Hey Mimi -

Maybe this will help give you some ease of mind and heart. As you can probably tell from my postings – my M is not ‘recovered’ and there are really no warm, nice feelings of love in my M because of ongoing needs not being met for both my H and myself.

However, even with all of that – now that I am no longer in the fog, and I know that you KNOW the signs – I can say 100% that not only do I NEVER think of OM fondly, I don’t miss him and I regret the day that I ever met him. As you wisely pointed out though – he is a non-person..that is a great word/phrase.

He represents to me only horrific pain and sin. Yes, I participated. I am not blaming the OM completely. Not saying that some OP’s don’t pursue, tease, lure, etc. – but the WS was married and could have said no at any given time. No one held us down and made us have an A. I like your choice of words “non-person”. We were NEVER truly in love with them. We were in love with how we thought they ‘MADE us feel’ (love isn’t dirty, shameful, and secret). It was never truly about them..not ever. The OP was an object..the drug that we took to make us feel good..and that we chose to keep in our lives as long as it felt good..and sometimes far after it no longer did because we were desperately hoping to recapture the 'feelings' we thought came from them.

Just like drugs, even when they stop working for an addict/alcoholic..why in the world do they keep drinking? The first experiences for addicts/alcoholics either felt good or were so tantalizing they came back for more. If they never felt good the 1st time, almost none of them would have repeated the experience. However, when the good feeling wears off, addicts and alcoholics become absolutely desperate to recapture the “high”…they want that fix so badly they shake sometimes. It is when the drug quits working..AND they hit their bottom..whatever that ‘bottom’ is..that they can start to deal with the addiction and they finally realize that all of their 'feelings' were a total lie based on a pile of lies.

From what you posted – I don’t see any signs that he misses her or thinks of her fondly in any way. Does he think of her in any way at all? I would tend to think not since you two seem to be well along the path of recovery, but I personally still do think sometimes of OM (very rarely)..and I think of him most often when depressed or even when H and I are having problems..but it is not because I miss him or I’m thinking “wow, maybe I should have kept my options open”..it is because I hate and loathe what he and I together represented and when I get depressed…I replay all the tapes of what a ‘bad person’ I am. The false fond memories of ‘OM’ are gone. I saw them long ago for the lie that they were and to be honest..it makes him as a person repugnant to me.

One good thing - the other day..a thought of OM came to my mind..and the weirdest thing happened...I could NOT remember his name!! His face came to mind...I had a shiver of revulsion..and then a TOTAL blank on his name! That is such a welcome relief and gift to me!!!!!!

If my H were to divorce me or to God forbid, die today..and OM was to show up today, tomorrow, or a year from now…I can tell you that I have absolutely NO desire to talk, see him, hear about him..ponder him..reunite with him…ack…makes me sick to my stomach to tell you the truth. Like they say, if they will cheat with you, they will cheat on you. What a hypocrite I am to say this..but hey, I could never trust the OM! He cheated! And with a married woman..LOL!

I think as long as your H’s actions line up with the actions of a person committed to your M and in love with his W (barring stressful times when we ALL act like idiots and he may do some stupid things), then I think you can take comfort in the fact that his choice has been made…and he is very grateful to his beautiful wife for giving him grace and mercy when he did not deserve it. That is so attractive to WS’s that finally come around. If my H had shown such grace and mercy when I finally came around (not before, mind you)..girl, I would think I would be crazy about him! How much more love can a man show a woman..or a woman show her man? None! To forgive the unforgivable. The ultimate betrayal…given the ultimate human forgiveness. That is love tested to the ultimate limits…and your H is WELL aware of that, I imagine..and more grateful than he can probably ever find words to convey.

I cry happy tears for you.

Best Regards,

FYR

FYR: I REALLY THANK GOD FOR YOU TODAY! YOU ARE ALMOST A MIRACLE-A TRUE BLESSING!

(I hope Georgia will forgive us for thread-jacking)

I am as positive as I can be about anything that you my H feels the exact way that you do. However, he has not been able to put this in words to me. I just had the gut feeling that you could find the right words. I needed to read/hear the words.

He is such a man of action: Showing expressions of revulsion and disgust when I bring her up; squeezing me tightly and groaning when I have nightmares about him leaving me again; calling her one of the "bad people" and her neighborhood the "bad place".... There are a host of behaviors which add up to exactly to what you are saying. He is the one who gave me the impression of her being a non-person. However, she is not a non-person to me, though.

I guess that will take TIME AND PATIENCE given the extent of my wounds.

TAKE GOOD CARE, MY NEW FRIEND, FYR!!!!

