FIM:

Sorry to intrude on your thread here, but I have a question for you and others. Your husband has done and continues to do some incredibly despicable things, BUT IF he said "sorry" and moved back to Washington and asked for another chance would he be granted it by you. Isn't what he is doing considered "alien" behavior? Isn't what he is doing considered "not really him". If you buy all of this and especially the "cancer treatement" theory, doesn't this always give him an open door return pass? If you suscribe to the "fog" theory, wouldn't it be kind of unjust to NOT accept him back if he comes to his "senses" and is released from the "aliens"? Please don't think I am posting to start trouble, it is just that I CAN'T suscribe to the "alien" theory and I just want to see what your thoughts on it are here and NOW. I think you probably still think this is all "fog" and in your heart believe that your WH is a "great man and father still", but it is just the "aliens" or "fog" or "addiction" that have him so controlled. At what point does his "true character" start to take dings here and the "aliens" stopped being blamed. I am trying to learn something here. I feel so sorry for you, and in my own TYPE A personality way of dealing with things I would love to kick the proverbial $hit out of your husband for what he has done to you and your children. I read your story and I can't help but sigh. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Oh Faith, he is just being a SOB. There is no other word for it. OK, abandon the wife, terrible, but to hurt children like this and right before Christmas. I know that he was a good man in the past, but this is not the man that you married. Do what you have to to protect your family. Yes file for custody. Can you just file for separation and wait on the divorce? I know he is going to wake up, I just really don't know if you are going to want him back. He is making no effort at this point. That is plain to see so there is nothing you can do. It is in his court, and I just can feel your pain. I saw your photo on the MB thread. You will have no trouble finding a new man if you want one, but please wait at least two years. A great deal can happen and the good man you married could return. Minus the fog.

Should you take him back? Only if you can risk him doing this to you and the kids again. That is the threshold. You have been doing all the work.

I am certain that his affair is about to implode. I do not believe she has been deployed, I'll bet she went to see her family. I just don't believe him because he is still trying to hold on to you and can only do that by lying. So sad. (Who gets their tongue pierced...no offence, but that doesn't fly at his age).

Hang in there. Maybe you could find another Mom to watch your kids and you do the same for her. Maybe put a flyer up at a hospital...some night nurse might love to have a place her child could stay. Trading childcare might be your best bet if you can find a good person. I really wish you lived closer.

It is going to be OK. I just know it. Hugs.

Thanks, new jersey. I know I'm going to be okay. Do I think his relationship will last? No. But I do no want to have him back.

LM -

Nice to hear from you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope you're doing okay during this holiday season. I often think that even with everything going on in my life, I am blessed to have my children, to see Christmas through their eyes. They keep my spirits up.

To answer your question: no. I wouldn't take him back if he moved back here and said I'm sorry. I still believe he was a good man and a good father. He's not anymore. Could he change? Sure.

But, after all of this, I don't believe he'll ever be someone I want to share my life with. He'll always be part of it. But I do not want him as a partner.

I don't believe it goes against anything here to say enough is enough. We each have to find that point and this was it. I deserve better. Period.

I hope he changes and comes out of the "fog". I'm just not willing to walk forward with him from there.

No way will his relationship with the 23 year old last. Less than 3% of EMA relationships work out. She is under 25, strike 2, she isn't fully mature yet. Not a chance in He# will they be together in 2 years. Highly unlikely. Most likely is that she will break up with him, esp. if he is not divorced. She's the typical now that school or whatever is done time to get married girl-she is also escaping. That's why I'd separate, but not divorce-YET. Hugs-Jersey Girl....I've seen this at least 100X myself on the OW board-been lurking for years, makes me feel better knowing they really don't get their man.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by new jersey:
<strong> She's the typical now that school or whatever is done time to get married girl-she is also escaping. That's why I'd separate, but not divorce-YET. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting point <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . For the record I agree with you, this relationship won't last! No big revelation here. Ofcourse FIM should just do separation paperwork and not DIVORCE because alas the OW will surely dump him and he will want to come back and "change" right?. Why divorce him now for what he HAS DONE, when surely there is a 97% chance that the affair will die and usually this correlates with a sudden "change of heart" and desire to "change" Very interesting advice I must say.

LM

While I would never want to stand in the way of a full and satisfying recovery for any couple..there are a few things that are being overlooked, by all but FIM.

Mr FIM..has a history..that has gotten progressively worse throughout the entirety of their marriage. The good times look like they might have been nothing more than lulls..and I suspect more ONSs have occurred than the ..is it two? that she already knew about prior to this affair.

