</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SoNumb:
<strong> ... She wants someone else to make the decision, I don't want to give her the satisfaction. Yet, sometimes when I am with her, I want her back, but I have those feelings less and less and its scary.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny you mention her not wanting to make the decision yourself and force you to do it. Its funny that my WW has refered to our separation as me "kicking her out" despite the fact that she was the one having the A. Its amazing what a warped world the fog puts you in.

sonumb - i'm in your boat - my husband still on fence and wants someone else to make the decision - amazing, huh? They make the decision to continue w/ the destructive behavior (my husband's words) but can't develop the spine to take care of the mess made of our marriage... I'm 6 wks post d-day - still love him - still holding out hope (based on things he says to me to keep me around) but gee how stupid am I?? haven't figured that out yet.... still torn. but trying to separate myself from him though he is resisting... ugh!

As someone who has gone through divorce, I can tell you that no matter where you are in the divorce process [before or after], your emotions will not be that much different. But what I found out that helped me tremendously was that prior to my divorce, I did 2 things: I emotionally detached from my then STBXWW AND I expanded my range of activities which included making friends with other women [No not to have a so called revenge affair of my own]. I found out that I could have friendship with women but always with BOUNDARIES. In other words, I got a life that did not revolved upon what my then STBXWW did or did not do. Not only did I stopped feeling like a doormat but my newfound confidence sent a very clear message to my STBXWW that no matter what the outcome of our marriage was going to be, I would not only survive but I would thrive in my new life as well. I stopped chasing her and instead started chasing my own happiness. I hope you read the links to Dr Robert Huizenga's 7 Powerful Tactics to Break Free From The Affair and Stop it NOW!; 12 Unattractive, Ugly, Typical Tact...he Affair and Guarantee Their Own Misery; and Michelle Weiner Davis's Divorce Busting 180 Degree List for ways to achieve this emotional independence. Remember, No amount of words on your part will convince your WW about your changes, but your actions certainly will.

Well, my WW just called. She told me that she has been alone the past two nights. She did say that she called the OM last night and they went out to dinner and she told him that she can't do this with him and that she wants to work on the marriage. He left around midnight last night and that was that.

Am I crazy because I want to believe her? Please tell me I'm crazy.

Misn'tF

She said that she didn't have sex with him. They just went to dinner and called the whole thing off. She ended up in Ann Arbor, not where she told me she would be going and a lot closer to the OM. She said due to traffic and daydreaming she missed her exits for the cities where she said she would most likely go to.

Misn'tF

Is it possible to try Plan B before you Plan D?

You take yourself and your children out of the crazy mix and isolate your S to help her de-fog.

Plus you buy yourself a bit of time. I don't trust my feelings since they tend to be selfish brats that want their way right now, all of the time. If you are seriously thinking about a D I would call one of the Harleys first and just talk through what your experiencing. Hey, a divorce is expensive so a phone consultation with an marraige/ A expert is just a drop in the bucket.

Personally, I think the WS doesn't truely understand the importance of NC until they have been out of the fog for a while. Until they understand that it was an addictive fantasy, it's considered to be a star crossed lovers type of thing. So don't go Romeo & Juliet on us. One of the tradegies of that play is if Romeo and Juliet had any patience and waited just 5 minutes, they could've been together.

Well, I just called the OM and he didn't want to really talk so I told him that I knew he was with my WW the last two nights and he didn't deny it. He said "If you already know what happened then why do I need to tell you?"

Misn'tF

Actions on her part are what matters NOT cheap words. Please convey this to her in a respectful, calm and quiet way.

I did. I told her that I wanted her to come home and we could get through this but I need her actions to refelct her words. I also told her it would take some time for me to get through this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marriage isn't forever:
<strong> I did. I told her that I wanted her to come home and we could get through this but I need her actions to refelct her words. I also told her it would take some time for me to get through this. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good luck man. Not much else to add. I hope you feel this is the "right" thing for you. Your wife muct be an incredibly fanatstic woman for you to go through this stuff time and time again. No advice here, you are going to do what you feel you have to do. Best wishes with this !

I don't know what is the "right" thing.

My 2 cents: Be very wary and very careful. My STBXH told me lots and lots of things that weren't true. He lied every chance he got about what wasn't happening (but really WAS) with OW.

First told me nothing to worry about--just friends. Gut told me different, but I wanted to believe him, so I did. Then told me not going to sleep with her, but he did. Then told me it only happened once. But found out a couple months later that it was a very regular thing.

Told me in December that he needed a weekend away to think. I went to my parents. He supposedly went hunting. His secret was out when his "hunting partner" called looking for him, because he never showed.

Told me to lay off and give him space...that he was "working on breaking things off with OW". Never happened. He just wanted to have her but keep me waiting just in case things didn't work out.

He blames ME for our being separated. He say I told him to move out.

