Yes, I think I can.

K

hi K. i think you and i have posted back and forth a few times, i have been following your sitch.i feel like im in your shoes at least a little.my wh is no longer seeing ow sexually but he still talks to her and thats supposed to be good enough for me.i told him he cant come back home until he quits talking to her.when i confront him about their continued phone calls he says "i'm not f'ing her ,so whats the problem?" no matter what i say he just doesnt get it.he says he just wants to leave everything alone and just let things end with nobody saying anything.(stupid huh?)he believes as long as he keeps giving me a lot of money and buying me gifts he can do whatever he wants and hes a good guy. NOT! if your at the end of your rope and you cant take the sitch anymore, then plan b is the way to go. yes, its a risk but it has the greatest payoff if it works.good luck K. i know you'll have the strength to follow thru with your plan.

k72172,

I am going to keep my comments brief since it is 2am Rocky Mtn. Time! (where's that snoring graemlin?)

1) Your letter is very good. It is a modified Plan B-style letter, and I have to say that I'm proud of you for thinking of it and putting pen to paper. I think you have come a long way in realizing that YOU need to stand up for YOURSELF.

2) You do have a crystal ball. You can not tell what your H will or will not do, nor can you tell if your H will continue his life journey with you or not...but you CAN tell what YOU will or will not do, and you will not do this. You can decided where you will go on your life journey: you will grow and mature as a woman!

3) Those of use who have spouses who continue contact with the OP, and who leave the WS a couple of times and execute mediocre Plan B's, do so because WE are not ready. Either we don't "get it" deep within our souls (our heads "get it" but our hearts don't yet) -OR- we still have lessons about OURSELVES that we need to finish learning, and the mediocre Plan B's are testing and learning that lesson.

4) At some point you will KNOW k72172, and here's how. At some point your H will make promises up the yin/yang and you will want to believe them, but in your heart you will tell yourself, "I am not going through this again. I can not have another false recovery. This time it's all or nothing." That's your little promise to yourself. Then...you H may break NC as he has done before and this LITTLE part of you will say, "If I put up with this again, I CAN'T TRUST MYSELF!!! I know that he is not trustworthy, but I just *have* to be able to trust myself." And that will be a sad day because you will know--it's over.

I'm going to pray for you and your H, k (not that I haven't been already), but I'm going to pray that you get to that point of making yourself a promise to respect your own self--and I'm going to pray that your H not let you down and prove himself to you.

But...

...just so you know--at this time, based on his current actions--I think you are doing exactly the right thing to show him with your ACTIONS that you love yourself too much to be treated like this. Good for you!!


CJ

Dear K,

I believe that you know your situation better than all of us and I believe you know that this is the right thing to do.

Listen to your "gut" because it will never let you down. Even if you don't have proof "black & white" and if things just don't "feel" right, they aren't right. Have "trust" in yourself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If "recovery" is real, you will feel it and I can understand you completely. Your husband isn't sticking to what he said he'd do in the first place and he isn't "opening his life" to make you feel safe, that's for sure.

I think the biggest difficulty is "grieving" for what you once had and dreaming for it to "come back", isn't this right? It's the most difficult thing to "accept" that life isn't what it once was and the tremendous changes it has brought into your life but have trust in this too. Your husband will be dealing with the same feelings.

32 Years just cannot be "whipped away" no matter what and no matter how hard your husband tries, he just can't turn to someone else and expect his life to be fantastic. He will have to face "reality" and he will have to "live it" on his own, until he "wakes up". I hope it won't be too late for him until he realizes that OW isn't what he believes she is.

K, relationships that are based on lies just don't work. The qualities you shared with your husband for many years are unique and precious. Stick to your beliefs and stay "loyal & honest" with yourself. You have every reason to be prowd of yourself.

I just really hope that you will have the strength to stick with Plan B. The "Real" Plan B. Absolutely NO CONTACT.
Let him have what he feels he needs. He will not be happy..............because the problem is a different one.
He has not been honest and he has lied to so many people. But the worse thing is, he has "lied" to himself. He cannot trust himself and he cannot stand up prowdly for his actions.

The only one that will (maybe???) give him the impression that he is a wonderfull person is OW. But "deep" inside, he is fighting. He KNOWS that this isn't what he truely wants, he just doesn't know how to do it.

He has to have "REALITY" in order to snatch out of this state of mind.

Let him HAVE IT!!!!

I think that your letter is written wonderfully. I also like the idea of telling him in person. Stay calm and loving.

