dewt and mimi - thank you again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I've got the wear something to catch his eye covered as I did some shopping therapy today! I am having anxiety over this but will take it slow (would love to get him back into our bed.. still not quite sure how to do that) I'm not even sure when he'll be home - Sunday? Monday? Also not sure what his frame of mind will be - seems that when he has just seen whore he isn't to easy to deal w/.. gets pretty distant. But we did have a good week last week in talking about where we were w/ things so hopefully that will drip into this week as well.. guess I sort of have to play by ear but also have a plan in place... i'm getting there thanks to you two. If you have a chance please post for me tomorrow - I may need some re-motivation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

dewt - cream and/or sugar?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong> ...seems that when he has just seen whore he isn't to easy to deal w/.. gets pretty distant..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's his defenses. Not to downplay the pain of the betrayed, but waywards face their own kind of emotional hell. And to be honest, having been in both sets of shoes, the waywards is in many cases worse. The distance is there because he's unhappy with the situation. He loves you and (you may find this hard to believe) does NOT want to hurt you. But he is, and he knows it, and so the next best thing is to try not to face it.

As for your seduction... my advice is to not go with the frillies unless it is your normal thing.

To illustrate...

I love seeing my W dressed up. Frillies and lacies are lovely. BUT the real kicker, the image/moment that hits me like a sledge hammer is when I see her in something simple and usually she's not even noticing that my heart has stopped.

That's the moment you are looking for.

Tricky Husband Seducing Example: Tight jeans and a bra. (like you were in the middle of changing and thought of something you had to tell him)

Basically just be aware. If you are aware, you will know exactly when to git 'im. Also, any comments he makes can be an excellent opportunity for you to up the ante.

You should show your appreciation for any good marital behaviour on his part. And, here's the important part, pay in a currency he values.

And here's the really important part. Whatever you do now that works towards bringing him back... be prepared to keep it up. These are the things that fill his love bank and keep it full.

There'd be little point to winning him back if you both find yourselves unhappy again in few years.

J

Oh, and that would be cream and sugar. Maybe a little Irish whiskey for flavour. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dewt -- gotcha - frillies is definitely not my "thing" -- the jeans/bra scenario made me laugh -- that is a look he likes.. (though none of my jeans are tight anymore -- stupid affair diet!) I will be aware - I think I've missed a couple opportunities this past week. I was thinking more last night about this and really quite honestly I'm at the point where I'm just going to go for broke - and just hope for a positive response, then see what happens. I am prepared to keep this up if we do get back together - I'm going to see a therapist to deal w/ my "issues" and am confident that I'll be able to feel alot more comfortable w/ myself. I have zero desire to be back in this situation in 2 years - that is true motivation. This really was a wake up call in 2 ways - I never realized how negatively he was affected by not having his ENS met and I didn't realize how much I loved him until I was faced w/ the possibility of losing him (now, this certainly doesn't get him off the hook, he has much to do also to get this relationship working again - I just hope he's up for it). Thanks again for your insight - it is much appreciated... now, just need for him to get home -- no clue when that will be...

cream, sugar and irish whiskey it is!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Still Processing:

Please get this important point. PLAN A is all about you. You seem to keep focusing on what your WH needs to do. This is a very critical and important mindset.

Just focus on changing YOURSELF.

Going through a trauma is the most effective cause for change, more effective than psychotherapy according to research. What we have experienced is a major trauma.

Be careful about focusing on your underlying issues at this point. Believe me, I understand all of this. I have my issues. I saw a therapist during this crisis. The best help I had came from STEVE HARLEY. You might consider scheduling a session with him. It is money well-spent.

Focus on developing YOUR PLAN. It has to be composed of more than seducing him. It has to involve meeting all of his ENS.

I found it helpful to put things down on pencil and paper. I even kept notes on the posts that I received from this website.

Keep me posted on whether you want me to help you because it does take a lot of work and energy. I want to hear if you understand some of these important points of PLAN A.

