</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Formerly G.G.:
<strong> However, I think her message to me is that if she MUST choose between me and OM, she chooses OM.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want to get lost in semantics, but I think it is important for you to understand that what she is really choosing, is herself.

She is stubbornly feeding whatever makes her brain feel good. This is about her, you are unfortunately caught in the storm, as is other man.

The real problem with the other man is that he is too stupid to realize that he is just a character in a play.

God bless,
Gimble

I am speechless for a change.

What a tragedy, how sad for you, when you put it this way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, I think her message to me is that if she MUST choose between me and OM, she chooses OM. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think my FWH chose the OW over me at one point especially when he went to live with her. He did not have to do that. He had his own condo which definitely was not in the ghetto. Maybe that's what you WW is trying to do, trying to find some means to get with him. I don't think it's OK for you to allow her to use your money to do that so I guess a legal battle to prevent that would be necessary. I think that will be the end for them, once they get together if possible, after she realizes how she has fantasized the wonder of all this. The tragedy of this is, will it be too late to salvage the mess that she has made?

Gimble's right.

You could even point out this "choice" 2 your W, and she would probably respond something like my W has, when I said:

ol' 2long: "You are putting RM above me and your family."

W: "No, if we get a DV, I'm going 2 live alone. I don't want 2 deal with either one of you."

That was within about 3 months of D-day, and though the response might not be the same if I made that remark 2day, the meaning would be: It was always about her. Never about me. Never about RM.

And, probably like her OM, RM was 2 s2pid 2 realize that my W wouldn't just come 2 him upon my discovery of their A. S2pid enough 2 let his own M fall apart.

I sure wish that making a point like that would clear fog, though. Bet we all do at one time or another.

-ol' 2long

Thank you all for caring.

I'm going to go home, grill a steak, then Jeb and I are heading north.

Will my L/R EVER get painted?????

Georgia

GG,
Right now you’re thinking that things seem mighty grim but you have to remember that it’s just another page in this sad tale. No matter what her attorney might try to convince her to do, your WW will still have to face the eventuality of living her life on her own, isolated from those she loves most.

Right now she’s still acting out like the “spoiled brat” that you my friend, created. She is still in her “poor me being persecuted and misunderstood” mode and is being emotionally supported by the OM, her lawyer and some else! Now who do you think that some else is? Her brother for one and who else do you think? Because GG, there is some one out there bucking her up and if it were me, I would want to find out who.

The thing is, however, in the long run in won’t matter because in the end she will find out that she’s alone. The lawyer will be gone with her payday. The OM isn’t coming to visit so soon. He has a wife to deal with and his education to complete. Her brother will be there but in the end, he has a life of his own. And the “good friends” (who ever they are), lending her support? If they are woman, then they won’t want your wife hanging around all that much…not when she is in reach of their husbands they won’t! So when the dust clears who and what will she have?

Besides, I don’t know for sure, but I’ve herd that it ain’t to great to be a single woman over 50 these days. The unkind truth is that men seem to have a great social advantage in this age range. And if you think I’m kidding come on down to South Florida for a visit.

But that isn’t the point either. The point is that sooner or later the fog will clear. It always does and that’s when she will begin to wonder what she’s got herself into. And Carl, if you want to ring it up and make it happen faster then don’t let your conciounce cause you to lay down for her. Give the lady her financial due but don’t go over board! Make her sweat a little bit. You aren’t going to be rewarded for being Mr. nice guy. You will just make it easier for her to continue down her current path. What you want is to force her to see reality and providing financial comfort is not the way to do it.

Buck up. This thing is a long way from being over. Just stay the course of your Plan B. In the end, it will get you where you need to be.

Coach

((((FGG)))))

I am going to try to come back later tonight and post a longer reply. I am in the middle of trying to get dinner started (I took the day off today due to sheer work burnout) and picking up youngest daughter.

I wanted you to know that I had read your recent postings and will come back and give you my 2 cents worth...yes, I have had some thoughts as you have been posting..and I have read your posts through the mindset of the wayward...which sometimes feels really odd to cast back to...

Hiya to Mimi Girl also...be back soon, I hope.

With Prayers and Love,

FYR

FGG, I know you are plan Bing but, as Dr Phil always says "How is it working for you". Why don't you just talk to her in some controlled manner? If for no other reason than just to see for yourself where she is at this moment rather than trying to interpret everything. This seems to be reaching the Abyss...maybe poking your head up(so to speak) might help you with the decisions ahead of you. I know plan B lovers will probably flame me but what does it hurt at this point. You can always go back to plan B....but if you are able to cool things off by communicating somehow it might be worth it. Just my un-educated opinion...take it or leave it. Best wishes ILF!!!

