Hey all -- I'm back... WH just left... ummmm.... I really had only been Plan Aing for 2 days when he came to the decision he wanted to work on us - now if he sticks to that remains to be seen... I saw his flight info - is booked on the 6:00 am flight - will be home by 9:30 a.m. -- i told him before he left that I love him and I really don't know what else i can do but wait for his return -- once again... like so many other weekends -- this really isn't anything new for me - except this time - my hopes have really been raised... I have no choice at the moment but to ride this out... my husband is a pretty stubborn man when he wants to be -- there was NO WAY I was talking him out of it... I'll just be saying lots of prayers tonight that he sticks to what he told me he was going to stick to...

I've been going through this for the last 7 weeks -- maybe I'm an idiot for hanging on to the hope that this "trip" is what he says it is.. but, right now, that is all I can do.

I understand exactly where you are coming from and what you are saying.

Stay in touch. I'll be looking to hear how it's going.

Thank you mimi -- say a prayer or two or three or four for me tonight...

He called me from the airport while waiting for his flight, talked to him for about 1/2 hour or so -- i again re-iterated my feelings for him and the fears i have... he really seems to be back to not committing either way but says he made a decision to work on the marriage and that remains to be the case... i really think this is going to be the longest 12 hours of my life... i re-newed my ambien prescription and am going to go pick that up -- i think i'll take 3 or 4??? (no, i won't!)

I do not believe your H is cake eating.

I think that what he told you is his own fogged up version of the truth- that he does want to work on your marriage (this could fluctuate wildly) and that he's going for a sense of closure. He doesn't want to just brutally dump her, basically... he's trying to smooth it over. That's my take.

I do not think this warrants even a glance at Plan B. If you manage to keep a solid Plan A going and his behaviour continues... well then, re-assess. Harley suggests setting a time limit. Among other things, it helps you keep your perspective.

My official prediction is that if you do a good Plan A and focus on meeting his needs, you will have a couple of weeks of really erratic behaviour but things will smooth over. But your time limit should be considerably longer. 2-3 months, say.

You go easy on the relationship talks. Let him broach the subject for the next while and listen to him when he talks. Two reasons: Firstly, you will know he's in a receptive state of mind. Secondly, he'll tell you all you need to know to help him find his way back to you. This sucks, but remember, your time will come. Right now, though, we are in 'first aid' mode.

J

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong> i again re-iterated my feelings for him and the fears i have... he really seems to be back to not committing either way </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stop re-iterating things. He knows. He hasn't forgotton. All you are doing is pushing him up against a wall, emotionally, and he will react by pulling away.

I know it's tough. For now, practice 'letting things go'.

J

Thanks dewt -- your post will possibly allow me to sleep tonight -- he just called me... has landed and about to see OW - i asked him to call me to let me know he landed OK... he told me he loved me... i said it back... so, we shall see... i pray he really gets on that 6:50 am flight.... will keep you all posted... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

dewt, mimi -- HELP -- my fear came true - i called the airline, he did not get on the 6:50 flight this morning... I can't get in touch w/ him - his cell phone is off -- i've left him 2 messages -- i'm freaking out... not doing well at all.... how do i handle this? why can't i muster up the anger to just throw all his crap onto the front lawn?? How can he tell me he wants to work on us and tell me he loves me after he lands and right before he sees OW?? How can we have an amazing night together just 24 hours ago and he can run off and do this to me??? what am i supposed to do now??? i'm hoping he'll be home today at some point -- i saw what he left w/ and he has nothing w/ him that would allow him to stay much longer and will definitely be home tomorrow so he can work monday... what do i do??? after having my hopes raised SO much Thursday night and seeing the possibility of "us" I cannot give up yet... am i a complete glutton for punishment???

ummm - OK - I just talked to him -- he told me he just can't work on us... he thought he could... shocking... i KNEW this would happen when he saw her... so I freaked out at him -- finally told him that he needs to look at himself in all this and figure out how he can behave like this and stop looking at other things and people to fill the emptiness inside of him

that he is going to continue floating through his life w/ no focus, no direction -- that he needs to stop thinking that it is outside reasons that he behaves like he behaves -- that he has a huge hole in him that he needs to deal w/... that he had a crappy childhood w/ an abusive and alcholic father -- that stuff has a huge effect on you and that is something you never dealt w/ --- that i hoped that we'd be able to co-exist in some manner (either actively reconciling or me just Plan Aing) while he tries to figure himself out -- that its my job to be the one that stands by him while he goes through all that.... he is so screwed up in his head and he CAN'T see it... and i've never been that blunt w/ him on that thinking that he needs to figure that out for himself...

