Thanks star*fish and T/H for the comments.

On the phone issue, I'm probably going to go get another cell phone. Right now I'm using my company cell phone extensively for personal business.

WW sent me an e-mail from work this morning saying "I thought we were going to talk". That was it.

Thanks to all for the encouragement.

Georgia

Something I didn't think of yesterday is the fact that you don't have an intermediary. You need to figure out a way to filter out WW's "noise" yet ensure that when she's ready to work on the M you will get *that* message.

Chris thought you didn't provide a clear path home. It's in there, albeit a bit wordy:

I need to remove myself from this pain in order to preserve the love that I have left for you.

Beginning immediately, I will move into the upstairs portion of the house. I will have no contact with you. It hurts me too much....

<lots of stuff here>

Rebuilding our marriage will have to include rebuilding our mutual trust. I hope I am given that opportunity to help you trust me again. The foundation of my trust in you must include a life long commitment to never again contact OM and an open book policy with emails, cell phones, etc. Without these fundamentals our marriage cannot be strong.

I love you. I want you to remember that. Should you choose to try to rebuild a new marriage with me and stop causing me pain, we can discuss our future together.

So you've given her a path home.

She didn't "think you were going to talk" - you already have said what you need to say and your letter clearly says no contact until she's ready to give up OM, be an open book, and work on the M with you. Any talks with her at this point are going to be enabling behavior on your part.

Did you give her a copy of your Plan B letter after you read it to her?

Can you set up an intermediary and send a very short concise Plan B letter through that intermediary? I'm talking maybe five sentences. In it you could refer her to your original Plan B letter and ask that any correspondence go through the intermediary. Then you can block her email and phone numbers and not have to deal with her while she's so fogged.

Maybe something like:

Dear W,

I love you; my greatest desire is to have a strong M with you.
When you are ready to permanently cease contact with OM and work on our M, you can let me know via <intermediary>.
I refer you to the letter of December 6th in which I ask that you not contact me until these conditions are met. I am doing this in order to protect myself from further hurts and to preserve the love I still have for you.

GG

--

You might put in some other condition besides NC with OM. You might include attending MC with the Harleys, or that she present you with a plan of rebuilding. But keep it down to just that one sentence.

Can you get an intermediary?
Sorry, I didn't think of that yesterday in all the rush.

An excellent point, T/H. That was a definite oversight on my part, it should have been in there.

I think #1S is mature enough to handle that, and he has already volunteered that service. I like you're short, sweet letter. I can send it to her work e-mail address as a reply to her's this morning.

Thanks -

Georgia

Chris thought you didn't provide a clear path home. It's in there, albeit a bit wordy:
Yes, I did read what he wrote (it was in my reply).
But it seems almost like it was an afterthought.
It should be very, very clear about what needs to happen (the affair ending) and that he wants to reconcile and will resume contact when the affair ends. To me, it's pretty wishy washy about resuming contact.

I will move into the upstairs portion of the house.
She has access to all finances.
How is living in the same house and her having access to all finances in plan with Plan B?
Did you discuss all this with Steve Harley?

We have always shared everything in common
But you have never been in Plan B before.
Plan B is sharing NOTHING (you fulfill none of her needs), except when there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WW sent me an e-mail from work this morning saying "I thought we were going to talk". That was it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a test, to see if you are REALLY serious about the Plan B. You were VERY clear there would be NO talking.

I agree, send the short email spelling out communication will be with #1S from now on...

She wants to try to talk you out of it so she can keep on having her cake and eating it too...

GG,

I'd just keep quiet for a day, for a couple of reasons:

1. Let others chime in here on this board. You want to be sure that *if* you communicate with her it's the LAST time until she's ready to rebuild. You may decide not to communicate with her again at all.

2. You need to talk to your son and make sure he's good with being the intermediary. Discuss how he's going to react to her venom. Discuss what he will pass along to you and what he'll just delete. Discuss how he'll deal with being drawn into the drama. Discuss how he'll feel after having "picked sides." He may decide he doesn't want this job, after all.

But whatever you do, DO NOT reply to her email.
IF you communicate with her again, it should be through an intermediary.
Anything else is just telling your WW "Yeah, I said it but I didn't mean it. You go have fun now."

gg wrote;
I think #1S is mature enough to handle that, and he has already volunteered that service. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

turtelhead wrote;
2. You need to talk to your son and make sure he's good with being the intermediary
Absolutely, in no way should you allow your son to be an intermediary.
He is your son and he should not be between you and your spouse in any way.

Do the Harleys offer an intermediary service like SYMC does?

I agree, kids should not be put in the middle of this.

-ol' 2long

All -

Thanks for the comments this morning.