Focus on changing yourself.
Do not expect him to learn or to understand or hear anything that you are trying to do. He is addicted, temporarily insane, in what is called "a fog".
It is normal and expected for this to motivate a change in you.
This is a very slow process and will not work overnignt. It may take months if not years. Is your marriage worth it to you? Mine was.
Your focus on PLAN A does not justify his involvement in an A. However, he is having an A now and you have to do all that YOU can do reclaim your marriage.

mimi - i was actually going to start therapy next week -- I was planning on doing it regardless of what happens w/ the marriage so i figured now was a good a time as any.... no?

Based on conversation w/ my WH since this all began, the only ENS I was not meeting was the SF and affection - he continues to tell me what a great person I am, that I've been the only one to stand by him through his life, that i'm his rock, that i even at times through this crap make him laugh -- he puts so much stock into how he feels about himself based on SF - I do think he has some underlying issues (and he agrees and states he will seek counseling) So, this truly is the only part of our relationship that he had been missing and had a profound effect (obviously) on his behavior. Does this change anything as I move forward? It truly is the SF that is missing and I feel that is what I need to show him i can fulfill before he even makes a baby step towards commiting to fixing us. There has been some progress -- he stated that he is more confused now than he was -- he talked to my brother in law pretty openly for the 1st time in a while (my BIL is on the side of working to fix the marriage). The marriage is very much worth fixing to me. I am ready to do all I can do to reclaim this marriage... seems I'm having trouble grasping Plan A... and, again, the only ENS is the SF/A that is missing....

oh and as far as regaining some sort of physical connection w/ WH - I'm doing it for me as well because, yes, I do have needs for physical contact and really do miss him in that way...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong>Based on conversation w/ my WH since this all began, the only ENS I was not meeting was the SF and affection - he continues to tell me what a great person I am, that I've been the only one to stand by him through his life, that i'm his rock, that i even at times through this crap make him laugh -- he puts so much stock into how he feels about himself based on SF </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See, apparently your H and I were siamese twins separated at birth. And apparently, we married siamese twin sisters who were also separated at birth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As for grasping Plan A, well that's a process unto itself. My understanding of it is that in the end, it's a way of behaving that is designed to not drive the wayward spouse further away. A way of behaving that actually presents an attractive alternative to straying behaviour. In my case, I have to avoid putting pressure on my W... that's the biggest LB and what causes her to run further.

In your case, I think your Plan A should revolve around not letting his current mode of behaviour destroy you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> and also making massive deposits into his lovebank via artfully executed SF and affection. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And please keep in mind. If indeed your H and I are from the same planet, that it's really and truly not about the SF, or even the affection... It's about everything that's behind it. Desirablility. For me (and I suspect for your H as well)the sense of self worth is impacted by how othe people treat me. Friends, work mates, etc... but especially the person who is your spouse. My wife, the person I admire, love and trust most in this world doesn't find me desirable? Gawd, that's an awful feeling. Five years ago, I did just about anything I could to avoid facing that.

-- the jeans/bra scenario made me laugh -- that is a look he likes..

LOL! See, I told ya. Separated at birth. Here's another one... rent a movie for the two of you and wear one of his white dress shirts... nothing else... tell me how that one goes over. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

And if he asks about this... say,- I'm doing it for me as well because, yes, I do have needs for physical contact and really do miss him in that way...

That's the best answer I can think of.

And please keep in mind that all this is just step one. For sure intensive SF and affection are important first aid for your relationship right now, but that's just to get you to where you can get to work on your plan.

Keep in mind there's a reason you weren't jumping his bones every second night. You have ENs too, and making sure that both of you are getting the love you need is the ultimate goal.

J

Wow, Dewt, I think you and my WH were separated at birth -- he told me last week something along the lines of "you know how horrible it feels to think that your wife has no desire for you?" so, ummm, yea - now I get it... the "not letting his behavior destroy me" has been tough - especially the weekends -- I want to call her text message him to find out when he'll be home - today? tomorrow? but i'm afraid to -- how bizarre is that?

