Thanks, Mimi...

You didn't need redirecting, I was hoping that when I read your response, that it would somehow transpose onto my situation. Unfortunately, I don't think most of the specifics seem to fit.

I suppose that the right thing for me to do is reqroup on Plan A (the horse) and start trying to meet those EN's (again). I note that some of our fellow MB friends have said that Plan A while EA continues is doomed to failure. I'll leave that call to SH.


Your professional (and any other) comments, please?

Georgia

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

Meanwhile, on a lighter note.....

WW has called me 2X today, both times sounding more in touch with me than she has in a long time. Not that phony chipper stuff, but like she's really there in her senses.

I don't understand it. I cussed her out last night. First time I have ever done that. (If she was going to call the cops, shoulda' been last night).
Yes, I was really, really angry.

Today, it sounds like she's ready to feed me spaghetti again. Are all women this complicated?

I dunno, maybe it's the first time she's ever really realized that there is another live woman out there who is making a serious attempt on her man.

James Dean rides again!!

Georgia

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

Originally posted by mimi1254:
By the way, I'm of a different view on SF. Maybe it's my age... turning 50 on Saturday.

Happy freakin' birthday !!!

Alot of the time I do just like to do the F...word (I don't use that word out loud, really) and that's completely alright with my FWH!!

Ride 'em cowgirl !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My discussion with 2L references back to his W's (long ago)comment that being married (for the woman) is like being a prostitute ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I wonder if she told her daughter that when she announced her engagement ???

Pep

GG:

"Are all women this complicated?"

Yes, they are! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But not as complicated as finding ways 2 LOVE that about them! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep:

yes, she has, though not at that particular moment!

Ah, conflict avoidance. Yes2rday, while I was on top of a ladder "mudding" joints in the drywall I'd just put up, my W said one of her semi-usuals: "I think weddings are a waste of time."

I almost blurted "especially our own!", but didn't. I also almost asked her "do you think D is making a mistake?" per SS' suggestion a few months back, but I didn't.

I'm looking for the *I* statement/reply that I could/should use here. I think I have one, but I always come up with them long after the remark: "I get confused when you say things like that but you are so helpful, even seem excited, about our D's wedding plans. Do you believe she's making a mistake by marrying FSIL? Because you act in a supportive manner, but your remarks hurt."

whadaya think?

GG: Back 2 you.

-ol' 2long

You've earned her respect!! You are HER MAN!! Whatever is in the JAMES DEAN ATTRACTION is important here!!! Talk this over with Steve. I think it is important!!!! He will talk to you about ANYTHING!!!

I don't know how important the medical stuff really is at this point. I'll have to think on that for awhile. Because you see, even paraplegics are sexual. There are erogenous zones above the waist.

Does your WW have problems with walking?

I leave at 4:30 and then will check back in a couple of hours.

2Long - I'm sorry to say that I haven't followed enough of your situation to make a very good comment, but I'll give it a shot.

You said:I'm looking for the *I* statement/reply that I could/should use here. I think I have one, but I always come up with them long after the remark: "I get confused when you say things like that but you are so helpful, even seem excited, about our D's wedding plans. Do you believe she's making a mistake by marrying FSIL? Because you act in a supportive manner, but your remarks hurt."

Seems to me like your mixing 2 different subjects in your I statement. One is the ceremony and the other is the marriage. I would have proably tried to respond in a way to clarify which we were talking about.

i.e. - I am confused when you say weddings are a waste of time, because I don't understand if you mean the wedding ceremony of the marriage itself.

GG:

No, you got it pretty much right on.

That's a great suggestion.

-ol' 2long

Thanks, Mimi...

She is not having trouble walking, but is complaining A LOT about her shoes hurting her feet. This is not a "my feet are hurting from standing on them all day" comment.

She wears normal, good quality athletic shoes to school and she says they are killing her feet. She's trying to find some "open" shoes to wear, but difficult to do this with the winter months coming up.

I'm going to remove some of the comments from my previous post....please ask if you need clarification on those issues.

I don't know if I'll be back on tonight. I don't want to be guilty of ignoring WW for the computer when I'm home.

