Wow, I didn't expect to have to debate a GODDESS on this one...now I'm really shaking in my boots. But, here goes....

This is my opinion.

Yes, I agree that ANY church is made up of nothing more than mere mortals. However, they are there (presumably) for one purpose, and that is the worship of God. In the pursuit of this worship, they will be taking part in various forms of ministry. Taking part may mean either "receivng from" or "giving to", but they are playing a part in ministry activities.

Again, in my opinion, taking part in singing hymns/choruses (as recorded in the Psalms), listinging to a sermon (as delivered by Paul, John, Peter, Jesus, etc.), be with fellow Christians, etc. is of paramount importance for the LONG TERM growth of a Christian. (Short term effects are usually the equivalent of a "latent failure" (2Long - especially for you)). In other words, the effects of loss of church affiliation is usually not noticeable, but hard to recover from once they are noticed.

In summary, church is the ONLY place that I go where people are like-minded. Even the folks on this site, as great as they are, may not share this world-view with me. People at work certainly don't, media influence certainly doesn't....

Speaking for myself, I NEED the support I receive by being around fellow Christians.

And...I WANT my boys / DIL's to KNOW that Dad is in church on Sunday. I think it sets a good example, and now that they are out on their own I want them to continue to see that example from me.

MIMI - Do you not find this to be true?

Okay, balls' in your court.

Georgia

Georgia:

Think of it this way. Replace your WW with OUR CHURCH. It's scary how they, the mortals there, betrayed us. We are fearful of it happening again. Trying to recover from that. It was devastating.

Wow, we were the among the most dutiful members. There for every service and program for years.

Churchgoing is so engrained in our boys that they continue to go. A local minister came by my office the other day and told me that my YS had attended his church during Xmas vacation from college and I didn't even know it. Asked me how my son was doing... I was shocked!!

Mimi, I may be fortunate in that the folks at my church didn't have opportunity to disappoint me in that I left the church.

Again, however, I think my previous arguments are valid. I know it is hard, but I think church attendance is very important.

I am thankful for the folks I have met at my new church. I would hate to think I am going through this without the support of a local church.

Georgia

Mimi, I may be fortunate in that the folks at my church didn't have opportunity to disappoint me in that I left the church.

Again, however, I think my previous arguments are valid. I know it is hard, but I think church attendance is very important.

I am thankful for the folks I have met at my new church. I would hate to think I am going through this without the support of a local church.

Georgia

Georgia:

No debate from me on your points.

I'll keep praying to come up with the right path to take on this.

Lost my faith in people but not GOD.

Okay, Mimi...

I take it you have no comment on my phone log discovery. Actually, I'm kinda seeing red over that myself (that means angry). I'm working right now on getting my big ol' phone log book ready for the attorney.

On the pastor issue. I talked to my pastor and he says he makes it a policy to not get involved in legal process in any way to protect his status as a confidential pastor. However, the attorney may call him and he will discuss "off the record" what he does know about the #1OM episode.

And...my lawyers office called and they are trying to reschedule for Thursday. However, I am in ATL all day Thursday, so they're trying to come up with something else and call me back. I told the receptionish that it was critical that I see him this week as our hearing is Monday AM.

Georgia

Hi FGG:

"Again, in my opinion, taking part in singing hymns/choruses (as recorded in the Psalms), listinging to a sermon (as delivered by Paul, John, Peter, Jesus, etc.), be with fellow Christians, etc. is of paramount importance for the LONG TERM growth of a Christian."

Certainly AS a Christian. I don't disagree.

"(Short term effects are usually the equivalent of a "latent failure" (2Long - especially for you))."

Can't say I get this.

"In other words, the effects of loss of church affiliation is usually not noticeable, but hard to recover from once they are noticed."

This either.

I stopped going 2 church at about age 21 when I realized that my motivation was primarily 2 socialize with friends who also attended church. Churches are comprised of people, it's true. And socialization - or fellowship - with other like-minded people is good. But I was also realizing that I'd been uncomfortable for several years with the teachings, so that was when I stopped going.

I went through a period of a few years after that where I agonized over "what if" kinds of things - like what if I got really sick? (I was a Christian Scientist). But those fears even2ally faded.

Next, I went through a period of perhaps 10 years or so when I was rather antagonistic 2ward organized religion - feeling very much like the lyrics 2 the song "Stand Up For Judas", which I won't post here but you can search it out on the internet if you're interested. But I was never comfortable with that atti2de for obvious reasons (2 me, at least).

Nowadays, I enjoy reading about spiri2ality (got interested when Spacecase suggested Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" as reading material). I enjoy objective discussions about spiri2ality, even about religion, so long as they don't get bogged down in "rules and regulations" or worse, intolerance of other religions or belief systems.

We're all down here trying 2 figure stuff out. The reward is in the journey... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Thanks, 2Long, for your thoughts. I'll come back to them later.

I have had to reschedule my attorney (at his request) for Friday morning (11:00 AM).

However, I'm going to run by on my way home to drop off one of these phone logs for him to review before then.

Georgia

Good Morning -

I stopped by the lawyer's office yesterday afternoon and dropped off the phone log. I was able to speak to him for a few minutes and he looked it over. He was amazed that they could talk for an average of 3 hours a day. He and I will talk on Friday, but I plan to suggest that if WW can talk on the phone 3 hours a day for months on end, she certainly has enough spare time to work over 4 hours a day.

Also....I couldn't help but notice that she called OM EVERY DAY from her cell phone the week after Christmas while she was visiting her parents. I am really tempted to tell her parents this, but it wouldn't serve any purpose. Plus, it might get back to her that I had detailed call logs from her cell phone.

