</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The apartment is nice, and is an adventure. But...it's empty. I know that when this all dies down, I'll be coming "home" to a very quiet place with no one (except my dog) waiting on me. I am finding it a bit overwhelming right now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi G.G.,
Hope you don't mind me sticking my nose in here for a second. Just wanted to say that going home to an empty place -- like everything else -- will get easier every day. I was absolutely terrified of it -- for a couple weeks I had the TV going almost 24hrs/day, just to hear some human voices!
Hang in there... it WILL get better!

FGG,

I have not been in a position to post to you for a few days, but have gotten on to read a bit. I think you are on the right track and I think your W will ultimately be forced to face that she is the one making decisions and you are making decisions in response to her choices.

I do hope you speak with SH abit about this. I think her email to you suggests as other have said that she doesn't full comprehend that she can lose you. She thinks you are motivated by anger, when in fact you are motivated by love and a fear that will never be enough for her.

Perhaps if you ever exchange emails or information you might point this out to her. Your actions are not out of anger, but self-preservation and fear of what her decisions are doing to you.

Enjoy the pottery.

God Bless,

JL

GG,

Whew, haven't been able to get to my computer for a few days, but here are a few thoughts.

I have such faith in SH with WSs. He is truly awesome. There is so much he can do for her if she is willing. I'm hoping you feel some relief, that a load is lifting from your shoulders. You now have a safe place to go to each night where you don't have to worry about what WW might/will do. The stress of your at-home Plan B was dreadful.

The great thing, if your WW should agree to long-term coaching with SH, is that saving your marriage being his/your goal; he'll be sure that WW is really ready to work on the marriage before he recommends you come home.

You can't believe what work he has in store for WW. Once he has her in the process, he won't let her up for air until she has fulfilled his requirements for recovery. And it's a very tough assignment~~my FWH stalled out a few times struggling with the assignments. Not because they're long, but because they are grueling....requiring the WS to take full responsibility for the affair; and making them go through the painful process of understanding EXACTLY what you must be feeling as the BS.

He will have so much for her to do; she will have to make such progress - that this will give you time to rest & heal and work on your stuff. You will have homework assignments too; and best of all YOU won't be in charge of WW recovery. SH will, and that's a huge load off of you.

I sure hope she's up for it. It will be enormously eye-opening for her, and whether or not your marriage will survive - the healing that will come for you as a result of the process will give you much peace.

<small>[ February 01, 2005, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

Good Morning to all -

It was an eventful evening.

A mutual friend called me and said his W had been talking with WW. WW has told her that she has agreed to all my "demands" and I still won't talk to her. I told my friend that this wasn't true, she continues to decline to end the R with OM.

Then, I went to pottery. Just before I pulled into the parking lot, I saw her pull in ahead of me. I was afraid that was going to happen. I just kept going and went back home.

Georgia

Georgia:

I'm sitting here having a deja vu moment. Folks on here might recall how my FWH tried to catch me at the gym during PLAN B. I had to keep changing my exercise times.

She's following the script.


That's a positive sign given that you see where I am at this point.

Remember, like I told you yesterday, the battle is not over.

WHERE IS MORTARMAN? He's the one that's good with the war analogies......

Good Evening to all -

I took the day off from work, it is too hard to concentrate on work right now. Of course, no internet access at home yet.

It has been, as usual, an eventful day. WW showed up at the car lot today (I don't know how she figured out where to go) demanding her car back. They assisted her in understanding it is not her car anymore.

She and #1S had about a 20 minute phone conversation (yes, I let him tell me about it). She has contacted a lawyer herself and is going to file for a divorce. She tells him she has paid $2,500 for the lawyer already. (I don't know where the money came from).

I called and canceled our joint credit card before it is max'd out or used to pay her lawyer. I'm sure she doesn't know about that yet.

Anyway, she told #1S that she is only interested in getting her car (and her umbrella) back, not interested in ending R with OM to get her M back. #1S is really upset, telling me he thinks she doesn't really comprehend at all that what she is doing is wrong.

I met with the lawyer at 3:00 tomorrow.

All for now, I'm at the car lot using one of their computers.

Georgia

Her umbrella? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Gawd, I hope she comes out of it soon, FGG.

