Sunday? Be mysteriously calm.

Plan A

Plan A

Plan A

If he does actually go through with this leaving thing... (which remains to be seen) then we can talk about thinking about Plan B.

Mysteriously calm. Pleasant. Dress subtly sexy. Don't tell him what he'll be missing, show him.

J

I can not emphasize enough staying calm--at least in his presence. Have you heard of the see saw effect? One person acts overly emotional and the other is then able to be very, very calm and UN emotional. Take over the other side of the see saw. YOU be calm and unemotional, seeming not to care that he is leaving. This will upset him, I promise you. He may not show it, but it will bug him.

I am speaking from experience. I did have to go to Plan B. Did you read ALL about Plan A and are you doing it? Even if he is not home that is NOT Plan B. Plan B is for when your love for him is waning and a decently executed Plan A has not ended the A.

Whenever I showed my H how much I wanted the R with him while he was still with her it gave him the security to know he could keep doing what he was doing and I would still be there. Once that stopped, he started seeing reality. I got very busy doing things that had nothing to do with him and didn't let him have info about it. Bugged him terrifically! He decided I must be dating! Yeah, right! But that was his conclusion because it was such different behavior than before.

Calm, cool, collected. Unemotionally STATE to him: you love him, you want the M, you are sorry for the things you did to bring the M to a state that he was able to commit adultery. You know he is a good person and must have been in pain to get to this point. You are sorry that is where the two of you are now, but you want to fix the problems and make an even better marriage going forward. BUT, you need him on board. He must break off ALL contact with OW and commit to counseling to heal and work on the M. Neither of you took M vows that included another person in them and you deserve no less, as does he. If he does not want to do this, help him pack, wish him well and tell him the door is open to come back under the circumstances above. THAT is what you say tomorrow. CALMLY. RATIONALLY. MYSTERIOUSLY CALM. He WILL wonder. He will probably still leave, but he must come back only if he is willing to the above. Trust me, I let my H back too many times without a plan to keep NC and it hurt much, much more that way.

Hang in there, you CAN do this. Fall apart the minute he walks out the door--come on here and post, you can email me if you want annefeit@aol.com. You CAN do this. Courage.

I don't want to say I told you so. She got to him when they had their private phone chat. The only answer will be total abstinence from her and that will take him awhile.

I don't have much time tonight but definitely believe that it is NOT ALL OVER.

I TOLD YOU TO STOP THAT DIVORCE STUFF!! SHE THINKS SHE HAS WON BUT SHE HAS NOT!

He just got a drug fix. Rememer the ADDICTION!!

I won't have much time this weekend but I will be glad to help you all that I Can.

For now, apologize. Continue to do PLAN A. He is cake-eating.

HIS PATTERN IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS MY FWH AND WE ARE HAPPILY RECONCILED!!!

It will take awhile for this to end.

REMEMBER TIME AND PATIENCE!!!!

mimi - apologize and do Plan A??? I do need your help here - he will be leaving tomorrow again for the week - I was planning on telling him when he gets home that i still love him... and not sure what else... I wish that Thursday never happened (the lame "I want to make this work" crap)... I was all set on Plan A - i just feel like i've been re-crushed... do i disuade him from leaving at night when he returns next week? I'm so not knowing which way to go here... not sell the house? I feel like i live in the middle of nowhere.. i'm not close to family for friends - I'm alone every weekend w/ occasional outings to see people but it takes over an hour to get anywhere... that makes me feel more lonely and like i don't have much of a support system... which makes me feel worse.. i feel quite isolated out here -- i just don't know - i'm feeling rather drained emotionally today - i need to get some rest - i think i'll actually be able to sleep tonight...

anne - thanks - you will more than likely be hearing from me -- i can do "calm" that is what i've been pretty good at (except for my conversation w/ him this a.m. - he gets so evil when he is w/ OW - it drives me nuts) I still am not sure what to do tomorrow - will tell him i love him but not sure where to go after that... I'm just so tired right now, i need to rest... i'll re-read stuff here tomorrow and see if i have any clarity... thanks so much.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong> do i disuade him from leaving at night when he returns next week? I'm so not knowing which way to go here... not sell the house?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please understand that it's nearly impossible to dissuade/persuade/coerce or otherwise talk someone into saving a marriage. What you want to do (Plan A) is become attractive to him in such a way that he talks himself into working on the marriage. Make sense?