All conjecture of course..but..but..a pattern emerges, you don't have to work very hard at playing connect the dots. Mr FIM commits adultery with great ease..is a skilled liar and manipulator..and now appears to have truly gone off the deep end straight into full out child abandonment.

Rebuilding with this prognosis is a risky endeavor, imo. Long term success is unlikely without many years of IC and lots of hard work. In the mean time should she trust him with her body, future, and their children as well?

I shudder to think. Less a dork than a danger.

I'm so sorry FIM. I hope that you are feeling well, despite this great deflation of your hopes and dreams.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've seen this at least 100X myself on the OW board-been lurking for years, makes me feel better knowing they really don't get their man. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I went to that board the other night just see what these OW's think like...It made me SICK! I had nightmares all night long. I woke up in sweats...It is really very sick the way they think...They sit there and list reasons why they are sad for the MM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> because he is goiing grocery shopping with his wife...because he is renting a movie with his wife...because the weekend is here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

GROCERY SHOPPING! They are upset because the MM is going GROCERY SHOPPING with his WIFE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ARe you kidding me??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sorry, FIM, didn't mean to threadjack...{{{HUGS}}} back to the original topic now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by new jersey:
Not a chance in He# will they be together in 2 years. Highly unlikely. Most likely is that she will break up with him, esp. if he is not divorced. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The fate of this affair is hardly the issue.

The issue is her husband's lack of character.

If this affair ends tomorrow, FIM is still married to a man who is capable of inflicting deliberate damage onto his family in order for him to get his needs met.

This is not his 1st time cheating on FIM.

Who would stay married under those conditions?

Only the weakest of women.

A lot more has to change than simply ending this affair. The affair is a symptom of a much deeper sickness.

Pep

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> The fate of this affair is hardly the issue.

The issue is her husband's lack of character.

If this affair ends tomorrow, FIM is still married to a man who is capable of inflicting deliberate damage onto his family in order for him to get his needs met.

This is not his 1st time cheating on FIM.

Who would stay married under those conditions?

Only the weakest of women.

A lot more has to change than simply ending this affair. The affair is a symptom of a much deeper sickness.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DAMn GIRL.........You wanna bet if I wrote that post above I would be on tree hanging from a rope. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I wish I had your literary skills Pep. You have to love this f-ing place.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Very well said noodle,

This is a pattern, and I suspect he smelled a few flowers before he decided to yank this OW out of the garden (kindergarten).

How is your MIL taking this?

And you are a woman of action and probably have a very good plan in place now...

Yes, there is always room for reconciliation, and a D won't prevent that in the future. But a D now would mean damage control, would mean financial protection, would mean a D on paper. If you were M in the catholic church, doesn't that mean you are M for life?

I feel bad for the kids...no matter what anyone says, D is VERY hard on the kids. I counsel teenagers, and about 80% or more are from families of D (maybe more). This is not our specialty neccessarily, but it does create an environment of added stress for kids they wouldn't have to face in an intact family. I DON'T want you to feel guilty about any choice you make. Should you decide to wait for Dad and keep trying again and again will create it's own trauma and damage to the kids, especially the girls, who will grow up seeing men as untrustworthy and disrespectful which opens the situation for them to be VERY non-trusting (will cheat themselves or never truly open in an R) or will accept a person as an H which does not treat them respectfully (cheats, lies, etc.)

I agree with noodle, damage control...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StillHereMakingIt:
<strong> This is a pattern, and I suspect he smelled a few flowers before he decided to yank this OW out of the garden (kindergarten).

This made me laugh so hard I just about had my coffee coming out of my nose!

How is your MIL taking this?

Well, my MIL is praying. She's keeping a novena going to the Holy Trinity and is praying at least a few hours a day over this. I have never known a more faith filled woman. She believes in her son and believes that my love will bring him through. She also tells me that it is not my responsibility to do that anymore, but my love over the last 11 years will seep in and fill the cracks in who he is. (That's a quote from her)

And you are a woman of action and probably have a very good plan in place now...

Yes, there is always room for reconciliation, and a D won't prevent that in the future. But a D now would mean damage control, would mean financial protection, would mean a D on paper. If you were M in the catholic church, doesn't that mean you are M for life?

No. I can get an annulment from the church. Our priest has said he would personally sponsor it. In fact, and this made me laugh, if i can't afford the divorce, my parish office offered to pay for it. Divorce is highly discouraged and you have to have good grounds for an annulment, but by no means are you expected to stay in a dangerous, sinful or unhealthy marriage.

