Bob,

There may be another reason why she maybe holding on to the OM's letters and that is to remind herself of all the lies OM told her and her stupidity for beleiving in them and now more so when she sees the kind of man you truly are. Of course I may be wrong but it IS a possibility nevertheless.

<small>[ November 09, 2004, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Originally posted by Myrta:

In "my world" like you say, if someone asks me to do something that I am not ready to do, that is pressure!

Thanks for clarifying your definition of pressure ....

I apologize for pressuring you by making a request for clarification, if you were not ready to do so! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep

PEPPERBAND__ YOu are just too funny!!
I am sure your husband adores your
sense of humor!

Myrta

BOBPURE-- That could very well be the reason, as TMCM says!! Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt for reasons to do things, "their way"!!!!!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> MYRTA

Bob.... the magic word

POJA

comes to mind

Could this be a POJA opportunity?

Pep

A refresher read if necessary:

POJA

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

POJA is growing in house all the time but a lifetimes habit of working out compromises is hard to break.
I guess we're emerging from a time where NOTHING is easy to enthusiastically agree on though a time where more and more is.

She told me " she WILL get rid but in her own time".

I have no idea why she keeps them. I suspect because she clings to her failing belief that OM was a good'un who would've made good on his promises to her.

TBH now I've chucked my copies they've lpost thei rpower over me.

And Squid has been LOVELY this afternoon. VERY affectionate and made me dinner.

I don't regret it. When/If she bins those letters it will be an important day for me. And she knows it.
Strange that small act was actually quite an important development in my personal path. I can choose not to be hurt by sh1t if I want.

Wow. What an epiphany.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She told me " she WILL get rid but in her own time".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Despite daily and email my wife collected handwritten notes from OM with romantic prose. Very much like a teenager in love she kept these things in a secret compartment among her personal belongings. On D-day the very 1st thing Myrta threw away were the love letters. She didn’t want me to find them at a later date. She kept the presents because I didn’t know about them and because she hates to throw away anything that has intrinsic material value. She also hates to be told what to do. In any event, eventually she threw away everything on her own except a nice leather purse which I suggested she could give to someone else as a Xmas present this year.

We must accept that WWs have attachment to OMs even if they realize OM was a crappy person. For example I once said OM probably had a stroke or heart attack because he was not trying to communicate with my wife. Myrta became pale with the thought of OM dying with a stroke in the hospital. The very 1st time we discussed NC and how it was FOREVER I could see the nostalgic expression in her face.

Do I care? Not really OM is no competition! In fact I believe many women choose OMs that are no competition to the H when they never intend to leave the marriage. In the TOW board they called them "cake eaters" and the OW and OMs hate them.

BTW, if you want to read about the suffering of OWs check out the TOW board.

http://gloryb.com/forum/ubb/ultimatebb.php

If you want to read about cynical women who are out of touch with reality check the board.

<small>[ November 09, 2004, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tummytuck:
<strong> How bad would it be if you just removed them yourself - what's the worst that could happen? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If my spouse just removed something of mine, I'd be pretty darn irritated. If he removed something I carried guilt (and therefore defensivness) about, I'd be even more irritated.

This strikes me as Independent Behavior in the worst way.

Its not the letters that bothered me its the attachment Squid has to them.

If I chucked 'em she's be livid AND she'd still have an attachment to them.She needs to chuck 'em.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> Its not the letters that bothered me its the attachment Squid has to them.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob,

Speaking *only* from my own experience here.

I got rid of *everything* from OM on D-Day. Tossed it all right in front of my H.
2 or 3 CDs, all the emails, a book I'd borrowed.

Kept one .wav file on the PC that H didn't know about.
Why?

As a reminder that I was special and likable.

I got into the EA because I didn't feel safe in my M. I felt we needed a lot of work in the M and whenever I'd bring it up, H would LB all over the place. It was an unsatisfying and unsafe time for me, emotionally.

The .wav file wasn't important because I cared about OM. It wasn't due to any attachment. It was important because my H had run down my self esteem and the .wav file built it back up again.