I went home at lunch to start the move, and WW's car was still in the garage. I closed the door back and left. A couple of minutes later, she rang my cell phone. I turned if off without answering.

I went back later and she had left. I started moving stuff upstairs and found that she had posted a 2 page letter on the door. I didn't read it, just took it down, folded it up, and slid it under the door to the room where she has taken up residence.

I think the best thing to do at this point is to have absolutely no contact whatsoever. She knows that the boys talk to me, and if she wants to urgently enough get me a message that I need to her, she knows how to do that.

BTW - It was SH that came up with the "in-house" plan-B as she will not leave the house (not yet, anyway). We didn't discuss finances.

Georgia

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I read her the letter. She told me about how much OM helped her understand herself, and how this is part of God's plan. WW said she could never do without OM as a friend, so no, she can't ever agree to that part of the letter.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG - This is going to be a very tough time on you emotionally. You are going to WANT to talk to her, for a multitude of reasons. But YOU established the "no talk" rule, so if you should break it you will simply establish that your "word" has no bond. You set the boundary and condition for talking at her agreement to give up all contact with the OM. Since women tend to form a greater emotional bond than men do, you have to 'hunker down' for the possible long haul here.

Her statement about how much OM helped her understand herself, and how this is part of God's plan, coupled with this is NOT the first time she has had and EA, leads me to believe that you are in this for the long haul. She is going to have to reach an understanding that God is NOT the author of sin and would NOT bring sin into a covenant that He is party to.

So, in the vernacular of MB...."fog talk." But you already know that.

I am also, like Chris, not too fond of the idea of your son being the intermediary. The intermediary should be someone who is not emotionally involved or invested with either of you. Your son can best "help" by standing on God's word whenever he speaks with "Mom." This is an issue, plain and simple, of obedience to God's commands.

"If you love me, obey my commands."

Understand that your wife may not "hit bottom" for some time. As such, Plan B is supposed to make her rely totally upon the OM to get all of her EN's met, and that includes financial needs. I can tell you from personal experience, that "dipping into the family funds" to support the affair is very common. So I urge you to establish a separate account and transfer the majority of the assets into that account. Plan B IS an ultimatum in addition to protecting you. Your spouse may not choose the way you are hoping, so you need to follow through on the letting the OM meet all of her needs.

Cakewalking time is over. Now the reality of choices needs to faced. It's going to be very stressful for both of you, so post here for support and "soul food" as you endure this time.

The time for support from your fellow believers is now. So gather a few trusted souls to help support you through this time. Let the love of Christ be seen for both you and your wife. The Son's light will pierce any darkness and expose sin for what it really is.

Then, be ready for Joint Christian Marital Counseling. There is going to be big need for guidance in understanding what God's commands are and how to submit in humble obedience. When this starts, you will find a huge new understanding begin to develop, and along with that, the creation of a new and better marriage, founded on Christ and Love.

GG, a part of you is going feel "good" about this Plan B decision and a part of you is going to feel tormented. It is not easy. But it does seem to be necessary, a form of "Tough Love," that stands on the God-given commands for marriage in Christ.

And remember, the OM "broke it off." Regardless of how many times you may have heard this, all is not well in "OM land."

God bless and grant you His peace and comfort during this time of tribulation and uncertainty.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I went back later and she had left. I started moving stuff upstairs and found that she had posted a 2 page letter on the door. I didn't read it, just took it down, folded it up, and slid it under the door to the room where she has taken up residence.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Personally, IMHO, you should read the letter. You need some information even though you are not talking to gage the effectiveness of your Plan B. If it's more "fogtalk," you know to continue. If it's "I will cease contact with OM," you know to begin the next step in healing.

God grant you His wisdom at this much needed time.

I LOVE this:
Well, it's only fair that God has a plan for you too isn't it? She's not the only one who gets a plan....and the interesting thing...is that YOUR plan is the one that's supported by His Word in the Bible.

Good stuff Starfish!

You are getting a lot of good thoughts here - I just have one more to throw out there. At some point this A will definitely go away. At some point you will need to have a plan in place for recovery - I know it is hard for you to see all that right now, but humor me for a moment. I would like to see you come up with a plan for recovery that includes some type of counseling with a Christian counselor, or bible instruction that helps her to learn how to truly seek Gods will, and understand Gods will. I know these are hard concepts for all of us to grasp at times - but the only way that I could see your M ever recovering is with her finally learning that just because something "feels good" right now - does not mean it has been brought into your life by God!