Give our regards 2 your kids, and take care.

-ol' 2long

FGG,

I presume that you have called SH to see if in fact she has indeed contacted him as she suggested she was going to? It would be worth checking and also getting SH feedback on this.

I do hope that eventually she will wake up, but who knows. Take care of yourself, rest up and start to focus on work.

God Bless,

JL

Wow GG,

Sounds like her pride and ego are ruling her.

I'm glad you've taken good protective measures.

Prayers to you, CSue

Hey, Georgia:

I hope you were able to go into work today.

I'm going to move right in to share a few thoughts with you.

TURTLEHEAD SAID:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife's anger is to be expected, and it is a good thing. At least she is FEELING. At least she is REACTING </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree with this!! She is FEELING PAIN which is the point here. In order to be motivated to beat an addiction, a person has to suffer and reach their bottom. If you are anything like me, you fear conflict, anger, extreme emotion. I'm continuing to learn that emotions are OK and to not be frightened by their expression. I'm learning that it is not OK for me to always rush in and plug up emotions and to try to fix things for my loved ones. This is an awful thing for your WW. She needs to suffer and she will express this in a number of ways including ranting and raving.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She and #1S had about a 20 minute phone conversation (yes, I let him tell me about it). She has contacted a lawyer herself and is going to file for a divorce. She tells him she has paid $2,500 for the lawyer already. (I don't know where the money came from).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK. Why in the world do you know all of these details? 20 minute conversation? Was your son looking at his watch to time the conversation? $2500 for the lawyer? I'm uneasy with this for lots of reasons. Is your son consciously or unconsciously aware of your need for this info. and is keeping track for you like a PI. If so, being that he is her son, your WW can read this. To all, including your children and most importantly yourself, you want to give the message that you are finished with her and going on with your life. [B]If she chooses the OM, it's her choice. You do not want someone that does not want you, etc. Get it?

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR HER TO GET THE MESSAGE THAT YOU ARE SETTING HER FREE AND YOU ARE ALSO SETTING YOURSELF FREE FROM HER!! This will really be relieving to you. Also, it will keep this from looking like an effort to control her. This was an essential message for my PRIDEFUL FWH to get. This blew his mind. It has to do with the issue of RESPECT. Because respect is so important to him and he wanted me to respect him, he admired that I BEGAN TO DEMAND RESPECT! This has been hard for me to put into words. Do you understand what I am saying, GEORGIA?

I think that your WW is winning the battle right now. That's just the impression I am getting. Stop worrying and fretting over her response to this. Be proud of this NEW YOU!!! Make sure to not miss any days at work if you can. Don't let her beat you down.

BECOME MYSTERIOUS!!! Find ways to avoid her. It may mean keeping your actions secret from your children because it seems that they may be trying to do some amateur counseling on their own. I would think that they can't help themselves. I remember when my parents separated when I was an adult and I worked behind the scenes to try to get them back together.

DON'T BELIEVE THOSE STATEMENTS THAT SHE IS MAKING NOW!! Even if she is considering continuing her R with the OM, it might be good for her to get with him. That may be the only way that she gets in touch with the reality of this. She wants you to react to her now so that she does not have to face taking a look at herself.

I'm hoping to hear from you.

Take Care......

I think what mimi is writing is so important. My FWH felt my Plan B was another way I was controlling the situation. I had to be VERY clear with him to let him know that he was free to make whatever decision he wanted to make and I would deal with the consequences.

You are reacting to your W actions.

If she files for D (and BIG IF here, why would she? What would she gain form it? The threat of D is worth more to her than the action) You will need to be in contact to split up the property (OK, she can get the umbrella in the D) You can be clear with her that you are setting her free. That she appears to want to continue this R with OM and you are not going to stand in her way...but, you don't have to stick around and watch it either and if her R with OM is more important than her R with you than you will go along with the D to allow her to continue it. These are the consequences of HER choices.

I've read on here that many a BS in Plan B has kept a Plan B journal. It's useful to the BS to get things off their chest, and to write a history of what has occurred. Whatever happens later, it's useful to have this account...in case of D, it's useful to have a reminder about the state of the M for yourself...and in recovery, it's useful to have the WS read to know what was going on with you during the darkest times. Write not only facts, but your feelings.