Also, DO NOT make any major decisions while you are feeling this way. Selling house, filing divorce, for example.

He is evil while he is there because it's the only way he can be while doing this insane stuff. It promotes antagonism and conflict between you two which makes what he's doing sooooo much easier. That's why we keep saying "be calm".

J

I posted something earlier and in re-reading I've come to take exception to it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dewt:
<strong>Dress subtly sexy. Don't tell him what he'll be missing, show him.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would like to re-phrase it completely.

Look good. I found, at the beginning of my own hellish experience that taking good physical care of myself made a HUGE difference.

Getting enough sleep, eating properly (I'd lost almost 20 pounds during the A), I always made sure I smelled good and I even went 'shopping' once in a while. Please note that 'shopping' for clothes is an extremely uncharacteristic behaviour for me. But it helped me start to feel good about myself.

Don't make this easy on him. But do it this way...

Be attractive.

Look good. Smell good. Be pleasant, self assured. Don't do things that are going to drive him away (read up on LoveBusters).

...

Be like the almighty duck.

Cool and calm on the surface...

Paddling like heII underneith.

J

Dewt - that is the plan -- I know he will be leaving tonight for the week w/ the intention of only returning to get the house ready to put on the market... I really don't think we should sell yet.

I'm going to be very calm - I'm not sure what I'm going to say to him yet but I will be calm and will not lovebust... I would like for him to re-think the house selling... I would like to tell him that he needs to spend some time alone to look at himself but I'm guessing that really is a waste of time...

this will be the first thanksgiving i haven't spent w/ him in like 9 years... i'm really dreading it. I've finally talked to my brother who has gone through this himself (his 1st wife dcheated on him and wouldn't end the affair - he battled to save them but she had no interest) He will be good support for me as he understands how i feel and how i can still want to save the marriage even after what he's done.

I dunno Dewt, I feel like I've gone backwards -- I feel like i'm starting from day one after finding out... I wish I could erase my feelings from thursday - I've only just wanted to love him and its being denied. Its so hard. He's so confused and foggy - I can't believe he can't see what he's throwing away... maybe he caught a glimpse of his on Thursday but its gone again... Its like I don't know him anymore... the cruelty of it all still amazes me.

I'm sorry - I just feel so low right now. My brother will be spending the dya w/ me so that will help. I need to get back on my feet.

I'm here but don't have much time to post.

Do not plan on giving up!

I will be back with you by the end of the day.

Thanks mimi -- I will check by later -- I need some words of wisdom/support.

Having your brother with you will be the best help of all.

One thing I did learn from all of this: the more I resisted what was happening, tried to deny it to myself, questioned why, etc. the harder it was for me. I didn't concentrate on doing the Plans or taking care of myself. I wasted a lot of time in an emotionally wrenching state that did NOT help me. This is a very difficult thing to do, but the sooner you are able to ACCEPT that you have a H who is cheating, that you want to stay married, the better. You can also accept to yourself that your H is messed up and in the fog. You both need you to "be the lighthouse" as I believe another poster said. This IS happening. You may never get the WHY, so don't spin your wheels agonizing, get busy on your plan.

When you are down, pray, meditate, call your brother, post here. Allow yourself some time to grieve and accept, but then gather your strength, regroup and get on with your Plan.

Easy to say, hard to do, I know, but it will help. Take care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong>I feel like I've gone backwards -- I feel like i'm starting from day one after finding out... I wish I could erase my feelings from thursday - I've only just wanted to love him and its being denied. Its so hard. He's so confused and foggy - I can't believe he can't see what he's throwing away... maybe he caught a glimpse of his on Thursday but its gone again... Its like I don't know him anymore... the cruelty of it all still amazes me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know. Most of us here know all too well what you you're talking about.