It's amazing you would post today FYR, just today my H told me he saw a picture of OW last night at a friends and they both talked about her in not the nicest way (saying how selfish and into herself she is).

This is a 180 degree turn from almost 2 years ago when H sent the first NC email and was sad because he knew it hurt her and thought she would be crying.

I asked him today if he thought about getting back with her, and he said "No", I asked how come, he said, "Because I have you."

In the past I asked if he thought about her, and he would say, "Only about once a day..." Haven't asked him lately...but he doesn't SEEM like he thinks about her at all.

Last night was the first time since recovery that he went to friends (he goes there every Thursday night) and I didn't have pangs of distrust and didn't ask when he would be home (something I would do even before d-day).

SHOUTING OUT TO CSUE, FYR AND STILLHERE!!!

GROUP HUG!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Where, oh where, is GEORGIA??????

Mimi, thanks for the group hug.

You know I don't know what I would have done without this site. Even with counseling with SH, this site provided me a safe place to vent all the garbage inside that had to come out.

My husband and I didn't tell anyone about the affair, except he told our priest who we are very close to. So without all the kind, understanding people here at MB, I probably would have sabatoged our recovery. I just had so much to spew, that not any one person would have listened.

Still almost 3 years past d-day, I learn so much here! Hope to hear from GG soon...getting kind of worried!

I think he's enjoying the peace and quiet and solitude of his new abode, and looking for those pesky wires to connect him to the WWW.

(((((Group Hug back to Mimi and the "gang")))))

Mimi – I'm sorry this reply took so long (and FGG will probably be as gracious as always about our threadjack..maybe he can take some hope from our discussions?). I had to take care of some work problems and it took me a while to get everything running smoothly again. I am so happy that something I said/wrote has helped you that much. I feel like I am paying back in a small way what you and the others have done for me..and that makes me feel happy. I am honored to be considered your friend! I can always use a good friend!! Especially one who understands, if even from a different side, the impact of infidelity on an M.

You know, I like that your H is a man of actions instead of words (although as a female I ‘get’ the needing or wanting to hear the words also). You know, it is interesting that you say that. I have to admit that since my A – I ‘talk’ less, but I ‘do’ more. Not sure if that is some sort of psychological thing because my word became basically worth nothing – I lied, then lied again, then lied some more. Also, the only thing I could do because of the position I place myself in was to regain trust via actions. I couldn’t be trusted..and honestly..at some points, I didn’t even know that! I had good intentions of NC…I wanted to do the right thing but what I said and what I did fell short of the mark for such a long time. Actions were the only thing I had left after I had so effectively destroyed the validity of my word and my trustworthiness.

I still hesitate to talk with my H about anything A-related and to be honest, I NEVER bring it up….I would rather get a root canal, change the cat’s litter box with my bare hands (uck!), and give birth to a 12 lb. baby at the same time than do that! This isn’t just because of his anger issues, but also because after this much time, I HATE in some ways talking about it with him. It is so hard to talk about the offense directly with the person you offended because you sometimes have that sick feeling wondering if it was something you did or didn’t do that brought the question up…and it brings home again the magnitude of what you’ve done – and at a certain point WAY PAST D-Day, I think WS’s who are truly remorseful about what they have done tend to begin to shy away from the subject not because they don’t want to be ‘pained’ by talking about it, but because they don’t want their BS’s to be pained any more by it (as opposed to right after D-Day when I didn’t want to talk about it mainly because it made ME feel bad and uncomfortable). It just makes it very hard, but not for totally self-preservation reasons.

I can only imagine that the OW is not a non-person to you. I can’t even imagine how you must feel when you think of her. I can only remotely link it to the feelings of absolute hatred and rage I felt initially when two sexual predators who live in the neighborhood tried to lure my eldest daughter (who was 12 at the time) into their garage and I’m sure this is probably a poor comparison because obviously my daughter was a POTENTIAL victim in this scenario (and was not actually violated like your M was)…but if the guys had even ATTEMPTED it in front of me, they would have found me on top of them trying to gouge out their eyes and other personal parts so they could NEVER EVER use certain pieces of their anatomy to ever harm another again. I can’t tell you how many times I drove by their house hoping to ‘run into them’. I was absolutely crazed out of my mind and willing to protect my family at ANY cost.

Interesting about the nightmares you have….I can’t speak for my H on that one, but I can tell you of horrific ones I have had where I’m still in the A, have made contact again, etc. and I have woken up more than one night covered in sweat and heart racing and have had to think wildly for a minute as to what has actually happened. I am always so relieved to realize it was a dream…I can’t begin to describe it. I’m sure your nightmares must be incredibly painful. Have they lessened over time? Please tell me they have! Have you noticed any trigger at all or is it just random and out of the blue? I’m curious about that and I’ll share that reason in a different post.

