K,

open up completely towards him........what do you have to loose?

I'm just thinking back and I remember when I was once talking with my husband about "honesty". I knew for a fact that he had lied to me again and I told him the following:

Husband are you aware that "honesty" gives on a feeling of freedom??
Are you aware that "I, bb" would love to know the "true you" and that if you don't open up and be completely honest, you are hiding the true you from others.
You are then not even being honest with yourself because you are afraid that others will not love and accept "you" for who you truely are.
Doesn't this make you sad???.........

Share with him that you "know" that he still is in contact with OW and that you defintely know that he erases calls on his cell.
Again, what do you have to loose?

K, you know these things and he simply isn't being honest about them. If he was "honest" he'd have absolutely NO reason to keep these details to himself. He is withholding them from you because he is not honest and he is "Avoiding the conflict" this will bring.

If he didn't withhold these details and if he was "Truely serious" about wanting your marriage to work, he would "understand" how important these kinda things are.

One more thing: If he believes that he wouldn't have the same hastle with OW, then he'd have to "open up" towards her and be completely "honest". If he still believes that OW wouldn't make a hastle about the fact that he "hides" things from her, then he better think about the relationship with OW very seriously because that says alot about OW and her values.

This means that OW doesn't care about "Honesty" and again what does that say about her????

Now to your problem about being "scared" about the next steps.
When I was in councelling the coucellour spoke about resolving problems and the way we do that.

We try to solve a problem one way and when it doesn't work, we try it another way and if that doesn't work, we try to do it one more way. But sooner or later we are in a cycle............

We are trying to solve a problem and we seem to be "hitting the wall" each time because nothing seems to work.
If our motivation is to act a special way because we are scared that our loved one will leave us, we are blocking ourselves..........

Gosh, I hope this makes sence.

I'll try to explain a bit better. I love dogs and I used to breed dogs. I went to dog shows and did many things that involved dogs. I was truely passionate about this and it fullfilled me.
Something terrible happened during the time I was at a dog show and I found out that my husband wanted to leave me with OW when I had plans to go to Sweden.
I found out about all of this after D-d. It's a terrible trigger for me and it kills me inside.

Anyways, since then I have lost my passion for breeding and I can't go to dogshows anymore. Everything I loved to do is "blocked out".
This is my reaction of trying to "change things". I have mentally "shut this out" due to the fear of loosing my husband............

But I have realized that getting involved with dogs again will "never" be the reason for my husband to "leave me. So I am starting to get involved again "step by step". I'm just doing it differently.
I realize that my husband is responsible for what he does and it is up to him to be honest and to tell me when he is "missing out on something".

I have made it clear to him that all I need is his honesty and for him to be open.

He has "gotten it".....................

So now to you. You are afraid that your husband will run to OW............well you know that he is still in contact, don't you?
You're afraid that he will leave you forever because you "DEMAND" honesty???? Is this correct??

You have had 2 false recoverys haven't you?
This could be the third and it could be the last. No matter what outcome it will have, right?

So what road do you want to go??? Do you want to live a life of being afraid that he will still be in contact with OW and that he still might be having an affair???? Do you want this?
The only thing you know in your situation now is that your husband is "with" you in the house and he is with you in the evenings and he is sleeping in your house in the night times. He is doing things with you and you have controll about this because you are seeing it.

But you are afraid the moment he leaves the house. This is when you loose the controll of "seeing" what he is up to.

K, only someone that is not honest will be upset when someone "demands" honesty!!!!!!!!!!!

I remember back at the beginning of our recovery. My husband would get terribly upset when I wanted honesty. Things didn't seem right to me and they didn't feel right. My gut was screaming at me "full blast".

I listened to my gut and I did find many lies. I found proof over and over again and I confronted my husband every time.
He got furious many times and he wanted to leave just as many times................but this really has changed alot.

When my husband came clean and when he became open and honest, I definately felt the difference. You can feel it when it's true and it's just a matter of trusting your gut.

If your husband is not being honest with you what are you afraid of??? Are you afraid that OW will get him and that he will be the most honest and honerable man in the world??? Are you afraid that he will suddenly be a "open and honest" man will high morals???
Are you afraid that she will have the man that you once had years ago???

