There are almost 200 posts on the Dr. Phil message board...

I loved post #187 written by Bobbie313...

"There but for the grace of God walk I"

Bobbie writes about the broken hearts of the 4 children.... meanwhile, back at the ranch.... Ed wants to go race his car... shallow Hal.

Pep

Octobergirl:

I don't disagree one bit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It's always interesting for me 2 compare my own sitch, presently and with perspective on the past almost 3 years now, and others, even if they're not all that similar. Because, as we all know, there are common themes throughout that we can learn from.

One of the things I was reflecting on 2day is the marked difference between how "prepared" I was 2 separate in July 2002, and how I did with my week away, versus how prepared I was in March 2004, and how I did with my 2 weeks away then.

First time, I was a basket case. Utterly "emotionally fused" 2 my fog-bound W and very reactive 2 every little thing I perceived was going on.

2nd time, I was... ...RELIEVED. Ac2ally spent a very comfy 2 weeks away at a friend's house. Went home 2 visit most evenings, then went 2 my friend's again. I came home when we brokered a deal where my W wouldn't contact OM "for now".

She's talked 2 him again since, but you know? His family is in a shambles, but ours ISN'T, and both my W and I are happier than we have been in a very long time. Healed? Not yet, certainly not the M yet. But moving in that direction.

Yep, mom will need 2 take control of her own fate at some point. She's got 2 get beyond the hurdle of thinking that she does so 2 put her marriage back 2gether. The real reason is simply 2 be intact as a healthy individual, then a mom, then maybe as a W, if that stuff works out.

-ol' 2long

Just wait until next weeks show! I cannot wait to see it. I really do take control of the stage! If you noticed on todays show, when Dr Phil asked me a question, he never gave me the chance to answer and I didn't want to interrupt. BUT not next week. I take over! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can't wait chere! However, tell me about today. Tell me about life AFTER Dr. Phil and how this has changed the situation...or not. If not, what are your plans? And how can we help you?

(((((((((((((((mom)))))))))))

2long,

I wasn't disagreeing either in any way.Just explaining what I said about the <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> blind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

{{Mom}},when is your next show on? I will be watching.

O

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

wow M&D-
tough yet good show. Dad you were honest but looked a little annoyed and maybe mocking the situation. However it could be how uncomfortable you were in that situation. It is very hard to go on National TV and talk about things that personal, that close to the heart. I think you all did a very good job. YOu both looked great too, good job coordinateing (yeah sad I noticed- but hey I am female).

Hang in there. Sorry this has to be so hard.

Too weak to stay
Too weak to leave

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Noodle

ok question are your shows on Dr. Phils *and I mean your literally mom *wink** are they always on thursdays?

I think so...I know it will air next thrusday. Last I looked there were over 600 posts over at DR phil. I wont be reading them...I'm having a hard enough time getting thru these <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

M23B,
Don't read them. Let it go where it does. You HAVE to start letting him LIVE with some of the consequences.... and I finally think I'm ON to you...and what the issue is.

You have the need to FIX this, PROTECT him. There is a profound difference between judging the sin, as opposed to judging the sinner.

Take care of YOU right now. Don't read the posts... concentrate on YOU. Don't let anything written TO d23, or ABOUT d23, reflect on you and your committment to rebuilding your M.

Hugs to you Mom. How is your dad doing ? How is your Mom holding up ? How are YOU holding up ?

JMO, Dad like MOST WS is a scared child ,,sitting around waiting for someone (BS or OP) to make the desions for them ...

If the BS doesn't make a desion they are told get a backbone blah blah blah ,,,,

OP well they are off the hook cause the WS is the one who had the vows and the family blah blah blah ........

ALL is complete********!

Just becasue a BS makes no chioce and leaves this in the WS hands does not make them a doormat or weak or anything ....

why through them out if its not what you want ? why go to PLAN B if its not what you want ???

BS should just live there life forward and ignore this till the WS makes the desion and in that time if the BS has moved on OH WELL the THE WS is ****out of luck ,,, should have moved faster !


Don't know if I am gotting my opinion across right in words ...

What I see in this and most cases is a "confused " WS is an EXCUSE not to make desions ....

THEY will go in the direction of the person who makes the desion for them ..

IF BS filed for D then the WS throughs their hands up and says ok I will be with OP cause YOU tossed me nothing I can do ....

If OP says take a hike you aren't chooseing me fast enough and stops CONTACT then they will settle for BS ect....


They need (ws) to own this and make a desion on there OWN !

AND FOG only goes so far JMHO ... after awhile its an excuse like everything else !

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 3isacrowd:
<strong> JMO, Dad like MOST WS is a scared child ,,sitting around waiting for someone (BS or OP) to make the desions for them ...

If the BS doesn't make a desion they are told get a backbone blah blah blah ,,,,


Just becasue a BS makes no chioce and leaves this in the WS hands does not make them a doormat or weak or anything ....

why through them out if its not what you want ? why go to PLAN B if its not what you want ???

BS should just live there life forward and ignore this till the WS makes the desion and in that time if the BS has moved on OH WELL the THE WS is $hit out of luck ,,, should have moved faster !