The D does not mean it's over. That's what your attorney is saving you form;...too much hurt during the D in case recovery begins before, during, or after the D.

Remember to protect that love you still have...

I agree, WW hasn't chosen OW over you, she has chosen herself.

There is a Sally Fields movie out there about a WW that destroys her M, alienates her family and D because she is SoooooooHappy!!! with the OM. She leaves with pretty much nothing, and when the R turns to doo doo, and her family is no longer there she ends up keeping house for a rich, hard-to-get-along-with woman, and can help her out later with her WH's A.

In my reading on here the WS likes to D as quickly as possible with as little as possible (through guilt and wanting to be happy).

The fact she wants to stick it to you, is perhaps her way in drawing you out in wanting to renew contact...to keep things the way they were. She is tenacious.

So, I guess, my take, is she is not acting like a woman that WANTS to D, but she wants to engage you any way she can. Just my thought... it's like a sick game of chicken. Stall, stall, stall.

Folks,

Remember one thing his W has filed for D. So second guessing her reasoning doesn't make much sense. Further, FGG has been talking to her for 5 years through 2 A's about working on the marriage AND having NC with the second OM. None of this has come to anything.

FGG is in a limited situation with a potential to get really messed over by her attorney,and his W has shown NO compassion for him through all of this.

It is clearly his decision to make, but slowing this down may do nothing but insure that she will NEVER come back. There is no way to tell. So he is left to make his decision or actually react to HER decisions. 5 years of infidelity is a long time especially when he was aware of it for many of those years.

I am not argueing that he SHOULD divorce her, because that issue is now moot. She has filed and as he says it could be over in a little as 30 days. He could delay but beside costing him money there is no indication that his W will see any reason to get over her infactuation with OM.

This is a big mess with not much way to get a handle on it. It is up to FGG to see what this "feels" like on his side is my opinion.

FGG, I sure wish there was a way out of this, but I suspect that way will only become clear as the wheels that have been set in motion turn for awhile.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mimi said: I am speechless for a change.

What a tragedy, how sad for you, when you put it this way.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However, I think her message to me is that if she MUST choose between me and OM, she chooses OM.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think my FWH chose the OW over me at one point especially when he went to live with her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FGG, GG, Carl - (((((HUG)))))

Yes, I understand all of it, the confusion, the pain, the ...."you name it."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On Friday (2 days ago)I went to the OM's place of business and found my WW's car there. I then decided that waiting for a confrontation later was probably a waste of time. Besides her sneaking back to him was hurting too much and draining my LB. So I went in to confront them. Everything was handled in as loving a manner as I could, calm, no shouting, just explaining how wrong what they were doing is in the sight of God. He asked her "What do you want?" and she said "I want you." With that I told her that she needed to come home and pack her things and move out to her apartment. I went home to await her arrival.
After she finished packing, I thanked her for the past 27 years. I carried her things down to her car and packed it for her. I then told her I loved her and asked her if I could hug her one last time and give her one last kiss. She agreed and I did so. As she prepared to leave I told her that I will be praying several times every day for her, that I would tell each of our 4 children about the separation and the reason for it. I then told her that she needed to know that she was taking with her all of my love, all of heart and half of my soul. With that she left and drove out of my life. The pain is intense and I dread having to tell the children, but there is no alternative now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Brother, there is, as near as I can determine from your postings, NO communication of any substantive nature between you and your wife.

You MAY wind up divorced, but will you stand before Christ and say that you tried everything? This battle was, and still is, a spiritual battle that you have been fighting on the human secular front. It is possible that your wife is so far ensnared, or that she never truly had accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior, but I don't think so. I think we have two stubborn people here who put up the walls and now don't know how to take them down.

WHAT has been "J's" report? What has been said and how has your wife reacted? Hopefully "J" has, in fact, been talking with your wife, but I've seen nothing in your posts to indicate that yet. I also have seen nothing about the Pastor meeting with her. You are both pursuing the secular "answer" of divorce, but who is speaking on Christ's behalf?

Carl, it is NOT over yet, but someone has to decide which is more important at this point, stubborn pride or humble servant-hood. Even though it may not be "wanted" right now, perhaps it is time for some "foot washing" even though you ARE the faithful spouse.

Carl, I would like to talk to your wife. Is there any way that can be arranged, email, etc.?

God bless. Lean not unto your own understanding during this time.

