will take time. I KNOW how every minutes seems to last a week and every week seems to last a month. But, GG, having gone through several 3 month long "downers" myself, time WILL pass and both she and you will get back on "even keel". You WILL, be able to look back and see it really didn't last that long in the grand scheme of things.

God's timing is NOT our timing. Patience is a term we knew...but now we will KNOW what it really means. The same goes for "endurance."

God bless.

Good Morning, Georgia:

Don't forget to share the what happened on Friday. You mentioned an incident. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I really goofed when I went out on my own during this process and did not share with my MB Support Group.