It took a LONG TIME (about a year) before I was able to relax and feel like my H's feelings for me were genuine and "enough". There was too much hurt between us and I didn't trust the good changes.

I wasn't pining for OM. I wasn't cherishing what we had. I wasn't thinking my H didn't measure up. All of that is the opposite of what I was thinking.

I kept the file to remind myself that I was "okay". That if H reverted to LBs and hurtful ways, I would survive and be okay.

Gotta admit here Pure, you must be a saint to even accept now that your wife wants to keep things from the OM despite all of the F-ing trajedy her affair has caused. I don't get it and I fully acknowledge I never will. Man, I hope you find the "inner peace" you need in this marriage.

Bob

I read all your posts and follow what you are doing, although I don't chime in much. Your path is a good one. First of all, you believe in what you are doing, and have faith in your efforts. That, my friend, is critical.

It would seem your FWW has received your message, as it was pretty cut and dried. I agree with the path you have chosen, and believe the day will come when she'll tell you "it's time".

In another post, I described this process as viewing your FWW as cast in a large block of ice. Your love and care, properly employed, will melt the ice away, and the loving, caring W you knew Pre-A, will emerge.

As the block decreases in size, which it's been doing since OM blew her off and when withdrawal began, the greater the likelihood she'll bring those momentos to you for their final demise. Or she'll just do it privatly, and inform you after the fact. Either way, it's a good thing!

JMHO
SD

Edited to add: I would have had a second set of copies, destroyed one set, as you did, but would have maintained the second set until I was confidant there was no legal need for them. But that's just me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ November 09, 2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

BOBPURE- What Turtlehead says its very significant for you. That could very well be the reason or one of the reasons your wife wants to keep them letters.
What about before DR. Harley? Did everyone that faced infidelity divorce? I dont think so! Not everybody knows about Plans A or B or the Poja agreement, but yet there are many of those unknown people that will work thru their infidelity issues and make it. Not everything has to be read in a book. Affairs and problems in marriages, divorces, have always existed, and with or without the help of Poja method or those plans, people still make it.
Your wife will get rid of those sooner or later. When she feels its the right time for HER. Just because we are WW we dont automatically have to become attached by the hip to the BS and do and agree with everything that happens in the m arriage. Its still two people with different thinking and points of views, and because of that we tend to do things differently. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Why dont you buy the book "Dont sweat the small stuff"! Its about giving too much importance, blowing out of proportion things!

MYRTA

<small>[ November 09, 2004, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> Gotta admit here Pure, you must be a saint to even accept now that your wife wants to keep things from the OM despite all of the F-ing trajedy her affair has caused. I don't get it and I fully acknowledge I never will. Man, I hope you find the "inner peace" you need in this marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LM, you have convinced me that I should righteously kick out my lover, partner and friend of 22 years even though she has made huge strides in recovery and maintaining NC, is bcoming more affectionate by the day, instiages great SF , plans our future together and looks deep into my eyes and says " I love you, I always have, I don;t deserve you, thank you for giving me time and love" because she hasn't binned some love letters that I could pick out of the drawer and chuck if I chose to.

After all you kicked YOURS to the kerb and you're MUCH happier than me right ?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> Gotta admit here Pure, you must be a saint to even accept now that your wife wants to keep things from the OM despite all of the F-ing trajedy her affair has caused. I don't get it and I fully acknowledge I never will. Man, I hope you find the "inner peace" you need in this marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LM, you have convinced me that I should righteously kick out my lover, partner and friend of 22 years even though she has made huge strides in recovery and maintaining NC, is bcoming more affectionate by the day, instiages great SF , plans our future together and looks deep into my eyes and says " I love you, I always have, I don;t deserve you, thank you for giving me time and love" because she hasn't binned some love letters that I could pick out of the drawer and chuck if I chose to.