BTW - She now keeps the computer in the OFF state.

Thanks so much for your time & comments today.

Georgia.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Intercourse is frequently painful. She told me last night (during non-LB discussion) that she had been hiding from me for quite a while the amount of pain she's experienced during intercourse.

She has attempted to supplement intercourse occassionally with "other" techniques </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, this is not making sense to me. Are you saying that she still becomes aroused with the "other techniques"? If so, she is feeling sensations down there. Is she numb down there or is she experiencing pain or it varies? If she finds intercourse to be painful enough, I would think you know this. It's hard to figure out what's true for her and what's part of the foggy talk.

By the way,another complicating factor here... Don't blush!! Women, in menopause, especially those like your wife who do not take HRT absolutely need to use vaginal lubricant during intercourse. Without lubricant, intercourse could be very painful for her. With lubricant, a whole new world will open up for her again. This is the BIG M stuff, not due to any major medical condition.

Will check back with you later.

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi -


I believe she is being honest and telling me the truth about this.

Please be kind enough to edit this out after you read it.

Thanks -

Georgia

<small>[ November 30, 2004, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

I can't edit your post but you can. I think it will be imperative to ask Steve how he would recommend you getting her to a Dr. ASAP. I don't feel comfortable with using this forum to come up with a diagnosis. However, I am very much concerned about her health. I'm most concerned about her not being aware of what happened in the garden tub. It's good news that she is not having trouble actually walking.

I'm just reminding you. I know you know this. I don' think it's necessary to consult that PA about this, though. OK??

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

GG,
Read Mike C2's post under Emotional Needs entitled "The Cat." Made me think of your WW.

Good Morning,

I asked WW last night to tell me a little more about her foot pain. She said that right now it is mostly the #3 + #4 toes on her right foot, and right across "here" (a line lateral across the top of her foot about 1" back from the toes).

Has you suspected diagnosis changed due to this additional information? Which (type) doctor do you think it most urgent she see? OB/GYN, Rhematologist, PCP?

TNBelle - Thanks for the reference, there is some real parallels there that I can learn from.

Georgia

<small>[ November 30, 2004, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

I really think she needs to see a NEUROLOGIST. It sounds like some sort of neurological disorder. However, I would think that even her primary doctor would be alarmed if fully alerted to all of her symptoms.

Mimi-

I was thinking about that on the way to work this morning.

WW and I both use the same PCP office. By that, I mean there are about 5 locations around town (called "Center for Primary Care"), each with a staff of about 5 physicians.

We have both seen a physician (fairly young)that we both agree that we really like. He is not listed as our PCP, but our HMO covers us seeing any physician in this group, at any location.

Okay, let me try to put this together, I'm not being coherent.

I was thinking that maybe I should make an appointment with this Dr. myself and go in and just sit down and talk to him about what's going on. He has a very relaxed demeanor, always got time for you. Our listed PCP is quite rushed (actually, the guy who owns this whole operation).

Would you think that appropriate (IYO)? I will talk to SH about this, as I don't want to cross that "controlling" line, which may blur here.

If I do this, will you help me with your expertise by maybe writing a brief synopsis of what you believe to be the applicable observations as I've related to you (that would be pertinent to this issue)?

Other ideas will be welcome, but backing up a long way...we both agreed you can't force someone to the dr. office.

Georgia

<small>[ November 30, 2004, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

Georgia:

This speaks to the self-destructive nature of affairs. Steve H. is a strong believer in that. You see, my concern, is: What if this is a diagnosis for which timeliness in treatment is a factor? Do you sit around and allow (for want of a better word) your WW to be suicidal?

I don't want to alarm you. However,I would rather err on the side of being too cautious, since I can't possibly know all the facts, rather than being too lenient.

Ask Steve specifically about this. What if you are concerned that your spouse might have a life-threatening condition for which she is not seeking medical treatment? Her treatment of choice is the OM. PLEASE NOTE: I'm not saying this is the case but WHAT IF?

Your discussion with the PCP will give you more information but he would still need to examine and talk with your wife to really definitely answer your questions.

