Uhhhh......2Long -

You may wish to refer to Mimi's post on this thread (posted January 11, 2005 03:19 PM) and find a way to retract the "goofy chick" comment!!

Georgia

GG,

For your information, I don't do skirts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And if Mimi really does look like J. Lo. 2L's comments will NOT phase her abit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have been reading your threads for a long time. Never felt I had anything to really offer and I don't today. Just a question. Do have a plan to do a full out plan B at some time?? You are right if your W went to live with OM, the A would likely end soon.

Just another question, have you really shown your W anger with regard to this situation??? Sometimes a good and proper display of anger can really be a surprise and very unsettling to a WS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You might want to consider it when she tries to engage you. So how good an actor are you? Can you do the low simmering squint eye anger? You know no raised voice, but an air of malevolence (sp). Can you do the high octane,load anger?

I have observed here that the WS often think they know and fully understand the BS, it is called disrespectful judgement, DJ, by the way. An abrupt and singular event can often upset that confidence a bit. If you get my drift?

By the way, I have spent years living in Charleston it is a charming place to visit.

Must go, but think about it.

God Bless,

JL (without any skirts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

When he did anger, she called 911. This WW would just love for Georgia to show anger at this point.

HE HAS TO STAY DARK!!!!

GEORGIA:

How are you today? Didn't hear about the pottery class?

I'm a perfectionistic like J. LO in the Wedding Planner. There are certain ways in which I look like her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I do sing well but I don't act. I do neither as a profession. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 12, 2005, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Enchantedlady -

I really, really like that name a lot better. I had a hard time forcing myself to type the other one.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I was feeling that way it didn't bother me but over the last month it did, I needed something more positive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good afternoon to all -

I will update more tonight. My boss is here today and tomorrow (first time he has EVER been here), so I'm staying occupied with him all day. He's a native LA guy who needs to see some Southern culture, so I'm having to try to get him cultured in only 2 days. Not easy after having been immersed in California all your life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I will say this. The pottery class was absolutely, positively wonderful. Most fun I've had since I was 5 years old. I'll give more details later tonight after church.

Enchantedlady - glad to hear you're not feeling that way anymore.

Georgia

GG:

"He's a native LA guy who needs to see some Southern culture, so I'm having to try to get him cultured in only 2 days. Not easy after having been immersed in California all your life."

Not having any cul2re is the price we SoCalifornians pay for not having an accent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Mimi: Okay, if you look anything like J Lo (but not Jay Leno) in the Wedding Planner, I know you're not a goofy chick - because you have a MIND 2 go with the looks!

I bet you could sing and act accordingly, if it ever struck your fancy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

GG,

I've heard other therapists say this before -

"Then she said that her B (my BIL) told her that she shouldn't call SH as we should see a MC that neither of us had ever seen before. I told her that no matter what BIL said, SH is the only counselor I will be talking to."

Seems to be a guiding principle, however.....since you've seen SH for MC not IC, I wonder if it makes a difference. I'm sure SH has faced this before with other clients, and I'm curious what his response would be.

In my situation, I went to my H's IC with him one time for a MC discussion...believe me their pre-established relationship was a roadblock to her being able to help us with the MC issue. She absolutely couldn't see my perspective and "defended" my H from me every chance she got. She was clearly biased and unable to be objective. We never went back.

Most therapists won't attempt to see a couple in MC if they've seen one person in IC.

Sorry, 2Long - I can't give you a pass on either count:

1. I am indigenous to FL, not GA. So...I don't have one of those "YA'LL" drawls, either.

2. I don't think Mimi should let you off that easy with just a lame compliment. Besides, she's already got a full-time job. She stands on a marble pedestal (corinthian, I think).

All right, I'm sorry. I'll quit with the bantering. In all actuality, I like LA. Our company has a facility there and I've had to go there a couple of times. The Getty Art Museum on that mountaintop is well worth the price of admission (it's free) and probably the best art museum I've ever seen. (Of course, what does a GA guy know about art, right?).

Okay, more serious stuff reserved for tonight when I get home, including CSue response.

Georgia

Good evening to all -

Okay, where to start?

A couple of quick responses. To J.L. (not J.Lo., or Jay Leno)...trust me, we've had enough anger to last a lifetime. No more anger (if I can help it, anyway).

CSue - There is certainly merit in what you say, but I've been to 2 local counselors. Never having been to anyone like this before, I assumed them all to be this way. They were useless. SH gets right to the heart of the matter and makes sense. These other folks seem to have their own form of fog-babble, and never get anywhere doing it. It's SH or no one for me. The last thing I would want is to walk into some MC office with WW at my side and begin some non-sense discussion about my childhood or whatever.