The good news is you are going to get through this. And it's possible to actually come out the other end of this horrid machine in better shape than you went in.

J

When I posted to you on Friday and said I understood, it's because I knew you wouldn't believe me until you lived through it.

I want you to really buy that an A is an addiction. THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT HE COULD RESUME ANY CONTACT WITH HER AND THEN RECOMMIT TO YOU. The only resolution will come when he has ABSOULUTELY NO CONTACT for at least 3 to 6 months.

I did not want to believe this. I thought all of this nightmare would magically go away but it will not. As much as I really believe that my FWH is in love with me now, I know as sure as I am sitting here that if he resumes any contact with the OW the A has a high likelihood of starting again.

Your WH is a cake-eater. He wants both of you. He is ADDICTED TO THE DRUG SHE OFFERS.
She is meeting some special EN of his. I don't think it is SEX. He has enjoyed SEX with you. Review the ENs in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS. What is she supplying?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Calm, cool, collected. Unemotionally STATE to him: you love him, you want the M, you are sorry for the things you did to bring the M to a state that he was able to commit adultery. You know he is a good person and must have been in pain to get to this point. You are sorry that is where the two of you are now, but you want to fix the problems and make an even better marriage going forward. BUT, you need him on board. He must break off ALL contact with OW and commit to counseling to heal and work on the M. Neither of you took M vows that included another person in them and you deserve no less, as does he. If he does not want to do this, help him pack, wish him well and tell him the door is open to come back under the circumstances above. THAT is what you say tomorrow. CALMLY. RATIONALLY. MYSTERIOUSLY CALM. He WILL wonder. He will probably still leave, but he must come back only if he is willing to the above. Trust me, I let my H back too many times without a plan to keep NC and it hurt much, much more that way.

Hang in there, you CAN do this. Fall apart the minute he walks out the door--come on here and post, you can email me if you want annefeit@aol.com. You CAN do this. Courage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I couldn't have said this any better. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED TO DO AND SAY. That is, only if he plans on leaving. Do not help him with the process of leaving. Let him work it out on his own. DO NOT SELL THE HOUSE YET. You need to stay in the house and GO SEE A LAWYER ASAP TOMORROW. YOU PROBABLY ARE ENTITLED FOR HIM TO HAVE TO PAY THE MORTGAGE IF HE LEAVES AND ABANDONS YOU. Let him abandon you and suffer the consequences of his actions. Don't enable him in his wrongdoing. If he decides to leave, it is to continue with an A which is wrong and not to be condoned or accepted by you. YOU WANT HIM TO STAY AND TO WORK ON THE MARRIAGE.


No begging, no pleading.

I've got to go again. Will be back later.

Hi mimi -- well, he came home, extremely tearful - my brother was actually here when he came home (he had told me he wouldn't be here until this evening - and he NEVER comes home before he says.. its usually a day later)... he and my brother talked civilly - my brother said some things to him as most brothers would to a man hurting their sister... than he left the room - WH continued to sob - tell me how sorry he was that he told me he could try to fix us - that he really wanted to do the right thing but in his heart knew he didn't have it in him -- continued to say the same stuff he's been saying - sobbing the entire time -- that he knows he'll wake up and realize how much he's screwed up.. blah blah blah -- i stayed very calm, did not cry at all - kept my answers short, didn't offer much just waited in the silent moments for him to start talking again -- i didn't really say what you suggested - i just don't know - after the events of this past week i just don't know how many more times i can tell him i love him and want this marriage - he knows that - that is why he keeps sobbing - he knows how much he's hurt me but can't do anything about it...

so he said he couldn't be here.. he has to leave -- i say ok - he sobs, packs, sobs, packs, sobs, i leave him alone.. he's packed up (he's leaving for the week, he will be back on Sunday to stick around for a bit to help get the house ready to sell - thats the story at the moment anyway) i say ok - see ya', have a nice thanksgiving -- he sobs, says you have a nice thanksgiving too i'll talk to you soon... then off he goes... to drive 8 hours to OW house... wacko.