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

Good Morning to all –

Well, that is really strange, but here goes. Fasten your seatbelts.

#1S called me yesterday afternoon while I was on the way home. He asked what the lawyer’s office had told me, so I reiterated the receptionist opened the package from WW’s attorney while I was on the phone and told me she had filed for divorce. #1S said he called Mom and that she denies filing for divorce, that she had filed for “separate maintenance”. So, I called the attorney’s office, got the receptionist and ask her if she was sure this was a filing for a divorce and she said “yes”. I asked her to please check the paper work again. She read through it again and said, “Oops, it says she has filed for separate maintenance”. My attorney is to call me this morning and tell me exactly what that means. However, I suspect that I know what it means. She continues in her lifestyle at my expense while continuing with OM.

I thought about this a long time last night. I called #2S and told him I wasn’t coming, told him what was going on. I stayed home last night and finished painting my L/R walls (still have trim to do) and thought about this whole thing.

I am going to talk to my pastor this morning (to correct the misinformation), and I’m going to talk to the attorney when he calls. My CA’er is telling me there will be 2X4’s, but sorry folks.

I am not willing to capitulate to the concept of me continuing to financially support her continued relationship with OM. I think the idea that she is going to “come to her senses”, “get over this”, or whatever while I’m footing her bills and she’s working 4 hours a day is unrealistic. As someone recently said on this post, the best indicator of future performance is past behavior – and her past behavior has not shown any indication of her ending this any time soon (like in our lifetime). I believe the best thing for her right now (and the best hope for our marriage) is to have to face reality, which a cushy separation certainly isn’t going to do. I reiterate my earlier position that this will serve as nothing more than enabling her further.

When I spoke to my pastor yesterday, he again was talking about her R with #1OM. He said it was almost like she had a “stalker” mentality. And...for the past 3 years since that ended, she has continued to blame everyone else involved and how it was all their fault because they didn’t handle it properly. She developed a real hatred for the associate pastor who confronted her about #1OM. BTW – He is the one that both boys choose to perform their wedding ceremonies. And, of course, I am still the “cause” of the whole thing beginning with #1OM in the first place.

To that end, I will instruct my attorney to continue with my previous instruction to file for the divorce. If it goes through, I am prepared (and ready) for that. If not, I am prepared to work on our marriage WITHOUT another man involved.

F/H – I’m not going to turn this into a long debate with you, but I do want to say a couple of things. As Coach pointed out, I think I am a great deal at fault for creating a spoiled brat. If I end up in another relationship, I will NOT do that again. However, the word(s) for the day are “free will” and “personal accountability”. My wife is very capable of choosing whether or not she will be a faithful wife. I am (stubbornly if you wish) not willing to negotiate on this point. There is no middle ground, but she is so accustomed to getting her own way that the concept of her being “wrong” is foreign to her (think Leona Helmsley).

Not to belittle any theological prowess you may have, but the list of folks who have directly confronted her about the sinfulness of her actions is impressive. And yet, she chooses to believe she is right. And....God understands her heart and brought her and OM together on the internet. I think, F/H, that you have a hard time grasping the reality of situation. You may recall that “everyone” says she is wrong because we live in a culturally conservative part of the world where people don’t understand the kind of relationship she has with OM. In other words, all Christians in the SE US could show her where she is scripturally erring and it wouldn’t make any difference because “we” are all predisposed to not being able to understand.

Likewise, you may recall that on the second day of counseling with SH, she had him pegged as having a “gimmick” going on and not what we need to help us with our marriage. Of course, the first MC I saw she declared a “fool and an idiot”. I highly suspect that if I acquiese to any type of MC while her R with OM is ongoing we would shop until we found a MC who would condone her actions. I think she would like this.

And...to continue to suggest that this is being fought on the secular front is quite unfortunate. Perhaps you aren’t aware that when I would pray with WW, if I didn’t pray for OM, she would be highly offended. She would tell me that she didn’t like the way I prayed, but during the #1OM days I got to hear all about how his prayers were so genuine and deeply spiritual. And of course, now I get to hear about how the God of Islam is the same as the God of the Bible (sorry Curiosity, no offense intended), etc. And, when I accompanied them to church in Vancouver she was offended that she wasn’t able to attend church with him without me tagging along.

I think it wise to realize that the Biblical truths you (and I) espouse REQUIRE personal action in order to make a difference in a life. God is yet to force His will on anyone, but He offers it freely. She continues to CHOOSE to reject His guidance and truths in her life.