Now...about the pottery class. That is great! The guy who owns the gallery is so nice and patient. Probably in his late 50's. There is about 10 of us in the class, from beginners (like me) to advanced. He just kind of walks around and helps each person individually and offers his "suggestions" on how to do whatever we're working on. We all sit around a big rectangular table and work. By the end of the evening (2 hour class), we were kinda all bonding with each other. It was very nice....peaceful music playing, we all were from diverse backgrounds and just really did a lot of foolish clowing around. And....I MADE A POT!!!!!! After it's fired, I will auction it to the highest MB bidder. (NO RESERVE). Yes, I love it. Can't wait until next week.

Tonight, I attended the pastor's Bible study at the church I have started attending. It was nice, and I met #2S/DIL for dinner after church. They were freshly back from IL's house and came bearing gifts. We had a nice dinner together. S said that MIL seems really depressed and cried a lot. Kept saying "I just wish WW would snap out of it". I think I'll go over one weekend soon and visit with them. Don't know that I can be of much encouragement, but I'll let them know I still love them.

I worked out last night and saw one of my former SS colleagues at the gym. She and I talked and she said she had been missing me. This was tough, I have really loved this lady a lot (as a friend). The last time I saw her (early December), her mother was dying of cancer. Me and WW had gone to the hospital to see her and we prayed with her. Last night I asked my friend about her Mom and she told me she died before Christmas (then she started crying). I had to tell her that I was sorry I didn't know, that I was attending another church now and I'd not been in touch with WW. She said that she didn't know and she was so sorry...she said to call anytime and we could talk. (Trust me here folks...proper Christian relationship with her and her H). I thanked her and told her how much I had enjoyed meeting her Mom, how kind she was to us the night we visited her.

Okay, I've got to admit it. Loss of my friends is hitting me really hard. I love a lot of these folks, and now I never see them. This is the pits. The last time I saw "Ann" she said that even though she knew her mother's fate (as she is a nurse), for me to please pray for a miracle. I cried with her in our church foyer when she said that to me that night (early December). Then to see her last night and not even know her mother had died really, really hurt a lot.

Anyway....that's the way it goes in the life of GG. Visit with boss is going well but intense, will be even more so tomorrow. He and I are having dinner tomorrow night. Gotta take him some place Southern and get him some fried chicken, okra, black-eyed peas, greens, cornbread, peach coppler, and of course.....his own personal favorite...sweet tea.

Good evening to all...

Georgia

<small>[ January 12, 2005, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

GG,

I think you misunderstood what I was saying, probably becasue I didn't word it well -

I agree that SH is the only way to go for counseling. And I believe he has the answer to the issue of you being in counseling with him, and adding your wife as a client without disruption. Reason I brought it up is that I expect you will have it thrown in your face by WW, as her reason for not ever coaching with SH.

It's why I think you should mention it to SH next time you speak to him so he can tell you what the proper response is. I just have a feeling that WW will use it as a somewhat valid roadblock to coaching with SH.

MCs are one of SH's pet peeves....so many are not pro-marriage, or if they are, aren't adequate in training. It's why I insisted on coaching with SH as a condition to attempting recovery in my own marriage. I'm relieved that my husband agreed right away without a fight. It was part of him doing what he said "whatever it takes to restore your faith in me and rebuild our marriage".

Glad you're enjoying the pottery class...sounds like a slice of heaven!!

I don't understand why you've had to lose contact with important friends, as a result of the affair?

Good Morning, CSue and all -

Thank you for your comments on the MC issue. I will mention this to SH the next time we talk.

On the subject of friends. Our closest friends have been those in our SS class. There has been limited involvement with most of these (like "Ann") outside of class. She and her H have had some class dinners at their house and things like that, but most activities have centered around SS. Of course, I'm no longer a part of that, WW is. My closest friend, also in that class, I have kept contact with and still see him. However, we've been very good friends as "couples", not individuals. When I've seen his W, she has seen very cool (friendly, but aloof). In the past, we've (all 4 of us) joked about being thrown out of restaurants because we'd get so loud and obnoxious laughing with each other. So...long answer (sorry), that's basically the loss of the "friends" issue.

Have any suggestions on how it can be otherwise?

Georgia

<small>[ January 13, 2005, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you're the Plan B czar, but I still question if this isn't going to drive her to join OM. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG - She already has "joined" the OM. What you are doing is NOT "going to drive her to join OM." This question is typical (I had it and most have had it) because it's based in fear, not reality.

However, I also feel the need to offer a caution for you to consider. I've been "hearing" more and more hardness and disrespect for your wife in your comments. It's easy to vilify the WS because their actions do cause hurt. But, you profess love for her, she is a Christian, and she is caught up in a misapplication of Godly principles to "spread the Good News." She is not the first, nor sadly will she be the last, to fall prey to Satan's twisting of biblical truth.

But, neither should you fall prey either. She is your wife. YOU have chosen this path rather than divorce. You have chosen to endure the obvious and real pain and to "do what is necessary to lovingly help her from her sin."

GG, she is in a foggy state. But you said that the OM has stopped most communication. While that's good, it's NOT "ended it all." That is NOT "he feels remorse and has confessed to Jesus Christ." That's not going to happen (he's a Muslim).