Hello! Yes, I did tell him in a letter that maybe he should move, but he left out the part about "if he can't quit seeing OW"!! I believe if one is having an A, it is not an unrealistic expectation to expect them to end it if they want to remain at home??

And finally, he wouldn't make the decision, so in August I filed for DV. This has also been spun around. It is MY fault that we're not together because I filed. Uh...it's hard to be married to someone when they're living with someone else?!

So, sorry to rant on about myself, and your wife may be TOTALLY sincere. Just be very, very, very careful and watch those actions and not the words. I'm all for saving a marriage. I still have a lot of doubts about what I'm doing. But I'm within a few days of being DV.

You have a lot to decide yet.

One other thing. I didn't do a Plan B. I was scolded on here for not doing it. In my situation, I don't think it would have made a difference. My STBXH has done a great job of pulling away from me over the months. And we have some extra issues--namely his alcoholism.

But for a normal relationship, it probably should be considered as an option.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marriage isn't forever:
<strong> I don't know what is the "right" thing. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, then you just do what your heart tells you. You may get hurt again (very likely unfortunately) but what other choice do you have? I don't think you are at that "place" where you are ready to truly call it quits and divorce her for HER ACTIONS. This is a tough thing, believe me I know. When you finally het to that "place" there was nothing my wife could do to "win me back". My love for her died. I do not think you are anywhere near that yet. There are many many opitimstic posters here who can help you navigate this trajedy and help you win your WS back. Good luck.

I don't know if I'm ready to end this marriage, but she needs to demonstrate by her actions that she is serious. She also needs to come clean about this whole situation. Here are the events from the last 2 days. </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Going to spend time alone to work her thoughts out</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Going to be in a hotel North of the Detroit area (nowhere near OM)</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Will leave cell phone on so I can call her anytime</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not going to be with OM</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Said would call Thurs. evening to speak to kids</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Didn't call Thurs. evening</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I called her 10PM, her phone rings right into voice mail. Indicating phone not on</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I call OM's house, his parents say he left Wed. evening and said he would be gone a couple of days</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OM told mom to respect his privacy when she asked where he was going</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told WW of my suspicions and she admitted to seeing OM</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She says she called him last night, he came to visit her and they went out to dinner</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Said cell phone was on but never rang</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">at dinner they discussed how she can't do that any more and she wants to work on her marriage</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He left around midnight</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She says she doesn't know where he had been staying the last 2 nights, they weren't with her</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I asked how she ended up in Ann Arbor (30 mins from OM's home)</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WW says was daydreaming when she passed her first destination</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Traffic wouldn't allow her to exit at her second planned destination (both N of Detroit)</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She went to Ann Arbor because she was familiar with area</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I call OM and talk to him. I told him that WW said they were together the last 2 nights</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OM doesn't deny it. He says well, WW told you everything, why do you need to hear it from me</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I confront WW about being honest, she gets defensive and says that she was with OM and they SF all night long (sarcastically)</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WW says that I was going to believe what I wanted so she might as well tell me that's what happened.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Here is how I see it. WW intended on having rendesvous with OM. She had no intentions of staying in hotel N of Detroit, she could have exited anywhere and found a suitable place to stay. WW turned her phone off so she didn't have to deal with me calling (she is in a major metropolitan area and no excuse for no coverage). I don't know if I can believe her when she says she has put him out of her life. I need WW to start being honest IF we are to get through this. She can start by giving me all the gory details of their A (yes, for some morbid reason I want to hear them. I figure it will be a sign that she is willing to be honest with me.) She also needs to stick to NC. I mean the above, I think, paints a pretty clear picture of what happened. Why she can't look at the writing on the wall and come clean about this is beyond me.

I am so furious with her right now it's not even funny. I think I will tell her that if we are going to work on this she will have to prove to me with her actions that she means it. If she has ANY contact with OM at all in the future, I will walk away. I can't keep going through this. That is the only way I can see this working.

What do you all think?

Misn'tF

Just wanted to let you know that I have been following your thread and even though I hardly ever post, I think as a Former WW I pretty much knew as soon as shem (WW) wasn't staying at her mothers house what she was up to...it's so obvious to everyone around the WS, but yet we (WS) can spin things even in our own mind so that we almost believe it ourselves.

I know you want to save your marriage, and i'm not qualified to tell you if your plan to do that is a good one, I just hope that if you give her this chance to get away with her lies, that you stick to your promise next time and hold her accountable for her actions. If your WW knows she can get away with pulling something this brazen, she won't have much of an incentive to do NC and work on the M the way she needs to.

I hope it all works out for you and your family, just keep your eyes open and don't let plan A turn into 'plan letting my WS get away with murder'...Hang tough, you're right..you do deserve better and I truly hope you get it...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dreamcatcher:
<strong> Just wanted to let you know that I have been following your thread and even though I hardly ever post, I think as a Former WW I pretty much knew as soon as shem (WW) wasn't staying at her mothers house what she was up to...it's so obvious to everyone around the WS, but yet we (WS) can spin things even in our own mind so that we almost believe it ourselves.

