My H ended his A upon discovery. He told his mom, I told my sister (who is best friend) and BIL b/c they are my main family support system (mom & dad deceased.) Slowly word 'got out' among other family members. I never felt embarrased with family or my very close friends. Family ahs been VERY supportive on both sides. Although his dad & stepmom never said a word to ME about it. They just avoid the whole thing. A few close couples know, but some have totally shied away from us (is adultery contagious?)

I still have some concern with who knows in our community. SOW was a mom with cub scouts so I have to assume that most of the moms there know. I do not know these people but I do fight the feeling of embarrasment when we run into them. I guess it's part of who I am. I need to put that aside b/c it doesn't matter what anyone thinks but H and I.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I mean I wouldn't make tee shirts up about the sitch </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mine reads:

My spouse had an affair,
and all I got was this LOUSY T-SHIRT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

(sorry couldn't resist! wait H hears I made a joke about it! LOL)

"Is adultry contagious" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lemmonman, I wanted to add another quick story about what people think. We had a falling out with a couple whose daughter played youth soccer with ours. The woman was very spiteful and pulled her 9 yr old off the team. That was fine. But two years after the fact I learned that she had called every parent on the team and told them the reason she left was because I was having an A with the young female coach. The truth was that she was having an A with the young male coach. So for two years every family probably thought my W must be an [censored] for staying with me and letting me co-coach with this young woman. The young male coach left because he had this forty something chasing him and he was 26. The fact that I didn't know what people were told goes to show you how important it really was. It had zero effect on me because I wasn't aware of what they were thinking. Now finding out 2 years later it's almost laughable. But if I knew at the time I probably would have been concerned what they thought. At this point I can't even imagine what they think. Figure out who your real friends are and know that they love you no matter what. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Lemonman

I agree with Tummytuck that children play a big part in how a BS reacts to the situation.

I certainly had a huge 'dump the bum' desire on d-day. But I could also see that the main benefit of this was short-term - vengeance - and that the longer term repercussions however unfair it seemed, would affect me too. He was still the father of my kids, and so there would have to be involvement between us for a long time. I looked into the future at my children's weddings, christenings, grandchildren, all the events where I might have to interract with him and whichever OW he took up with. I realised that we would have to sell our house in the middle of the children's Big Exams, which was likely to blight their lives and their future. I could see that I would be left to pick up the pieces of the kids' pain, as well as getting myself into a financial state to face retirement and old age.

I could also find it in me to accept that I might have been responsible for some of the failings of the marriage, and that perhaps we could build a different kind of marriage.

And I was absolutely determined to find out what had gone wrong with this relationship. I didn't want to go into any new relationship without working out just how I'd ended up in this miserable situation. And I reasoned that I needed H's co-operation to do that - he had no reason to give me insight into the failure unless there was good reason to.

I thought about myself in future relationships, and judged that the chances of finding a mate who did not bring difficult baggage of his own - ex-wives, step-children, ungrieved pain - was low. If I had to deal with that anyway, it was less complicated to do it with the man I'd been living with for nearly two decades.

Is it humiliating? Yes, largely because most people take the same approach as you - the sub-text is 'If you had any pride or self-worth, you'd dump the swine.' That was one of the most difficult hurdles to get over - that sense of being despised because I was trying to hold together a support platform for my kids. I think that that has been one of the biggest growth 'opportunities' for me - to persist with a course of action that garners me contempt, because it's what I believe is the best option for me and my children.

Ironically, the question of exposure is a big bone of contention between me and H. The A was exposed to his family - by OW. She visited his brother to reveal the A and express her desire that she be notified if anything should ever happen to my H. I was deeply humiliated at her intrusion, but H sees it solely as evidence of her passion and sadness. But when, after two years, I told his parents about the A (H had taken OW to see them, and I felt he should confess and apologise), he was livid with ME and told me it was his business, his family, keep out of it. So my pain is judged quite differently from OW's, which certainly has given me reason to think carefully.

What have I learned from the last two years? That H has always had real problems with low self-worth. That I can be abrasive, over-independent and self-defending. That it was never much of a marriage, and that I let myself be treated poorly because I had my own family-of-origin issues. That the issues in our marriage still exist.

Do I regret those two years, even if the marriage fails? No, because it's given H a grace period in which he's built a warm relationship with his children for the first time. No, because I've learned a lot about myself and how I appear to other people. No, because I've learned a huge amount about relationships, and about the courage of human beings as displayed on this site.