so, i say, fine - get your butt home - we're selling the house, we need to put it on the market the first week of december... you need to get here so we can get it ready... i'll be home tomorrow he says... so i continue on my rant saying that he's going to wake up one day and realize what he's lost and is going to totally regret it... that he is throwing away the best thing he has in his life - the one person who stood by and loved him no matter what - that his relationship w/ the current whore is complete fantasy - it isn't real life! what happens when they hit the day to day crap - taking out the garbage, etc... it ain't going to feel like it feels now w/ all the sneaking around and excitement.... holy crap... i cannot believe this...

so then - i again tell him he needs to get his butt home so we can figure out the "grown up" portion of this -- the finances, etc... he says, i need to to some thinking, some digesting... i say how are you going to do that w/ her around? you can't! you need to be alone to figure yourself out... he says he'll call me later...

HELP - i say again... i know he is still foggy but come on!!! he is so weak and unable to acknowledge that -- i don't know what else i can do... i got pretty forceful w/ him on the phone and once again he back pedals and says he needs to digest all the stuff i said to him... what do i do when he gets home?? do i try to proceed w/ plan A? encourage him to get counseling and that i don't want to make any final decisions re: divorce etc until he at least goes to some individual counseling to examine himself??? or do i go ahead w/ getting ourselves separated? does he need this wake up call or is it too soon?? I still really love him even w/ all he has put me through and especially after the night we had thursday night am not ready to give up on us.... need some help here!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

First thing you need to do is sit down and breathe....you've probably paced your house about 27 times by now....

BREATHE.......

Yuo knew this outcome was a possibility....

you can't muster the anger to throw his stuff out for the same reason that I could not do it 5 years ago to Dewt.....

there is still love and desperate hope that you can indeed save this marriage...in your heart...

He can do this .... tell you he wants to work on you... and tell you he loves you and then go off to OW because he is not himself...because his fog is thick and he feels like he is twisting in the wind...no matter what direction he takes, he probably feels like he is going to hurt someone...

He can do this because he is confused and the part of him that is your loving husband has been abducted by aliens.....

He is, right now, not even close to being a reasonable facsimile....

you've left 2 messages already, and there is no doubt in my mind that he knows you are freaking out....so is OW....freaking out, I mean....of course, at the prospect of losing him, she is probably pulling every trick in the book, and he may feel like he is trapped between a rock and a hard place....

patiently wait, fill in the hours of your day...do not leave anymore messages for him....

At some point, every BS asks the eternal question..."Am I a glutton for punishment?"...

NOPE !!...you just love your H and right now, YOU have to have enough hope, love, patience and mariiage buildign skills for the both of you...

think of it right now that she is giving him the hardest time in trying to get rid of her...

Keep Breathing......

and I'll go wake up Dewt and tell him to come talk to you...

there was a night 5 years ago where he was HOURS late.....he went to say "goodbye" to his OW...I paced the house, crying, sure that our 3 year old and I had been abandoned..positive he was with her....well, he was, but we had not been abandoned....just another page in the chapter of infidelity in our lives....

This waffling back and forth between you and the OW is normal, it is almost to be expected...this is part and parcel of this whole infidelity extravaganza!!...


Keep your hopes up...keep them positive...when he does things that rip out your heart, know that it is his evil twin...know that staying calm will be to your advantage...always show him a calm you if possible....

ahh....Dewt is awake, coffee in hand....

Still processing, hang in there....this is not the end of your world even if it feels like it...this is where you get to show him beautiful plan A-ing when he gets home...

I personally think your attitude should be one of commisseration...come across as "understanding" of how difficult this must be...how you feel badly for him that she got him into a tug-o-war...do not give in to the panic and mind-racing fear...

be cool
be calm
breathe

no accusations, no screaming banshee...

let's calmly find out what happened to the poor fog-bound guy and then lets go from there...

many hugs to you...BREATHE...

Dylan

thanks - but did you see my 3rd post?? That whole calm thing is out the window... plese advise...

sp, the first thing you need to do is calm down. Don't talk to him again until you have calmed down and can speak to him without lovebusting. See, when you lovebust him, it gives him justification to continue his affair because he is too busy defending himself from you. This also makes the OW look very attractive. When you are loving and kind, it makes you look like an attractive option.