THEY will go in the direction of the person who makes the desion for them ..

IF BS filed for D then the WS throughs their hands up and says ok I will be with OP cause YOU tossed me nothing I can do ....


</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting opinion. So just so I understand you, the BS in this situation should sit Idly by untill the WS makes a "decision". Well, I can't say that that thinking would be any suprise on this board. Your opinion is interesting. Sounds just like MOM is following it to a "t". Hopefully the DAD2b can make the decision to save the family....right?

MOM, My tape didn't work! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But orderd one today. I did read on the site about your story. I am glad Dr. Phil is doing the show on this subject. Reading the post on his site noticed that its far more wide spread than I thought. We are not alone!!! Scary huh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I just wanted to say, thanks for putting US out there! You are a beautiful, brave, loving person! I will keep you and yours in my prayers and let us know when the next show is. Good luck.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Sitting IDLY BY ,,, thats not quit what I am saying ,,, (sorry my head works one way and getting on paper sometimes gets screwed)

I a sense I am saying live life around them ,,does that make any sense ...???

Do what you want , go where you want to ,take care of your children ect... REMOVE yourself from giving them altimatoms (spelling bad)

I am not saying that the BS does not need to make choices ,,, especialy in this area (prg OW)

If the BS has laid it on the line what they want and are willing to do the work then why should they be untrue to themself ? BY doing something they do not want ...LIKE fileing for D (example)

With in us all we know what we can and can not tolerate ,,, so that is how we should proceed ..

one BS's strength is not anothers weakness , its just different people in different situations ...

make any more sense ?

And lemon where you being sarcastic?LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 3isacrowd:
<strong> Sitting IDLY BY ,,, thats not quit what I am saying ,,, (sorry my head works one way and getting on paper sometimes gets screwed)

I a sense I am saying live life around them ,,does that make any sense ...???

Do what you want , go where you want to ,take care of your children ect... REMOVE yourself from giving them altimatoms (spelling bad)

I am not saying that the BS does not need to make choices ,,, especialy in this area (prg OW)

If the BS has laid it on the line what they want and are willing to do the work then why should they be untrue to themself ? BY doing something they do not want ...LIKE fileing for D (example)

With in us all we know what we can and can not tolerate ,,, so that is how we should proceed ..

one BS's strength is not anothers weakness , its just different people in different situations ...

make any more sense ?

And lemon where you being sarcastic?LOL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I wasn't being sarcastic per se, just trying out a new posting style, because my "tough love hammer em' style" is too abrasive and gets me in too much trouble on here. I am trying a new "kill-em with kindness" style. Perhaps this won't get me in so much trouble with the board regulars here. I understand the point you were trying to get accross with your opinion. I respectfully disagree, but that is ok. Thanks for the post.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From 3's a crowd:
If the BS doesn't make a desion they are told get a backbone blah blah blah ,,,,

OP well they are off the hook cause the WS is the one who had the vows and the family blah blah blah ........

ALL is complete BULLCRAP !

Just becasue a BS makes no chioce and leaves this in the WS hands does not make them a doormat or weak or anything ....

why through them out if its not what you want ? why go to PLAN B if its not what you want ???

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, first off to get them to END the A, .....which IS what the BS wants.

It's so true that Plan A's rarely work with "cake eaters" / fence sitters.
All it does is play into the exact Game they WANT to continue playing.

Unfortunately, They must be forced into a decision...OR one won't come. (AT least not willingly).

Mulan's post on the Other thread summed it up very well:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From Mulan:
Guys -- come one. Dad is NOT undecided. He plainly stated on the Dr. Phil show that what he wants is both his wife AND his girlfriend. His every action backs this up. And since both women are tolerating this arrangement, that's exactly what he's got.

Sitting around and waiting for "Dad" to "decide" would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic. He has ALREADY decided. He wants two women and that's what he's got -- and he'll put up with anything to keep this arrangement.

Expecting Dad to "decide" between his wife and his girlfriend is like expecting a spoiled child to "decide" between a PlayStation and an Xbox. Each one plays different games. He wants both. And unless and until somebody makes the decision for him, he will insist on keeping both.

Mom -- please, please, take your power back. As Dr. Phil said, "Why is this choice HIS to make???" Nothing will change here until a rational adult makes the decision for the very spoiled, arrogant child masquerading as your husband.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LMAO!!!!!!
Lemon,,, I found your post just now to be well you see FUNNY as all HE!!....


JMO again if ya don't mind ,,, no one should CHANGE there style for anyone ,,, If you tough and like hammering nails then so be it ,,,

Ya know there are issues that each one of us speack our minds to in our own way ,, after awhile we get to know the others "STYLES" m=not sayong we have to respond to one another on it but except the other ..

SO I will tell ya your NEW style ,, does not fit ya buddy ! LOL

And its not about agreeing or disagreeing ...

Its about open minded converation .

HAve a nice day !