K, think!!!!!! She's going to have the man that she thinks he is. But he isn't the man she thinks he is!!!
He's a lier, a cheater and he's even good at that. She'll have the man that got good at doing these "low things".

She's going to get the "leftovers" of a husband and imagine what a hard job she's going to have, convincing him that he's a great man.
You know your husband from all sides and so far you haven't been able to get over to him that "honesty& openness". How will she be able to convince him that he is an honest man?? How will she convince him that what he is doing is the right thing?? He knows it isn't!!!!!!

OW might be able to convince your husband for a short period of time but sooner or later your husband is going to snatch out of this cycle. He has lived a honest and honerable life for too long and therefore he will not be able to stand up for something else for too long anymore.

Therefore I believe what Harley says. He has to "live the fantasy" in order to get back into reality.

This is going to be definately a load of work for OW.............she's going to have to "lift up" a man that threatens suicide and that is depressive because I can't believe that this is just going to go away!!!! He's going to go through great downs because he not expecting this!!!

He is used to a K that gives in and he is used to a K that is afraid to stick to what she says.
I'm sure he would never behave the way he does with OW.
He just can't be his true self when he together with OW. He can't "fall apart" and tell her he wants to commit suicide.

Well at least I don't believe that. He might do things to get pity from her but if he would act the way he does with you I'm pretty sure that OW wouldn't find that too appealing, would she??? Who'd honestly want a "cracked up" cheating husband that is depressive and suicidal and cranky???
Who'd want a man in his 50's that has to split his money???

K, you've known him for soooooo long and the way he is isn't appealing to you right now either is it???? He is difficult and cranky...........he's far from what a woman dreams for. He's unhappy and the reasons for his unhappyness lie within "himself!" No one can make him happy only HE HIMSELF can do this!!!!!

I believe he will become aware of all of this within time.

Gosh, this has gotten long............I hope tat some of this makes sence.

hugs
bb

You are all correct. And I appreciate your honesty with me.

WH was an honest and honorable man. He can be again.

I think this is the only way to let him hit the real bottom of the barrel. (It's hard to watch)

But I think you are all right. Something has got to go MY way sooner or later. And I'm the only one that can make that happen.

Some of your words sting, but they help me see the truth of this situation, and the truth about myself.

I must be true to myself..... NOW.... or I will be lost in the muck.

Thank You !!!!!! (from the bottom of my heart - thanks for your support)

K

K,

even if it's difficult, it's a good feeling to "live" what you believe in. It's easy at times to "loose direction" and yet when you get on track again, it makes alot of sence.

If a lier tries to convince you that lying is the right thing..........gosh, it's simply time to "rethink" about yourself, isn't it????

But I sure do understand how easy it is to loose trust in yourself when you're in the situation yourself.

I doubted "myself" also. When my husband once told me that "going out with any other woman" was normal, I started to think that "I" was not thinking right......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

When I caught him lying, he seemed to have a way to make me feel bad about myself. I began to feel that "honesty" was not a important thing between two people.
Everytime he would get mad at me and when he told me he was leaving (because he had lied) I felt guilty.

Hey, K, this cannot be right!!!!!!

Lies are NOT good and if a person lies to "you" he will lie to others!!!! Remember that.

You are either honest or not. Period.

So it is really time for your husband to "Shape up or ship out!".

It was his choice to move back home and he did tell you that he had made a choice. He knows that you will not accept a third person in your marriage................but he is simply not doing his part of the deal.

Have "trust in yourself"!!!! If it takes OW to make him an honest and honerable man then it is up to him to find this out.

But we all know, what starts as a lie will end as a lie. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> OW is putting up with his lies and sneakiness. You are NOT!!!

You are different than OW and this can make you feel prowd of yourself. You will not put up with half of a man. You want him either "complete" or not at all. Or???

take care
bb

Thanks, bb....

I will take care. I am formulating in my mind what I will say.

I will start with "I think you can see that I am not happy, and haven't been since you came home. It's because....."

I need to stand up for myself. I'm sure that he will not read the letter. But I will tell him to read it when he feels like he really wants to come back to me.

He will say he has no place to go. But he does, I'm not worried about that.

I will check in later with an update.

Thanks, again.