Best Regards,

FYR

Hola SHMI!

Isn’t it ironic that even if the OP is decent looking..and look how often they are NOT, that WS’s seem to have affairs with people who are so totally inappropriate?? It is weird that WS's seem to intentionally pick people who are WRONG for them to even be with, even if the WS was single, to have A's with. Kind of like a purposeful sabotaging of a real relationship? But then again, if they wanted a REAL relationship, they wouldn't have cheated in the first place..or would have divorced first.

I mean, if WS’s wanted to be with someone decent looking, with some things in common at least, and someone trustworthy…then we would have not chosen the OP at all to begin with!

I’ve heard more than one BS say “but they OP is ugly!...they are trashy…they are not even very intelligent!” It has very nothing to do with looks, and for those BS’s whose WS’s chose younger and/or good looking OP’s, I GUARANTEE you these people were not/are not marriage material…even putting the A aside. If the OP had been met when the WS was single, I can tell you after realizing the OP’s true flaws, I would say almost NONE of the WS’s would have ended up marrying that person.

It’s not the looks, the character, the money, the youth…it is the fantasy, the feelings, trying to recapture stuff and that youthful feeling of ‘initial hot and heavy love’ outside of the marriage relationship when that should only be sought within the marriage relationship. I felt young again! I felt like I had another chance to ‘do it right’..to do it over…well, heck..I should have done that within my own M or sought that divorce I so badly wanted.

I was such a COMPLETE high-school-like moron over the OM. I HATED the hair color he had…did not like it on a man…I did not like his smooth “player” like ways…I always ran from men like this and could see their ‘bull’ a mile away. I knew even early on that he could not be fully trusted (lol..like I could be either!), yet for this man…no, for the feelings..and feelings not even based on reality, I hurt my children, hurt my H, have probably irreparably harmed my marriage, lied, stole, and for what?? I was pathetic..hanging by the phone waiting for OM to call…ignoring my kids if he called…staying up late to talk, getting up early to talk…going through all sorts of Herculean efforts to talk/see him. It was nuts, it was an addiction, it was an obsession..it was ANYTHING but the ‘true soul-mate love’ that I just KNEW I had found. What utter rot and how insidiously deceptive those fake feelings were. It felt EXACTLY like the hold that drugs and alcohol once had over my life. They became my “god” when I was a teen, just like the “OM” or the “A” became my “god” as an adult.

SHMI – how long has it been again since D-Day? I’m glad to see that you are able to rest at least a little in peace while H is out with friends. IF your WS has proven some grounds upon which you can start to trust them…and their actions have backed up their words..then in time, when YOU..and ONLY when you are ready, I think it is important to let your WS have some of that trust restored to them when they have earned it. It gives truly FORMER waywards some hope and keeps them going.

Regards,

FYR

PS: I sure hope FGG is taking a break..and is doing as well as can be expected.

Good evening to all my dear, dear friends -

I am at #1S's house and taking the whole gang out for dinner tonight. There are more posts here from you all than I can read right now, I will read them later tonight.

I filed out the papers and met with the lawyer today. All is in his hands now. No work again today, I'm going to try to get myself composed before Monday and get back into my routine. If I drank (which I don't), I would have stayed home drunk today.

The kids, as usual, are being wonderful. I asked them if I could come up tonight as I needed to be with family. We're having a "cleaning day" at my place tomorrow.

More later.

Thanks to all, I love you all.

Georgia

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: Formerly G.G. ]</small>

WOW !! There is a ton of good stuff from you all, and it is wonderful to read it.

Okay, where to start.

First, let me say that I take great encouragement by reading the posts of all of you, especially Csue, FYR, and of course Mimi. This isn’t threadjacking, this is allowing me a glimpse into lives that I find I need to know about right now. Thanks for posting on my thread.

You all have posted so much to me there is no way that I can address each post, but rest assured that each means so much to me.

This past Thursday and Friday were 2 of the hardest days of my life. I truly, truly have felt as depressed as I’ve ever been (yes, even with the Lexapro). I slept away most of both days except when I had to be out of bed for a phone call or an appointment.

I have indeed allowed #1S to communicate freely with me regarding his discussions with WW, a practice which I’ve now put a stop to and advised that I don’t want to hear any more. There has been absolutely nothing from WW that indicates she has any regrets at the loss of our M, just she’s upset about the car (and umbrella). Before I met with the attorney Friday afternoon, I called #1S on my cell from the parking lot to see if there was any word from WW that she was ready to dump OM before I went into the office. He told me that early Friday he text messaged her cell phone and begged her to end her R with OM before it was too late to save her M, but she choose not to even respond to him.