Lemmonman, I see you struggling with these MB concepts and I do understand. They do seem ludicrous. Personally I think Plan A and Plan B are very strategic plans. After d-day we BSs are dealing with an incredibly fogged out WS. We BSs are in a deep trauma stage. I was always a person who KNEW that if my H ever had an A he would be "outta here", pronto! Well here I am, 9 months past d-day, still with this H of mine.
Frankly if I hadn't have found this site I doubt we'd still be together. It gave me the tools and the support to deal with this hell.

I think my H was like D2 in the sense that when he began the truth-telling about the A he thought I would throw him out. As 3 said, he wouldn't have had to choose because I would have done it for him. But surprise, surprise, I didn't dump him. I am sure that really thwarted our little OW's plans. In fact, mixed in with my grief, I showed him tremendous love. Wow, did that take him by surprise! Suddenly he sees me through the fog, and as IN-LOVE as he is with OW, he is wondering if being with her is the right choice. He has told me he did not expect the reaction that I had.

I was no wimp. I'm pretty sure I could not have Plan Bed. His OW worked for him and I told him after I found out about the EA part that she was gone or he was gone. He tried to wiggle out of that ultimatum, but he knew I was serious. For me that worked.

I don't know if that helps you at all. Like you, I can't stand it when I start feeing like the BS is being a doormat. But I have seen very strong BSs have to Plan B, and the WS becomes the FWS. And the M and family unit survives. Take care! CV

M23B,

I just wanted to say that I thought you were very courageous to bring your story to the national viewing audience. I have also noted that their are so many people going through this very same situation. I applaud you for the strength to try and save your marriage.

I posted my thoughts on the preg/child board and look to hear from you.

I know that each of us feels differently about this situation because each of us are at a different point in our lives. In my case my H is one of the men described by Mulan. He is a cake eater/ fence sitter so I decided to file/D and move on with my life. He is now begging to come and don't get me wrong I don't want him to beg me I just know what I can live with and what I can not. He will not give up OW/OC and I choose not to live with them in my daily life.

So the decision I think should be up to the BS, not they WS. All cases are different so you must follow your heart and what's right for your family. I do recall however your H saying that he was undecided and obviously so because he keeps going back to her/OW. How do you cope with that knowing that he is still seeing her as much as two weeks ago.

I think or have come to realize in my own situation (not yours) that my H would continue to do whatever I allowed him to do. If I allowed him to fence sit then he would and now I think the fear of me moving has frightened him, yet it has not changed his ways.

Good luck to you and I'll be watching and looking forward to seeing your post.


JT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CV55:
<strong> Lemmonman, I see you struggling with these MB concepts and I do understand. They do seem ludicrous. Personally I think Plan A and Plan B are very strategic plans. After d-day we BSs are dealing with an incredibly fogged out WS. We BSs are in a deep trauma stage. I was always a person who KNEW that if my H ever had an A he would be "outta here", pronto! Well here I am, 9 months past d-day, still with this H of mine.
Frankly if I hadn't have found this site I doubt we'd still be together. It gave me the tools and the support to deal with this hell.

I think my H was like D2 in the sense that when he began the truth-telling about the A he thought I would throw him out. As 3 said, he wouldn't have had to choose because I would have done it for him. But surprise, surprise, I didn't dump him. I am sure that really thwarted our little OW's plans. In fact, mixed in with my grief, I showed him tremendous love. Wow, did that take him by surprise! Suddenly he sees me through the fog, and as IN-LOVE as he is with OW, he is wondering if being with her is the right choice. He has told me he did not expect the reaction that I had.

I was no wimp. I'm pretty sure I could not have Plan Bed. His OW worked for him and I told him after I found out about the EA part that she was gone or he was gone. He tried to wiggle out of that ultimatum, but he knew I was serious. For me that worked.

I don't know if that helps you at all. Like you, I can't stand it when I start feeing like the BS is being a doormat. But I have seen very strong BSs have to Plan B, and the WS becomes the FWS. And the M and family unit survives. Take care! CV </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the post. I am very happy that you were able to save your "unit". I truly am. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think people have a tremendously wrong impression of me (in that I am anti-marriage and am pro-divorce). Perhaps my posting style has caused that--if that is the case, then I only have myself to blame. I am not anti-marriage. I am however anti-doormat, anti-insanity behavior (i.e. doing the same things and expecting different results), anti- "weak and needy" behavior. Perhaps this is something that I will never get. I feel a LARGE LARGE majority of people on here are guilty of doormat, self degrading, self dehumamizing behavior. They will tolerate MULTIPLE lies, deceit, and betryals for their waywrads spouses conituing to stay in the marriage. What I see as clear doormat behavior, others see as "loving, non-LB, Plan A, marriage building" behavior. I am getting better (albeit slowly) and not flying off the handle and making judgements about people with this. I am realizing that people are going to do what they "want" to or "need" to do regardless of what I say. I think I get called out a lot on here becasue I do question a lot of the behaviors and principles on this site. It is unnerving to some people. They don't want to be questioned on somehting that want to do. I think I am going to try a new "loving" style on here, perhaps this will lead to less callouts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

CV55- Thank you for your post.