GG, HOW do you plan to "lead your wife back" to a walk with Christ? What you are doing now is destabilizing the affair, standing up for your rights as a husband, protecting yourself from enabling her affair. But what (and when) will you do when she asks, however softly or faintly at first, for your help?

You want an agreement for NC as the "trigger?" Fine. You want an agreement to counsel with SH as the "trigger?" Fine. But WHAT is the trigger and what IS your plan to "love her back to you and to Christ?"

WHO, in your absence, is discussing Scripture with your wife regarding her behavior and her refusal to obey God's commands because "she knows better than God what God wants her to do?"

GG, your wife is a Christian. All the other things are secondary to this. I wonder, as I have before, what would have happened to us if our bridegroom went "incommunicado" with us because we "refused to give up our sinful pursuits," rather than submitting to the Father's will and going through the pain and to the Cross for us.

Your fight is NOT for your marriage, it is for the soul of one whom you love, regardless of "what's in it for you." A recovered marriage WILL be the result of her being brought back into fellowship with, and obedience to, God.

But who will do the leading?

Good Morning:

On the subject of friends... another sad reality about affairs. We no longer will have a life as we once knew it. Everything about your life has changed now.

The fact that your WW is having an A, the fact that you are in PLAN B, etc. will have an effect on your relationships with friends who want you two to remain the same. This will affect your old relationships for numerous reasons. Some couples having problems of their own will have to take a look at themselves. Some of your friends are having secret affairs, etc.

I think you are doing the best thing, GG. So many folks from your past will not understand what is going on with you and it will take too much of your energy to explain it to them right now.

One of the best things about this for me has been the new friendships that I have developed. Also I've learned who my real friends were. They have stuck with me. Some folks whom I thought were friends I haven't heard from, for many varied reasons.

You have lots of opportunities to develop new friendships in your pottery class and at your new church. View that as a positive outcome!!! I've found it helpful to focus on the positive in the midst of all the negative aspects of this tragedy for us.

I think it is VERY important for you to expose this A to your friends at church. I know you haven't out of respect for her and what she would have to live up to or down after the A is over, but a BIG part of Plan A is exposure.

Without exposure to your friends you are denying your M the light of day that telling the truth comes to from exposure. You are also denying yourself the support your frineds can be to you right now. But most importantly, you are denying yourself the prayers your friends would GLADLY offer up for you...allow them to.

Another thought, if you don't tell your friends, and they find out anyway (and they will) how will they feel that you kept this big event from them? That you don't trust them? That they aren't really THAT good of friends?

Good afternoon, all -

I know that exposure to friends at church is the right thing to do. I also know that I've not done it as I prefer for WW to stay involved in the SS and other church activities. Of course, the staff and now the SS teacher know, as well as the couple who were our best friends.

I suppose that my way of dealing with some of the issues FH raises has to do with my desire to see her at least stay involved in our church. May be a poor excuse, but that's the one I'm going to use right now.

I do regret that when I was talking to "Ann" that I didn't just tell her. I suspect that many people may assume (or at least suspect) that I've gone the way of many middle-aged men and just ran off with some young girl.

Oh well, that's my thoughts for now. Back to meetings.

Georgia

Okay, I know that you'll all enjoy this story.

The boss and I went out for a very nice dinner tonight. Ended up sitting in the restaurant until very late. We had saturated work conversation and turned to talking about our relationship woes (he knows everything). So...I got home really late. WW was in bed when I got home. In my bathroom, on the vanity, is a big slice of home make red-velvet cake, which happens to be my favorite cake. Do you know how hard it is to leave that cake just sitting there?

But...I did it. Didn't see anything of WW, but perhaps she's getting tired of eating the cake and is ready to share some with me??

Georgia

gg:

We hope for the day when you can report that you came home and there were the shredded remnants of that fence in a smoldering pile waiting 2 greet you on your re2rn.

That had 2 be hard. Manly [[[GG]]] for you!

-ol' 2long

Good Morning, 2Long and others...

Thanks for the comment, 2Long. I'm taking the cake with (very) guarded optimism.

I have decided to go visit IL's tonight if they are going to be home. I've not called them yet, but I've got a bag packed for overnight. If they're home, I'll drive over after work and come back tomorrow night. I think a brief visit would be good for both of us right now.

Georgia

Wow, what a great symbol for what is going on in your R. Your WW doesn't want to stop eating cake, she wants you to join in. Life was much better when she was cake eating...for how long?

I'm very sarcastic (caustic) and I would have put a nice note on the slice that read "Save this for the OM". But it's better to be dark, than to LB.

You are doing SO WELL.

It may be time to talk with her soon about her moving out though...it's time you turn up the consequences a notch? What has SH been saying?

Georgia:

The cake is nice but you are so busted!

HOW DID SHE GET INTO YOUR BATHROOM?

OK. Maybe this is part of your area that can't be locked up. OK. You're out of trouble if this is the case.