Maybe a quick note about finances to your W to let her know you have cancelled the CCard, took back the car to consolidate finances to support two households for now, ask if she has jobs lined up for after the D. Let her know which bills you will still be responsible for, and which ones you won't.

BTW,

I forgot to mention that your WW is continuing to follow the script. That's why it is familiar to me. My FWH did the same stuff when I really made major steps during PLAN B.

He went to see a lawyer. What a waste, because he ended up using my lawyer for the separation. He wouldn't sign papers that needed signing and on and on....

The important thing is for you to regain control because as you can see she is out of control....

Mimi,

Your advice is priceless. Having NEVER been in your & GG's situation, I would never dreamed to know the kind of stuff you have learned.

It really makes me appreciate those who have recovered in various forms who are willing to stick around and help people who are living a similar drama...sort of what Pep has been saying in her "Pay it Forward" thread. You're like a life-line.

CSUE:


I really appreciate your kind feedback. Recently, I've been wondering if I am really being helpful. You have encouraged me to not go away.

Thanks.

((((FGG))))

OK, your wife cracks me up. I know this is a serious matter and you are in extreme pain over this, but here are some things I want you to consider/keep in mind:

1) If she were so darn happy, why is she freaking out over a car and an umbrella?? After all, she has what she wants and what she chose - her OM. She is NOT happy, so she is going to make you more unhappy. Unfair? Oh yes! Predictable? Uh huh. It's not the umbrella she wants back..it is you, but only so she can cake eat some more.

2) If her OM was going to 'complete' her, why isn't she now happy? She has what she wanted! Oh, I know she said she kind of wants you both, but her actions said she chose OM or at least her selfish way of life - sometimes no decision is a decision as they say.

3) If it were me, and remember, I was in her shoes (in contrast to your sitch - I desperately had wanted out of my M for 9 years. I had NO relationship with my H for 9 years. I was in an abusive relationship so my A was probably much more attractive to me and met many many more needs (however selfish they were) than hers is meeting for her. I would have GIVEN my H a car to just leave me alone and let me be able to be with the OM (I'd even toss in the umbrella too). To heck with financial needs, if all was 'assured and rosy' - most WS's would think they can 'live on love'. What I'm saying, if your M was so bad and OM was so good for her, she would have run into his arms by now and wouldn't be wasting time talking to sons and blowing fog their way. It's amazing how any of you can see to drive where you live..what with the huge fog bank that surrounds your state. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

4) When I read what your wife had to say all I can hear is "blah, blah, blah". She is full of all the angst, anger, blame-shifting, finger-pointing crud that ALL WS's are full of when you start to no longer enable their A and when they feel their 'happy little fake' world is threatened.

5) I think of your WW as a hissing cat - no disrespect truly intended. She is hissing, spitting, and showing her claws(by the way..I LOVE and ADORE cats..but not when they are hissing and spitting..although I do think they look funny with their backs all arched up). And you know what, most WS's have to go through this first to get any where else. It is almost like that grief cycle. She will go through this and get to another phase, and go round and round for a bit. Some never get off the merry-go-round, but some do.

6) Your WW is in the throes of an addiction. In some ways, I think she was also addicted to the role she had you playing in your M. She doesn't seem to realize that to date, since your M - she has had relationships with three men - you, OM #1, and now OM #2. None of you have been able to make her happy because none of you can! She hasn't learned the hard lesson that most recovering alcoholics and addicts learn is that no matter where you go, no matter where you run, no matter where (or with whom) you hide, you take yourself with you! She is medicating herself with men - she needs to have one of the medicines withdrawn (you, which you have done) and on the other, she needs to quit taking it or overdose herself on it until it sickens her. I truly am not trying to be mean - but now it is time for the fantasy world she has crafted to self-destruct.

