Good Morning all –

First, let me begin with a lighter note. Last nights pottery class was wonderful. I spent the evening working on the pottery wheel and that is where I think my love for this is going to lie. Plus, I brought home the pieces that I had been working on as they are all glazed and fired. And, perhaps the most import, all the “students” returned so it’s the same gang again. I really value the friendship of these folks and we all have such a good time just letting our hair down and unwinding. We’re a diverse group for sure, couple of drs (one male, one female), several young ladies (late 20’s), etc. About 10-12 of us, but we all clown around and have so much fun.

Now, on to real stuff.

FYR, you continue to truly amaze me that you have such keen insight and understanding of WW’s mindset. I think everything you say about her is right on. It is INCREDIBLE to me the way she can bring up very, very small things from decades ago and rehash them now as though they are justification for her actions. I will read your post many times and digest, but here is some things that I think are significant and important.

When #1S talked to WW on Monday, he told me that he again tried to get through the fog to her. He reminded her that even she had admitted that what she is doing is wrong. She replied that she was “manipulated” into saying that and she didn’t mean it.

She left me a voice mail Monday afternoon. She wanted to know why I told #1S that she was divorcing me, and that she wants to work on this marriage, but not as long as I have the anger in me that I have right now. Of course, no mention of OM.

Also, I did send the e-mail to her late yesterday that I had posted here. At the end of it, as well, I tagged on some very brief info about some bills that I had paid. Here is what I wrote (at the end as a P.S.):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">XXX has been paid.
I paid XXX $417.00
I will contact XXX and take care of those charges.
I will pay the XXX bill, as well.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been anxious to get to work this morning to see her response to yesterday’s e-mail as this was the most significant piece of communication (I thought) since the Plan B letter. Here is her response to me in its entirety:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">does that mean you want me to pay the car tag and phone bill from the joint checking account?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Before all the 2X4’s (Mimi) about the financial communication. I think I am walking a thin line to avoid the consequences of “abandonment”. My attorney says it is important that I pay normal bills to avoid this charge, but WW has already said that her attorney has suggested that I have abandoned her. So...I am trying to be VERY careful to not lend any credence to that accusation.

However, I was sorely disappointed that she chose not to even mention the important stuff. I still haven’t heard back from my attorney. When I do, I will have a lot of questions for him and a “go-forward” plan.

There is a situation with my kids that is troubling me. #1S/DIL are really, really fed up with Mom. He has told me on more than one occasion that I am certainly justified in D’ing her and that he would have done it before now. But...#2S/DIL, also really fed up with her, feel that forever is not too long to wait if she MIGHT want to come back to me some day. They have repeatedly told me that they will love me and support me no matter my decision, but #2DIL wrote me a long letter telling me that forever is not too long to wait for WW if I truly love her.

My temptation, as a CA’er, is to take a poll to decide my course of action. However, this has presented me with more than a little concern. No matter the outcome of the M, I want to assure my R with my kids (and future grandkids) is intact.

During my last session with SH, he told me to expect her to do whatever she could to “knock me off my track”. I think we are really seeing that right now, and some of it really gets to me. She’s invited me (via e-mail) to spend Friday with her as she’s out of school. Also, she talked in her e-mail about sitting on the deck and the yellow daffodils that I planted blooming around the pond, and the pansies are still in bloom on the deck. She knows these are the things that mean “home” to me and I long to stick my hands in dirt and plant stuff. I miss that so terribly much. Spring is my favorite time of year because I love to plant and do yard stuff. I’m thinking of at least getting some big pots for my front porch and planting petunias.

BTW – I haven’t talked with SH again recently, but I don’t see the point in it right now. Everything is what he said to expect, and I am following his guidance (still) from our last session. Remember, he condoned (and said it was time for) the filing for D as “shock therapy” (his words).

On the “fight” front, I am still willing to give her 50% of all assets we gained together. However, I do not wish to live in poverty the rest of my life to support her forever. I WILL instruct my attorney to do whatever, as aggressively as need be, to minimize alimony. As you may recall, if WW went (alone) to visit OM, GA courts would assume “adultery” and she would get NO alimony. (Perhaps I should set up a phony “YOU HAVE WON AN ALL EXPENSE PAID TRIP TO VANCOUVER!!!!” contest and get her there.

Okay, enough for now. FYR, you are amazing and definitely join the ranks of Mimi as Goddess.

Georgia

GG,
I haven't posted to you before, but I've been following your thread.

Before you moved out, you posted that your wife was coming in late at night and you didn't know where she could have been. Is it possible that the OM may have come to Georgia at that time? It strikes me that if he is looking at your wife as the goose with the golden egg, he would somehow get himself down to Georgia to "seal the deal".

It might be worthwhile to see if a PI couldn't check to see if he left Vancouver for Georgia during that time frame.

