Thanks for joining in TNBelle -

Actually, I feel like the longer I'm doing this, the worse I'm getting.

Very frustrating, indeed.

Georgia

Georgia:

You well remind me of the HORROR(my word for today) of all of this. Sometimes, like you or any of us, I want to pretend that it is not happening and that it will magically go away. That's because all of this is so unbelievable, particularly given the seemingly idyllic nature of our previous marriage. Yes, our previous marriage, because what we once knew is now gone. However, we are able to keep those times in our memory. It's like a death that we need to grieve. So much for the philosophizing this morning. To give you hope, I did have a great weekend with H and sons. We all made baby steps which I think will add up to the completion of this over time.

On to you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Talked about the pain being caused, told her that I was indeed convinced that our M could be better than ever, etc. Told her that I miss having her in bed and I think it important that we not allow that distance to grow between us, that this is detrimental to our R.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was magnificent. I think you did great. This is what I would have suggested regarding the bedroom. You said it. It was the appropriate and right thing for you to say to her. That is your position on this. Now, she cannot use your rejection of her as a justification for staying closed up in the bedroom talking to him. She has to fall back on her own unreasonable, flimsy excuses such as anger over exposure to your parents,worse fignts occurring at night,etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She said that it was the wrong thing to do to tell her parents, that I have damaged her reputation forever </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Isn't this foggy? It's you that's damaged her reputation? She deadset on making you out to be the bad guy. This seems to be so typical for the WS.

Thank-you for PROVERBS 7. I wasn't familiar with this passage. I just read it. WOW!! That is powerful. Sounds just like the CLEAN-WOMAN! That's part of why the WOMAN in my case is so enchanting to even me. When I see her, she reminds me of a woman such as this. I see her almost capable of casting a spell even on me, to cause me to do something stupid. Maybe that's the reason for my H's warning for me to steer clear of her paths... like he does.

My gut reaction is that it was a good idea for you to share with your wife about the seductress. This is because HONESTY AND OPENNESS are best and you are becoming the best person that you can be. That's good for you. In the long run, it will likely have a good effect on your marital situation because you are not following her route of being dishonest and deceitful. She would not be able to hold that against you. It will be good to ask Steve about this but my guess is that he will approve. He will help you fine tune how to discuss this with her.

I, like you, found Steve to be much more lenient, than folks on the forum, about the MB principles. That's why I mentioned him not encouraging me to do a strict PLAN B.

Your anger about her getting right back on the phone with him is certainly understandable.

I just think you are doing great in the midst of a horrible experience. Your WW continues to be lost in the fog....

I may not be able to respond until 20 to 30 minutes from now.

Mimi...thanks for your very kind words of encouragement-

HORROR is a good word to use.

About my rambling posts the other night. I know now (in clearer thinking) that I was having my own pity party. Please disregard...but the things I said are truth.

To me, Proverbs 7 is one of the most powerful and overlooked chapters in the Bible dealing with men’s temptation. There is very much to learn there. Caution – Georgia in teaching mode:
You will note that even though the final destruction is caused by sexual sin, the temptation to the man (“the fool”) is by the “flattering lips” (depending on the Bible version you’re using). In other words, it is his ego or (for those of us with Words of Affirmation as our primary EN) self-esteem. When my boys were grown, and on their own, I talked about this chapter with each and urged caution, especially #2 Son in youth ministry and surrounded by teen-age girls.

But, I read this passage and I see myself as the fool and the PA as the harlot. Unkind thing to say about someone I’ve never met, possibly a good woman (okay, save your comments)...but I’m trying to salvage myself by reading that chapter over and over. WW was impressed that my marker was right there. Convinced her I was telling her the truth.

Before you (or anyone else) give me an atta-boy or thinks highly of me, I am still thrown into a terrible mess by this thing with the PA. I lay in bed and dream of calling her and hearing her voice. I dream of taking her to the park and talking with her. Not pretty, but the truth. She flattered me with her lips, and I loved it. She has, indeed, cast a spell on me. Were it not for Proverbs 7, I would probably have already been in her house.

Okay, out of teaching mode.