FGG - I will be honest and admit that I didn't feel guilt over my A for a long long time. Oh, I felt guilt over being caught, I felt major guilt over hurting my kids, and I felt major guilt for violating morals and values I had previously held near and dear. However, I must ashamedly admit that I felt very little guilt for hurting my H because after all, he had hurt me for so very long it was about darn time he could see how it felt! Before I get hit with 2 x 4's - I am now 3 years post d-day and I don't think this way anymore. The 1st year though, yes I did. I wanted to pay back his betrayal throughout the years. There are all sorts of ways to violate vows and betray your spouse and they don't all involve an OP.

I said that because I want you and the other BS's to know..that reading what you are going through and what you suffer, has brought home to me over and over - the awful reality of what I did. The cruelty, the selfishness, the utter despicability of an affair. I thank all of you for being willing to post despite the pain. I am so very sorry for having an A..you have no idea.

FGG - steady on your path now, time and patience, and no more tidbits from sons, no matter how well intended. Plan B can't protect you if you don't let it. Stay safe in the Plan B cocoon. Your feelings are too raw to handle info about how your WW is self-destructing - no matter how badly you want to hear. If your sons need kind of a release valve for the news they hear, let them send info on to SH and he can help decide if it is something that you need to be protected from or advised about. Listen to Mimi, she has been where you are. Time to protect yourself, even from other's good intentions.

Regards,

FYR

FYR:
WOW!!! WHAT A WONDERFUL, INSIGHTFUL POST!!!


Thank you especially for the glimpse into the mind of the WS. I found that to be especially helpful.

<small>[ February 04, 2005, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

((((Mimi))))

OK girl, don't make me come over to...umm...heck, I don't remember what state you live in!

As you can see from my posts, being succinct is NOT my strong point. The BS's that I referenced in my last post to FGG - the ones who helped show me the wrongness and the horror of what I had done - you were one of the primary ones.

While I was surrounded by my feelings of 'justification' for my A, I would read what your H was doing to you and I'd think "how can he do that to her?"..."what in the heck is he thinking"..."and..he is so FULL of it". And then I'd hear a small voice in my mind/heart going "and what are you, FYR?..what are you FULL of..how could you do that...how could you repay what you viewed as wrongs with pain of such magnitude?"..and one of the hardest of all "how do you explain to your children how it is ok to drop your values and beliefs if you feel justified"?

You are a wonderful lady and of such value to so many. I will never be able to see FGG's sitch in the way that you do. You've been where he and all the other BS's are. All I have is weird attempts to make BS's laugh and the ability to kill threads with the best of them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sometimes I hope I can give insight into some things about WS's and how they 'think', but as you know..WS's are complicated things. One size does not fit all, but as you and I both know - 90% (don't ask me where I got that number..just gut guess) of the behavior and the crud is predictable. It just sometimes comes flavored as 'mint manure' instead of 'vanilla manure'.

Please stay and know that you have given so much. If you need a break for you, I totally understand that, but I wanted you to know how much you have given me. Thank you, Mimi...many hugs and prayers going your way.

Regards,

FYR

FYR:

I'm going to thread-jack just a bit and ask you a gnawing question I have.

My H seems to be so much in love with me now. It freaks me out that he was "in love" with someone else. Maybe she was a "NON-PERSON" to him. Whatever,,,


MY QUESTION: Does he think about her now at all? I mean, Does he think of her fondly and/or miss her? He insists that he does not. I want to believe him. Should I?

Mimi! We were 'cross-posting'. I really have to learn how to edit some day!

I almost panicked when I realized you had posted in between my reply to FGG and then the post I had typed to you..because when I read your kind words to me..and then I saw my post to you next..and it starts out with "OK, Mimi..don't make me come over there"..I was like..ooh boy, that doesn't look right! It looks like you gave me a compliment and then I decided to threaten you! LOL..

I wanted to clarify real quick that my post to you was in response to your comment to CSue:

"I really appreciate your kind feedback. Recently, I've been wondering if I am really being helpful. You have encouraged me to not go away."

OK, well, I was threatening you in an affectionate, teasing way..but that is only if you are leaving...not if you are saying something kind to me.

I'm glad my words were of some value. Sometimes I read back and think "wow, was she one messed up gal or what" (regarding my A). If something good comes of my A, then at least there is that. As they say - God can make something good even out of something bad.

Best Regards,

FYR

FYR:

We really are cross-posting!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I asked you a question prior to your last post.

Check it out, OK?