I am watching this play out with my WxH as well. A couple of months ago he told me that he just wants to sit back and do what ever God wants him to do with his life. Alarms went off in my head. I knew that he did not truly know how to seek Gods will for his life - at one point he thought OW must be in the plan or she would have never even crossed his path. forget the fact that their relationship went against Gods word, forget the fact that he does not read the bible, and only prays when things are really bad in his life.
So there I sat thinking to myself "he doesn't even know how to see Gods will in his life" and then I realized I wasn't even sure how I could explain it to anyone myself. Since then I have spent a lot of time thinking about this, praying, reading, etc. I believe I have a better understanding now, and I could back it up to someone if I were asked. Somehow, your WW needs to get that type of instruction. Not from you. That would be seen as too controlling. But somehow she needs to finally learn how to quit throwing out the "this is gods will" crap without being able to back it up. If she can't get to that point, then I would be truly concerned about her doing this again. (by the way - if the other EA was someone that God truly wanted her to be with - then how come this other man is also the one?)

Spend some time thinking, praying, perhaps talking to your pastor about how to give her the proper instruction and truly seeking Gods will. It is a scary subject. After all - what if I seek Gods will and it turns out that his plan is different than mine! But we serve an awesome God, and his plans for our lives are always so much better than anything we could ever even dream of.

I think this is a topic that deserves some serious consideration. As I was saying the other day - that line about "god wants me to be with this OP" has been spoken to so many of us. It is like a knife to the soul. Why would God allow this to happen to me? Why would he choose to put you in a new relationship, leaving me alone and lonely? We know the answer - God wouldn't do that. How do we back that up? The next argument they use is "Well, I was too young when I married you, God did not want me to marry you, but I did anyway, and now God wants me to be with this other person" I remember asking my WxH flat out - "are you telling me that you were supposed to be single until you were 42 years old, and finally met this woman?" and his answer was yes. He was supposed to remain single until he met her. He just didn't realize that 20 years ago when he met me. Then I said "If thats the case - then these 2 childern should not even be here. If you were supposed to wait until you were 42, then you would not have married me, and we would not have these 2 children. He had nothing to say to that. He suddenly had to get off the phone. (this conversation took place over a year ago by the way)

I sense that one of the obstacles for recovery, for you, is what would stop her from doing this again. She did it before. She still blames you for being too jealous. To simply say to her "I will not tolerate this happening again" would probably not be good enough. She needs to learn, and fully understand, why she can't start up a converasation with another man ever again. Why it is truly NOT ok to sit on the phone for hours with another man - regardless of whether or not he is married.

I am curious about one thing. Why can't she find a couple of close female friends to chat with?

Oops - it took me so long to post last time, that I missed your update with the 2 page letter from her.
You are stronger than me - I would have read it. But I suspect it would have been just the same old stuff. He understands me, we are just friends, I am trying to win him to Christ, blah blah. Probably best that you didn't read it, so you don't hear more hurtful comments like that. That sort of stuff, even when you know it is crap, or fog talk,and you know that some day she is going to say "did I really say that?" it is still a bad tape that is hard to erase from your memory. I am thinking it is best to protect your memory from those hurtfull words.

I would agree with the comments here that you are likely in this for the long haul. Simply because you do not need the "come back to me at any cost" routine. You need her to come back and be ready to do the hard work she needs to do.

GG - I do think she is capable of that. She can get to the place where she is ready to do the hard work - ready to actually build a good M with you. I know it is hard for you to see it right now. But I look at a woman who is bright, has been active in the church for years, raised Godly young men, and I know there is a good foudnation in there which can be built upon.

WOF + others....

I also liked star*fish’s comment. I can very comfortably say that OM hasn’t been revealed to me as part of God’s plan for my life.

The plan for recovery is something that I haven’t placed that much thought into yet. The one thing that I have thought is that joint counseling with SH would be a must. As far as local Christian counselors, I haven’t tried them all, but I’m not sure I want to attempt that anymore. There is too much at stake to keep “experimenting” with this. I do think there are issues that both WW and I would have to work on together if / when the recovery phase gets here. i.e. – What EN’s does she have that I am not meeting, and how can I meet those? Can she learn to guard where she “exposes” her EN’s to avoid this from happening again? This would be an appropriate conversation (the recovery plan) to have with SH on an upcoming session.

I understand what you are saying about discerning God’s will, and that is NOT an easy subject to conquer (at least for me). I think it important to note that SH was very conscientious in pointing out that anything that contradicts the Bible is not God’s will, period. He noted that if “God’s will” were to be determined by our feelings and emotions, that His will would be constantly changing. So (again, from SH), if our emotions are contrary to the Bible, then we can know for sure that we are out of His will.

However, as simple as this may sound to you and I, this is now a major issue in WW’s life. I was amazed to hear her tell #1S that the right / wrong of the Bible doesn’t apply to this situation, and God knows her heart. Incredible. WW is not some C.E. Christian (Christmas & Easter) who doesn’t know better.

