GG, I admire your strngth so much!!! I have been following your thread carefully and it gives me hope.
I will pray for you today.

Praying for protection for you and your sons. Praying for your wife to finally hear how hard God is trying to reach her. Praying for peace and God's comfort for you and your boys...I know that even though this is the right thing for you to do...that it hurts also and takes a toll on all involved.

Sincerely,

FYR

Good evening to all -

Thank you all for your prayers today.

The day went off pretty much as planned, we got to the house about 11:00 AM with the rental truck and WW had already left for school. We loaded the truck with a complete bedroom suite, sofa, loveseat, desk, and much, much more. We drove the truck back over to the apartment and I picked my car up and drove it to WW's school. I dropped it off there and picked up her T-bird, then took it to the dealer who has agreed to buy it. I'm trying to work out a deal where he will pay off the loan on her car and give me a used Honda Accord (1997) that I will use as I have now given WW my car. I've got the Accord tonight and he is storing her car in his warehouse until we reach an agreement. I am satisfied with the cash offer he has made, I may just sell it to him and then go buy myself another car.

By the time I got back to the apartment, #1 & #2 S's had completely unloaded the truck. The apartment looks great with furniture in it. I think it is going to be very nice.

Anyway, the day has gone as planned. WW has tried to call my cell 2X, and tried to get each of the boys and DIL's cells, but they didn't answer.

#2DIL cooked me a chocolate cake as a housewarming treat, and we all sat around and ate it after we finished working. They also gave me a housewaming gift of a scented candle.

So...back at #1S's tonight as the electricity is to be turned on at the apartment tomorrow. If all goes according to plan, I will be in the apartment tomorrow night.

Thanks again for everyone's prayers. We are all really tired tonight and will sleep well.

Georgia

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Formerly G.G. ]</small>

well done GG

From your writing i can see that it feels good to be doing something physical.

I think you should also be prepared for WW turning up at the apartment.

Please bear in mind that we are all here to talk to when you actually move in and dont forget to get the computer working asap

Your thread has been inspirational.

My lead boots are still keeping me stuck mind is willing body not responing. Or if silly mind would be more productive maybe body would follow. But reading your thread gets me motivated. Many thanks.

Good Morning all -

As expected, I had some e-mail from WW this morning. However, I was hoping that it would be of a more conciliatory nature.

Here is what I received:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Who helped your father move the furniture? And in case you don't know, none of this had been mentioned to me. He also never mentioned we'd be selling the car. Guess he is an Indian giver too, because the car and dresser were both presents to me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I now realize that I have done you a great diservice. I should have spoken with your counselor when you asked me to for your sake, and I intend to do that. His name was STEVE Harley, right? I was under the impression that you spoke with the guy who wrote the books. Steve Harley is his son. Is this the correct number? 1-888-639-1639

I am beginning to feel very sorry for you. You are eaten up with hatred. I see no evidence of love in your actons.

Nothing but love and hurt in my heart. No hatred.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So...if she talks with SH, we'll see where that goes. Right now I'm kind of numb to the whole thing and it's really hard to keep going. Work is piling up on me and I'm having a really hard time keeping up with everything.

I really, really feel overwhelmed.

Georgia

okay go to work

Once you are there work will kick into autopilot.

Being busy will help today.

Time time time dont rush

Hi GG:

I sense you are feeling overwhelmed. Do you want to hear my thoughts about your WW? I had predicted in my mind before reading your recent post that she would be calling Steve Harley. Really, I had this hunch.

Good Morning, Mimi...

Sure, what's on you mind?

Georgia

Georgia:

In following your posts since your last session with Steve H., I've been of a slightly different opinion than many of the others. I have been kind of holding back. It's hard to put what I want to say into words so bear with me.

I have been been thinking that your WW is very much like my FWH (his former name) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> in certain respects. One feature that my H held onto throughout all of this was his SENSE OF PRIDE. This was because of his issue about respect.
He is a smart man and understood the MB SYSTEM. However, he wanted to feel that he did it HIS WAY and on his OWN TERMS. I hate to keep talking about Steve Harley because some folks seem to resent that I do this. However, Steve did respect and understand this about my FWH and encouraged me to take this into account. I started to see this in your WW, thinking that she would eventually want to contact STEVE H. but ON HER OWN TERMS. She wanted to feel that she made the choice and you did not force her into doing it.

