SHMI -

I know that she will not move out and I can't legally force her to do so. I've not talked to SH in a few weeks, but I am following his plan.

As far as how long...first OM was for about 2 years, then a 1 year break when all was well, then current OM has been about 1 1/2 years.

Mimi -

Jumping to conclusions today, are we? The bathroom is off the upstairs landing, not in "my room". The bathroom is unlockable with just the interior door knobs, I've seen no reason to change those locks. I leave NOTHING of mine in the bathroom when I'm not home, including toiletries.

My room continues to stay locked at all times.

I'll accept your apology! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Georgia

Edit - I would like about 10 minutes of your time today if possible for a conversation. If we can fit it in, it not, then Monday. I've still got my visitor today so my schedule isn't so flexible.

<small>[ January 14, 2005, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

GG,

SH would love the "cake" story. The irony of it all. Here she is trying to make deposits in your LB using your favorite cake!

The good news is that she's trying something...but she's way wrong - I don't recall you mentioning cake in your plan b letter!

She's attempting to see what works and doesn't work. She has no clue.

It's a small example of the MB principle of NEEDING to know what your spouse's most important ENs are so you don't waste time filling needs that aren't important to that person. You were smart to respond the way you did. Keep it up GG! I think this is progress, however small.

I'm glad you're going to you inlaws. It will be good for all of you! CSue

I know, you are following SH's plan, and I'm glad he suggested it, for any reason than it spoke to the naysayers that said you could NOT do an in-house Plan B.

I did a modified Plan B also. FWH moved out to an apt but was a SAHD, so he arrived every morning as I left for work and stayed with the kids all day, then when I came home, so did he... So he got his *HOME* fix, was able to take a shower, watch cable, etc. But it worked out for us. The Plan B letter was absolutely VITAL for us, and I postponed writing a clear one (OK, I wrote one in the beginning, but it was too vague). After a few weeks of Plan B I wrote a clearer one, with bullet points, and 5 things I expected from him. He got angry, yelled that I was trying to control him. I calmly expalined this is what I needed for a M to happen between us. It was HIS choice whether he did these things or not, and whatever HIS decision I was prepared to deal with HIS choice. I was prepared to live alone, or work on the M. I had NO CONTROL over him, but I could tell him what I expected. He fumed over it for about 10 minutes, I left for work, he followed me out to my car and said he would do it. It was another month and a half before he moved back in...before he proved to me those things had happened. What did I ask for? 1. NC with OW (with a NC letter) 2. Work with Dr. on taking meds (he'd been battling depression, and one of his excuses for starting the A) 3. Counseling, either IC or MC 4. Accountable for time and money 5. Honesty

The last two were a bit hard to implement, and we've had to REALLY clarify what these meant. Of course after the first 3 were put in place it was easier to ask him to come back, and the last 2 are just ongoing...

So, I was VERY clear in my letter to my H, and had to rewrite in mid Plan B, that's why I suggested reiterating it again. They hear with a different ear after a while. She may be more ready to hear it. If she is reaching out, then she is trying to find a way to come back...give her a CLEAR path.

My suggestion about moving out comes from my experience on the board and my own experience. MAny a WS is more than eager to get out of hte house...to give up everything so they can be happy (blaming you for everything, only to find out that unhappiness goes with them). Going out on their own gives the WS a GREAT dose of reality like an in-home Plan B never could. It shows them in stark reality what life would REALLY be like without you. RIght now she is getting at leas t alittle bit of her needs met by realizing you are in the house incase of burglars, or are there if anything happens to her...

What could a conversation sound like?

"WS, can we talk tonight?"

That night she will be expecting you to cave...
start with "You are not happy with this situation, and neither am I. Have you thought about getting a place of your own?" If the answer is yes, you both can work out the details, give her a date to move out, etc. If no, then ask her what her intentions for the future are, if she plans to continue this, or if she has thought of a separation or D. This will up the stakes but not a bluff or a ploy. This will enable you to get a feel for what she is planning.
Keep the conversation on topic and brief...if she has no plan (she probably doesn't), ask her if she could start thinking about one, and let you know when she has one...then leave the conversation. Or, could you drop her a note asking her these questions? OR use a go-between to ask her these questions?