Why, IYO, did Steve ask me if I was ready for Plan B? Was he testing me? Does he think it time? I’ll ask him, but I’m wondering what you think.

I think what can be tolerated varies from person to person. I'm not trying to win medals, Georgia. However, I was able to withstand more than this during my trials. Two D-Days, Two False Recoveries.... It's hard for them to break the addiction and you may have to go into the OTHER PLAN. I'm just not sure if now is the time... A question for the PRO, tomorrow.


I have read that men can tolerate less and must do a shorter PLAN A. Steve will counsel you on this. I know he wants you to go the OTHER PLAN if you feel that your love is dwindling. It just never got to that point for me. I was sort of forced into PLAN B because my H decided to leave me for the OW. He continued to want to maintain contact with me even then. Separation papers signed on Friday, SF with me on Monday (3 days later), just to fill you in my history. I had to do PLAN B to stop his cake-eating.

I'm good at holding my anger inside.

As you can tell from my last post, Sexual Temptation was not the cause of my H's affair. Affirmation was the Primary Need that the Young OW fulfilled for him. I've continued to do best on the SF which he has consistently wanted to continue with me. Therefore, PROVERBS 7 really hit home. AFFIRMATION, FEEDING HIS EGO was her drug. I have a hard time with this and have to almost force myself to complement him, etc. I'm thinking it but don't say it.

To help you though, my FWH has told me that he soon learned once with her during PLAN B that she could not keep this up. He learned that it was all a show that she did to catch him. However, she is good at it. He calls it her SURVIVAL TACTIC to lure men.

I will get back to you on the Steve Harley question.

I don't know about Plan B, either, Mimi...

This has been a really rough week for me, as you can tell. I don't know if I've reached my limit, but I do think WW's actions are having a very detrimental effect on my feelings (love?) for her. There seems to be no break in the "in your face" attitude no matter how good the Plan A. She eats cake in every room on the house.

I'll ask SH tomorrow.

Okay, I've taken up enough of your time.

Let me close by saying congrats on the good weekend with H and sons. There are some things from your posts on the Conflict Avoiders thread that worry me. I know it's not my business, but please don't "turn the tables" on me and hide stuff. You're doing great and I value your input.

Let me also say the input from the other folks, LIR, TNBelle, WOF, FH, etc are all really, really valued.

I read and re-read all posts to glean wisdom.

Georgia

Okay, just read your last posts...one more thing.

Even though you and I are same in many ways, we've got some role swapping going on here.

My EN is Affirmation (like your H's). WW had rather be kicked in the head than give anyone a compliment. Not a good pairing in a M.

Ex: Outside my WW's window over her garden tub, I planted a flower garden with, what I thought was beautiful blooming flowers. She can lay in tub, see flowers. I took her outside (this was 2 years ago, not in fog), proudly showed it to her, and she said "looks like a bunch of weeds to me". She says (much like you - hey, first time I've compared you to my WW!) that she can't be phony and pat pepole on the back just because they need to hear it. When she does (or has) compliemented me, it sounds phony coming out of her mouth.

Perhaps this is what is germaine here. This is why PA tempted me so much. If she had invited me over for a tumble, it would have been tempting. But, she flattered me. That has just about reduced me to a pile of rubble.

You need to understand this in your H. I wish my W could understand it about me. I don't know how you (and WW) could change in this regard, but it is really, really important.

Okay, now I'm done.

Georgia

Georgia:

I think the reason that I find you so helpful is that you are like my FWH. It's scary.

When you were describing all the stuff that you did for your wife during that middle of the night post, it sounded just like my FWH. He has started to do the same things for me again. He has planted flowers throughout our yard and wants to take me on a tour of the yard and hear me rave about his plantings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He brings me coffee in bed, brings me flowers at work, etc. He's started to do these things again. I've learned to say thank-you and, surprisingly, to me, he wants to hear it each time. I used to take him for granted. By the time I realized this and told him that "I took you for granted", he was too deeply involved with the OW to easily get away from her. However, I remember the very day that "I GOT IT" and he realized that "I GOT IT". The OW, on the other hand, "NEVER HAD A MAN WHO WAS EVEN NICE TO HER; SHE WAS USED TO TAKING CARE OF MEN WHO DID NOT TAKE CARE OF HER".