Do you think she has the NEED FOR ADMIRATION like my H? Thus, we have the OM that she is helping? Do you think it was an issue for her that she didn't have a chance to go to school, etc.?

You see, I think this does fit with the MB System. I know you and others have been thinking that your sitch is different. It is not alot different than mine. Your WW is following a similar pattern than that of my H's. He was very stubborn, prideful and aggressive with me at times. A lot of this I didn't report on the forum.

At the end of my PLAN B, I began having to negotiate with him with the support of Steve and MORTARMAN. We called it a transitional stage. Your WW sounds like she's beginning this stage. You might want to think about talking to Steve again if you are up to it? Are you at a place where you want to start this process with her?

Listen to me. Folks on the forum discouraged this. Steve H. recommended it. Do you see where I am going with this?

<small>[ February 01, 2005, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Digesting what you say...I will be back later with this.

Georgia

FGG:

I think her mentioning that she'll call SH is a very positive sign. Doesn't matter what else she said about love and hate. Those are reactionary statements. She needs them right now. (or thinks she does).

I like Mimi's suggestion, 2. I hope you consider it and talk 2 SH about the possibility.

best,
-ol' 2long

<small>[ February 01, 2005, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

I'm busy at work today so I may not sound as coherent.

However, I wanted to let you know that MORTARMAN has some great stuff in his most recent post to CAREN.

Later....

Mimi & all -

I have read MM's comments to Caren.

It is hard to describe what I am feeling right now, other than really beat-up. I'm tired, and driving 3 hours a day in addition to everything else hasn't helped any. The electricity is SUPPOSED to be on in the apartment today so I can stay there tonight.

I'm trying to keep in mind that Plan B is for me, and to coninue my life with or without her. But then I keep getting jerked back in, just to be dashed against the rocks again. I thought last week's e-mail from WW was going to hold promise, only to find out that WW's relationship with OM was "up to me". What? If I'm a good enough H, she wouldn't need another man????

Now this one this morning. I kind of expected today to get a message that was like "I'm sorry, I was wrong, I'll give up OM if it means that much to you." But again, no...just more bashing of "Dad".

#1S tells me that his e-mail from her this morning was that she had called and left a message for SH to call her. She added that "he's only got 13 years of experience." And, she wanted to talk to him to tell her side of the story. If she talks to SH, it can do no harm and maybe some good.

I'm just so tired (hate to keep using that phrase) of this all. I think I do indeed want to say "that's it, I'm done....now leave me alone". But, like you said, I can't run from the pain.

I know I'm the one that's incoherent. Sorry about that.

Banking to do today during lunch, as well as car stuff.

Thanks for the posts and prayers of all -

Georgia

FGG -

I wanted to second what Mimi had to say, plus I wanted to clear up something that may have been confusing to some or led anyone to think that your situation is totally unique or not 'able to be aided by MB' principles.

I sure HOPE that is NEVER the impression I gave you. I looked back at one of my posts after I read Mimi's reply because I was worried she may have counted me in the group that she mentioned. When I said this goes past the 'his needs/her needs' type stuff, I really should have clarified that to mean this -

Over the past 3 to 4 years I have seen certain groups of WS's just 'get it' and come around quickly with their BS's and applying the MB principles without a whole lot of outside help and by this I mean counseling with SH or another experienced marriage coach that applies similar principles. Personally, I wish EVERYONE could counsel with SH regardless because from what I've seen, he helps cut down the amount of time to getting to and staying in recovery WAY less painful.

However, a large amount of the BS's out there seem to have very stubborn WS's and I have watched them drag the A out while their BS's are in so much pain and are doing Plan A, Plan B, back to Plan A, Plan B again..Plan D..Plan B, etc.

My two Plan B heroes (once they finally got it down and stuck with their plan)..lol...are Mortarman and Mimi. As they have both shared, they didn't get it right from the beginning, I don't know many who do. Once Mimi and MortarMan 'got it'...they were incredible with sticking with it. I know both were guided and had their personal approaches tailored by SH to fit their situations.

When I said your situation was a little puzzling, it was more about some of the potential root causes and some of your wife's past behavior, not necessarily her reactions or her predicted path she would take once the heat was turned up and she was no longer enabled in her fence sitting. I agree with Mimi about your WW's need for control here. In fact, in some ways and maybe 2Long can give more input since he was more familiar with this sitch...your WW kind of reminds me of Spacecase's WW...just in some little ways.