Take this up with Steve. Let us know what he has to say.

Thanks, Mimi ...

I'm glad my meeting with SH is today (12:30 EST). I'm back to kinda feeling overwhelmed about this whole thing.

There too much going on for me to be able to have any kind of coherent plan on my own. I'm glad now that I started with SH when I did. All of a sudden, it seems that the Big M, EA, Med, and MLC have just all got thrown into one big pot and stirred together.

I'll post my summary of SH comments, hopefully this afternoon.

Georgia

Good Afternoon -

I have just completed my second session with Steve Harley. The following is a summary of our discussion, and the plan that I will be following based upon his recommendations:

1. I will continue to make comments to WW to the effect that Steve would really like to talk with you to help him better understand my issues. This is to be totally framed in the context of what Steve is doing to help me better understand how I can meet WW's needs, and where I have failed in meeting those needs in the past. I need to try to get her in touch with Steve, something she has adamantly refused up to this point.

2. I will continue to discuss as an option for our marriage us both being happy together. I do not need to make the end of her EA a condition for this, but rather just that we will need to discover what it will take to make us both happy.

3. I need to contact her physician to discuss the various medical symptoms that I am observing and listen to any advice that he may have to offer.

4. I will contact her Rhuematologist to see if I can have her February appointment moved sooner. If there are appointments available sooner, I will advise her that I have checked on this (as I am concerned about her) and ask if she would like to take the earlier appointment. If she says no, I am to accept that. Expect confrontation over doing this, as she will see it as controlling but the medical implications are taking precedence over the "non-LB" issues right now.

5. I will contact my physician and ask about the appropriateness of AD's as my wife is having an affair. I will discuss my lack of sleep and difficulty concentrating.

6. Last, but not least... Plan B is now imminent. The sooner the better to protect the love that I have for her, which as of late has been more and more difficult to maintain given her actions. I must focus solely on the purpose of Plan B as to protect my love for her and avoid the pain she is causing me. No other reason can be given. As I suspect that WW will not be willing to leave our home, we will have an "in-house Plan B" (Steve's words). We must live as totally isolated from one another as possible, trying to not even be in the house at the same time. No verbal communication, no activities together. Our lives will be lived separately. I am to investigate the ramifications of a legal separation in Georgia.

I will advise her that we will speak again when we can look at options for our marriage and you not hurting me anymore.

I will be writing a Plan B letter and posting it on this thread for the comments of each of you. Once it is "fine tuned", I will send it to Steve for his review. I will meet with Steve again prior to implementing it, but the goal will be within 1-2 weeks max. This must be in place well before Christmas to avoid the appearance of trying to be controlling around the holiday.

Again, I appreciate the comments and prayers of each of you as this is quite difficult to manage. Thank you all for you showing of concern and support.

Georgia

WOW!!!!

Is the move to PLAN B because of the interaction with the PA?

Now you've got your GAME PLAN. You're in my prayers.

I will advise her that we will speak again when we can look at options for our marriage and you not hurting me anymore.

I LOVE the way this is worded.

So often times we, as the BS, will do anything to save the M, to the extent that we are willing to accept ALL resposbility for our WS's actions. I did that for months. "I should have known he was not happy" "I should have been a better wife" "If only I had ____ the boys would still have their dad" I even took it a step futher and felt that if only I had been a better wife my WH would not have fallen into temptation and he would not be suffering the consequneces of his own sin!

But as time goes by we begin to realize that although we know that we coulda/woulda/shoulda done better, we still can not take complete responsbility.

GG you are willing to take on the hard work needed to make things better. But she DOES need to stop hurting you. Plain and simple.

It seems like this is really the principle we all need to live by - we all need to quit hurting our spouses. Hurting them with our absence, or our words, or the lack of words. Whatever it is that causes us pain. Recognizing what it is that causes our spouse pain, and then taking steps to avoid it. We will never be 100% succesful but I hope to be a good 90% successful, the next time the Lord blesses me in a married relationship.

Off my soap box now.

Keep fighting the good fight.