He knows he wasn't meeting my ENs either - and when we were at our joing MC session he hit the nail on the head as far as what my needs are... so, he just needs to get to the point where he can commit to fixing the marriage... one thing he has repeated to me and others - is that he can't guarantee that we'll be able to fix it - and, of course, I understand that (though i'm pretty sure we will) and i'm not asking for guarantees right now.. just the opportunity to have both of us work to fix us before we throw it all away -- oh and he was also telling my BIL how good i look... so i've got that going for me...

in my opinion you are still not really getting it. You're still too focused on your WH and not yourself. Also the issue is not just SF. It's ALL OF HIS ENS!!!!

Don't go by what HE SAYS.....

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

OK - well, i guess i don't get it -- i mean, i am taking care of other needs when he lets me - i'm civil to him when i talk to him - we've been able to joke around -- i think you may need to come here and wack me in the back of the head - so, I'm to focus on myself?? which in turn will benefit the marriage? well - myself does need some physical contact... and some affection -- this really does a number on your self esteem... would like to feel wanted again... have felt rejected for so long...

I'm a strong believer in th MB System. That worked for me. I would only be able to counsel you regarding this system and you do not seem to be buying it. I'm sorry.... I Really Wish You Well

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

mimi - help me please to understand -- I am really not doing well today - my WH is w/ OW and won't be home until late tomorrow night -- I see how the MB system has worked and I'm really wanting to try Plan A but I obviously am not grasping it - I've been reading the information on this web site and other people's posts - I do need to focus on ME at this point because focusing on him is giving me nothing but grief. Where do I go from here?

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

Hey don't sweat it. Plan A is not always the easiest thing to 'get'. Have some patience with yourself.

Make up a pot of your favorite tea and settle down to read this: Ark's Awesome Plan A thread

Ark is very cool.

J

Thanks Dewt - I had read Ark's initial post but not the responses which i have started to look at. I think I'm sort of doing Plan A but falling off track every now and again (like this evening when I called him to find out when he'd be home so I could plan what i need to do w/ the dogs and he told me he wouldn't be home until late tomorrow - so i freaked a bit - told him i knew he was w/ OW and he needs to stop shirking his responsibilities at home -- i'm guessing that isn't plan A?) I'm going to read through the rest of the posts and read and re-read Ark's post. One question - do I start cooking dinner for us again? I've stopped doing all that stuff and have been eating cereal for dinner. There is hardly any food in the house... so, is that one thing that could be considered plan A? And no relationship talk too, right? I'm not good at that though last week really was the first time we were able to talk openly about things. So, I should just leave at it that, right? There is nothing else he can say to me until he says he wants to work on the marriage -- so any relationship talk I start is me looking for him to say something he isn't going to say.... OK - I can do that... I think maybe i'm slowly grasping it??? Here's a question for you - I was planning on putting our house on the market so we could have settlement in early February because from where I see this marriage going, it doesn't look good -- we can't afford the house and one of us paying rent -- what do you suggest I do about that? Just slow down the process? We have work we need to do on the house before we list it so do I kind of stall that? I had a realtor here today to take a look at what needs to be done - she is not pressuring at all (she understands the "situation"). I had already told WH that I wanted to sell the house, he later said that maybe we should hold off - that I shouldn't have to leave the house -- but another problem w/ that is that I'm really far away from my support system (mostly friends). Do I just "suck it up" until my time limit for Plan "A" is done?? Why am I so thick skulled? I don't feel like i'm grasping this...

If you are like I was, you are probably feeling crazy given that your WH is with the OW. You are feeling highly emotional. You want to scream, holler, yell, curse, you rightly feel justified in doing this. However, this will get you nowhere.

I am hoping that you want to save your marriage. I had to tell myself that the only way to do it was on my own,using the MB and my trust in GOD. My WH, who was having a fun time with the OW, surely wasn't interested in THE MARRIAGE. It comes down to facing the fact that HE IS GONE RIGHT NOW. If not in body, he surely is gone away from you in spirit. Do you want him back or not? If you do, you need to come up with YOUR OWN PLAN to get him back. At least, if he does not come back, you will be a better person in the long run.