I think Mimi is also right about your WW's need for ADMIRATION and CONTROL. Stubborness, pride, etc. I remember some of the stuff Mimi and her husband went through and from what I can recall, control and admiration was a big issue for him and I think initially the OW met the admiration 'need' for him big time (Mimi, is this right or do I have you mixed up with someone else?)...I think the WS's guilt that they may not show you except in negative ways...it exacerbates this need for control somehow.

I think a call to SH telling him her response thus far and possibly preparing him for a call from her is definitely in order. Also, I know you are a fan of using SH and don't need convincing on this, I just wanted you to know that I am also (in fact, I've thought about calling him about my sitch even though there is no active A, but also no recovery)..and I agree with Mimi's thoughts in her last post.

All in all, I think her letter was positive. She reminds me also of Mortarman's WW...in that sometimes she seems like a confused little girl who doesn't understand why people are being so mean to her...like she hasn't or cannot yet make the connection between her behavior and HER choices and the consequences she is now receiving. I do not mean this harshly...a large part of me feels for your wife, not because of what is happening, but that she made continual life choices that has put her where she is today.

Do I think your wife may have some unique issues about how she got to where she first started making bad choices? Sure! I don't know many WS's, myself included, who just woke up and thought 'hey, i want to have an affair and cheat on my spouse'. I'm sure everyone had their own unique twists at some point, but usually most stories have major commonalities. I do still believe your wife may possibly have some other emotional issues that may need to be addressed by a different professional. That being said, I would still work hand in hand with SH to come to that final conclusion.

I'm sure Steve has probably 'seen it all' by now. He may even have some suggestions/thoughts about what other type of help, if any, your wife would benefit from.

As JL would say though - time and patience..and baby steps. She is getting there...the offer to call, even if for her own 'reasons' is still good!

Mimi - just wanted you to know that while I watched your own struggle and eventual path to recovery, I always admired you and your strength...and your character. I think you are an awesome lady!

Regards,

FYR

Hey FGG -

I don't post much, but I've followed your story from day 1.

Just wanted to mention - you might want to ask your sons not to pass on anything that their mother says in discussions/emails. It kind of breaks the Plan B protection mode that you are in.

I admire what you have done so far and hope for the best for you and your situation.

FGG -

After typing my 'tome' to you, I found you had posted again. I'm sorry you are feeling so down! I know it is hard to see that her response today is actually a good sign, but it is!

I've seen some super stubborn WS's that actually in response to what has happened, would have dug further into their hole and not have responded at all (or freaked out in such a massive explosion that it takes your breath away), and then would have taken the departure of their BS from their home as 'carte blanche' (sp?) to now get closer to the OP, perhaps even physically. I'm not saying that this is not still a risk, we all knew it would be and it always is whether you are living in the home or not.

I understand that you probably hoped that this would have generated a more 'hopeful' sounding response, but actually...could you have really trusted such an easy capitulation? I would have been very wary to be honest if she had responded differently than she did. I know that sounds strange.

Please believe that her response IS a good sign. It is somewhat predictable...and you can still take some hope from it.

It sounds like you may need a mental 'break' from some of this stuff. When is your next pottery class? Be sure to keep having some of your needs met even if you have to meet them yourself like recreation, fellowship with church friends, etc.

I will keep you in my prayers.

Regards,

FYR

"GEORGIA ON MY MIND"

We have glossed over a major point! You have just made a move out of your dream house. Sit down, take a breath, open your eyes and realize how significant this is. THIS IS A MAJOR TRAUMA FOR YOU! We have been joining with you in the delusion of how cute your apartment is, etc. However, in reality, this must be devastating! Thus, you are feeling horrible right now. It's hard for us all to accept how tragic this all is. Yesterday I came to terms with how I am still trying to heal from the A wound, 2 years since D-DAY. There are so many horrible experiences associated with it. I even sometimes wonder, what if I had not taken him back because the things he did to me were so awful....

I'm trying to say out loud for you the reason for your current distress. You are dealing with major stressors and losses....

Also, now, you are REALLY in PLAN B, suffering through the withdrawal from your wife that MORTARMAN is speaking about. You are REALLY beginning to miss her now because she will not be closeby. I would also guess that you are FRIGHTENED. I know I was. How do you live without somebody that has been with you it seems like forever. At least before she was nearby. I understand completely, GEORGIA!!