And...this morning I have an e-mail message in my work account that my Yahoo password has been changed. Apparently she's up to her old tricks again. I assume that BellSouth must have notified her, probably by e-mail, that a new account had been set up because it was the Yahoo e-mail address I used.

I tried to log on to the BellSouth account this morning and it wouldn't work, I assume it has been deleted. So....I promptly registered again. The March statement should be posted today or tomorrow. It's not there yet.

Georgia

<small>[ March 22, 2005, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: Formerly G.G. ]</small>

FGG:

if she's changed the password, I would bet the account still exists and she's reading the mail in it. Why would she delete it?

-ol' 2long

Good Morning, Georgia:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I plan to suggest that if WW can talk on the phone 3 hours a day for months on end, she certainly has enough spare time to work over 4 hours a day. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like your thinking on this!

Hang in there! Your WW never ceases to amaze me. However, I continue to think that she is much like most of the WSes. My H was also insanely addicted....

Hi Mimi...

Thank you for your comments.

I must admit,when I saw in "black and white" the last 3 months of calls to OM, I came as close as I've come yet to being angry.

On the home phone only, she has spent 276 hours on the phone with him in the last 3 months. As Dec. 6 was when I gave her the Plan B letter detailing "NC", it is safe to assume she has spent WELL over 300 hours talking to him. I don't think she is likely to accept the "NC" idea anytime soon.

Another way to look at this: If she had been working those 300 hours, bring home about $10 / hour - she would now have $3,000 more income to support herself!! This will be suggested to the attorney.

Here is an idea I'd like to run by my legal minded friends. I am trying to think of how much to suggest to my attorney is a "reasonable" amount of alimony. My idea: If I used the per capita income for our county ($28,285), deducted her salary IF she were working full time at her current pay-rate, then suggest enough alimony to make up the discrepancy between her income and the county per capita income...would that make sense?

It would be something like this:

She makes about $750 month working 20 hours / week. So, if she worked full time, she should make about $1,500 month, or $18,000 annually. The disparity between her income and the per capita income would be $10,285...so I would suggest alimony of $850 / month.

Is this a logical argument? FYI...right now I'm paying about $2,000 - $2,500 month in household bills for her.

Feedback, please.

Georgia

And, while I'm on a roll here.

I sent myself an e-mail from my work account to my Yahoo account.

The subject line says "HI WW"!!!

The body says:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hi !!

Please don't change my passwords and read my e-mails any more.

You've had secret, password protected e-mail accounts for years.

If you need additional communication, please contact my attorney.

Georgia </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I being rude now, or what?

Georgia

Can't you make the argument to just pay her alimony until she is able to "get on her feet". Her job of wife and mother is finished!

I know I didn't say that, but I do indeed intend the alimony to be only temporary, perhaps 2 - 3 years.

What about my concept for the amount? Does that seem like a logical argument to you?

And...2Long, I need to clarify this issue about what account has been deleted. When I set-up the BellSouth on-line account, I used my Yahoo e-mail address. Today, when I tried to log on to the BellSouth acct that I set up yesterday, it was invalid. This is the account that she deleted. The Yahoo e-mail account is still valid, and working with the message in it directed to her if she breaks into it again. BTW - There is no communication that I care whether she reads or not, it's just the principle of the thing.

Georgia

<small>[ March 22, 2005, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Formerly G.G. ]</small>

I'm certainly not a legal thinker. I would look to hear from others on this.

In my state, there's a standard formula that is used, leaving little room for subjectivity. It was a percentage of the H's (that is you) income. That's how mine was calculated in my agreement with my FWH. It didn't matter what my income was. As long as I made less money than he did, he owed me a certain percentage of spousal support.

<small>[ March 22, 2005, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Georgia Alimony Attorney

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Marital fault is generally not a factor in deciding whether alimony should be awarded. The reason the courts do not generally consider marital fault in determining alimony is because the purpose of alimony is not to punish or reward the spouse requesting alimony. However, in Georgia, if the spouse requesting alimony committed adultery or deserted the other spouse and the adultery or desertion was the cause of the divorce, then their claim for alimony is defeated. Mitigating factors such as ability to earn, high marital debts to be paid, etc., may serve to make alimony unrealistic.

In Georgia, either party may choose to have a jury trial to determine the issue of whether and how much alimony should be awarded. An alimony award can be modified at a later date if the facts warrant it or if the parties agree to a modification. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thanks, Ragamuffin -

I've already gone to the Ga code web-site and printed out the pages having to do with the awarding of alimony (about 5 pages). I'll study them carefully. Not in my favor that I make so much more than her and we've lived in a "good" life.

However, there is no "formula" to determine the amount unless child support is involved. Lots of reasons for me to do my homework and be sure I'm prepared.

Georgia

All I can say is that she does not deserve a cent more than you have to pay her.

I've been getting angry lately myself.

The CA is dying a slow death! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BTW, Georgia, I had a FOW citing yesterday. She is looking fat and ugly, outside smoking a cigarette. SLEAZE! SHHHHH..... Don't tell anybody! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks, Mimi..

I am going to print your post and take it to court with me. I think the opinion of a real-live GODDESS may go far towards swaying the judges verdict !! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Too bad FOW is getting fat and ugly. Has she always been ugly, and is just now getting fat too? Or, is she really getting fat AND ugly all at the same time?

Funny thing about the smoking. OM smokes too. Isn't that strange? Kinda harkens WAY back to our early conversation that WW seems to prefer guys that are a little rough around the edges. I think I posted here that my Mom said WW might have liked it better if I had slapped her around some instead of treating her so good. You know, sometimes I believe there is some hint of truth in that.

Did FOW see you? It would be nice if she saw you looking fit and trim (J.Lo like) while she was standing outside smoking. Okay, I guess that is mean, isn't it?

Georgia