This almost sounds like my WW and your WXH went to the same school of fog talk. I consistently hear that OM is part of God’s plan for her life or else He wouldn’t have brought them together. But, at the same time, I hear that marrying me (at age 20) was a mistake because: (choose one or more of the following):

I was too young to know what I was doing
I wanted to marry OBF but I was afraid he would never ask me to marry him
I wanted to get away from home and you were the only way that would happen
I didn’t love you but I knew you would be a good provider
We had become too “involved” so I could never marry anyone else
You had betrayed me by continuing to date your OGF after we started dating
I have been miserable since the day I married you
Etc.

But, nowhere do you find “I know that God brought us together as H + W, and blessed us with a wonderful family, and gave us many, many years of happiness together. So, therefore, God must have been instrumental in our marriage”. No, somehow that never comes out....but let WACKO OM show up on the internet and it’s all part of God’s plan. (I’m pounding the keyboard now....) Oh well, off that soapbox.

But anyway, SH will be instrumental in the recovery plan.

On the female friend issue. WW indeed does not have any close female friends. She says that she can’t trust women (sorry, WOF and others...), and that she relates better to men. I would LOVE to see her have a night, weekend, week, whatever out with “the girls” to just have a good (clean) time together. But I can’t make her.

I’m not sorry I didn’t read the letter. No point in it right now.

Okay, to summarize.... I know the kind of woman that resides way down deep inside, and I still love that woman. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen her in quite a while. I don’t know if Plan B is going to get her to peek back out or not. It may very well drive her to Canada before this is over....but I had rather that than to continue the status quo.

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

Georgia

gg:

"This almost sounds like my WW and your WXH went to the same school of fog talk."

"Fog-latin" may be a universal language, but the vocabulary is EXTREMELY limited.

My FWW said all the same things yours is.

best,
-ol' 2long

To all -

WW is not taking real well to the "in-house" Plan B idea. I got home last night about 10:00 and was verbally assaulted for messing up the upstairs bathroom, which she had clean in case we had guests (not likely right now). Finally got away from her and got to my bedroom for some peace and quiet. I was going to post here, but she had unplugged my wireless router downstairs.

This morning, more of the same. Verbally assaulted about the bathroom while I was getting dressed. So far, no LB on my part...but I hope she can stop this pretty soon or I may have to determine what it will take to make a more significant legal separation.

She is definitely feeling the weight of the A, and she isn't liking it a bit. Cursed me a bit for good measure last night.

Georgia

Hey there, Georgia Guy!

Okay, so I've been wanting to use that phrase all my life...

I have been following your thread and want you to know I very much needed your candor and effort in my life. There are many reflective surfaces between our marriages and sharing your story has been very valuable to me.

Taking those similarities to heart, I wanted to let you know about the book, "Dance with Anger." I'm just reading it now. I've been studying MB for two months and have stopped my LB's, and worked on my own Plan A/B, etc. I believe this book is essential to making a new marriage and may have positive impact on your current situation. I'm sure the long-time MBers know all about this relationship book. If any of the moderators read this, do you think it's a good standard to recommend to everyone, or am I just caught up in the relief I'm as common as dirt? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Georgia Guy:
<strong> I was going to post here, but she had unplugged my wireless router downstairs.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can get around this by arranging for internet service at a neighbors house and moving the router over there. If your houses are fairly close together, this should work fine.

-AD

Good Morning to all -

Thanks for chiming in LovingAnyway. I've heard of the book, but I've not read it. I'll see if I can find it.

I got home about 8:30 last night (went to another local church for Bible Study) and WW was not there. She didn't come in until about midnight, and then I didn't hear anything from her. I didn't see her this morning, she was still in bed. Much better !!

On the internet issue, I couldn't get on line again last night on either computer. Either freak timing or the internet service has been disabled. Tried to call the cable compnay but their line was busy.

So.....it is possible that this "in-house" plan B may have a chance after all. Not much new to report, but a peaceful night's sleep.

Georgia

GG,

I'm glad you can see her anger and fits as evidence that she's not liking the situation SHE put herself in.

It sounds like you're doing a great job of not getting sucked into her tantrums. Remember that she is ranting against her own decisions, but displacing onto you. She knows how to fix this. She has a path home. She just needs some time for it to all sink in. She has all the power to change her situation if she doesn't like it. For now, she's thinking you did this to her and she's venting at you. She will eventually realize her ugly behavior does not get rewarded, and she will calm down and think about what she really wants to do.

Good job on avoiding LBs. This is crucial for you right now. Any LB on your part will fuel her self-talk about how hateful you are. Stay the course.