What's true for me, which might be true for your wife, is that AFFIRMATION is not an important EN of mine. It's just not all that important for someone to say thank-you to me, I think. At least, I have not learned the value of this.

What do you say?

I think Steve tries to gauge how much you can take. He does not want you to get to the place where your love is dwindling so he kept asking me that question. However, like I previously stated, I was able to withstand a lot. Maybe it's my history of having been emotionally abused... Despite his couple of years of infidelity, overall, my FWH has treated me better, really when I sum things up, than ANYONE ELSE HAS EVER TREATED ME. Now, he seems to be trying to make up the bad times to me. He is a man of action, not words. I forgot to tell you how my FWH bought me a new car when he came back home. Sound familiar? That's how he seems somewhat different than you. I mean different in terms of not being able to speak kind words as well as you. He will do things for our sons(wanted to buy "rims" for young son's car) although he may not be able to speak those kind words to them.

He never had a chance to buy the OW a car. She's still driving her old model and he claims that he didn't take her on trips to our special places.... Oh Well....here I go again with the OW!

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi:

You might think it scary, but I’m almost confused. Up until this point, I’ve felt like you and I were “peas in a pod”, so to speak. But now...it’s like roles have swapped....I’m (like) your FWH and you’re (like) my WW. I don’t know what’s going on, but I think we’re continuing to help each other – I hope.

Okay, let me take a shot at this.

Yes, I revel in doing those things (like your FWH) for my wife. I know you’ll think this crazy (you’ve probably pegged me as a basket case anyway), but PA told me that her hobby is oil painting landscapes. I’ve had thoughts (talk about cart before the horse) of how pleasant life would be if I built her a house overlooking the river so she could have her own studio. (PA doesn’t know I’ve had these thoughts either, would probably certify me as insane if she knew).

I, too, like to take WW on a tour of the yard. She quickly points out the weeds that I need to remove. One of the first things I did when we moved in (2 years ago this month), was plant her a rose garden. She can clip fresh roses every day. However, the only thing I hear about is that I need to add more bark, pull the weeds, whatever. You may not remember this, but the night I left and went to a motel (approx. 3 - 4 weeks ago, I think), she called my voice mail the next day and left a long message. She talked about how she was in the yard cutting roses, and she realized that I showed my love in a different way. She said she looked around her and saw expressions of my love everywhere, and she apologized for not taking the time to notice. That was wonderful (and temporary, unfortunately).

I know that AFFIRMATION doesn’t mean beans to my wife, hence her (and you, apparently) not realizing how important this is to me and FWH. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU KNOW THAT PROVERBS 7 SPEAKS TO THIS DIRECTLY.

Okay, it gets scarier:

I learned a lot about PA in the time we talked last Wednesday. PA may have a lot of similarities to FOW.
She is 2X divorced (45 y.o.). First marriage lasted 13 years. Her FH had multiple affairs, and they had much MC apparently with no success. She left him when he started wanting to bring other women home for 3-some’s. She says that 2nd marriage happened way too quick, her on rebound. Ended (3 years) when she caught him buying gifts for other women. Anyway, that’s her version of the story. In my mind (probably just like your FWH), I’m thinking....this woman needs a man who knows how to treat her. I bet she would like flowers in her yard, a new car, etc...Probably wouldn’t complain about the weeds, and would be able to muster a hardy “thank you” from time to time. Does this sound familiar?

She has a 12 y.o. son (again, sound familiar?). His primary career interest just happens to be what I do for a living. She would love for him to see where I work.

OKAY, but here’s the problem with this whole thing. The above play is starring you as my WW, me as your FWH, and FOW as the PA. All fits pretty nicely....

But, how does WW’s EA come into play? As you may recall, that’s what got me on this post, what is about to drive me nuts, about to destroy my marriage, etc.

You don’t have a secret you’re not telling me, do you?