Okay, I’m beginning to ramble now. The point is...I CHOOSE to work on our marriage if we can do so with one man and one woman. I CHOOSE not to if my wife CHOOSES to continue her relationship with OM. Even though there is NO communication between us right now, it has been within the past few weeks that she has AGAIN questioned why OM / OMW can’t live with us.

Georgia

Nothing to say - 'cept I'm still here reading.

Congrats on finishing the painting. These days I find it hard to finish anything.

I haven't done a lick of real work in a week, I think. I'm amazed that you can work.

-AD

Good Morning, Georgia:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think I am a great deal at fault for creating a spoiled brat. If I end up in another relationship, I will NOT do that again </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a question. What is it that you exactly will not do again if I may ask? I don't buy that this can be attributed to her being a spoiled brat BTW. She is addicted to the OM.

This is me being a defensive SPOILED BRAT GODDESS and loving it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm saying that I don't think you erred in being giving, loving and attentive to your W.

I don't think you are having issues with CA this morning. WHEW! I know there's a Scripture somewhere about how sinners have to come to GOD on their own. I hear you saying that and I agree.

I continue not to understand your need to file for DIVORCE. Sounds like your WW wants to work out a separation agreement- which is what I ended up getting. How come you can't work out an agreement that is not enabling to her and hold off on the divorce? Is that doable? If it is, why are you being so quick to end things?

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Oh man....I've got a defensive P.D.G. ....

Okay, a few things..

1. I've almost exclusively done all house work for years, while she sat at the computer.
2. For the last number of years, I've either cooked or taken her out each night. Maybe once a month she cooked a meal. She expected this.
3. I've bought her anything her heart desires.
4. Each night, I would pamper her to sleep. Foot massages, back rubs, whatever. She NEVER returned this favor to me.
5. I never requested that she work and contribute to any household finances.
6. I allowed her to continue with #1OM and helped her keep it quiet from family.
7. I've done all yard work.
8. I've keep the cars clean and fueled so she wouldn't have to stop and pump gas herself.
9. She did the laundry, but would return to the computer while the clothes were in the washer/dryer.

Is that enough?

I don't see anything wrong with the things you were doing, IF you were happy to do these things and did not resent having to do it. The problem was with her, she did not appreciate a good thing while she had it. You might have spoiled her, but she choose to be a brat. Please don't let this experience sour you on what a good husband you were/are. Doing nice things for the woman you love is wonderful and shouldn't be something that you regret. I love to do things for my H just to make him happy.

My FWH is doing all of the above except #6. Does that mean that I am at risk for having an A? Maybe that's why he doesn't want me on the computer when he is at home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I edited my previous note and asked a few more questions.

I agree with kloe!

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

FGG -

This may be a totally useless suggestion, but since your lawyer seems to be different than most lawyers - could you talk to him about proposing a settlement in regards to seperate maintenance...

perhaps - agree to separate maintenance for a set length of time with the stipulation that you and WW attend spiritual marriage counseling and that you BOTH participate fully with the marriage counselors directions that will enable you to repair your marriage. This is assuming that any marriage counselor worth his/her salt will require your WW to not have any contact with OM.

Just a thought - I think most judges these days would love to see this kind of thing proposed in their court room.

GG,

On the theme of spoiling, I have 2 observations:

1) OM will have a very very hard time replacing you. It won't take long for her to realize she messed up a very good thing.

2) I agree with you (disagree with Mimi) that spoiling your wife is a problem. I did the same thing. I think that the more a person puts into a relationship, the more they are attached to the relationship. You didn't expect anything from your W - and she didn't give much. Thus, since she didn't put much into it, she didn't value it. I have also read this concept in some of the books - possibly in Michelle Wiener-Davis's book.

So, maybe #1 won't happen - because maybe your W wanted to do something for somebody. All of this happened after the nest became empty. Maybe she didn't do anything for you, but she probably did do a lot for the boys. When they were gone, she had nobody to do things for (since you didn't expect it and apparently didn't need it). Nobody needed her. Maybe I'm completely off base here.

-AD

Georgia left out what his wife gave to him. In other posts, he speaks highly of her as a wife and a mother.

I do think Georgia was focusing on the negative today. He was completely out of his CA role.

BTW, me being defensive again, while my FWH definitely "spoils" me, I take good care of him in ways that he likes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think that I just need to take a break from this today.

Some days, I just feel like I'm all over the place, this is one of those days.

Mimi is right, she has been a great wife and mother, up until #1OM.

Let me leave it at that for right now.

Thank you all for your continued prayers and kindness. I will be back.

Georgia