i'm feeling ok actually - was glad I stayed calm - i really just think he is such a lost soul right now that he can't see or hear anything clearly at all... I'm just going to take things a day at a time this week and see what happens when/if he comes home.... I guess?

so, mimi, i'm not sure where i am here... he hasn't abandoned me yet but is just going away for the week as he's done in the past (took 2 of our dogs w/ him this time which makes my life a little less hectic - i have our 2 others here w/ me). Any advice? I know this isn't plan A - I don't know what this is... aside from a big mess. There was no way i could stop him from leaving - what is your take on all this?

<small>[ November 21, 2004, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

SP,
You didn't ask for my opinion--maybe I am too harsh? It sounds like you did great. Your gut feeling is probably right--he knows you love him and want the M and he knows he is hurting you, but the addiction is leading him to do some very stupid and hurtful things.

My suggestions are these: do NOT call him or contact him for anything this week. Try to not be available if he tries to contact you. Do things that nurture you and make you feel terrific. Pray, meditate, read about A's and the Harley plans. Take breaks from thinking about the A and your M. Take good, very good, care of yourself. Let the process play out. Work on that acceptance thing--from your last post it seems like you are doing well here. YOu could not prevent him from leaving. You only control yourself, and it sounds like you really did that well. Kudos. It ain't over by a long shot!

Hi Anne -- thanks for your response... I will try to have no contact w/ him this week and focus back on taking care of me. Hopefully it will be a few days without any additional drama so maybe I'll get a little bit of a break from that. Though he is famous for calling me and dropping some additional bomb... I can't imagine what he could come up with after all the other crap.

I'm trying to hang in - its weird being here with only 2 dogs - very quiet and much calmer... i'm trying to occupy myself when i'm here -- its easier during the week with work and all -- thanksgiving will be tough - going to my dad's and have to break the news to him - he doesn't handle things well so i was holding off until the last possible moment (w/ the hopes that i wouldn't have to tell him) and we've arrived at that moment.

If you have any other words of wisdom please send them my way -- i know i've got a tough road ahead, i've still got that hope that i need to get through each day - that he'll see what he's doing before its too late -- but right now i feel like i can't continue on this destructive path w/ him. He has no interest in not contacting OW and will continue to do so while he is in this house w/ me... I just don't see how i can proceed w/ plan A.

STILL:

You are doing great! It seems like the PLAN is really working for YOU. You seem a lot calmer and level-headed.

Your WW sounds a lot like mine was. That's why I have been trying to give you advice based on my experience. I really struggled for MONTHS with these same scenes. My FWH would leave every weekend to be with the OW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.. he's packed up (he's leaving for the week, he will be back on Sunday to stick around for a bit to help get the house ready to sell - thats the story at the moment anyway) i say ok - see ya', have a nice thanksgiving -- he sobs, says you have a nice thanksgiving too i'll talk to you soon... then off he goes... to drive 8 hours to OW house... wacko.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds like to me that he is taking a long weekend. He's decided that he is not finished with her yet. He's too addicted. Let me know if you are understanding this addiction. He know that he is out-of-control with this but he can't help himself. You represent sanity to him. With her, he is living in a fantasy world, he remains on a high and he thinks that he cannot live without her.

I would predict that you need to do PLAN B. However, right now, YOU ARE IN PLAN A.
You are not separated from him yet. Please try to stop entertaining that "selling the house " discussion with him. He does not really want to sell the house. He wants to go away with her and think about you sitting there waiting for him. That's the thought-process of the cake-eater.

Here's the strategy. Stay in PLAN A as long as possible. You are wanting to build a picture for him to remember you by when you do your PLAN B. When you go into PLAN B, THEN SELL THE HOUSE IF YOU WANT TO. This will make him fearful of losing you. However, now is not the time. In my opinion, you haven't done PLAN A long enough and I don't believe that you are exactly sure what ENs she is fulfilling.