You might want to make a "little" album with a few special pics of the past life that you two shared. Pack this together with his stuff, just for the "lonely" hours he will be having.
NO OW will be able to fill in these moments.

K, you gave him the chance to "change things" and you gave him the possiblility to "open up" and get away from his lies. He made his decision and you are only sticking to the "direction" that you want to go.

You want honesty and you want your marriage without a "third party". It is now up to him to "find his way" and to "find the direction" he wants to go.

Stop thinking that "you let him come home too soon". What is done is done and you still have a chance to "correct" what might of not worked the right way.

I'm feeling with you and I more than sure that you are going to make it.

take care
bb

PS: K, I also wanted to mention one thing. Try to see it this way: You are not "kicking him out" you are "letting him fly" the flight he has decided for. You are setting boundaries and you are sticking to them. He had/has a choice, so if he leaves the house he is not being "kicked out".
He is leaving because it is "his choice". There is simply no place for a "third person".
How about asking your husband if he feels good about the idea of sharing you with another man? I'm sure he'd "freak out!"

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: blondblossom ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Listen to your "gut" because it will never let you down. Even if you don't have proof "black & white" and if things just don't "feel" right, they aren't right. Have "trust" in yourself.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree with this. For years my gut told me things about my WH (STBX) that I could never prove. He was a very good liar and good at convincing me I was nuts to think these things. It caused a lot of the problems in our M. But now looking back, I realize my gut was right. After D-day I've heard even more things about my WH (like going to strip clubs, something he knows I'm totally against and he has never told me about, always lied) and taking his wedding ring off when he goes "out with the guys." So I wasn't crazy all these years. My gut was correct. I should've listened to it a long time ago. It's only now that I had PROOF about the A that he actually confessed to it. He tried to deny it initially until he couldn't deny it any longer. The only good thing is that WH did admit to continued C while he was still living here(although probably not 100% honestly...I'm sure there was more C than he told me about). I didn't kick him out. He knew what my conditions/boundaries were and he couldn't hold up his end of the bargain. So it was HIS CHOICE to leave. Now I'm convinced that this M is not salvagable and we're heading for D. I'm okay with this, though. I've prayed about it and realize it's the right thing for ME. So I say, go with your gut. But think about it long and hard. Initially I just wanted to do whatever it took to save the M because I felt that all M's should be saved. But I've thought about it, prayed about it and now I realize that OUR M shouldn't. I can never truly trust my WH again. There have been too many lies, too much betrayal and deceit. He's not the man I married and I'm not willing to take the chance to see whether he ever will be again. He will never be willing to do what I need for him to do in order to recover our M. Now that I've really SEEN the man my WH has become, OW can HAVE him...I don't want him.

So really look at your situation, think about it, pray about it (if that's something you do) and then make your decision. You'll feel it and know it.

For me, it was figuring out what I NEEDED in order for the M to work and letting WH know what that was (my conditions/boundaries). WH wasn't willing to do it.

It took my H moving in with OW for that A to finally end a month or two later. OW did have 3 children at home so he was like elephant in what was another man's former family, bed and house. This was after she divorced her wealthy H to be with mine. (Actually, I think it was her exit A)

It can be a crap shoot. I think that Harley does say that it sometimes takes this for the WS to finally see the reality of their choices.

K, I'm glad you are implementing this Plan B to his face. Be the very strong woman you are. We'll all be here to support you. You deserve better than his wishy washy behavior. I agree! Let the OW meet all his ENs. See how long that lasts. Hang in there! CV

Thanks for all your replies.

I am listening to my gut. I will do this face to face. I am strong. I can no longer let my life be turned into suspicion and lies.

He needs to get his act together. That's final.

Thanks for your prayers. I do pray. WH used to be a very religious person. He's gotten so far away from his roots, that he's turned himself into a different kind of tree, so to speak.

Again, thanks for all your support.

K

K,
you're going to make it and I feel that this is going to have a positive outcome. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My thoughts are with you.

Take care of yourself

hugs
bb

thanks bb....

((((((hugs))))))

I'm hugging myself right now. I need it. Especially from myself.

WH is still in C with OW. He didn't erase the last time he called her at work from his work cell.

So, with prayer, and much thought, I will do this. I pray God keeps me strong.

K

K, I firmly believe you are doing the right thing. You have been putting up with lies for too long. It's not like your H's A is not known by you. You have demanded honesty, he says he wants the M, but he continues to lie. I say let him get his SH&& together. You deserve to have some peace in your life. The way you're living has to produce high levels of anxiety. I'm sending prayers your way! CV

K,
I'll be looking in here every now and then this evening (it's nite time over here now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) so if you need someone to talk to, I'll be here for you.

