Lemonman, was your job the reason for your marriage failing? I suppose it is part of it, but that can't be all. Did your stbx complain you were never home? However I have the same complaint that my H is never home and he is not a sir-gin (hee hee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). [/QB][/QUOTE]

Well, there is no doubt that my job "played" some role in this, but the fact is we "grew apart", we fell out of love. We changed. People change...it happens!!!!!. It is sad but a fact of life. So many poor souls on here live in such a "fog" here fighting for this idea of a "marriage" or person that is not even there anymore. I read back through the old recovery posts and did "research" on posters stories using the search function. Reading the same posters have false recovery after false recovery was tragic. I read some poor guys story (all 30 some pages of it) how sad and utter pathetic he laid down for his wife to obviosuly rail road him. Reading this guys story on there was truly tragic, and should be required reading for the many on here who continue to use PLan A as some mottoo of "self improvement" and in the process lose all sense of self pride and dignity. I think it was truly disgusting what people did on the responses in actually encoraging him to keep plan A'ing.

Uggghh, enough of that, I am getting angina again thining about it. Anyways, my wife complained that I wasn't home...but not much. She is a very very intelligent and independent woman (just the kind of woman I will be attracted to in the future) and understood my job demands and sacrifices that had to be made. She was a career woman, I was a career man and THANKFULLY (unlike so many souls on here) we didn't have children to "fog" us into belieivng that we had to save a marriage that should not be saved.

I was in the OR last night untill 3:30 am with a pretty severe MVA (motor vehicle accident) who suffered fatal internal injuries. When I went back to the phycians lounge to drink a cup of coffeee and watch some TV and kick my feet up I logged on here and just started reading old posts (from 2001, etc...). Let me tell you it was sure eye opening for me. I am starting to really believe that maybe there is something to the "cult like" feeling of this place. I just don't get it still. I am the outsider lookign in, and you know what....I like it better that way. I will still be here as long as I am welcomed however. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ October 31, 2004, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

lemonman,

I was just sitting in my office trying to catch up with patient charting and took a break and logged on. MB IS AN ADDICTION.

I am in your same situation as per choosing the "type of wife I wanted" but while I saw a lot of the drive ,intelligence and determination that I wanted, I also saw some of her darkside. I excused it because I just knew that I could "fix" that by showing her what a real, stable, loving, and empathetic man that I was. I didn't change. She didn't change.Now sadly it is up to the attorneys.

She told me several times during our 6 month "Plan B" that I was welcome to come home but I have never budged from wanting that NC letter she promised me so long ago.

Unlike you, I still love my STBXWW, it just isn't enough anymore.

<small>[ October 31, 2004, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Cymanca ]</small>

One thing is forsure this is an addiction. however I do not believe that this is anything like a cult. People do not stay in their M because of a website or a book. It is because they believe with their heart and do not use thier head (In my case only- please do not yell at me). This is just a place you can come and vent your frustrations and get some support. That is hard to come by. Typically while your M is going down you lean so much on Family and friends that they start to screen their calls as to not take any from you, than what? The people here are always listening and have the paitence to hear the same thing over and over. It is nice to know that you are not alone.

Lemonman- sounds like you had an eventful weekend. I think that you need to possible stop looking for the cult aspect that you have decided on and open your heart to the possiblilty that it is something else here. If you or your wife would have known about this place and learned about LB'ing and the needs of your spouse and were not so independent and intellectual you may still be in a strong and happy M. There is more to life then working and having a wife that is out socializing with out you. That is why A happens. I am not saying being independent to a point is bad, however you need to spend time together, find joint activities. Especially if you plan to have kids with your next wife, I mean really, you can not have an intellectual and indepenant wife and expect to have happy healthy kids. You need to have a good M to raise the best possible kids (yes this is from me, and I am well aware of the state of my M). Also if you plan to keep working as much as you do, and want a wife that is I/I who is going to raise your kids? A nanny? Not a good plan, tried that, she slept with my H and left my 2 year old with a bowl of M&M's and Toy Story 2 on loup and my 3 month old in a bathroom while doing it (yes this is how I found out forsure- I had a gut feelimg- so I left work on a lunch break and came home to that, who knows how long it had been going on, my guess weeks!). PLEASE! I am smart and independant as well, and working opposite shifts as my H I did what I wanted, and left him out, look where it got me, Learn from your past mistake unless you like the Divorce process and the pain and hit to your pocket book.

Just my 2 cents!!

<small>[ November 01, 2004, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

Just wanted to get this back to the top so that Lemonman would read it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Here Lemonman!!