K

K???????????????

how are you?

bb

Hi bb....

I am doing okay. We are still in our "talk".

I will check in later to update.

Thanks for thinking of me.

K

Update.....

Talked to WH several times this weekend. The whole situation is weird.

I confronted him with his still calling OW on his cell. "You're just trying to get me to say things."

I told him I would not tolerate it. No contact what so ever. Period. "I have to call her sometimes for work."

I told him to have someone else do it.

He started to leave a couple of times. But didn't- or should I say, wouldn't. "I'm not happy when I'm with OW. All I can think about is you, and being here."

He has refused to be honest. He has refused to talk to SH. So I used SH's words "If you are sick, and don't get well, you go to a doctor. How sick does our marriage have to get before you go to the doctor?"

WH: "I have too many other things to get over first."

Last night, after starting to leave, then not leaving, I said "Will you do ANYTHING to help fix our situation?"

WH just looked at me.

The whole thing is almost comical. I will talk to SH on Thursday. I will keep after WH to talk to him also.

So, in a nutshell, he's leaving, he won't leave, he won't talk to anyone, he still won't be honest.

That's where I'm at right now. I'm not going to let this go until I get some kind of "satisfaction".

So, bring out the 2x4's, but I can tell you this, I WILL NOT let this go on. My patience wears very thin.

K

No 2x4s..just a suggestion.

If and when you do decide to execute plan B.

No discussion. Just your absence and a plan B letter.

He is dancing you around in semantic cirlces.

When you are dizzy you can't think clearly and are easily sidetracked.

No discussion..just you being gone with no explanation but your excellent plan B letter.

Noodle

One more thing.

K..he's getting complacent. He doesn't respect your request that he leave any longer..he doesn't respect you. He has seen you back down too easily and too often. Be sure of what you want before you act..be sure enough to pay for it.

Noodle

Hi noodle....

What do you mean "be sure before you act...be sure enough to pay for it"?

What I mean is..when you act..act because you have decided that this IS done. That you are done with this life..that it must change with or without him.

Do not plan B with the ASSUMPTION that things will work out..do not try to angle things this way.

If you walk away..or tell him to..you must be prepared for it to be permanent..even as you hope that it isn't. Until you are in that *place*..you aren't ready.

Noodle

k72:

I think it is pretty clear to me that your WHy does NOT respect you or fear your actions. You unfortunately have lost credibility in your words. It is all summed up when you come on here and post "I am not gonna take much more of this". Well, to be blunt, you are taking much more of this. Please do not expect things to change without DRASTIC action by you. I know that it muct be hard. I do not envy having to be you. Just please see this for what it really is. Stop the rationlaizations and denial. You are only going to relive the past. History is repeating itslef and you are letting it. Sorry for your continued pain. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Update....

I have been reading over my previous posts, and realize that I do need to clear up one thing.

Though the situation has been weird, and I feel, totally unresolved, I realized that I did't say that I had NOT told WH to leave.

He was, on his own, going to leave a couple of times. I thought that this would prevent me from actually saying the words "You need to leave".

I guess, looking things over, that I am not ready for the total "Get out" words yet. So, I guess I am NOT ready to go to Plan B again, yet.

However, I still have my letter, and do not feel in myself, if things should get worse, that I would have any problems with giving it to him, and not looking back. My WH's account in my LB is in the red. And has been for a while.

As far as I can see, WH did not contact OW yesterday. He stayed home from work, and went hunting. Then came to the clinic where I work to see the doctor for his back pain.

The doctor asked him how his stress level was, and WH told him it was very high. But the doctor did not press WH for more info, even though he knows the whole situation.

At home last night, WH was a little more upbeat. I helped him do some stretching exercises, he took his anti-inflammatory, muscle relaxer, then went to sleep.

I went and looked at his cell. Everything there matched up. I still fully realize that he could be getting in touch with OW in some other way, but I don't think he did.

I will ask him again if he will talk to SH with me on Thursday morning.

After reading LINY and brown's posts (and others), I see that some contact with the OP after a start at "recovery" is common.

Exactly, how common is it? What other things should I do - or not do - to help this recovery process? I KNOW what text book thing the WS should be doing, but, as we know, most situations are not textbook.

Any insight out there?