EDIT UPDATE - Maybe this is the big question (that I need to know...). What does FWH do that makes you FEEL loved? If all the above roles truly fit...that is the key to what I need to find out.

Georgia.

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

To clear up your confusion, I think our similarities are coming into play because we can be characterized as LONG-TERM MARRIAGES IN MID-LIFE CRISIS. How about this for a new diagnosis?

I don't have any secrets that I can think of. There were a series of conversations with my FWH's best friends that were alluring. I stopped having those conversations early on during PLAN B. I'm sure they have found me Physically Attractive and were very complementary of me as a wife just like your PA was.I've alluded to my H that they seemed to be taking advantage of his absence. He is no longer friendly with them and won't talk further about his distancing from them. Other than that, I'm clean. Well, there have been a couple of drivebys to the OW's house...just checking to make sure.... I do have the OW obsession. Nothing new, Georgia.

I'll be thinking over lunch. I'll get back to you soon.

Georgia:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I lay in bed and dream of calling her and hearing her voice. I dream of taking her to the park and talking with her. Not pretty, but the truth. She flattered me with her lips, and I loved it. She has, indeed, cast a spell on me. Were it not for Proverbs 7, I would probably have already been in her house.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This statement has haunted me. It sounds like it could have come straight out of my FWH's mouth. The problem is he actually went to her house and eventually began a Physical Affair. He initially only had an EA with her for weeks/months and learned all about her history as you have with your PA.

Maybe you can look on this as a blessing, Georgia. Now you can fully empathize with your WW. You can really understand, moreso than I, how easily one can be lulled into an A if vulnerable. It's telling you about the state of your marriage. You can view it as a wake-up call. It sounds like you were also needy and vulnerable. Your WW beat you to the punch.

We, the four of us, are alike in having marriages that looked like "storybook" relationships as my son has said. He was so letdown because he thought we had the perfect relationship. So many aspects of our relationships were idullic compared to others. However, we probably let it get stale, started taking each other for granted and stopped working on creating and maintaining the MAGIC. Unfortunately, we had to go through this to realize what we had. I praying for you that you can get it back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’m thinking....this woman needs a man who knows how to treat her. I bet she would like flowers in her yard, a new car, etc...Probably wouldn’t complain about the weeds, and would be able to muster a hardy “thank you” from time to time. Does this sound familiar?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK. Another scary quote that could have come out of my FWH's mouth. He says though that this turned out to me a MAJOR PROBLEM in their relationship. He has really wanted me to know this but has failed to elaborate. I think that it turns out that his fantasy of her was not the reality, that is, these women turn out to not be the type of women that you want to do things for. Do you know what I mean? I'm REALLY KIND. I don't just PRETEND to be kind. There's a reason why these harlots have failed relationships and your WW and I have long-term marriages. So although your WW and I may not be complementary, we have other values, beliefs and practices that make us GOOD WIVES. Understand what I mean?

We four are alike in having LONG-TERM, CHRISTIAN MARRIAGES that went sour during this MID-LIFE STAGE. I think your W and my H failed to put up the needed BOUNDARY and PROTECTION that is necessary during vulnerable periods such as this. You have a better understanding than I do of how easily someone can get in through the gate if we open it wide enough. No, I did not have any EAs if that's where you are going. I certainly was vulnerable with my husband's supposed friends. However, I knew I had to deliberately CLOSE THE GATE which seems absolutely essential with this PA. It seems that you know far too much about her. Let's get thoughts of her completely out of your head!!!!

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Do they still do lobotomies?

Yes, Mimi, I realize what you are saying about PA.

I have the knowledge to realize that the whole thing stinks, and that is what has kept me at bay thus far. Again, Provers 7 is it for me right now...thinking of myself as the fool and her the harlot.

There is real mental gynastics going on in my head. Normally only room for one thought at a time....now I'm arguing with myself.

What if...she really is a good thing? WW doesn't care about me anyway. Why shouldn't I?

Anyway, you get the idea. No need to reply to that, it's all rhetorical at this point.

I will promise you that I will stay honest here about what I'm doing. (Temptation to do it and not tell anyone, including SH and this board).