I sometimes suspect that you imagine the average MB BS to be a coward, afraid to face life without a familiar spouse,unable to face up to the awful truth. There is a certain amount of truth in that, I fear, but I think that escaping the situation out of anger and hurt pride is just as futile. The bulk of MB BS's are trying to find a solution somewhere between those two extremes, in a world where most people berate them for 'timidity'. It takes an awful lot of courage to persist with a marriage that has inflicted humiliation on you.

No-one here is going to encourage anyone to stay in a marriage that is patently toxic. But no-one is going to let anyone give up on a marriage that is salvageable, either. It's the definition of 'salvageable' that's moot, I suppose.

You know, you're going to regret asking this question - when you're up to 400 replies!

TA

Lemonman -

I booted my WH out on D-day. We both work for the government in the same place (hospital). Everyone at work knew before I did, and I mean months before.

WH also brought OW to meet family members and to family gatherings, so the family found out before also.

OW is our neighbor, so all the neighbors knew too. I was quite humiliated at first until I started moving on with my life, and making it a good life.

I have many people come up and tell me how strong and gracious I was. (Except for the time I went to his house and screamed at the OW to get off her back and start taking care of her daughter).

The only thing that helped me was this board. No matter what your view is, this place will change your life.

Also the folks here especially Melody, O-girl and Pep, kept me from letting WH move back in last Christmas, while he was still with OW.

Thank God for nurses.

It just seems so many of you have a great ability to block everyone and evrything out all in the name of remaining in your marriage.

people in real recovery don't ever remain in a marriage as it was pre-affair...

people in real recovery create a new marriage...
with a much stronger foundation.....

people in real recovery..never could and never would go back to much that resembles their marriage pre-affair....

society/media in general have and promote quite a negative opinion of marriage....

marriages portrayed on sitcoms....fall under fire as always being about control....unequal views on needs and sexual fullfillment....

women are victimized
men are emmasculated...

marriage gets a bad-rap from the getgo...

affairs hold mystery and even some excitement...and lord knows we live in a society that can't sponge up enough voyeuristic reality shows...

real life affairs...real life drama....

friends and family often take on various reflections of these idealogies along the road of recovery with those that take that path ...when disclosure and then recovery is the path taken by the BS and WS....

our close families that hurt when we hurt....in a knee jerk manner will advise us to leave...

it is human nature to seek the path of least resistance....and that is often the advice given...

also in a world of no fault divorce and infidelity so very mainstreamed and "alternative relationships" being the watered down term... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...people really have come profess that marriage has no value.....

I just find it so hard to believe that you didn't feel shame or utter despair and humiliation and feel "weak" in taking back your WS.

revovery is not and never has been for the weak at heart...it is harder than the chaos and drama of an active affair....for in the chaos of the affair there are tangible issues to address...
recovery is like a blank room with mirrors with two people sitting in chairs facing one another....that's when things get tough...and scary

people who can observe a couple going thru real recovery are blessed with the chance to really see the real meaning of marital vows in action....

though an experience born of great pain....there can be many blessings obtained from it...

more scary than those that advise the BS to just leave and divorce...are those that don't condone the WS behavior....

my own marital vows hold great meaning to me on a personal level...as well as on a societal and communal level....

If you believe in the ability for people to change..
If you believe that life experiences can give way to changes in thoughts and actions.....
then as the recovery process moves forwards...so shall friends and family that can be witness to such a new enlightenment of what marraige really can and should mean...

It takes great braveness to face each ones own demons...and take ownership of those that were painful to those we love....

people that view marriage recovery as someone who is weak
or should be pitied...
hold no concept themselves of how great a marriage can be....

ark ...and those that traverse recovery ...and truly do recovery...probably in the end feel more pity for those that 'don't get it'

ark

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TogetherAlone:
<strong> Lemonman


I sometimes suspect that you imagine the average MB BS to be a coward, afraid to face life without a familiar spouse,unable to face up to the awful truth. There is a certain amount of truth in that, I fear, but I think that escaping the situation out of anger and hurt pride is just as futile. The bulk of MB BS's are trying to find a solution somewhere between those two extremes, in a world where most people berate them for 'timidity'. It takes an awful lot of courage to persist with a marriage that has inflicted humiliation on you.