HEE HEE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> One thing is forsure this is an addiction. however I do not believe that this is anything like a cult. People do not stay in their M because of a website or a book. It is because they believe with their heart and do not use thier head (In my case only- please do not yell at me). This is just a place you can come and vent your frustrations and get some support. That is hard to come by. Typically while your M is going down you lean so much on Family and friends that they start to screen their calls as to not take any from you, than what? The people here are always listening and have the paitence to hear the same thing over and over. It is nice to know that you are not alone.

Lemonman- sounds like you had an eventful weekend. I think that you need to possible stop looking for the cult aspect that you have decided on and open your heart to the possiblilty that it is something else here. If you or your wife would have known about this place and learned about LB'ing and the needs of your spouse and were not so independent and intellectual you may still be in a strong and happy M. There is more to life then working and having a wife that is out socializing with out you. That is why A happens. I am not saying being independent to a point is bad, however you need to spend time together, find joint activities. Especially if you plan to have kids with your next wife, I mean really, you can not have an intellectual and indepenant wife and expect to have happy healthy kids. You need to have a good M to raise the best possible kids (yes this is from me, and I am well aware of the state of my M). Also if you plan to keep working as much as you do, and want a wife that is I/I who is going to raise your kids? A nanny? Not a good plan, tried that, she slept with my H and left my 2 year old with a bowl of M&M's and Toy Story 2 on loup and my 3 month old in a bathroom while doing it (yes this is how I found out forsure- I had a gut feelimg- so I left work on a lunch break and came home to that, who knows how long it had been going on, my guess weeks!). PLEASE! I am smart and independant as well, and working opposite shifts as my H I did what I wanted, and left him out, look where it got me, Learn from your past mistake unless you like the Divorce process and the pain and hit to your pocket book.

Just my 2 cents!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ:

Thanks for the input. You make some good points and I agree with you in general. . I just don't want a woman to "go out" with and I know that my next relationship will have benefit of this failure as I am slowly learning what went wrong. I don't have it all figured out yet, but hopefully I get there. As for your situation I think that maybe you are blaming the OW a little too much. Your H cheated, and is 100% responsible for his cheating. It sounds liek you are married, but not really enjoying a marriage. May I ask you what you get out of being married? Besides the hope that your WH will "magically" turn into the man you fell in love with. I can't imagine how hard it must be for you to contemplate leaving your Husband, afraid of the financial harships and fear of being "alone" down the road. I don't judge you, I just pray for you b/c you need it. I come here everyday hoping that you have news that you left your WH. Not that I want you to be divorced, but I don't share the "faith" that people just change, especially abusive people like your Wayward Husband. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I think that I continue to be misunderstood here (some of it my fault). I am not some anti-marriage monger. I am anti-doormat and anti-insanity behavior (which is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results). I think Stanley made a great point when he brought up his situation. I COULD forgive an infidelity act, I really could. What I can't do is do what sooooo many people do on here in putting up with continued false recoveries, and continued betrayals all in the name of not "LB'ing" and letting the WS "recover the withdrawal of their betrayal relationship". It is such a BS cop out for people to say on here not to be MAD, or show emotion when you are continually betrayed. It is ridiculous when people on here keep saying "well, don't LB just tell him/her your boundaries !!!!". The WS will of course betray again, or lie again with NO consequences except the continued door mat stance of "I am upset that you lied to me again, I am upset that you keep seeing the OP". "Do you know that this hurts me"? Ofcourse then the WS says "aw shucks, sorry, it won't happen again" or makes some lame excuse that the BS comes on here with looking for any validation to keep Plan A'ing.....If this wasn't so GD tragic I could laugh about it. And the very best thing is, the BS is not supposed to bring up realtionship talk, or make the WS upset, and is supposed to make the WS feel great about themselves all in the name of "luring" them back to the marriage. Alot of this BS is a charade.....Everybody using their "PLANS" to trick the WS into ending the affair and coming back to the marriage......... Yet, so ironically is the creator of this great plan, one Dr Harley, admits that he himself would NOT come back to a marriage after infidelity.

Stanley, your situation has NOTHING to do with marriage builders....please stop looking for validation for taking your wife back. You are the ideal chance for an affair to be workable and "recoverable", all of this other trajedy IMO will scar a marriage for life. These are my opinons, they may be wrong and false but this is how I feel about this. Thanks for listening.

How is everyone else doing tonight? I am draggin my A$$ after a long weekend on call. Being able to sleep tonight with NO CHANCE of a beeper awakening me is gonna be so nice. I hope everyone's weekend was enjoyable.

I have been waiting for you lemonman. Iwas just about to shut down my computer and do some cleaning as my little tornados hit tonight, and are now all sleeping peaceful in their beds.