I would spend this week continuing to work on devising PLAN A. Count on him wanting to come home again and say he is sorry blah,blah,blah.. I think he is still on the fence. He just had to find a way to get away with her this week since its Thanksgiving.

It's hard for these As to end. It will end...

Do PLAN A. Do talk to him if he calls. Sound uplifted, not bothered... calm, cool and collected..no relationship talk...say "we'll talk when you come HOME.

What do you think? Can you do this? Are you ready for a long, hard fight. This is far from over as the others have said. In the end, you will learn to love yourself even more...

<small>[ November 21, 2004, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Hi Mimi - seems we were posting at the same time... I will read up on ENs, I have 2 books that talk about ENs... I will do that this week and see if I can come up with something else.

I sort of understand the addictive nature of the A - he has referred to it that way himself. He hasn't gotten enough of her, he can't help himself -- he's even referred to it as destructive behavior, that last hit of cocaine he knows he shouldn't do but can't help himself. He's told me so many times that I am his rock, the one person who has stood by him in his life no matter what.

I really at this point don't know if he's on the fence or not. He just keeps saying he can't keep hurting me, shouldn't be near me because all he does is hurt me. Mimi - I'm just so torn. I still have minor hope that he'll snap out of it but I know him - he is so stubborn and while he states he knows he has issues of his own to deal w/, he is too lazy to do anything about it until he really hits bottom. He's said all along that he feels like he's got further down to go before he snaps out of it. I'm so afraid he's going to take me w/ him. I was a complete wreck yesterday - I thought seriously about going to a hospital ER cause I wasn't sure if I'd do something stupid (though i do know i really wouldn't when it came right down to it).

He didn't talk to me today about selling the house - was too busy sobbing about all the other stuff. I didn't bring it up either.

Mimi - I honestly don't know what I think. I am ready for a long, hard fight but w/ these recent events and the misery he caused me on Saturday that I am fearing that Plan A won't work so why not just go to B... when i'm in this house i feel so isolated, i'm so far from friends and civilization -- I can't just run down the road and take a cooking class to occupy my time -- I am in the middle of nowhere... so the plan of keeping busy and working on myself doesn't go real well when once i'm home, i'm home -- and he's gone every weekend so he has no idea what i'm doing - is just glad i'm sure that i'm stuck at the house most of the time w/ all the dogs, etc... it makes it much easier for him to know where i am, i'm sure.

Just when I thought I couldn't be more confused? I'm hoping I'll be able to rebuild some strength this week - I'm feeling much better today than yesterday so i guess thats a good sign.... i await your response Mimi.. thank you!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He just keeps saying he can't keep hurting me, shouldn't be near me because all he does is hurt me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's all scripted. The exact same words came out of my FWH's mouth. He wants you to go ahead and "let him go" because he can't "let you go".

Read your last post to me. You are listening to what he is saying. We have been trying to encourage you NOT TO LISTEN TO HIM. HE IS ADDICTED. HE IS IN A FOG. HE IS NOT HIMSELF. What can I do to help you understand this? I believe that you can be the sane one here. You've already done it today. You can keep it up.

I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through. I can really feel your pain. It is devastating. You feel that you can't live without him, I know. But, it will get better for you. Just take it one day at a time.

Does it help to think about not letting her win, being victorious over her. He surely isn't letting her know how conflicted he is.

Listen to me. Read my post again. You probably will need to do PLAN B. Just not yet....

Can you go jogging or for a walk with your dogs? How about working in the yard, planting some flowers. I found that being close to nature, living things, helped me. How about you going away on a trip yourself? I agree don't just stay stuck there. Do something that you have always wanted to do but didn't because he stopped you.
People on here used to tell me to enjoy the time alone because you won't ever be alone again. They were right. Try to get something out of the time alone. How about journaling about all of this.

Hang in there. I'll be checking on you.

Hey, here's a thread you should check out...

reverse babble

J