It is getting time to push her to make up her mind...she may be stubborn enough to continue this for awhile...

SHMI -

It has been less than a week since I have confronted her very directly about the Plan B letter. She started trying to turn it into a conversation, I asked her whether or not she had ended her R with OM. She has not.

She told me she did not intent to contact SH.

Therefore, I told her we had nothing to talk about, and per my Plan B letter, I was continuing to plan my life without her. She has been very, very clearly reminded of what it takes.

The cake is trying to get me to cave, she knows exactly what she is doing. In the last week or so coffee and spaghetti have been offered as well.

I am sure that she WILL NOT move out on her own. Aditionally, I have used the D word with her very directly. I have pulled no punches since Plan B and she has gotten nothing but a consistent message (I think).

Right after the letter, she asked me something to the effect of if I had thought through where this could end up. I very, very bluntly said "yes, we may end up divorced".

In case there is anyone who hasn't figured this out by now, WW is very, very stubborn and always has been. She is very used to getting her way, and has a number of controlling tendencies. I, on the other hand, have walked through life avoiding conflict by whatever means necessary. Therefore, (my assessment) she is really taken off guard by having to face the stark reality of her own actions. She's not used to this.

So...summary is I expect this to continue for a while. I suspect that if there isn't some resolution before her next block of time out of school (perhaps spring break?), she will go to be with OM.

Thanks for all of your comments. I think the in-house Plan B is having a great effect. Coaching by you all has helped me a lot. Thank you all for taking the time to do so.

Georgia

P.S. I can still see that big slice of red velvet cake. I'm going to find some for dinner somewhere tonight.

<small>[ January 14, 2005, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

GG,

Your WW has been in an A other than this one? Was that one an EA?

If you've been a conflict avoider and your like this now, your WW must be surprised!! Keep up the good work!!

Enchantedlady -

She had an EA that lasted about 2 years with OM at our church. It ended when OM went to the church staff and blew the whistle because, as he said, he was tired of her trying to control him like she was his wife.

BTW - I have made contact with IL's and they are excited to have me coming tonight.

Georgia

MIMI - Please let me know when you are there for a moment.

<small>[ January 14, 2005, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

Sorry about jumping to conclusions! I've been busy lately.

I'll be here until 4:30PM EST. Easier to reach today than Monday.

<small>[ January 14, 2005, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

OK! All is Well!

To all -

I will be leaving directly from work to go to IL's house. Unless I pass a place with a WiFi hot spot, I will not have internet access until at least late Saturday night.

Thanks for the encouragement today. Sometime the weight seems greater, and today has been one of those days.

Georgia

Good (very early) morning to all -

I'll post more later today on the visit with my IL's.

But, tonight when I got home, WW was already in bed. I went upstairs and the door knob has been broken off of my door (probably using a hammer). I'm in, and I've got a garbage can in front of the door to make noise in case she comes in, but I'm beginning to question whether she might be capable of violence.

Georgia

Okay, a little more detail on the IL situation.

I talked a lot with the IL's yesterday before I left to come back home. I got there late Friday night so we didn't talk much then.

It is obvious that they still love me very much, and harbor no hard feelings toward me about this whole thing. MIL told me that WW has never said anything bad about me, and that is still true. When she (MIL) asked her why she is doing this, she just says "Georgia doesn't meet my needs".

They did tell me that WW saw her doctor this past week. He has prescribed Paxil (in the past, she has had it but quit taking it) and recommended HRT, but she still refuses the HRT.

Also, there is some indication of cysts on her remaining ovary and she has a follow-up visit scheduled soon. I don't know if it is for a MRI (is that appropriate?) or what. FIL said they would come over and stay with her should she need surgery. Last time it was done with laproscopy (sp?) as outpatient. I don't know any more details at this point.