So....all is in the hands of the attorney now. I have asked for a communication black-out on any matters pertaining to her from the family, which they are again respecting. I know that #1S in particular felt that he had to make sure he had done everything he could to save the M, and I know now that he can say with assurance that he has done that. I feel so sorry for both of the boys, this hurts them so much to see their Mom doing this. I am fortunate that they are standing firm with me and not just running from the whole situation as I know must be tempting for them to do.

I’m now ready to say that it is over and I’ve got a life to live. Oddly enough, the hardest part of that for me is to realize the pain and hell that WW is likely to go through for the REST OF HER LIFE, not just some short term pain. I so hate to see her do this to herself.

Yesterday in my Sunday school class we discussed the book of Ruth. For those of you not familiar, I would suggest you read it as it is only 4 chapters long. The subject of the lesson was “Dealing with Grief”. It was probably the most meaningful SS lesson I have ever had, and it’s timeliness had to be more than just a coincidence. The teacher (a sub who is a physician) talked about how grief is actually a composite of anger, sorrow, and fear and that grief can come from the death of a relationship as well as from a physical death. It really caused me to look introspectively at where I am, as he pointed out that grief that is held in can become depression. I think that is where I have been heading, and I’ve got to deal with this to avoid falling into a deep depression.

The lesson continued in discussing how Naomi found herself in a situation far from where she ever expected to be, and how God provided for her even when she continually thought that He had abandoned her. It is indeed a sad story, but it shows that God is with us even through times that we may not see Him. It was definitely the right lesson at the right time for me, I needed to hear that so badly.

Thank you all so very much for sticking with me and your concern during this very, very trying time. Mimi....if you ever even HINT at leaving this forum I’m going to join FYR in coming to....well, wherever you are.

So glad you kind folks are sticking with me. It means more than you’ll ever know.

Georgia

Hang in there GG, you are doing well.

I'm willing to bet that even if you're divorced, your WW will return.

ALL -

WW IS MEETING WITH SH RIGHT NOW.

GEORGIA

I AM NOT GOING TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ISN'T GOD GOOD!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

waiting to hear from you FGG!!!!!

All -

The MB phone's are inop this morning, so I sent an e-mail saying that I will cover WW's charges on my c.c. as hers has now been terminated.

I got a reply that WW was meeting with SH at that moment. I have returned an e-mail reply that I would like an update from SH on the conversation and how to proceed. The office has called my cell and confirmed that this will be forwarded to SH.

A note of caution: When #1S told me that she was going to call and make an appt., she had been reading up on the SH bio and had come to the conclusion that his credentials weren't that impressive. I take that to mean that if he says things she doesn't want to hear, she may categorize him as a "fool" and "idiot" much like the last counselor who told her things she didn't want to hear.

As soon as I know anything, I will pass it along.

Georgia

FGG,

Hang in there. Even if her first reaction to SH is negative, he tends to leave an impression from all I have heard. As for your W, I think this all may end but it will have to be "her" idea. I doubt your sons talking to her will do the job.

Meanwhile, get on with your work, your pottery class, and don't forget your friends, they will help if you let them.

God Bless,

JL

GEORGIA:

JUST LEARNING STATED:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As for your W, I think this all may end but it will have to be "her" idea. I doubt your sons talking to her will do the job. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's important for you to get this!!!

Remember her PRIDE!! She does not want to feel that you and especially not HER CHILDREN have convinced her of anything.


Now it's time for you to schedule with Steve. He will learn invaluable information about your WW in his session with her. Even though my FWH didn't necessarily think he was profitting from his sessions with Steve, Steve certainly learned a lot about him which proved helpful to me in further understanding him.

GG,

I have to say that I am stunned to hear she's called SH!

I can't wait to hear the result of their conversation! He's very kind and warm and supportive of WSs, but he doesn't hesitate to hit them with reality either. I have NO doubt that she will be very impressed.

Most of all regardless of the outcome, you will feel more peace as a result of her being willing to talk with SH even if it's just once.

He's brutal about ending affairs and NC. Not in a horrible sense, just in the sense that there's no other way about it. Whether she decides to save your marriage or not, he will leave her with no doubt about what is the right thing to do. He's particularily good with Christians. (Hope that doesn't offend anybody). He can hold his own and then some!

Are you surprised she called SH?

On my way to lunch, I was thinking "OMG, GEORGIA'S WIFE MET ONE OF HIS CONDITIONS!"

Georgia, that's more than a baby step! That's wonderful!! At the beginning of all this, I personally had doubts that she would call Steve.

I think it's MARVELOUS!!!