After all you kicked YOURS to the kerb and you're MUCH happier than me right ?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BP

WOW !!!!!!!!LOL, that make you feel better buddy? I think you are probably displacing some of your fears and anger (or whatever) on me today....thats'ok, I am a big boy and can take it. I didn't try and "convince" you to kick her to the curb. You and I both know this is about more than just a letter that you can "shred" and throw out. BUt that is ok, you are working thru it. I don't know where this all came from. Anyways, congratulation on your recovery. I am happy for you.


P.S. I am in a much better place now that I have kicked my "wife to the curb". I am not personally recovered yet, but I will be...but thanks for asking. Good day to you ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
Your wife will get rid of those sooner or later. When she feels its the right time for HER. Just because we are WW we dont automatically have to become attached by the hip to the BS and do and agree with everything that happens in the m arriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and Bob ... if it hurts your feelings that your W disregards your request that she rid your marriage of infidelity momentos ... well buddy, tough nookies for you!

Shame on you Bob for asking your wife to get rid of affair love letters ~after~ you have forgiven her... You are supposed to swallow her disregard and not require safety for yourself.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Shame on you Bob for asking your wife to get rid of affair love letters ~after~ you have forgiven her... You are supposed to swallow her disregard and not require safety for yourself.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PEPPERBAND---Pepper, do you only know how to talk with tongue in cheek??? Thats your "forte" I can see.
Like you said, Bob has forgivven her, just because she has some letters, is not going to push him to the edge. Pleaze...
It does not matter what you say MrsPep, Bob's wife will get rid of those letters when she is good and ready to do so, not when you say so, according to your POJA,and PLANS A and B.

MYRTA

Myrta

Does POJA frighten you Myrta?

POJA, according to Harley, is a relationship tool that creates and sustains compatable LOVE in the marriage.

How? ....By insuring both partners cherish each other's needs and opinions. By taking the spouse's needs and desires into consideration while not losing site of one's own needs and opinions... negotiating a win-win solution ...and not making unilateral hurtful decisions.

POJA is being generous and loving to your husband or wife.

What's so bad about that?

Pep

I won't speak for Pep, but for ol' 2long, if I didn't have my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I'd probably bite my cheeks a lot more than I do... ...this way, I only bite my tongue, which is probably a good thing for the rest of the world! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Bobbers:

ol' 2long kept a file on his ol' computer at work for the longest time that had the discovery emails in it, "just in case." It 2k me over a year and a half 2 realize that there was no answer 2 "in case what?" for me, so I trashed them. 6 months later, when I found them again on a backup DVD, I copied everything else from that DVD and broke the disk in 2.

In all this time, 34 months now, my W has never offered 2 trash things sent 2 her by the OM. Now, he never sent a lot, and she DID trash the folders of sexually-explicit emails on D-day (because she didn't want me 2 see them), but she still has private email accounts that I don't have access 2. I've asked, and she's refused (though I haven't asked recently). In the end, my not having asked her 2 trash stuff from him is based in part on the knowledge that, if she wanted 2 go underground, she could, and easily. There are so many ways 2 stay in contact, even meet discreetly (even though OM lives 2 states away, his family lives in So. Cal) and I might never know if I couldn't read her body language and had no "sense" when things were wrong.

It's nice 2 have a little feminine in2ition! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

One thing I'd *like* 2 see her do is remove publications from her resume that he was involved in. Most significant of those is a paper by her and him, where I was acknowledged for technical contributions. That makes me sick, but I tend 2 agree with you that it will mean much more 2 me if she decides 2 get rid of those things on her own.

Are they triggers for me these days? Not really. Not much anyway. More a reminder that this 2wit is still out there and for 2th of us 2 remain vigilant 2 protect our M. I don't think my W will resume even the "friendship", but I don't know for certain. At this point, I feel "personally recovered" enough that I can "be married" better than I ever could before now, because I don't obsess over whether OM is still an active threat 2 our M or no. I won't let anyone devastate me like I was devastated on D-day (and many times after that). I'm better "differentiated" than ever before, so I can be my "self in relation" (or not) better than ever.

ramble, ramble....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ol' 2long