I know you want to save your marriage, and i'm not qualified to tell you if your plan to do that is a good one, I just hope that if you give her this chance to get away with her lies, that you stick to your promise next time and hold her accountable for her actions. If your WW knows she can get away with pulling something this brazen, she won't have much of an incentive to do NC and work on the M the way she needs to.

I hope it all works out for you and your family, just keep your eyes open and don't let plan A turn into 'plan letting my WS get away with murder'...Hang tough, you're right..you do deserve better and I truly hope you get it... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She keeps throwing the fact that she has been unhappy for the last 10 years in my face. I have appologized over and over again. I told her I can't change the past. I can only work on the future. I have been working hard too, and this is how she repays me????? I told her she should have left me if she was that miserable, but don't cheat on me.

I really am tired of being a doormat. I have bent over backward the last 7 weeks and all she has done is rip my heart out time and again. I think I will keep the appointment with the attorney on Mon. I mean it can always be recinded and that way if she does stray again I will be that much closer to freedom. If she starts acting the way a wife should and shows true commintment then I can recind the divorce.

Misn'tF

Dear MIF,
My WH did and said all the same things! I have been in Plan A for 9 mths. Looking back now, that was waaayyy too long! I became an enabler, he would talk to OW (she was out of state) and tell me he had to leave...this happened twice in the last 2 mths. But never would leave. I finally set my mind to a specific date (our 10th anniver.) that if he was still in contact (I tried negotiating NC for months) he would say he tried but missed talking to her!)I would tell him that Now, I needed him to leave because I was worth more and I can look myself in the mirror and know in my heart that I made all the nec. changes and fought the fight to the best of my ability!! He even said "are you pushing me out the door?" I said YES, go find your happiness! Then I helped him pack and he bawled like a baby! He then said to me that he needed to find out if OW was just a fantasy or not...I said you are free to go find out and I love you but I WILL NOT live another day with OW in OUR lives! WH went to visit OW, called me on way back stating I love you very much, I missed you and I told him too bad, I am done, I have contacted attorney, and started paperwork! He actually said "You are going to divorce me?" It was not until then that he FINALLY asked me not to give up on us! He asked if I would take him back, and I said I will not share him ever again, I guess my message to you is that up until I forced my boundaries (which believe me was sooo hard) did WH get a wake up call! We are still very early in recovery, and I would not bet my next check on him not slipping with NC (OW wont give up) but I am stronger and know now that some things are just out of my circle of influence! I believe WH also knows he has pushed me toooo far. We will see! I look back now and just wish I would have enforced my boundaries sooner, like after 6 mths of Plan A which I believe with all my heart and soul IS what worked to get us where we are today! So, follow MB guidlines, Plan A for a certain timeline is very important!

sabot,

That is exactly what I am doing. I am enforcing my boundries. If she really wants this marriage to work she will start today.

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I NEED to know the absolute truth about this. I can not learn to trust her if she can't come clean (she can demonstrate that she is trying to be trustworthy and honest by coming clean)</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is to have NC with OM EVER AGAIN! One phone call, one email one letter and I am done!</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She needs to back her words up with her actions. For the past 2 months she's said one thing and done another.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Those are pretty much it if we stand a remote chance. I am truly at my limit right now.

Misn'tF

Sabot - not to change the subject away from MIF but -- seems i've got a similar situation going on in my life - 6 wks post d-day (coming up on 7) w/ WH still in contact w/ OW (and probably w/ her or on the way to her as i type this - gag) Wondering how you managed 9 months w/ him while he was still in contact w/ OW? I'm not even close to that and am nearing wits end - have gotten lots of advice on Plan A and think i've been sort of doing that all along (not completely though). My WH is so back and forth w/ everything - he is crazy - any step i try to take to separate us meets resistance -- but he has no interest currently in working on the marriage cause he doesn't know what he wants... anyway - just wondering if you can help me w/ coping during plan A - not sure that i'll even make it to 6 months but any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

She should be home any time now, and I am so furious that I think I am going to take off. Tell her that i need time to get my head straight and have her really listen to the story she has created and see if she finds it believable. Decide what she really wants, and if she wants to save this marriage then she will be 100%, totally and completely honest about this whole $hitty thing. She can think about it while I am out and decide if she wants to tell a more acurate and believable story. The one she gave me is so full of holes it's not even funny. Strange how she can think it sounds believable. I mean, daydream and miss one exit, traffic causes you to miss the second. Why not turn around and go back? Then because she is familiar with the area she drives another 45 miles passing god only knows how many hotels to stay at one 30 miles from OM. He leaves his house and tells mom he will be gone for 2 days. Lo and behold, my WW was in the area for 2 days!

Amazing!