For one thing, STILL, it would be helpful for you to get a tougher skin. Regardless of whether he wants to reconcile or not, wouldn't it be good for you to be tougher. How about your SELF-ESTEEM? Wouldn't it be great to feel better about your sexuality. Do you see how PLAN A is GOOD FOR YOU. In the long run, you might even get to thinking that he will be the loser if he is not with you.

STILL, How do you really feel about MARRIAGE? Maybe that is the underlying problem. Is it important to you? Do you believe in marriage? Do you see your husband as your life partner, your team mate for life? When you said I do, did you make a commitment to yourself that it would be forever? You are giving me an indication that this may not be your viewpoint.

"I was planning on putting our house on the market ..because from where I see this marriage as going it doesn't look good...

This really concerned me for you. First of all, you are making a major decision here without your WH and it sounds like you are already giving up on a lifetime commitment. Marriage is not like trading in a car for a settlement. I don't think you meant it to sound this way. But now is certainly not the time for a realtor and you are not giving me the impression or even your WH the impression that you want to fight for this.

Again, I am asking you how important this is to you? Do you want to work hard and fight or not? Your WH has to believe that you love him enough to fignt for him. I'm not feeling it. I can't want it more for you than you want it for yourself. I just hate to see the OW of the world win out because spouses are handed over to them.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

mimi - I ABSOLUTELY want to save my marriage - I took my vows before God very, very seriously. My husband is my best friend and I married him w/ every intention of growing old w/ him. And I still feel that way, even after all he has done. That is what shocks me the most, I think. I always thought I was the type who wouldn't put up w/ being cheated on - but my response to it when it actually happened to me spoke volumes to me as to how much I LOVE him and DO NOT want to lose him.

It TOTALLY rips me apart when he is with OW. The actions I have taken (having a realtor come in) I've done because I feel like I have to protect myself from him hurting me further. I feel like I need him to know that there is a possibility he could lose me. (and its funny that you said my WH probably has the impression I don't want to fight for this because he told my brother in law last Tuesday, even after all the things i've told him about how much i love him etc and all the tears i've shed.. that he wasn't sure i still wanted the marriage). Also, I've got my friends and sister telling me to get rid of him, he's not worth it, if he can treat you like this how can you still want to work it out... blah blah blah.. and I think my actions are a combination of what my friends think i should do, trying to show him that he may lose me, and loving him/not wanting to lose him. So, ummm, i'm a little twisted here.

thicker skin would be great, self-esteem could use some work. would LOVE to feel better about my sexuality. My Plan A would be to get back to my gym routine that i was doing before all this (i still go but not nearly as much); get back to cooking (i used to love to cook prior to all this but haven't at all since - been eating already prepared stuff and cereal for dinner) and if he wants to join me for dinner, fine, if not, OK; get back to enjoying our dogs and training the puppy (haven't spent much time w/ them - playing w/ them, exercising them, etc...), would like to take a (and don't be alarmed) gun safety course and join an indoor target range (that was something my husband and i used to enjoy together but haven't done for a while -- he always was the one to show me how to clean, load, etc.. but i'd like to learn it myself); and I do have an appointment to see a sex therapist to start dealing w/ my issues. Is this a start?? Do I back off selling the house while Plan "A"ing?

oh and Mimi - do you have any pointers on how to shut off my brain when I know he is w/ OW??

Also - is there something I can say to WH that will kind of set the stage for Plan A? Something that will let him know (w/out really saying the exact words) that I am fighting for us, that i haven't given up and that I'm not pushing for decisions (of him giving up OW) and that I'm tired of how we've been "co-existing" and I just want to get back to some some normalcy while i'm home... or something like that?? or do i, as Nike says, Just Do It!! After the comment he made to my brother in law i feel like i need to remind him that i am fighting for us.

and, sorry, one more thing -- I'm thinking anti-depressants may be a help through this -- just wondering what you're thoughts are on that?? I have an appointment w/ my MD for tomorrow morning.