I would drop all talk of selling the house and divorce. Making threats like that will only push him away, right into the arms of the OW. I would make it clear that if there is going to be any separation, it will have to be on his part.

I know this is very traumatic for you, but this is far from the end. There is a very strong possibility that you can come through this with a strong marriage, so don't give up hope.

Mimi is a master at dealing with a foggy WS, so wait until she gets here and she can help you develop some good talking points with him.

'Mornin. Ya, we saw your post once Dylan's went up. But now I have the computer... I have the power! Bwah-ha-ha-ha....

Anyway, a few posts up, I said, "My official prediction is that if you do a good Plan A and focus on meeting his needs, you will have a couple of weeks of really erratic behaviour but things will smooth over. But your time limit should be considerably longer. 2-3 months, say.

This is what I was talking about. Please understand (without judgement) that right now his mind and heart are in complete turmoil. On one hand, he loves you and wants things to work out. On the other hand, he's got his fears and his fog. And these are incredibly powerful forces.

You can do nothing about his fog. All that stuff you told him when you talked to him this morning... it's pointless. And counterproductive. Even if it's all true, it will not influence his thinking.

You can do something about his fears. And that's part of what Plan A is all about. The idea is that as you remove his fears and help set up an attractive atmosphere for him, he will defog himself. And as far as I know, that is the only way to get someone out of the fog.

No more lectures. No more analyzing him. Please understand that even if you hit the nail right on the head, it will not sink into the wood. Dang that was a good analogy. (dewt pats self on back)

The point is that right now, only he can change his thinking. Your job is to give him reasons to change his thinking. And I'm not talking about verbal reasons. I'm talking about making yourself so attractive to him that he can no longer justify his behaviours by saying that he's unhappy with you. Please do not underestimate the power of this.

Advice on what do do when he gets home...

Firstly, make sure you look your best. Be fresh and clean and dressed comfortably in something you know he's gonna like.

Give him a kiss and let him know you are glad he's home. Apologize (yes, that's what I said) to him for flying off the handle at him over the phone, and tell him that you understand how difficult this situation is that he's facing.

Please resist the urge to lecture or freak out. It's what he's expecting. It's what he's fearing. Here's where you start to really work on Plan A.

And believe me, it's work.

NO disrespectful judgements.
NO angry outbursts
NO pressure
NO lovebusting

You'll want to do all these things. You have EVERY RIGHT to do all these things. BUT, do you want to be 'right' or do you want to be married? Er... maybe you should not answer that one right at this very moment...

Ok, so we've gone over what you should NOT do...

What should you do?

Be sweet. Be understanding. Look good. Be attractive. Be compassionate. Be patient. Be close with him. If you can 'reclaim' him, do it.

Here's an idea...

Be warned... it's way out there...

When he gets home, hug him. Apologize for freaking out. Tell him you understand he's facing a tough time.

Then without another word, start taking off his shirt.

If he asks, tell him simply and straight out that you are staking your claim on him. Then, give him the BEST sexual experience of his life.

You want power over his fog? From my perspective, this is the most powerful tool at your command.

If there's any talk... ANY talk... make sure it comes from him. DO NOT get dragged into it. DO NOT try to tell him how wrong he is. Say things like, "I understand," and "I'm sorry that you're in this position,"... stuff like that. LISTEN to him. I know I sound like a broken record, but I'll say it again. He is INCAPABLE of absorbing any arguments or points you make. But sharing his feelings with you will be an excersise in trust and sharing with you... and that is VERY powerful. Especially after being intimate.

Ok. I gotta go.

Patience.

J

stillprocessing
Know where you are at babe right there now myself.
Try and be calm I find if I slow everthing down ie talk slowly and in a low voice I get much more attention that is he has to consentrate to listen. The more we rant and rave the more we are playing into OW hands dont give her any excuse to console your WH for his misery after you have a go at him.
Read the literature that S Harley has written about infidelity again and again it helps. Read and plan your Plan A. I know my WH will spend the day with OW but I try to pretend that they are argueing all the time about the situation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Be strong put the day into small timescales of tasks to start and finish.
Thinking of you.

Dewt - wow - that is going to be very very hard... I feel like I'm losing myself each minute... what he did seems so cruel - I know you said "erratic behavior" would be occuring - geez - reclaim him??? wow, that seems impossible considering the circumustances... I just don't understand his brain and I guess thats the problem - I keep trying to understand his brain... what will he think if he walks in here and I apologize?? Won't he think I've completely lost my mind?? He won't want to intimate w/ me -- he knows what he did to me after Thursday night so he won't do it again -- I feel so low now... I honestly do not know what to do next...

dyinghere - how long have you been Plan Aing while husband was seeing OW? Is he as blatant about it as my husband is?? I really don't kow how much longer I can do this.