How was your weekend at work? I bet you are ready for some good shut eye. I actually had a good weekend, and I had a day off this week, and it felt good. I am so use to always being on the run I don't know what to do when I have some down time. I needed it thought, I broke down on Friday night when I was in my 11 hour straight of working and going on two hours sleep (I bet you know the drill) I felt like an idiot because all I could say was I wanted to go home. Crazy huh!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> I have been waiting for you lemonman. Iwas just about to shut down my computer and do some cleaning as my little tornados hit tonight, and are now all sleeping peaceful in their beds.

How was your weekend at work? I bet you are ready for some good shut eye. I actually had a good weekend, and I had a day off this week, and it felt good. I am so use to always being on the run I don't know what to do when I have some down time. I needed it thought, I broke down on Friday night when I was in my 11 hour straight of working and going on two hours sleep (I bet you know the drill) I felt like an idiot because all I could say was I wanted to go home. Crazy huh!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't imagijne working your job, taking care of a house, taking care of three probably energetic little guys and delaing with that WH of yours. Now that is what I will call work and probably infintely harder than my job.. No I am not joking about this either. Give yourslef more credit, I don't know if I could do what you do.

Yes I do blame the OP too much, however I took her in, built her a room in my home, helped her get away from bad influences, paid for everything for her to make her a better person. How did she say thank you, by shareing my clothes and my Husband. Will I be bitter about her until the day I die PROBABLY. DO I hold my husband accountable? I try however it is hard considering the fact that he blames me for it all. It is much easier to point the finger at her and project all my hatred towards her then letting it pent up towards my H when there is nothing I can do about it there. I was hurt and humiliated as are many people here. It was rubbed in my face for months when he would sneak her in the house, as he made an apartment down there for himself and then put something in front of the door so I could do nothing to stop it, they would make out on my couch with my kids asleep 10 feet away and me crying in the other room, until I had enough grabed her by the hair and threw her out of my house. There was so many wrong things that happened that I have anger for and I guess it is just easier to blame her then look at my own mistakes and my Husbands mistakes. I would rather put it behind me.

All I want is to be loved, safe secure and happy- is that really too much to ask?

thanks Lemonman, the school job is okay, pretty laid back, crummy pay.
The serving job is high speed intense fun that gets me to be able to interact and be out going and fun, I love it( most of the time) and the pay is great
being a mom and a wife is the most time commiting hardest least appriciated no pay job I will ever love (well being the mom part anyway).

My friends and family all think I work 3 jobs, and do not know how I do it and still function and be out going and try to always help others. WEll my little breakdown at work on Friday shows that I can not do it all with out a few bumps in the road. Went back to work on Saturday and made up for my melt down 10 fold. We got killed (really busy $1200 hours, that is a LOT) and I loved every minute of it.

Lemonman I really like talking to you, because you will always be honest and not sugar coat it. Thanks for coming on tonight.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> Yes I do blame the OP too much, however I took her in, built her a room in my home, helped her get away from bad influences, paid for everything for her to make her a better person. How did she say thank you, by shareing my clothes and my Husband. Will I be bitter about her until the day I die PROBABLY. DO I hold my husband accountable? I try however it is hard considering the fact that he blames me for it all. It is much easier to point the finger at her and project all my hatred towards her then letting it pent up towards my H when there is nothing I can do about it there. I was hurt and humiliated as are many people here. It was rubbed in my face for months when he would sneak her in the house, as he made an apartment down there for himself and then put something in front of the door so I could do nothing to stop it, they would make out on my couch with my kids asleep 10 feet away and me crying in the other room, until I had enough grabed her by the hair and threw her out of my house. There was so many wrong things that happened that I have anger for and I guess it is just easier to blame her then look at my own mistakes and my Husbands mistakes. I would rather put it behind me.

All I want is to be loved, safe secure and happy- is that really too much to ask? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ:

