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This can be argued until everyone is blue in the face. Dreamcatchers thread is a perfect example. Dreamcatcher is no longer posting <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Doesn't that say it all?
The fact is not everybody takes a hard line with the remorseful WS but many (if not most) do. It is ALL of our responsibilty to correct these poster's or we are guilty by asscociation to some degree. To look the other way is wrong! For others to jump on noodles (and others) band wagon on the other thread is inexcuseable. It is all TOO common here on a website that is built for couples to recover their marriage.
<small>[ November 01, 2004, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: SleeplessInSF ]</small>
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One more thing ,,, WEAVER ,,, In away we all attact ones personalitys ....
BS are called ,,, doormats ,, thats an attack.
WS are called selfish sometimes ,, thats an attack .
If you look at some post they seem personal to me alot of the time ...
BS 's WS'S including my own have been called jerks , A$$ HOLES ect ... all personal ...
I guess some times we do not realize that we get caught up in the moment some times ...
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SleeplessInSF:
It is ALL of our responsibilty to correct these poster's or we are guilty by asscociation to some degree. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">???????
Guilty of what?
Are you saying it is MY responsibility
(**RESPONSIBILITY** as in the sense of making myself accountable)
to correct the wrong opinion(s) of others?
Wow.
Pep
<small>[ November 01, 2004, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SleeplessInSF:
<strong> To look the other way is wrong! For others to jump on noodles (and others) band wagon on the other thread is inexcuseable. It is all TOO common here on a website that is built for couples to recover their marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That inexcusableness is exactly why this thread needed to be posted. There are those who will rationalize that kind of poison, and jump on the bandwagon.
The repentent WS has to be made of strong stuff to realize that Salem, MASS lives on in the hearts of a few who frequent this board; to ignore it and realize that this is an anonymous board and there are more "who are for us than against us" as they try to repent in word and deed to their BS.
There are others, hurting, wounded betrayed spouses, who are trying to set aside their anger and rage, to heal from a higher source, who read this kind of crap and shake their heads; that is a low, low road to take; with that attitude, of course the BS will never heal. There can be no restoration of the marriage, no matter what kind of amends the WS tries. Just look at Jen Brown's situation! And her ex was cheating on her, probably before Jen became a WS! But that didn't matter to the good pilgrims here who want to judge and purge! Jen was made of strong stuff though, and pulled the good from this board, in the face of this kind of treatment.
I am a betrayed spouse. I could never look at my husband and want him drug into the town square with all his vices, etc. I only want him to feel God's love and be healed, inside and out, from the wounds that keep him from true and thorough recovery.
Am I angry? Yes I have my days. Frequently. But I never forget the love. And that love allows me to feel God's love for me. That is where healing for the BS begins.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JMO but your post to WS would scare me off to not post here any more ... (if I was a new WS) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3, thanks for weighing I...I appreciate it. I like what you had to say about BSs getting harsh treatment sometimes too...that's true. Let me ask you something though. You think this (my) post will scare you off? What about the other one? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> It did come first you know. If I was a WS....that would scare the BEJEESUS outta me! Some of that stuff was pretty dang "medieval" yikes!! pep...feel free to add...."except Pep" at the end of any statement of mine you feel doesn't reflect your feelings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I promise to be much more conscious of not using a "collective" we...but when you stop arguing semantics...please let me know whether you think we ought to warn folks about that "predictable result" (both from both their spouses and some folks around here). It seems kinda unfair to me that while dream was trying to decide to confess...she got plenty of support...and then it got ugly afterwards? And even worse when her H hit her in the head with a bottle? If this is bound to happen because of the raw feelings of BSs...then I think that's something that anybody who's thinking of confession ought to know about before they post it here.
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KaylaAndy wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I don't think any of us missed the part of her point that said violence isn't condoned; however, a few seem to look past the witch-hunt fantasy as justice for repentent people trying to make it right (and for the unrepentant too!). This sickens me, ML, that you, someone I respect for your recovery and your normal level headedness, can't see the evil in Noodle's essay!]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ok, Kayla, now I know you know darn good and well I am not advocating this circa 1600-burn-them-at-the-stake fantasy. I know you know this. And I know you can read noodle's words and know that she is not either. Everyone, in their hysterical zeal, continues to ignore the words she spoke afterwards. "Now..having lit the board on fire with the above statement..allow me to continue.
Just because something is deserved..does not make it sustainable or healthy.
I think we can all agree that you must protect yourself and not allow attacks to be made on your person.
I think we can all agree that this is destructive to the possibility of future recovery. It's an unhealthy pattern. It fails to bring real resolution.
-snip-
The trouble with assigning punishment for the WS is that there really isn't anything that could be done to you..that would be the measure of what you have done."Nowhere did she condone violence so I am quite shocked at this bizarre reaction. She is saying, yes, maybe you deserve it but it would do no good to mete it out. Now, if I thought for a minute that she was, I would be first to open up a can of texas whoop [censored] on HER. But I ain't seeing it, folks. What she did say that you might jump all over is that adultery "deserves" a very harsh punishment. But who is the arbiter of what each crime deserves? It sure isn't me! If I got every thing I deserved for the multitude of sins I have committed, I shudder to think where I would be! I probably "deserved" some pretty bad punishment for some of the horrible things I did as a practicing alcoholic. <small>[ November 01, 2004, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>
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P.S. I would also add that while some of us may deserve some pretty bad punishment for our crimes, it doesn't mean we will get it. I was given great mercy and forgiveness for my crimes and I think others should too. That doesn't mean I deserved mercy, though.
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Melody,
I hope, with all my heart, that anyone who has the courage to end their destructive acts, confesses what they did, and recommits to living a good life, an authentic life (like dreamcatcher) RECIEVES mercy and is deserving of mercy.
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ML and others-
How can a WS/FWS possibly feel comfortable posting here when we have a multitude (apparently) of BS thinking that we DESERVE violence such as noodle stated
"Sorry..no. If he wanted to drag you and OM into the center of town, tie you together and carve his rage into your flesh before lighting you on fire ..you deserve it. This is the treatment that your actions have *earned* so to speak. You have committed a crime..a very real crime against another person..you do not deserve any protection from the reactions of the bereaved."
Not only violence but death- which, let's not forget- still wouldn't be enough to make up for what we did.
Noodle may not be advocating violence- but she sure does feel we deserve it.
I am getting sick to my stomach reading quite a few of the posts here.
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Star , I agree with that ,,, and think it happens all the time , at least I have read that ...
OH silly me forgot to say what I was talking about ...
THE WARNING thing ,,, I have read WS's (new ones) that came here and many of us trying to convince them to confess and I have seen BS's ask if there WS is violent ,, REALLY they have ...
Also recall some giving them the warning to know that it could be very harsh even if there has never been violence before ...
and I read DC thread when it started ,,, I knew about the BEER BOTTLE THING ,,, I choose not to post ,,, my mind set was not correct at the time to interject ,,,,
VIOLENCE is not derserved but can happen as we have heard hear ,,,
Maybe what is being said , is that you may have to expect it ... WROMG , RIGHT I am not saying either way ,,, but the FACT that one BS is different than another ...
Acting on it is very different ,,, NOODLE didn't her H is still alive and KICKING ,,,
BUT the thought the anger the rage to think this way is very real ,,, and I will not say that someones thoughts are wrong either ..
Calling your WW a HO is not right and they probbly are not but some BS (males ) may do so ...
Calling the WH a USED scumBA@ is not nice but BS (FEMALE) will do so .
All par for the corse for some of us .
Do I condon a bs driving down there ws and killing them NO !
BUT when I read it in the paper I understand it .. I can see where it came from ...
I do think WS should be aware of the type of feelings different BS may have inside them the time OF confession ... NOT to scare them in to NOT confessing but so they have an understanding of what goes on in the HEAD some times ...
HOW vial (SP) it could be ... I invisioned some of the very same things NOODLE discribed ..
AM I a bad person ,,, I do not think so ..
I still think of OP in that degree and that will never change ..
I think making them aware that they may incounter this type of post from a person is good ,,, but to say that its a "BAIT AND SWITH" no don't agree also they may not be the same people who convinced the WS to confess so thats unfair ...
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish: <strong> Melody, I hope, with all my heart, that anyone who has the courage to end their destructive acts, confesses what they did, and recommits to living a good life, an authentic life (like dreamcatcher) RECIEVES mercy and is deserving of mercy. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You and me both, Starfish. This is one area where we can both agree 100%. Just as much has been forgiven of me, I only hope for the same for dreamcatcher and every other brave WS on this forum. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
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3isacrowd- the point is not whether violent thoughts on the part of a BS can be understood- it is that we had a poster here telling another poster that they DESERVED to have their flesh carved with the pain of betrayal- etc etc in detail.
IMO that is sick - and wrong.
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Star , I agree with that ,,, and think it happens all the time , at least I have read that ...
OH silly me forgot to say what I was talking about ...
THE WARNING thing ,,, I have read WS's (new ones) that came here and many of us trying to convince them to confess and I have seen BS's ask if there WS is violent ,, REALLY they have ...
Also recall some giving them the warning to know that it could be very harsh even if there has never been violence before ...
and I read DC thread when it started ,,, I knew about the BEER BOTTLE THING ,,, I choose not to post ,,, my mind set was not correct at the time to interject ,,,,
VIOLENCE is not derserved but can happen as we have heard hear ,,,
Maybe what is being said , is that you may have to expect it ... WROMG , RIGHT I am not saying either way ,,, but the FACT that one BS is different than another ...
Acting on it is very different ,,, NOODLE didn't her H is still alive and KICKING ,,,
BUT the thought the anger the rage to think this way is very real ,,, and I will not say that someones thoughts are wrong either ..
Calling your WW a HO is not right and they probbly are not but some BS (males ) may do so ...
Calling the WH a USED scumBA@ is not nice but BS (FEMALE) will do so .
All par for the corse for some of us .
Do I condon a bs driving down there ws and killing them NO !
BUT when I read it in the paper I understand it .. I can see where it came from ...
I do think WS should be aware of the type of feelings different BS may have inside them the time OF confession ... NOT to scare them in to NOT confessing but so they have an understanding of what goes on in the HEAD some times ...
HOW vial (SP) it could be ... I invisioned some of the very same things NOODLE discribed ..
AM I a bad person ,,, I do not think so ..
I still think of OP in that degree and that will never change ..
I think making them aware that they may incounter this type of post from a person is good ,,, but to say that its a "BAIT AND SWITH" no don't agree also they may not be the same people who convinced the WS to confess so thats unfair ...
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pep...feel free to add...."except Pep" at the end of any statement of mine you feel doesn't reflect your feelings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
OK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
I promise to be much more conscious of not using a "collective" we...but when you stop arguing semantics...
I am asking for collective accuracy more than correct semantics. Especially since inaccurate hyperbole makes things worse.
please let me know whether you think we ought to warn folks about that "predictable result" (both from both their spouses and some folks around here).
Warning that some opinions expressed might be harsh, untrue, wildly wacked out??? This is true. But I don't control others. Only myself.
Well ... I sure as heck don't choose to be the one to tell you where to draw the line for yourself *Star. I trust you to post as yourself, true to yourself, and be as involved as you choose to be. Or as non-involved as you choose to be. I can tell you when I think what you have posted is illogical, or inaccurate, but I certainly don't want to warn anyone about you, or warn about anyone else who posts here.
I am not better than other posters. I do not put myself higher than the posters you wish to warn others about.
It seems kinda unfair to me that while dream was trying to decide to confess...she got plenty of support...and then it got ugly afterwards?
In my opinion.... It got ugly because right away some posters assumed her H was/is an "abusive" man. The arguement became ugly because of that assumption.
And even worse when her H hit her in the head with a bottle?
See... he may not have been aiming at her but at the wall. No one knows. Dream herself said her H did not have a history of being an abusive man.
If this is bound to happen because of the raw feelings of BSs...then I think that's something that anybody who's thinking of confession ought to know about before they post it here.
I do not think it is "bound to happen" . I disagree with you there.
It happened. It was ugly. Warning her about possible ugly responses would have changed ~what~ exactly?
Pep
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3,
I'm glad that some people have warned WS about how some spouses react....does anybody warn them about how some folks here will react?
All of us who have been betrayed understand the RAGE that can accompany discovery. Like you, I hear about acts of violence and know where that rage came from....wish I didn't. But very few of us (I hope) understand ACTING upon that RAGE...actually drawing blood without some remorse of our own. I understood the bottle throwing...I truly did. It was knee jerk. What I'm having far more trouble understanding the discussion afterwards since she had clearly been pretty severely punished by her own husband. It's kind of the "old kicking 'em when their down" thing.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sadfww:
Noodle may not be advocating violence- but she sure does feel we deserve it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Before you state what someone else feels as if it is a known fact ... you ought to ask her if you are correct.
I think there is a more than equal chance you are incorrect.
Noodle expressed something very strange and out of character to her usual tenor... it was very odd and disturbing. I wonder why she wrote what she wrote.
I presume that I don't know why she wrote her specific comments. Very out of character.
Pep
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sadfww: Noodle may not be advocating violence- but she sure does feel we deserve it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Before you state what someone else feels as if it is a known fact ... you ought to ask her if you are correct.
I think there is a more than equal chance you are incorrect.
Noodle expressed something very strange and out of character to her usual tenor... it was very odd and disturbing. I wonder why she wrote what she wrote.
I presume that I don't know why she wrote her specific comments. Very out of character.
Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What? She point blank said that a violence towards a WS was not undeserved. I've had enough of this today; I'm tired of being beaten up on here b/c I don't think violence is an acceptable response or is deserved.
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pep,
Noodle expressed quite "eloquently" how she felt, in medieval technicolor I might add. I also see that she's read this thread, so if she's offended...surely she can defend herself with equal enthusiasm and eloquence?
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong> pep,
Noodle expressed quite "eloquently" how she felt, in medieval technicolor I might add. I also see that she's read this thread, so if she's offended...surely she can defend herself with equal enthusiasm and eloquence? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree...
Pep
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sadfww:
What? She point blank said that a violence towards a WS was not undeserved.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And don't you find that particularly odd?
I do.
I wonder if she's "OK" ...?
Pep
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