She is now beginning to miss you, too. However, remember that she is still in the fog. It is cracking but still there. Even now with my H, I see faint glimpses of the fog. The fog will remain until she has absolutely NO CONTACT with him. So she will continue to speak TWO LANGUAGES. Remember to not give any credence to her ALIEN REMARKS. On a positive note, she seems to have some touch on reality. She has received her ELECTRIC SHOCK! treatment and it is working.

I think you need to take some time to regroup and to heal like FYR has said. You are not finished with this battle by any chance. It is not time for surrender after you have come this far.

It's going to make a world of difference when she calls Steve Harley and she will. A large part of her does not want to call him. Mostly, in the fog, she wants to continue with her A and wants you or anyone else to give her reasons not to meet your conditions. So she is provoking you, calling you names, trying to make you into a bad guy to justify continuing in the A. However, on the other hand, she is beginning to feel the pain of PLAN B, wants relief and the only option that you have given her is Steve Harley. You see, she is warring between her two parts. Your WW may have underlying psychological issues but she is certainly not psychotic or insane. Her mind is working just fine.

FYR:

I really appreciate your kind words to me. I was also surprised that you kept up with my struggle. It means alot to know that I am not alone out here. Yes indeed. THE NEED FOR ADMIRATION is a biggy for my H. It still is. I keep learning more and more each day on how to meet this need.

"GEORGIA ON MY MIND"

Thank you FYR & Mimi -

Pottery class is tonight, and I think I am well ready for it. I am indeed feeling about the most stressed I have ever been. I am glad I'm back on the Lexapro. On top of everything else, work is really getting stressful right now with a huge backlog of stuff to do.

Mimi, you're right about the house. I took some time yesterday just to walk through each room. We've got such a nice house, and I found it to be so comfortable. There's the fish pond and the 50 dogwood trees that I planted, and the patch of woods out in our back yard. Yes, I do indeed miss it.

The apartment is nice, and is an adventure. But...it's empty. I know that when this all dies down, I'll be coming "home" to a very quiet place with no one (except my dog) waiting on me. I am finding it a bit overwhelming right now.

I'm getting really, really close to using the word "depressed", but I can't because I'm already on an A/D. I do have the desire to try and escape, but I don't know how I could do that right now with all the stuff going on. A mental break is certainly in order.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what the next few days hold with WW. I hear what you're all saying (notice I didn't say ya'll!), but I'm really feeling like WW is digging in her heels deeper and deeper. I still don't feel the kind of anger towards her that I sense she is feeling towards me.

Thanks to all for your concerns.

Georgia

G.G.,

Your wife's anger is to be expected, and it is a good thing. At least she is FEELING. At least she is REACTING.

I agree, though, that you should talk to your sons and DILs and perhaps go over the point of Plan B with them again. If your W has any pressing need for factual information from you, they can edit out the emotion and make the request of you, then relay the information back to her. You don't need to be hearing nonsense about who has hatred in their heart or that you're an indian-giver. You need some peace. She knows your heart has love, she knows you're doing this to protect your heart and your love for her, and she has the map home.

I think you could benefit from more protection in your Plan B. The in-house Plan B must have been exhausting. Time for you to be sheltered from her emotional emails for a while, don't you think?

I agree that it's good she's calling SH, or thinking of doing so.

The point someone made about pride getting in her way is a good one. If you think about it, in her mind she has "only" talked on the telephone. She truly does not get how hugely she has betrayed you. She probably is talking herself into feeling affronted, and wronged - all prideful feelings.

Allow yourself some quiet, and some time to grieve really hard. I bet you have shed plenty of tears, but I doubut you've been free to really grieve at work or in the house.

Enjoy your pottery class.

Thanks all for the support today.

I am guilty of asking S's if they had heard from Mom, and they complied with my request. I've not been doing that, and I'll refrain the future. I guess I'm guilty.

I'm really going to try to unwind a little tonight. I know this is a good night for pottery, and I'm looking forward to relaxing some there.

I went to the bank at lunch and withdrew our checking account down to only a few hundred dollars. I'm going to take that and deposit it in my account. I noticed on the bank web-site that there had been a transfer of $600 to an account that is not "ours", so I assume WW has now set up her own account.

I'll try to finalize the deal on the car today also. I'm trading the "equity" (and a little more) in WW's car for a used Honda for me.

Thanks again to all for the kind words.

Georgia