BTW - I've not seen her today. I stopped by Lowes' on the way home from church / lunch and bought a new door knob, which I've now replaced.

IL's are really despondent over the whole mess. Apologized over and over, said they would have never believed their D would have done such a thing. I hadn't really realized they haven't spoken to my parents since exposure, MIL said she was too ashamed. I told her I wish she would call as I know they would like to hear from her. They have always been good friends. I talked to #1S on the way home last night and he called my mom. He asked her to call MIL, which she did (she'll do anything for the gk's). I understand they had a good conversation together, so at least we've got that R back on track.

So...on with the show. IL's want to come over and stay at our house soon. I told them they are always welcome, to come anytime. Normally, they bring their motorhome and stay in a local RV park, but this time they want to stay here.

Things are going well at my "new" church. I find some things they do a bit wacky being a different denomination than I, but I'm sure visitors found my church a bit odd too. Overall, it is a very mission-oriented church and I am impressed. It does me good to see Christians outside of my normal circle of influence doing great things. Actually, I think they are a lot more active in many ways than "my" church. I have made a dinner reservation for Wednesday night. WW and I always ate Wednesday night dinner together with friends at our church. This is going to be awkward, going in to have dinner where I know no one. But....new friends must be made, and if I don't take the initiative it'll never get done. They have a gym, but no workout room. If I decide to move my membership, I've got to meet with my pastor to see if I can continue to use the gym at the current church.

Another item of interest. Even though I'm losing weight (27 pounds in last year), working out 3-4X a week, and trying to eat right, I seem to be developing health issues. Already on Norvasc for BP, now I'm on Lipitor as well. I got my blood test results Thursday. Tryglycerides (sp? again) was 372, HDL 30, LDL 88. Knowing that none of you health professionals will dispense specific medical advice, can anyone offer any general suggestions that would be wise for anyone to follow? I'm really beginning to take this seriously, I'm normally in excellent health.

Okay, enough from me right now. Thanks to all for the posts.

Georgia

<small>[ January 16, 2005, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Georgia Guy ]</small>

GG,

Red Yeast Rice is a supplement that is helpful for cholesterol, my Dr. told me to try that before going on meds and it worked. What types of food are you eating? Keep track of that and maybe see a nutritionist.

Also you might want to have your hormones tested, if things are out of whack our health goes down hill.

WS could also go on Natural hormones she might not need to be on an antidepressant then. She can find a Dr. that deals with bioidentical hormones and try it out might also help with the cyst thing? If you haven't noticed I'm one of those that does everything natural first. That's why I'm going to be going to school within the next year to be a naturopathic dr.

Good Afternoon to all -

It's been awhile since I've had one of these days, but it is such a confusing feeling. WW and I have always (I thought)been so close that we've always discussed anything that was an issue in our lives with each other. We've been each others best friend for almost 3 decades.

I keep having this overwhelming desire to go home and talk to her, to tell her about the pain I'm going through and let her share with me her wisdom of how it's going to be okay, how we can work through it together because we're one. That's the way it's always been. We face all of our challenges together.

But then I come back to reality. She's not there anymore...I no longer have a W that I can talk to when I'm hurting. Not only that...but the paradox is that she's the one that's causing the pain. It just seems so unreal (surreal, even) at times. How did we ever get to this point? (rhetorical).

Okay, I'm done. Just a vent from Georiga today, nothing you folks can do about it.

Georgia

I agree, feel exactly the same way how did we get here.

Following your thread in exactly same position with WH

Lurking more than posting

Your resiliance is very encouraging.

Keep it up

OH, GEORGIA!!!

I'm so sorry for the pain you are feeling. I certainly can recall those days that you are going through.

You are doing all that you can do. I really believe that if you hang in there and don't give in that there will be a breakthrough with her. This system is the best chance that you have for your marriage. On some level, deep down inside of her, your WW is feeling your same feelings. OM in no way has the emotional connections with her that you do and she is missing you. Let her feel the pain and miss you even more....