I can't help notice that you didn't answer my question about what FWH does that really makes you FEEL loved. Why not?

To clarify...your FWH seems to do the same things for you that I do for WW. WW tells me that of the things I do (no need to list them), this doesn't make her feel loved. Does your FWH's actions make you feel loved? Insight, please.

Georgia

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

Maybe it's a slip but I missed your question.

It's hard for me to put this into words. I crave PHYSICAL AFFECTION. He does, too, NOW SINCE HIS A. So did he learn to meet my need from her? I don't remember this as being particularly important to him before the A. In fact, I used to hold back from public displays of affection because I thought that he did not like it. Now he likes this too. Should I be thankful to the OW?

I also love to get GIFTS which my FWH is tops on doing. He gifts me all the time and I get anxious when he stops. Still in competition here, I know she did not get the BIG GIFTS that I get such as cars/houses/dream vacations, etc. He liked it that she was thankful for small tokens. He claims to have bought her "cheap jewelry". His small gifts are fine with me now, too. However, he still chooses to buy me the big gifts.

I'm not too keen on conversation which he likes. I like quiet and solitude. However, I like to "recreate with him".

His PRESENCE is VITAL to me. Just him being there and being him. I don't know where that fits on an EN questionnaire. He makes my life worth living. I like smelling him, seeing his face, hearing his voice, hearing his laughter. I need him with me like a TEDDY BEAR. Him being with me is KEY. Him being connected to me is key. That's why I'm thankful that he kept his clothes with me. I could go into his closet and smell them... This is becoming sappy but am I answering your question??

My H's kind, boyish, vulnerable side is most appealing to me. He has a boyish, needy quality that makes me want to take care of him... He had stopped sharing that side with me during his A. He's let me in again and he is still there. He is still the same person.

Yes, you are answering my question about your situation, but I'm not sure I'm getting anything out of it to help me with WW.

Don't worry about the sappy part, I've still got you trumped on my ramblings the other night.

Okay, I don't want to get sidetracked from the SH guidance and what I am doing.

But...I think you've come to understand me pretty well. Maybe less so about WW.

What need is it she has (we've identified conversation and h&o) that I don't fulfill? From what I'm doing, what do YOU think I'm not doing "right"?

Or...do you think it is just fog? Remember, she started R with OM during her 2:00 AM hot flash IM sessions. At any other time, I'm available to listen to her.

Georgia

GG:

Was gone over Bird-Day weekend, so I'm still getting caught up, but this episode with the remark during SF caught my attention, and I wanted 2 comment on it, because I've BEEN THERE before, and I definitely know how THAT feels:

"When I told her (later) how badly that hurt me, she just said "you can't take my honesty"."

This isn't honesty, in my view. The remark itself was intentionally hurtful, perhaps even an attempt 2 punish you. She also probably confuses truth with honesty. We all do that. Even "radical honesty" merges the 2 concepts. In most walks of life, this is probably harmless generalization, but in dealing with As, I think it's important 2 remember the difference between relaying what and how you FEEL (honesty) and what you believe 2 be fac2al (truthfulness). She probably thinks she was being truthful with you, in a foggy sorta way, when really she was lashing out at you in the most hurtful way she could think of at the time.

FYI (and for Pep's info as well), my W once said "this is my problem, I just like 2 f***"), which had a similar effect on the act at the time. That was over 2 and a half years ago. At the time, i just felt stabbed through the heart. I couldn't put my finger on what that "meant" about her and us at that time. Even now, looking back, I believe that it meant that she was conflicted, divided. She wanted 2 stay firmly on her fence, even though she had ended the PA about 6 months earlier.

Perhaps more importantly, at that time, I thought I "needed" SF pretty regularly, even frequently. Truth is, though, that I really don't. I may WANT it, but after all this time I'd rather not have it than have it because she just "likes it". I'd rather focus on improving our communication and conflict-addressing skills. ...but I still don't 2rn down SF, when it's offered! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
FYI (and for Pep's info as well), my W once said "this is my problem, I just like 2 f***</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really? I never knew this.
How interesting. I guess she chose the wrong profession <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> if that's the case !!! ~LOL~

Pep

Pep:

Well, not 2 deliberately perpe2ate this threadjack <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , but you all might find it interesting what my W "thinks" of the depiction of prosti2tion on the Lobotomy Box and in movies.