I feel bad for the kids...no matter what anyone says, D is VERY hard on the kids. I counsel teenagers, and about 80% or more are from families of D (maybe more). This is not our specialty neccessarily, but it does create an environment of added stress for kids they wouldn't have to face in an intact family. I DON'T want you to feel guilty about any choice you make. Should you decide to wait for Dad and keep trying again and again will create it's own trauma and damage to the kids, especially the girls, who will grow up seeing men as untrustworthy and disrespectful which opens the situation for them to be VERY non-trusting (will cheat themselves or never truly open in an R) or will accept a person as an H which does not treat them respectfully (cheats, lies, etc.)

I agree with noodle, damage control... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

That is GREAT about the anullment (sp?) and your MIL's attitude.

WH WILL regret his actions of today...

It's a matter if he will regret it tomorrow, or 10 years from now.

It's all up to YOUR timing, and you stay in the M as long as YOU need to. It's not easy to D, and sometimes it's better to go about it slowly and get used to the grief and loss rather than a swift break...and then other times...

YOU do what YOU need to do!

I think your WH knows how much emotional power he holds over you and continues to use it. He is manipulative with his lies towards you and your children. He must think you are a dork if he believes he can tell you such nonsense over the unemployment benefit and that you will still trust his word. It really is so weird. He must know at this stage there is no longer any point in lying yet he continues to do so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have 3 daughters and thought about how I would feel if this happened to one of them. Would I want them to stick it out and sacrifice their precious lives to a man unworthy of them. BIG NO. Incidentally, my WH is living with OW. Made it clear I want no contact between my kids and her although he can see them at the weekends. He has been good about money. I put that down to his catholic guilt! But still, it's early days ...

Wow, even the Church is behind you. He really isn't the man everyone thought he was if that is so. You really deserve so much more. How could he do this to the kids. I wounder if he is going to show up at the door this week. Hugs to you. I am so busy I haven't had a chance to say hello. And yes, Pep and LM both have a good point. I was just hoping he would see the light, but maybe it is too late.

Hi Faith-Just wanted to say I hope you and the kids had a nice Christmas. Just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you. Best wishes for a very Happy New Year. I hope it is the start of good things for you. Jersey Girl

How did your holiday go?

Been thinking about you!!!!

Wherever you are, just want to wish you and your family a Happy New Year. May it be so much better than the last. Hugs-Jersey

Wishing the best for YOU for this coming year!

Thanks for checking in on me guys <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I've been meaning to get on here and update what's going on. Time is just flying by here right now.

Quick low-down:

Dork came home for Christmas.

He has (supposedly) broken up with OW....will believe that when I see it.

He has been in counseling with Steve and is also seeking individual counseling for his personal issues.

He changed his reservations to stay here a few days more and is flying back to Texas to sell the trailer (heard that one before though) and move back here by the end of the month.

The biggest changes right now are:

He says that for the first time since he started seeing OW that he doesn't feel 'right' with her. He still says he loves the way he feels when with her and does feel that he loves her but that that isn't enough for him anymore. That's a first.

He has also said he is coming back here and finding any job he can get for now until he gets the one he wants. It's been well over a year since he was willing to do that. The whole financial abandonment may be hitting him.

While he was here, OW came to visit friends...and him. I had cried and prayed so hard that something would happen and she wouldn't be here or he wouldn't see her.

As it stands, I think that is what actually pushed the issue here. This was the first time that 1 - he had to "decompartmentalize" these two separate parts of his life and they collided and 2 - they both had to work around the reality of his family and the fantasy of their affair.

Lots more there with him not showing up to see her because he was with us or showing up to see her 2-4 hours later than he had said.

So, right now, they are in NC (only time will tell) and I have committed to seeing how things go. I don't trust him. I don't believe him.

He says he understands that and is willing to be transparent this time.

Again, only time will tell. He isn't back here yet, we'll see if it happens.

I'm not willing to stop my life or to put all my eggs into this basket at this time.

I am willing to sit back and see what he's ready to do this time. If he follows through on coming back home, getting a job, going to counseling on his own and truly commiting to working on our marriage....well, fine and dandy.

If not, I'll be out a few months.

Anyway,

thank you again for keeping us in your thoughts, HAPPY NEW YEAR...and I'll be back to update more fully.

FIM

Let him lift this weight off the family all by himself. Don't help.

That's my 2 cents.

Pep