I can imagine what you are going through.........poor girl. Let me give ya a pat on the back and a hug. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Take a look at this link K, it's very interesting. http://www.drjoecarver.com/

look at: "Identifying Losers in Relationships."
stay strong
bb

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: blondblossom ]</small>

With you K
((((((((((((((((((((K)))))))))))))))))))))))))

Update.....

I think you must bring out the 2x4's.....I am frozen with doubt? fear? anxiety? Will this be the actual END of our M?

I don't know.

I am telling myself that I'm waiting for the right moment....something to happen that gets my anger or indignation up enough to let him have it.

I keep watching his cell log and timer. He called OW at the office on Thursday. Yesterday, he erased one call from his call log.

I KNOW that I will do this. I cannot go on with his continued contact.

Then, I tell myself...."But he's acting so nice." And I know he's just trying to keep things smoothed over.

Whether it happens today, or tomorrow, please pray for me that God gives me the strength to do this, and do it well.

K

k,

can you just ask him what his opinion is about "Honesty & openness?"

Ask him how important it is to him and if he expects it from others............

Ask him what he'd do in your situation.

bb

Hi bb.....

Yes, I think this would be a good way to approach it. Because he KNOWS he is not honest, still.

I have all day to think about this.

I know it has to happen. And I know he can feel my withdrawl from him.

Makes me wonder if he is as afraid as I am.....

K

Alright, K, why aren't you confronting him with this information? You are waiting until you blow a gasket again and that is the wrong time to confront him. All you do is lovebust when you let things build up to that level. Anger does NOT compensate for a lack of courage!

It only makes it worse. The time to address him with this information and go back into Plan B is when you are NOT MAD, when you are calm and collected and in full control of your emotions. I don't know what you are afraid of, you act like you have done something wrong here. You are not the guilty party, K.

Now, I am concerned that you keep going in and out of Plan B as your resolve wavers. That sends him a very confusing message. He knows he can con his way back in with very little effort. You do realize that, don't you? Every time you let him back in like that, it erodes your credibility and hampers your ability to really end the affair once and for all.

So what is my point? Don't wait until you are ANGRY to do the inevitable, it will only make it worse. But by the same token, DON'T DO IT UNLESS YOU MEAN IT! Don't go into Plan B, yet again, unless you can stick to your guns. See what I mean, K?

Yes, Mel, I see what you mean.

I need to get my COURAGE up, because I know that when I do this, there will be no going back.

I know in my heart and in my head, this is the real deal. This is either the end, or a real beginning.

I have done nothing wrong. I know this.

K

K, after d-day for me I went through all of the usual symptoms that occur when your world has been shattered by betrayal. I ouldn't eat, sleep, cried all the time, felt utterly hopeless, and on and on and on. I can tell you this. As bad as that was, as excrutiating as the pain was, I KNEW it was better than when I was living with all of the lies and deception. I knew that whatever happened, whether H left me for OW or chose to be with me, life would still be better living with the truth. I believe that Melodie is correct that you need to know your mind. You know what, your choices suck. Confront your H, impement Plan B, and maybe he will go to OW and your M will finally end. Or you can keep living the way you are now. Not trusting your H, believing he is still in contact with the OW, and not having him really invested in true recovery. Maybe there is another option I'm not thinking of. Sometimes our choices are a matter of picking the option that sucks the least. I'll be thinking of you today and checking in. CV

CV55, see, I don't think for a minute he will end up with the OW. I think there is a greater chance of that happening if he is able to carry on his affair WHILE he stays at home in his marriage.

When he has had that chance in the past he has come runnning back - in frantic distress - to K. He quickly realizes that the OW cannot meet his needs. And more importantly, he cannot bear the guilt and shame he feels with the OW. He feels dirty with her, he feels whole and clean with K. I think that means alot to him.

So, I am really not worried about divorce because it is apparent to me that his affair can't last unless K props him up like she has been doing.

The problem in the past has been that she has let him back too soon. She lets him back before he is really done with his affair. He is not done at all, he desperately needs both women and will do anything to maintain that status quo.

So that is why I think Plan B is her optimal solution. But she must be committed this time or she will lose all credibility. She has already lost alot.

K, I am thinking that the next time you might make one of the conditions that your H talk to SH BEFORE you agree to take him back.

And I really think that exposure is the only way to go here. This affair is going to keep popping up in your lives for years to come if he is working with her. You simply can't recover if he goes in and has that drink every morning.