LC

Hi Georgia:

I'm so glad for you finding your pottery class. That sounds like fun! I didn't have the opportunity to discover such a great outlet!

Sounds like Princess Georgia is trying to commence ongoing E-Mails with you by asking you that stupid question. As we all know, she can figure out how to pay those bills. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I am walking a thin line to avoid the consequences of “abandonment”. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was concerned about this when you left home but didn't say anything, thinking that your attorney had advised you accordingly. You are rightly concerned since you say that she is not LEGALLY adulterous as far as you know.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My temptation, as a CA’er, is to take a poll to decide my course of action </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think your decision should be based on what is best for you. IMO, your children need to focus on their own lives and their own marriages!
APPROPRIATE BOUNDARIES NEED TO BE ERECTED!!!

Where is your WW sending these E-MAILS? Are they to your company? Seems like you need to block her access. Does it make you feel better to know that she is still a CAKE-EATER? YUK!! She's not chosen the OM over you as you were stating yesterday.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’m thinking of at least getting some big pots for my front porch and planting petunias.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a necessity! Get those hands in the dirt!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Life goes on!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On the “fight” front, I am still willing to give her 50% of all assets we gained together However, I do not wish to live in poverty the rest of my life to support her forever. I WILL instruct my attorney to do whatever, as aggressively as need be, to minimize alimony. As you may recall, if WW went (alone) to visit OM, GA courts would assume “adultery” and she would get NO alimony. (Perhaps I should set up a phony “YOU HAVE WON AN ALL EXPENSE PAID TRIP TO VANCOUVER!!!!” contest and get her there </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now I understand the legal concerns. I agree with all of this. 50% of assets sounds fair and reasonable. That's sort of fixed income for her. If she wants to blow it all on OM so be it. The problem is the alimony issue. This is what takes you to court, doesn't it? The judge needs to hear about the EA. (Light-bulb moment!!) It wouldn't be a bad idea to somehow get her to Vancouver. That's the first place that she will go when she gets the funds or maybe he has been here like Lady is stating. Were they ever alone during your visit? Wonder what his wife has to say about this? It might not hurt to have a talk with her....Just Wondering....

FPG (Faux Princess Georgia) is sending e-mails to my work address. I've purposefully NOT blocked those to allow one timy thread of communication to allow for financial issues to be dealt with.

I am paying normal household bills to avoid abandonment accusations. However, I purposefully didn't address the phone bill as I figure her and SM (soul-mate) can work that out between them.

Do I feel better? Not really, the constant tugging different ways is extremely tiring and distracting. Today, I'm in the mood that tells myself that I've been a fool to put up with this for so long and it is WAY past due for me to divorce her. However, stay tuned for tomorrow's attitude and it'll be different, I'm sure.

I never did find out (or try to find out) where she was all those nights. She only had a few minutes alone with OM in Vancouver while I was there, and that was standing in the hallway of their apartment building while I talked to OMW. There is no need in talking with OMW, I know how she feels as she's already told me.

On the kids issue, I know what you are saying is true. Even though I'm saying I'm making decisions, what options do I have at this point? (I could use a 2Long Fault Tree here.) If I say, No, I'm not going to divorce her. Then, I get to roll the dice to see how much I pay to support her to continue living in OUR dream house, at my expense, while maintaining contact with OM and very likely having him at least come here for a while, if not move here (into MY house).

Humm...next option. File for divorce and see if she wants OM bad enough to be divorced. Take my chances on a judge awarding her some reasonable & temporary amount of alimony, and let her complete her fantasy.

I choose option #2.

Georgia

Georgia:

I now fully understand your reasoning behind OPTION #2.

Could you refresh me on the thinking of OM's W? Do you think she continues to feel the same given that you are now separated and there is a possibility of OM moving into YOUR house or is she planning on making it a threesome?

Okay, on the OMW issue.

She is a very, very sweet lady. However, very demure and submissive. In front of OM, she would say that she had no problem at all with WW & OM relationship. However...

When I got those few moments alone with her, it was a totally different story. She wishes that he would get a job to keep him off the phone and the computer. "All he does is sit here on that computer all day. I hate that computer. Etc". Plus, how hard it is to make ends meet on $1200 (CDN) a month. And, she knows that he wants to "eventually" divorce her.

She ASKED my opinion on whether or not I thought it a good idea that they move here. I told her I didn't think so, that OM & WW had a very dangerous relationship. She wants to go wherever he can get a job, and he's convinced her that it is right here in good ol' Georgia. I told her that in his field, there was less opportunity here than other parts of the US, such as the LA area.

Anyway, you get the point. They fight like cats and dogs, he tells her openly that he wants a D, so is scared to death of being left out in the cold with no money (even though she is the sole breadwinner).

Georgia

I'm wondering if she could tell you whether he has taken any trips lately or whether he is planning any trips?