K

Okay, so none of you will talk to me. That's okay.

I have one new thing to report.

This morning, after posting here, I sent an e-mail to WH at work.

I told him I have not asked for much since this situation came about, mostly just his honesty. I asked him if he would do one thing for me, for us. Would he talk with SH with me on Thursday morning?

I just received an e-mail from him. He said "I'm not comfortable with it, but I will do it."

My eyes are tearing up right now.

Am I soft in the head? Or is this a good sign?

K

K, it is a very good sign. SH is really good talking to a WS. At some point I would like for you to insist on talking to Steve, IC, or MC as part of recovery. Good luck! CV

Thanks, CV...

I AM taking it as a good sign. I think I will call and leave a message for SH saying that my WH will be joining me in our session.

That he will do this, means a lot to me. So far, it's the only sign of ANYTHING positive.

K

K,

just read your post and I wanted to say that it sounds "very good" what your husband has told you.

He doesn't feel good about it but he will do it for you.

This could be a "tiny little" step into a positive direction.

The only thing that does disturb me is the fact that he is struggling with "back pain". To me this is a sign of extreme pressure and burden.

My husband had terrible backaches and a neckbone infection during his affair. He had very bad head aches and high blood pressure.
I am now aware (and so is my husband) that this was due to the "stress" he was going through and his body was reacting.

After d-d and after he was over with "withdrawel & fog" these things stopped. He has never again had high bloodpressure nor does he have any backaches anymore.

So I think that your husband is still going through "withdrawel" or maybe the contact is "now really ending".................maybe he is now starting to come out of "withdrawel & fog" in little steps.

You said that he leaves his cellphone out in the open now or????

This too was a sign that my husband was coming out of the withdrawel. Right after d-d he left his phone in the car. He was still lying to me at this time but the contact had really ended.
He was just "hoping" that OW would "maybe" try to contact him.

But when he started to "think clearly again" he left his cellphone out in the open and I was able to look whenever I wanted to.

I think that "withdrawel" ends in little steps. It's "letting go" little by little and I guess now when I think back that it was terribly painfull for my husband.
But now, he thinks he was NUTS and he can't understand himself.

I Planned A throughout this whole time.( I didn't know MB at that time, I found out 1 year later)

take care
bb

Hi bb....

I am very pleased that WH is doing this for me.

It is a step in the right direction, as far as I am concerned.

No, he still leaves his cell phones in his car at night. I still go out and look at them.

I was thinking that perhaps "kicking him out" for phone contact with OW might have been a little too drastic. I hope he has not lost all respect for me and my wishes.

I continue to Plan A while I can. I guess I'm really not ready for another, final, Plan B as I thought I was.

My hope is that SH will say something to help WH see where this COULD go, and really give him some encouragement, and a little something to build on.

I will check in later. I have a staff meeting to go to now.

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.

K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong>....This morning, after posting here, I sent an e-mail to WH at work.

I told him I have not asked for much since this situation came about, mostly just his honesty. I asked him if he would do one thing for me, for us. Would he talk with SH with me on Thursday morning?

I just received an e-mail from him. He said "I'm not comfortable with it, but I will do it."

My eyes are tearing up right now.

Am I soft in the head? Or is this a good sign?

K </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMHO, U R being too soft. Why? Because if he can get you to do his bidding, you are settling for less than 1/2. Where is his reassurance and commitment to you?

When my Ws told me the same it ended up putting him back in contact with the WS. I wanted sooo much to believe him and see hope. What I got was more heartache and eventually had to kick him out.

Think about it.

L.

Hi, Orchid....

I am thinking about it. Still do not trust WH. I am hoping this is a positive step forward.

I hope that SH can give WH encouragement in this.

Until this morning, he would not talk to anyone. Period.

I hope this doesn't end up like it did for you. I have kept my letter, in it's envelope ready for action.

My suspicions remain high. I keep on the lookout. This is probably not a good sign for me that I keep feeling this way, but it will probably not change for me until I SEE some REAL progress.

For right now, this is what I have to work with.

I remember when we went to a MC right after D day. WH was telling lies to the MC just like he was to me.

I take baby steps, look to the future with small hope, and try to do what I can. If it does not go well, I have no problem kicking him out.

K