Maybe you should reconsider the antidepressants. They will help you with your mood and help you feel more uplifted and hopeful. With the mind/body connection, stress will take its toll on your health and the ADs may help. Keep exercising everyday. Get a heart monitor to insure that you are getting your heartrate up enough. That helps with the blood pressure and cholesterol level. Not eating too much fast food, right?

Sorry. I have to go now. Will have more time later on or tomorrow.

DYINGHERE:

Why are you only lurking? It's not OK to not let me/or the rest of us not know how you are doing once we have let you into our hearts.

Your WH was work games on your mind, DYING, if you do not post. I went through that too.

Good Morning Mimi and all -

I have considered reintroducing the Lexapro, I'm going to give it a few days to see how my mood goes before I do. I don't mind taking meds, but I don't like being DEPENDENT on them.

I hardly eat any fast food. When I stared working out about 1.5 years ago, I weighed 229 (I'm 5'11"). I was 201 before Christmas, now back up to 204.

Sample diet yesterday:

b'fast - whole wheat toast (with real butter), OJ

lunch - fried okra, mashed potatoes, collards, cornbread, brownie, sweet tea. (Mom's house).

dinner - ribeye steak, baked potato, roll, ice cream, water. (steakhouse)

However, I've got to admit that our diabolical coffee service has been puttting out packs of Swiss Miss hot chocolate mix, and I've started drowing my sorries with hot chocolate. Two cups yesterday, maybe I'd better cut that out.

Enchanted - Due to the Plan B, WW is solely taking care of her med issues without input from me. I would hope that her dr. would discuss all options with her.

Incredibly enough, the red velvet cake is still sitting in my bathroom. I guess I'm going to have to take it back to the kitchen. It's almost now like she's Plan B'ing me. Many times when I come in, the computer screen saver isn't on, meaning that she was just sitting at the computer before I walked in. I don't mind this at all really.

As you may recall, at first she was keeping the house so nice and inviting. Soft music, etc. That is now over. When I come in, there is no sign of life, everything is dark and quiet. She isn't even openning the blinds. To me, that makes the house feel like a dungeon. I have always opened the blinds first thing in the morning because I like to have as much sun in the house as possible.

Okay, enough for now. That's where things stand right now.

Dyinghere - I agree with Mimi....come out of hiding and share with us. I would like to know that I'm in good company in this sordid mess.

Georgia

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It ended when OM went to the church staff and blew the whistle because, as he said, he was tired of her trying to control him like she was his wife. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG - This is at the root of the problem, and your wife is blind to it. It's probably going to need the intervention of some outside believer, who is truly involved in missions work to get her to see this. The point, very simply is, someone who is functioning as a missionary (your wife's avowed purpose for her involvement with the Muslim OM) CANNOT have a controlling mindset. To do so puts them in the place of God. All that the missionary is is a "tool" of God to be used by God as God sees fit, not as the individual sees fit.

Couple this with her lack of personal Standards, much less biblical standards for a wife, and she is way to vulnerable for interactions with men other than her husband. She should NOT be in any direct missions work, plain and simple.

GG, you said that the church she attends is unaware of her involvement with the OM and/or her rebellion in your marriage to performing her GOD COMMANDED role as your wife. She is refusing to submit her will to God's will and is refusing to respect and obey you as God's spiritual head of your household. It is time to implement Matthew 18:15-20. The leader(s) in the chuch need to be involved and informed (at least the do IF they believe in obedience to God's Word).

God bless.

Hey, GG. Have yo considered going to a dietitian? They can help with setting up a good diet. One this I noticed in your sample of yur days meals. WHERE ARE YOUR VEGETABLES AND FRUITS? HHHMMM. Tsk Tsk! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey Georgia apparently Mortar is taking odd's on which one of our WS's will return first....LMAO!!

It's between you, me, alank and someone else, can't remember who, I laughed so hard when I read that!!!

If I have to be in a race, I'm a thoroughbred racehorse LMAO!!!

-Caren