I think it is healthy to get this all out. I think you obviosuly know that your thinking is falwed and I think most posters on here (even the rah rah Plan A cultists) would agree. I think you are a scarred and pained woman, and what you want....."to be loved, safe, secure, and happy" is not to much to ask...it should be expected from a spouse. It is the continued behavior of your WH that is tolerated (and I know that many people have supported you in trying to stay married to his man) that is a trajedy for you. You are not in recovery. If you were divorced from your WHy at least you wouldn't be sunjected to his abuse everyday. What is ebing married getting you. I know that your tolerance of your WH behavior is at times encouraged by this sites posters to "keep the marriage alove", but you have to find a way to get it together for yourslef and your children. Your WH is a coward, and an abuser. By continung with this marriage (and yes, I know that many here are telling you to stay and fight for this man and marriage) you are giving your little "tornadoes" a bluprint for thie rlives and future realtionships. I know you know all of this. Anyways, take heart that prayers are said by me everyday for you to get through this and find the courage to leave this man. This isn't now about marriage building, this is about life preserving. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thanks Lemonman-
Another question-- is it normal for man who says he loves you to not want to touch you much less kiss you? I have tried asking him why he does not do those things any more and his only answer is "why should I?" It hurts me termendously on the inside. When I cry sometimes he is sypathetic, others he just asks why I am crying now. I hate posting on here just because I am always nervous that he will go and read what I write, so I am rather censoring myself. I wish there was a better way to protect what is written, but I suppose why would they need to you know?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> Thanks Lemonman-
Another question-- is it normal for man who says he loves you to not want to touch you much less kiss you? I have tried asking him why he does not do those things any more and his only answer is "why should I?" It hurts me termendously on the inside. When I cry sometimes he is sypathetic, others he just asks why I am crying now. I hate posting on here just because I am always nervous that he will go and read what I write, so I am rather censoring myself. I wish there was a better way to protect what is written, but I suppose why would they need to you know? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ofcourse this is not normal. You know the answer to this. You are so used to accepting such unbelievably disrespectful behavior from him that you have now taken to any scrap of love he throws at you as accepatble. I think him leaving for hunting is a good time for you to do what is right for you life and children/ By you contiuing in this marriage AS IT STANDS now, you are accepting this behavior. Sadly, it will probably take a trajedy from you to see this. I have seen first hand what domestic abuse does, and the deep emtional addictions that the abusees (is that a word??) go through in protecting the abuser and rationalizing the abuse. You do every day on here when you say "that your husbad can be great".

I am pretty shaken up by reading the poor woman's post who's husband broke her arm and she required three surgeries. The fact that she is stil with her husband blows my mind. Some people may think that is wonderful that she could forgive him to save the marriage, but this brings tears to my eyes. I know first hand what will probably happen to her and others like her. I just hope that I am not on call that night and have to see it in my trauma bay. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

and you think my job is harder! I disagree,

What do you mean by this is a great time for me with H hunging this weekend. What do you want me to do uproot my kids again???

I thought it was horrible too about that other women Cherished. I was shocked that she was still with her H too. A broken bone would put me well over the edge.
Lemonman the thing is the physical aspect for many of us so spaced out. We convince ourselves that it is or was our fault some how, or we accept their apolgy and think it will never happen again.

Back to the whole affection thing, my H says that men are not into that and I should accept that, is that true? DO men really not like holding hands, hugs, kisses, snuggling, carressing- things of that nature- with out them leading to sex?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> and you think my job is harder! I disagree,

What do you mean by this is a great time for me with H hunging this weekend. What do you want me to do uproot my kids again???

I thought it was horrible too about that other women Cherished. I was shocked that she was still with her H too. A broken bone would put me well over the edge.
Lemonman the thing is the physical aspect for many of us so spaced out. We convince ourselves that it is or was our fault some how, or we accept their apolgy and think it will never happen again.

Back to the whole affection thing, my H says that men are not into that and I should accept that, is that true? DO men really not like holding hands, hugs, kisses, snuggling, carressing- things of that nature- with out them leading to sex? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When we are in love we do. This is not something that takes effort wHen you love someone. These things come naturally. I think you probably forgot all of the great things that come with a good marriage. Holding hands, snuggling, affection are all of the things that great marriages should have. Anyone who tells you differently is lying. I had all of these things when I was married. Even when it went bad, I still loved my wife and wanted this affection........and not just for sex.

I am not going to give you any advice about your WH anymore. It is not my place to. I like you and want to conitnue to post to you but I think it is clear that anyting I say about him is somehting you are not ready to accept. That is ok, I understand. You just have to realize that your future with him is known untill something changes. You can be sure to continue to expect the same behaviors.

I wish you would continue to post. I like getting the feedback from a guy. It is like a wake up call, however I keep hitting snooze, but with all wake up calls eventually you have to respond by getting up and going on with your life.

I too like posting to you or else I would not still be up at 11pm when I have to be up in 6 hours and still have not cleaned the house and H will be home in 1.5 hours. Not sure why- but you make me smile, and think, a great combination.

<small>[ November 01, 2004, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

did you go to get some shut eye Lemonman or are you still out here somewhere???

I am around but barely,,,,,,,,,dosing off hard. I may go soon. I start rounds at 7 am....ugghh

I start with kids at 7:30, but have to get up at 5:30- ugh as well.

I just wanted to say good night and have a great day tomorrow- will you be on???

yeah, should be cya.