That is an interesting idea. I will bring this idea to my attorney. However, I'm not going to contact her until there is an immediate reason to do so.

I wish I could "secretly" talk with her, but I know now that she's not good at secrets. Remember that night long ago that I left the house and went to a motel? That was the night that WW, OM, and OMW was having a big fight over the phone about what she (OMW) did / did not say to me while I was with her. She was swearing to OM that she didn't tell me that she was not okay with the R, and he was apparently threatening to leave her that night.

Man...bringing back these old memories convinces me more and more that Option 2 is the right one.

Georgia

FYR:

"I think your wife is similar in some ways to 2Long’s wife. 2Long – correct me if I’m wrong – but your sitch seems to have everything going ok..as long as you don’t have demands? She never did a true NC letter? Doesn’t she blame you a lot for the ‘bondage’ of her being in an M? I find it almost painful to read 2Long’s sitch because his wife..and I pray 2Long does not take offense..but his wife seems to suffer from major entitlement and it’s all about her. I read the things he does for his wife..and it only serves to raise the bar in what she expects…there is very little reciprocation or true and long lasting interest in meeting her mate’s needs and being concerned as a wife should be for his feelings."

That's pretty much it. No offense taken at all.

-ol' 2long

2Long -

You're not married to my wife, are you?

Georgia

GG,

This may sound strange, but divorcing your wife now may help preserve your feelings of love for her. My concern if you do a separation is that you will be resentful that you are supporting her in her current bad choices. It would be very different if she showed any action that she was interested in saving your marriage. But her actions say she's not.

Separation, would only cushion her from the consequences of her actions. I so wish she would say Ok to NC and counseling with SH. But so far she wants everything on her terms. And wants you to finance it as well.

In my case my 1st husband was an alcoholic. As I've mentioned in the past I tried for 7 years to help him kick his addiction. Only when I exhausted every effort on my part, did I decide it was too unhealthy for me to continue in that marriage. Secretly I hoped that by filing for divorce he would choose ME over the alcohol finally.

Well he didn't...UGh! I was heartbroken because I felt rejected even though I knew it was an addiction. He simply never hit rock bottom as long as we were married, because I couldn't help myself from catching him when he fell.

Fast forward 4 months later after I filed for divorce. He called one day to tell me that his boss gave him a choice of being fired or going into rehab. He chose rehab! Because I had enough love left for him I went through the entire rehab process with him to support him. I had enough love left to make that effort; and I'm so glad I did. I had all the peace you can imagine as I moved forward with my life. I can honestly look back with no regrets in my efforts to help him.

So oddly enough, my ability to let go and proceed with divorce - left me with enough strength to help him when he finally overcame his addiction.

My hope is the same for you! Strength to help your wife when she finally overcomes her addiction.

<small>[ March 09, 2005, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

CSUE:

You make a good point. I understand what you are saying.

I'm guessing you've really thought this through. There are some bills you can take care of that show you are not abandoning the home, and htere are others you don't need to...

For instance, cover mortgage, electric, water/sewer, gas...or cover that percentage of your income you brought to the M...

The phone, cable, internet service, cell phone are non-essentials and should be covered by her.

From what I've read on here, it is common for hte separation terms to be used as a guide for hte D terms...so be careful about how things are split up alimony-wise. Don't offer any money to help with bills over an above those house bills (maintenance). Is there a way your lawyer can write in that the house needs to be put up for sale? Or should be sold in the case of D?

My guess, and stemming from CSue's post, one of the only ways to get the FGG princess, high horse riding, fencesitting misstress OFF is to sell her out of her comfortable home and comfortable lifestyle...

One of the best things you can hope for is that she goes to 'visit'/live with the OM and the A starts to tarnish...she'll start to appreciate you and will you be there for her? That is the question, and why you are in Plan B now...why you refrain from hearing her voice, or words about her from DS's and friends...

ARGGGGGG..............

The attorney finally called, we had just started talking and my cell rang. It was WW. Of course, I didn't answer it.

Then, my desk phone rang, I didn't answer it.

Then, the receptionist paged me, I didn't answer.

Then, one of the other guys came in (my door was closed), said your wife is on the phone with an emergency. So...I told the lawyer I'd call him back and I took WW's call. Seems one of her tires is low and she needed to know where I bought the tires.

Okay, back to the lawyer stuff. I told him to respond to her paper for separate maintenace with a petition for divorce. I will meet with him next Tuesday to discuss our strategy. The initial court date is March 28.

So....the ball is rolling.

I'm about to leave a few minutes early. Thank you all for your thoughts, they do mean a lot to me.

Let me say this. When I reach one of these points (like today) when I can say...okay, that's it, this is over, I find it oddly "peaceful", like there is some resolution at long last. That's when some of you start saying "why the rush to divorce?" All I know is this roller coaster ride is, IMO, harder to take than knowing where this is all going, even if it's divorce.

Good night, folks.

Georgia

As some of you may recall, I ended up putting our "dream house" up for sale and it sold on the first day. FWH ended up finding out who my realtor was and investigating what houses I was looking at to move into...leading to the end of my PLAN B.

It would be a wakeup call for her for you to be willing to sacrifice the house with plans of moving on to buying an old house to restore. She could eventually come and live in another house with you like my FWH has done.

Selling the house would be part of splitting the "assets".

FGG:

No, I'm not, but they are quite similar... ...as are all WSs.

CSue:

Sadly, since As are also addictions, I find myself wondering whether LTAs are any more recoverable from than alchoholism.

STMI:

I can understand the Harley recommended timeframes for their plans now. I can see that if my W were 2 go live with RM, yep, the A would begin 2 tarnish bigtime. But I'd be done. Flat out.

I would like 2 believe that I would want 2 help, though, like CSue supported her xH. At that level, at least.

-ol' 2long

Good Morning -

The attorney has put into the paperwork to be filed that the house is to be sold. Also, even though GA is a "no fault" state, there still has to be a reason to file. Such as adultery, abandonment, irreconcilable differences, etc. And, any circumstances that is to be part of the presentation to the judge must be in the papers when files. So, I've filed for "I/D" with a notation that WW has a long standing relationship with another man that she has refused to end even after multiple requests from her husband.

Also, I am going to call my pastor and ask if he will write a letter to the attorney detailing what he knows about the R between WW and #1OM.

I think it is time that I start building as much of a fortress as possible to protect myself against the attacks of R/A (rabid attorney).

I am thinking of getting "character" letters from my boss, our HR manager, maybe some of "our" long-time friends, etc. I have not discussed any of this with the attorney yet, but time is short and I'd rather be proactive and overprepared.

BTW - The attorney read me some snippets from her filing yesterday. I don't recall all detials, but she is asking for me to pay for housing expenses, transporation expenses, and permanent alimony. Sounds like a divorce, but all this for "separate maintenace". Perhaps it is like SHMI says, this is to be their prelim guide to the permanent settlement. I will do everything I can to minimize alimony. Also, I have ONLY been paying those bills considered as "essential". I don't have cable, internet, home pest control, home phone, etc. So, I've not paid those things for her either.

I am now opening the floor for suggestions on what to discuss with the attorney next Tuesday. I will begin preparing myself a list so I will be prepared.

CSue - That is a sad story you tell, so sorry for the pain you must have endured. So, FH did end up breaking his addiction? Did you get back together? Inquiring minds...well, you know.

I will really hate to speculate right now what I would IF we divorce, she goes to OM (or vice versa), the shine wears off, then she shows up on my front porch one day and announces her decision with great fanfare that maybe I wasn't so bad after all. Would I embrace her and welcome her back as my life-long partner, or would I launch her right across the bannisters into the front yard and sic Jeb on her? I don't know.

Okay, advice solicited and welcome.

Georgia

I know you'd hate to have to go there, but have you considered seeking suggestions for hte D/Ding board? I'll bet there are some folks form GA that could give great advice.

I'm NOT trying to get rid of you...pleasse stay here too...just some other words. There are many folks on that board that don't venture here (and vice versa).

Suggestions? Hold onto that love you have...look at her behavior as an addiction...she is sick.

There's no reason for her to keep the house...the boys are grown and on their own...

As far as alimony, if this gets to be a sticky point, you can recommend alimony for 4 years (until she can get a college degree) to HELP pay for living expenses, but not entirely. I thought alimony was a thing of the past...not given out as often, or as much these days...I may be wrong.
You can look at a couple of different deals to get her to agree to them...that is what it comes down to, an out of court settlement you both can agree to.

You come up with what you think is fair, then offer less than that...a negotiation.
You can always give more after the D if she needs it, but you can't give less...

Thanks, SHMI...

Now that we are this intense, I will have more specific conversations with the attorney on Tuesday.

He also had stated the "go in low, negotiate" mentality.

I know the initial papers that I signed had stated the house is to be sold, an equitable split of assets, and NO alimony. Of course, we'll see where the "middle ground" is in due time.

I may start another thread over on the D boards, but I still solicit the input of all my friends here.

Georgia

Found this on the site lokking for something else...it's a quote form Dr. Harley's answer to letters about how an A begins.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There are some who feel that those feelings of love are a signal from God to abandon past relationships and rush into this new relationship. But it's no signal from God. Instead, it's the way our emotions mindlessly encourage us to spend more time with those who meet our emotional needs. If we submitted to our emotions, and chased after anyone who at the moment deposited the most love units in our Love Banks, our lives would become chaotic in no time. And the lives of family and friends, to say nothing about our own lives, would be trashed </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">