Case in point: In the now-cancelled series "Firefly" (best described as a Sci-Fi Western), one of the main characters is a professional "companion", a job held in high regard. My W admires the character (heck, so do I, not just because she's cute, either...), and often "agrees" with the message (such that there is one deeper than the ''typical male" fantasies put in2 the scripts).

You know what, though? I don't care. I believe her feelings about "marital prosti2tion" are guilt-avoidance for the A. I *do* need 2 find ways 2 communicate that 2 her that aren't disrespectful of her as a person (why repay punishment with more hurt?). I *do* need 2 get past my own conflict-avoidance in order 2 do that, though.

I feel so strongly about CA being the CENTRAL ISSUE behind ALL affairs - NOT UNMET NEEDS (at least not at the center, more as a *result* of CA than a reason for it) - that I... ...well, I don't know what I'm going 2 do or say about it yet... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

GG: The comment about your W expecting an apology from you for exposing 2 her parents reminds me of a comment my W makes from time 2 time, which I have YET 2 coreograph a thoughtful, helpful response 2. My W's best friend of 15 years exposed her A 2 their coworkers "behind her back" about June of last year. My W and OM speculated for a while that it was me that did it, and it 2k a few more months for the truth 2 come out. My W hasn't spoken 2 her former best friend in over a year now. Whenever she brings her up in convo, it's always "All I want is an apology" or "She can't even apologize 2 me"... ...so far, my only reply I can come up with (imagined, but not spoken) is something like "apologize for telling the truth? Why should that bother you?" I haven't said that because I know it would be as hurtful 2 her as the "I just like 2..." remark from her. Really, her friend should have told her at the same time she told their coworkers (supervisor included), so my W would know why people are interacting with her in the manner they were at the time.

But really, I do need 2 find a way 2 use an "I" statement in context with that kind of remark when it comes up again.

-ol' 2long

Georgia:

Thanks for redirecting me. I do want to make a point in the midst of my ramblings here.

What I would recommend is studying the Harley literature on EMOTIONAL NEEDS. That's what I did. I became obsessively analytical about it which it seems that you are good at doing. I was able to identify that the FOW primarily met my FWH's NEED FOR ADMIRATION. Steve Harley greatly concurred with this and then I set about working on learning how to meet this need during my PLAN A.

I also identified the Needs which I am good at meeting for him such as Domestic Support, Financial Support, Sexual Fulfillment, etc. I became even better at meeting those needs. After analyzing the situation, I knew I had a lot going for me. Surely, she had to meet more needs than Admiration. He thought she could and had to go to live with her to find out how lacking she was. He found out that that was basically all that she could do. He kept trying to make her into me. She failed. It ended up that she could not meet the needs like I do. So once I learned to show my appreciation and admiration of him which he has truly deserved in the past and now, the rest is history.... He first, though, had to be released from her spell which seemed almost impossible..

This is why PLAN A is so important. The WS has to be convinced that you can meet the needs. This was my approach. I have to admit to being very ambitious and perfectionistic. So I tried to do my best in each area during PLAN A.

I was trying to indicate in my previous post that I goofed in the area of AFFECTION. I didn't think that was important to my FWH which now it is or it was and I didn't know it before. I believe one has to take a really hard and long look at this if it is worth it to them.

I knew that I had neglected my FWH in many of these areas and I set about working on becoming my best.

What I am saying is to begin your study of the entire Emotional Needs list, being honest with yourself about what you need to work on. She needs to work on areas, too, but that will only come during your Recovery. Right now, she is too fogged out to deal with real relationship issues. All of the work right now is yours.

By the way, I'm of a different view on SF. Maybe it's my age... turning 50 on Saturday. Alot of the time I do just like to do the F...word (I don't use that word out loud, really) and that's completely alright with my FWH!! This is in reference to the previous two posts from 2LONG and PEP. Realize that "it takes all kinds".

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>