TA </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for your reply. I will 100% admit for feeling what you described above, and while it won't make me popular on this web site this is exactly how I feel. Is this right? Probably not, but I can't change my feeling's on this just like that, but I am trying to at least understand it better. I think that either way this MB is a "jewel". I unfortunatley think that more marriages are lost than "recovered", and this MB may skew this FACT. Doesn't really matter, you all are a great bunch and it is my pleasure to here your stories and learn something everyday. I want to thank each and every one of you for your repsonses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lemonman -

I think the thing that is the most hurtful to me is that WH was with OW before I knew anything about it. WH and I were still having SF - for about 6 months.

WH and OW did not have "safe sex", and that is the rule with WS's. So I was unknowingly exposed to HIV, herpes, and the other diseases.

This really bothers me. I was a good wife, doing what I should do. However, WH decided unilaterlly to put my health in jeopardy. His "fun" was more important than my health.

OW has been with many men. But WH still denies that.

Lemonman,


I for one have not experienced one iota of shame or guilt or whatever. Maybe it is because I know how hard I tried to keep my 8 year relationship going ( and I figured out early on the R's survival would depend SOLELY on me and my efforts and if I could meet all of my WW's demands). I tried mightly but I obviously also failed in my Sisyphean efforts.

I resisted exposing for the same reasons that have been countlessly expounded by BS's afraid that " it will take my WS over the edge". I found that my subsequent exposure was extremely well received, especially by those that had "heard through the rumor mill" that it was ME that was involved in an A. Errr.. excuse me but I don't know what her families reaction has been since I have not heard from them since D-Day

My WW ,in our extremely rare conversations, ALWAYS made a special point of how could I embarass her and her family by what I had done? Besides my obvious reply," It was YOU, my dear that embarassed you and your family", she also stated that single action of personal humiliation would be the greatest impediment to our reconciliation.

I told my WW that if there ever came a time when we walked hand in hand into any establishment and her ring was on my finger and mine on hers, our TRUE friends would welcome us without reservation.

In conclusion , I guess my feelings are based on the fact that I have NEVER given my WW any rational reason to doubt my love and devotion to her. There are a lot of reasons for my state of insomnia, having an unblemished conscience is not one of them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
Thank you for your reply. I will 100% admit for feeling what you described above, and while it won't make me popular on this web site this is exactly how I feel. Is this right? Probably not, but I can't change my feeling's on this just like that, but I am trying to at least understand it better. I think that either way this MB is a "jewel". I unfortunatley think that more marriages are lost than "recovered", and this MB may skew this FACT. [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LM, I think what STandingAlone said is more than a feeling, it is a fact. Some of what we see here are, frankly, hopeless marriages and all the delusional, fearful thinking that goes along with it. On the other hand, there are very hopeful marriages that do recover once the MB principles are applied. You can't judge the latter by the former and I suspect this is what you are doing.

MB is not a guarantee of success, nor does it claim to be any such thing. It is a set of principles that can be highly successful when applied to the right situation.

MB is not a guarantee of success, nor does it claim to be any such thing. It is a set of principles that can be highly successful when applied to the right situation.

And applied in the right way, AND in the right spirit. As a tool to recover yourself, and in so doing possibly recover your marriage.

And if not than to move on in your life, healed, whole, and in shape to have a successful, happy and productive life with the possibility of finding love again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ October 30, 2004, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

If one lives their lives in light of what other people think, then they're not living. It's a trap, a prison, and a waste of time. I've learned that people think mostly about themselves. Oh they may consider another but that thought is fleeting. Other than the cronic gossip, people are busy living.

Now that I'm 50, I'm amazed at how things have changed. My dad's former secretary never had a wedding in her family where the bride wasn't pregnant. People I work with delay the wedding because the pictures will look better after the pregnancy weight has gone. Going to rehab is celebrated as a wonderful thing rather than concern what got the person in that state to begin with. Addictions are a disease, bad behavior is blamed on family of origin, lack of character is hardly considered. Finger pointing and excuses run freely. Bankruptcy and bad credit are no longer a shameful thing. One can file bankruptcy one day and purchase a brand new home the next...literally.

Now considering this, how can sticking to one's vows and doing one's best to keep a family intact be something that one would be embarassed about? Why would it be a disgrace for a betrayed spouse to make all attempts to repair a damaged relationship? I think those things are to be applauded! For a person of character, it would be easir to do the right thing. I believe when we come to the end of our lives, what we did won't be our concern as much as what we didn't do. Staying and fighting for what is right is much better than walking away...unless your French...(sorry)

Bravo, jph!! Well said! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />