Okay folks:

This was a fun vent and humor thread, but I've made my decision.

Rat Meat is dead. OMxW's xH is dead.

It will seem boring, but RM will be referred 2 hereafter by ol' 2long as "OM" or "the (note small case) OM".

Thanks for the sport!

-ol' 2long
P.S. Now, if only Dubya would just concede, 2 make up for the last time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Trix:
What is ethical about an unrepentant OP?

Not a thing. But your ethics, the things you choose to do are not do are not based on other's choices. They are based on the concept of harming none and are a reflection of YOU - not of anyone else.

Maybe reason for incorrectness of DJ's toward OP's hasn't been explained to me in a convincing manner.

See ethics comment above. Disrespect toward anyone harms you more than it harms them by compromising your ethics and integrity. Aside from that it's the entire idea of habit, which is much of what MB is based on.

Although an angry outburst at work may not withdraw love units from your account with your spouse, it cultivates and keeps alive the habit of having angry outbursts and therefore makes it more likely that one will be directed toward your mate at some point in the future. When Harley talks about the MB concepts the idea of habit figures prominently in that discussion.

I am all for releasing the OP in your heart when your spouse is a FWS. I believe that you can forgive them without going to them or having them in your lives. But,I believe that is all for the BS to heal themselves and move on.

Completely agree.

I do not feel comfortable bringing up our former OW by name. I do use their names but I hate uttering them. I want them to remain in the past and not bring attention or memory of them to my H or myself at this point. But, still every now and then something will be brought up and it happens.

Yeah, and there are always those names that act as triggers. Keeping the AP and the A itself in the past is excellent strategy.

Somehow using their names is more respectful than they deserve.

Every human being, by virtue of the fact that s/he is human is deserving of respect and dignity. Their actions, otoh, are not. You can disrespect the action of an affair without attacking the humanity of another person.

Also - if you had ever been the WP or the AP or if you worked with them every day the way I do you would know that they are every bit as much hurt and confused as the BP. I understand that doesn't make an affair ok. It doesn't, nothing does. An affair is always an unethical attempt to solve something - but it doesn't make the people having an affair evil or malicious. It makes them fallible human beings who made a terribly destructive mistake.


Maybe I'll go to Mrs. G or X Mrs. G . But all this is between my H and me. In this forum I just use OW or FOW.

Perfectly acceptable.

I am not creative enough to come up with a fun name like RM. My inner names for them were of the more derogatory types that aren't allowed here.

Hehehe - yes, we've all been there - and your constraint is admirable.

2Long - glad to hear it. You're a good man, Charie Brown. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And yes, you did get me here - I must have been in leftover voting mode from yesterday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Every human being, by virtue of the fact that s/he is human is deserving of respect and dignity.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is truly dependant on one's definition of "deserving".

Respect is earned ....not a right or priviledge. One "deserves" respect if earned and returned.

Respect is not solely reserved for human beings. Wild animals, (the pecking order,the laws of nature equivalent to that of which we speak).... have more respect for each other than human beings.

Dignity... is ultimately only defined by your actions, it's not something you're born with, not an inherited trait by any means. Dignity goes hand in hand with self respect. Without one, the other ceases to exist.

Just my 2 cents.

p.s. by my own nature...I'm not a name caller...but there are times..that I wish I was.

For me, respect is definitely earned.

I can respect other people's humanity, though, even OM's (boy, it feels weird 2 call him that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

But there are over 6 billion other people in the world, and I simply haven't taken the time out 2 determine whether they've all earned my respect of their behavior and life choices. Probably, I never will.

Such it is with OM.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can respect other people's humanity, though, even OM's (boy, it feels weird 2 call him that ). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I concur. I respect that the OW is a human being. I respect that she has two wonderful children who adore her.

And when I first began calling her OW, instead of (what I consider to be) the DJ I used to call her, it somehow felt that I was GIVING her something. Like I was letting her get away with something. But that feeling went away. And it was one of the most proactive things I have done for my personal recovery.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

betrayedinjersey:

Respect is [b]earned ....not a right or priviledge. One "deserves" respect if earned and returned. [/b]

Every major religion on the planet will disagree with you. Respect for one's humanity is a right based on being made in the image of the divine - or carrying the spark of the divine within (depending on where one's religious preferences fall).

But we must differentiate between respecting the human being and respecting the choices and actions of that person. THAT respect most definitely needs to be earned.


Dignity... is ultimately only defined by your actions, it's not something you're born with, not an inherited trait by any means. Dignity goes hand in hand with self respect. Without one, the other ceases to exist.

Once again - dignity is the right of the human being by virtue of the fact that one is human. And if one wants to enlarge the conversation one could amend that statement to include creation where I have said human. And once again separating the dignity of the person from his or her actions - we do not have to dignify acts which are destructive or harmful.

by my own nature...I'm not a name caller...but there are times..that I wish I was.

I hear ya! There are only two people on the planet whom I come close to hating and I'm often tempted..... perhaps might even succumb -- in private. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

cerri,
I truly do appreciate the opportunity to debate rationally, and without getting all riled up emotionally.

Going with the same set of values...respect, dignity, SELF-RESPECT.... as to the HUMANITY... of someone else...WS...BS alike... doesn't address infidelity.

I'm not even taking into consideration the fact that everyone is human. That's a given. No argument there.

Infidelity is strictly confined to ACTIONS. So that old cliche' of hate the sin, not the sinner..to me is equivalent to hate the player not the game.

It's all relevant.

Everyone has their own opinion, and has the right to have that.

It's only recently...that I've seen stuff like this. And it's a prime example of the fight or flight syndrome. Everyone is either fighting like crazy...or fleeing to someplace they feel safer.

I choose not to enter into the arena. Just like everyone else can.

But as far as the intitial intent of THIS thread.... for every single BS...their feelings for or about the OP...are strictly up to them. I don't live in anyone else's shoes...so if they came on here calling the OP everything but decent... who am I to complain ? That's THEIR issue...not mine.

It's a discussion forum...period. A message board...like I've said before... words in cyberspace.

A discussion borum provides a means...the participants, the opinions, the contributions... provide worth.

betrayedinjersey:
cerri,
I truly do appreciate the opportunity to debate rationally, and without getting all riled up emotionally.

You will not, in any of my 3527 (as of this one) posts find me in an onboard war. It is completely counter to the MB concepts and to the reason behind this board. It helps no one, hurts many, and does the goal of healing marriages a great disservice.

Addressing an issue I feel strongly about is an entirely different thing. That can always be done without attacking anyone or their ideas.

Going with the same set of values...respect, dignity, SELF-RESPECT.... as to the HUMANITY... of someone else...WS...BS alike... doesn't address infidelity.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. And, I want to say that self-respect is subjective - assuming one is talking in the context of feelings and not an obligation regarding actions.

Infidelity is strictly confined to ACTIONS. So that old cliche' of hate the sin, not the sinner..to me is equivalent to hate the player not the game.

Yes.

Everyone has their own opinion, and has the right to have that.

Absolutely.

It's only recently...that I've seen stuff like this. And it's a prime example of the fight or flight syndrome. Everyone is either fighting like crazy...or fleeing to someplace they feel safer.

Fleeing to someplace safer is not such a bad idea. Particularly if it is done to protect oneself or others from further harm. It's the idea behind Plan B.

I choose not to enter into the arena. Just like everyone else can.

Certainly.

It's a discussion forum...period. A message board...like I've said before... words in cyberspace.

Mmmmm.... no, really it's not. It's a discussion forum for the purpose of saving and healing marriages. If the actions of a poster go contrary to that they are violating the intent of the board and its owners.

A discussion borum provides a means...the participants, the opinions, the contributions... provide worth.

Yes. And the owner of the forum has the right to decide the purpose and direction of that forum. This one is about marriage, another might be about health, another about cars....etc. But it is still the province of the owner to make that decision.

C

Whatever...I for one will miss RM.

But 2long, if it helps you to put him behind you by calling him OM here that is your perogative.

You took a poll and RM won hands down.

The majority of us appreciate the humor in the title.

I don't take it as seriously as Cerri, JustJ and the few other's that probably voted against RM.

I really don't usually dwell on OW to even call them those derogatory terms in my head anymore.

I prayed for them...I no longer have wishes for them to burn in hell...I have hope that they have realized the error of their choices to have A's that lead to the break up their marriages. I just couldn't care less about them. Well, if I drive by their haunts then there is a passing thought...curiousity as to whether or not they have remorse or if they have turned their lives around, that's about it. I mainly hope that they never cross my H's path again.

The point, for me, is:

By obsessing about whether OM is worthy of my respect or not, and labeling him "RM" without his or my W's knowledge, I WAS giving the A, which has been pretty dead for over a year, probably longer than that, twitching or not, POWER over my own ability 2 recover my sanity (let's not get in2 an argument about whether I was EVER sane! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

I choose 2 diminish that power in any way I can.

...just talked 2 my W on the phone an hour or so ago, and she proved again what I said 2 cerri just prior - she's a lot more cheerful now than I can ever remember her being before, and I was able 2 respond with my own cheerful silliness, because I had no shred of residual fear of continued contact carried with me in2 the convo. It's a neat feeling.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong> The point, for me, is:

By obsessing about whether OM is worthy of my respect or not, and labeling him "RM" without his or my W's knowledge, I WAS giving the A, which has been pretty dead for over a year, probably longer than that, twitching or not, POWER over my own ability 2 recover my sanity (let's not get in2 an argument about whether I was EVER sane! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, thats all that counts, 2Long. But we sure did enjoy the humor behind the RatMeat moniker. Thanks for the laughs! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> just talked 2 my W on the phone an hour or so ago, and she proved again what I said 2 cerri just prior - she's a lot more cheerful now than I can ever remember her being before, and I was able 2 respond with my own cheerful silliness, because I had no shred of residual fear of continued contact carried with me in2 the convo. It's a neat feeling. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2long, this is awesome, and I am so happy for you! Cheerful silliness . . . wonderful . . .

2l,

I have been quietly debating this issue with myself and I have finally come to a conclusion and voted accordingly.

I suspect the fact that you brought this question to light might mean that YOU'VE outgrown the need to call OM "RM".

I have enjoyed your humor as you know, and I supported RM at one time...but I do believe you've evolved beyond the need to label him; and think you're ready to move on!!

Sheesh, talk about coming late to the party...I waited so long, 2l already had made up his mind!!

Trix:

"Whatever...I for one will miss RM."

Email me at the address below, and I'll be glad 2 tell you how 2 get hold of him. You can HAVE him! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Whatever...I for one will miss RM."

Email me at the address below, and I'll be glad 2 tell you how 2 get hold of him. You can HAVE him! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No need to email you. If you ever find yourself "missing him," let me know and I'll introduce you him....he's living 10 minutes away from my house (or maybe it's just his "evil twin" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Well, that isn't what I meant. But you know that.

Anyway, I don't need your former other men. After all I have OW's FOM...he's my dear H.

Fine, have it your way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> No more RM.

I just remember laughing out loud the first time I found out that it meant Rat Meat and not the guy's real initials. Time for change.

It sounds like your recovery is finally headed in the right direction and that is all the really counts.

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Trix:

Hey, I never said that Rat Meat wasn't his real name, did I?

Maybe I'm just "pretending" not 2 call him names.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

His own momma named him RAT??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Ratan..Rat for short. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
--Noodle