UPDATE - since he is so good at delivering bad news over the phone -- husband just informed me that he is leaving the house -- he will be home sunday to pick up some things and will be leaving again sunday night for the week, coming back the sunday after thanksgiving so he can be around to get the house together... he can not be in the house w/ things as they are - he continues to hurt me... its pretty obvious that he's done w/ us... i'm devestated but pretty numb at the moment -- I told him I wanted some face time w/ him on Sunday before he went -- not sure why - don't really have much to say to him... I'm just so hurt and upset right now. Sitting here, alone, in disbelief. Help.

UPDATE - since he is so good at delivering bad news over the phone -- husband just informed me that he is leaving the house -- he will be home sunday to pick up some things and will be leaving again sunday night for the week, coming back the sunday after thanksgiving so he can be around to get the house together to sell... he can not be in the house w/ things as they are - he continues to hurt me... its pretty obvious that he's done w/ us... i'm devestated but pretty numb at the moment -- I told him I wanted some face time w/ him on Sunday before he went -- not sure why - don't really have much to say to him... I'm just so hurt and upset right now. Sitting here, alone, in disbelief. Help.

Take a deep breath. You are in for the long haul, right? Plan A is great when you need to show your H that you can change. Seize this chance to show him you are capable of change and that your life together can be happy. Don't tell him, show him.

Do as Dewt says--apologize for going off the handle. Explain how much his behavior hurts you. Acknowledge again what your responsiblity has been in the downfall of your M. Explain what you will do to make ammends for that. But you really must set some boundaries about continued contact. it is not acceptable to you, right? If he feels he must go, then you graciously let him do so. This will help things along in most cases--reality hits and it ain't easy, believe me. WS's don't like this time when they have to live in the real world of the consequences of their actions.

Do not be angry. Be mysteriously calm. You can say that you love him and want the M to work, but NOT with another woman in the picture. Show him what you are capable of. He knows in his heart, or he wouldn't have married you. This all gets obscured as they are in pain abou the M and all the excitement of the A.

I wish I would have let my H go sooner. I usually let him know that I wanted him back and many times I seemed desperate. I had a 6 month old D soI kind of was desperate, but once I stopped showing it and let him live in REALITY with OW as his only person meeting his needs, things started to move forward the fog began to dissipate.

Hang in there. It isn't over by a looooong shot. OW has just done her best and her ammo is running short, believe me. YOU have just begun!

Anne - I really had planned on being in for the long haul. I just don't know where to go from here. So, Sunday I tell him what? That i still love him and want the marriage to work but... what? I'm at a loss -- I was thinking of just writing a letter to him, letting him read it in front of me and taking it back from him (I have this fear that OW would get her hands on it and they'd have a nice laugh over it) Not sure what to put in the letter even... this is all so new to me still - its been 2 months since i found out... and like most women never ever thought he could do this to me... I'm still so dazed and confused by it all and he seems cold and heartless about it...

I didn't think I could feel as stunned as I felt when I first found out about his affair but here I am... stunned by it all.

Ack. This sucks so bad.

{{{{Stillprocessing}}}}

You are probably gonna think I'm nuts, but I say stay your course. Use this time to study up on MB principles. Particularily Plan A.

Why do I still have hope for you two? Because after a 6 month separation, my W and I are living together again. We still have a WHOLE LOTTA work to do, but she's back and her OP is out of the picture. It's slow going, but this is the fight worth fighting.

You keep being patient. He is going to be erratic, that's a given.

I love what Anne said, "Do not be angry. Be mysteriously calm. You can say that you love him and want the M to work, but NOT with another woman in the picture. Show him what you are capable of. He knows in his heart, or he wouldn't have married you. This all gets obscured as they are in pain abou the M and all the excitement of the A." Especially the 'mysteriously calm' bit.


Patience.

Patience.

Patience.

Remember. The affair may only be 2 months old, but it took years for your relationship to degrade to the point that something like this became possible. It's gonna take time to put things right.

J

I can't stay the course - he's leaving - I'm sitting here sobbing - the tears finally came. What should i say to him on Sunday to set the stage for what is looking like plan b? when i just talked to him on the phone he could've cared less about what is happening...