Still:

HOORAY FOR YOU!!! YOU ARE GETTING IT!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I ABSOLUTELY want to save my marriage </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've got my friends and sister telling me to get rid of him, he's not worth it, if he can treat you like this how can you still want to work it out... blah blah blah.. and I think my actions are a combination of what my friends think i should do, trying to show him that he may lose me, and loving him/not wanting to lose him. So, ummm, i'm a little twisted here.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These two quotes are important. Listen to me, I have been through EXACTLY what you are going through. YOU CANNOT SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE AND LISTEN TO YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS. I have found that those two do not go hand and hand. I listened to the folks on this forum who have been through this. People who have not experienced this have a lot to say about what they would do. They will lead you straignt to divorce court. Until who have walked this dark road, as you well know, you have no idea what it is like.

The MB system is very different than what outsiders would recommend us to do. However, it is a system that works towards recovering marriages. When I would try to explain it to others, they would think I was crazy so I stopped trying to explain it and did what I knew I needed to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The actions I have taken (having a realtor come in) I've done because I feel like I have to protect myself from him hurting .... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's just not time for this yet. However, hold this thought and plan... Let him make the steps to leave if, God forbid, he plans to. You don't want to make it easy for him. YOU WANT YOUR MARRIAGE!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My Plan A would be to get back to my gym routine that i was doing before all this (i still go but not nearly as much); get back to cooking (i used to love to cook prior to all this but haven't at all since - been eating already prepared stuff and cereal for dinner) and if he wants to join me for dinner, fine, if not, OK; get back to enjoying our dogs and training the puppy (haven't spent much time w/ them - playing w/ them, exercising them, etc...), would like to take a (and don't be alarmed) gun safety course and join an indoor target range (that was something my husband and i used to enjoy together but haven't done for a while -- he always was the one to show me how to clean, load, etc.. but i'd like to learn it myself); and I do have an appointment to see a sex therapist to start dealing w/ my issues. Is this a start </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you said you can't get it. THIS IS SUPER!!! All except the gun stuff. Yes, I am concerned about that because through this there may come a time that you might want to shoot him, her, or yourself. I am not kidding!!! During an impulsive moment... You know about Scott Peterson....The woman dentist that ran over her husband at the hotel.... YUK!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">do you have any pointers on how to shut off my brain when I know he is w/ OW??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The antidepressants are part of your answer. Make sure to ask your doc for WELLBUTRIN which is the only antidepressant that does not decrease your sex drive. You don't want that to happen especially in your case. Also, I stayed busy. I had the most immaculate, most well-decorated house in town. It ended up being a great part of MY PLAN A. My FWH loved the tranquility and spotlessness of our home. Plus, I did end up having to sell my house (months later) ; my FWH and I live in a new house together. My house was in such good shape that it sold on the first day that it was on the market.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">is there something I can say to WH that will kind of set the stage for Plan A? Something that will let him know (w/out really saying the exact words) that I am fighting for us, that i haven't given up and that I'm not pushing for decisions (of him giving up OW) and that I'm tired of how we've been "co-existing" and I just want to get back to some some normalcy while i'm home... or something like that?? or do i, as Nike says, Just Do It!! After the comment he made to my brother in law i feel like i need to remind him that i am fighting for us. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is an important concept for you to understand. You are getting it, STILL...
JUST DO IT!!!! Maybe you should repeat this over and over to yourself. TALKING TO HIM IS WORTHLESS AND USELESS!!!! This is another important point. He doesn't want your PLAN A to work. He is addicted. His mind is foggy. He does not have the capacity to understand anything that you have to say. He is temporarily insane. He will even try to veer you off of your PLAN A!! You want YOUR MARRIAGE!
so you will remain focused on doing YOUR PLAN.

Your first assignment is simply sleeping in the bed with him tonignt. Don't expect anything to happen. Don't plan on saying anything to help him understand this. Don't expect your friends or sister to understand this. JUST DO IT!!!